Loyal
One of the more controversial passages in the Bible...
Rom 9:10; And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11; for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
Rom 9:12; it was said to her, "THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER."
Rom 9:13; Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."
Rom 9:14; What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!
Rom 9:15; For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
Rom 9:16; So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
Rom 9:17; For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."
Rom 9:18; So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
Rom 9:19; You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"
Rom 9:20; On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?
Rom 9:21; Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?
Rom 9:22; What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?
"for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad" In this particular case it seems God already either knew what was going to happen,
or caused certain things to happen.
"What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there?" - Yet this is exactly what some people are teaching.
"Rom 9:13; Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED." - This is a quote of Malachi 1:3; (My Bible capitalizes OT quotes).
Hated... that's a strong word, What is the actual word here?
miseō
mis-eh'-o
From a primary word μῖσος misos (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension to love less: - hate (-ful).
Well that's the Greek. How about the Hebrew word in Malachi?
שָׂנֵא
śânê'
saw-nay'
A primitive root; to hate (personally): - enemy, foe, (be) hate (-ful, -r), odious, X utterly.
To detest... to utterly hate. Why would God who "is love" say this?
This whole omnipotence/predestination thing seems to be confusing to many people. Just because God "knows" what is going to happen...
Doesn't mean that He is the one "making it happen".
God may know who who is.. and who isn't going to be saved. He may even know this before he created humankind.
But He created us anyway... all of us... even those who aren't going to be saved.
The thing is... He gives everyone a chance. Everyone has to make a choice. He doesn't make the choice for you.
You have to make it. You alone... no one else can make it for you. He may "draw you"... He may even "call you".
He knocks on your door. But in the end it's your choice to open the door or not. In the end many are called... but FEW are chosen.
People tend to add or take away words that aren't actually in the Bible... for example...
Rom 8:29; For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
People turn these two sentences around a say... He predestined those who He foreknew... But that ISN'T what this verse says.
It says He foreknew.... He didn't make the decision for them... He just knew what decision they were going to make.
Then secondly... it says He predestined.... predestined what? For them to make the decision? NO, that isn't what it says here.
It says they were predestined to be conformed into "the image of His Son". (Jesus).
He doesn't make the decision for them... but once they make the decision... it's certain that you will eventually become like Jesus (conformed to His image).
Rom 9:10; And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11; for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
Rom 9:12; it was said to her, "THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER."
Rom 9:13; Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."
Rom 9:14; What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!
Rom 9:15; For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
Rom 9:16; So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
Rom 9:17; For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."
Rom 9:18; So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
Rom 9:19; You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"
Rom 9:20; On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?
Rom 9:21; Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?
Rom 9:22; What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?
"for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad" In this particular case it seems God already either knew what was going to happen,
or caused certain things to happen.
"What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there?" - Yet this is exactly what some people are teaching.
"Rom 9:13; Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED." - This is a quote of Malachi 1:3; (My Bible capitalizes OT quotes).
Hated... that's a strong word, What is the actual word here?
miseō
mis-eh'-o
From a primary word μῖσος misos (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension to love less: - hate (-ful).
Well that's the Greek. How about the Hebrew word in Malachi?
שָׂנֵא
śânê'
saw-nay'
A primitive root; to hate (personally): - enemy, foe, (be) hate (-ful, -r), odious, X utterly.
To detest... to utterly hate. Why would God who "is love" say this?
This whole omnipotence/predestination thing seems to be confusing to many people. Just because God "knows" what is going to happen...
Doesn't mean that He is the one "making it happen".
God may know who who is.. and who isn't going to be saved. He may even know this before he created humankind.
But He created us anyway... all of us... even those who aren't going to be saved.
The thing is... He gives everyone a chance. Everyone has to make a choice. He doesn't make the choice for you.
You have to make it. You alone... no one else can make it for you. He may "draw you"... He may even "call you".
He knocks on your door. But in the end it's your choice to open the door or not. In the end many are called... but FEW are chosen.
People tend to add or take away words that aren't actually in the Bible... for example...
Rom 8:29; For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
People turn these two sentences around a say... He predestined those who He foreknew... But that ISN'T what this verse says.
It says He foreknew.... He didn't make the decision for them... He just knew what decision they were going to make.
Then secondly... it says He predestined.... predestined what? For them to make the decision? NO, that isn't what it says here.
It says they were predestined to be conformed into "the image of His Son". (Jesus).
He doesn't make the decision for them... but once they make the decision... it's certain that you will eventually become like Jesus (conformed to His image).
