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Old/New Covenant Discussion

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Loyal
One thing to note here. He never left them or forsook them...

Hebrews 13:5; is actually quoting a couple of verses in Deuteronomy. ( He hath said... " )
Deut 31:6-8; Yet also in Deut 31:16-17; God says He knows they will forsake Him. ( also see Josh 1:5; and Josh 24:20; )
So because they do this... ( Deut 31:17; )

Even though God did not leave them... They did not enter into the promised land with Him.
We also see this in Nehemiah 9:17-19; ..also Nehemiah 9:31; God did not forsake them... but He did not allow
them to enter the promised land with Him.

Just because God is with us... doesn't guarantee that we will enter His rest. There are choices and decisions
we make along the way that affect this.
 
Active

RJ

Even though God did not leave them... They did not enter into the promised land with Him.
We also see this in Nehemiah 9:17-19; ..also Nehemiah 9:31; God did not forsake them... but He did not allow
them to enter the promised land with Him.
We no longer live under the Old Covenant. Because we were not perfect, God made a new and better covenant with us, the New Covenant...the covenant governed by his grace.
 
Loyal
We no longer live under the Old Covenant. Because we were not perfect, God made a new and better covenant with us, the New Covenant...the covenant governed by his grace.
Just curious... does this mean God lied in the old testament? He lies in the old testament, but not in the new testament?
Even though he said he would never leave them? As far as I can tell He never did leave them.
 
Active

RJ

Just curious... does this mean God lied in the old testament? He lies in the old testament, but not in the new testament?
Sorry but, as many scriptures you quote and,knowledge you proclaim, your curiosity is a bit absurd ?! And, a statement that God potentially lies shows lack of understanding or refusal to accept the truth of grace beyond works.
How could God ever lie?....Of course he can't... that would be a sin...really:eek:!
The only lie or sin over this is the one that may be in your heart, not God!
The Old Covenant ( comprised the Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic and Davidic convenants) was replaced by the New Covenant.
Brother, you need to wake up and get the Old Covenant of doing out of your heart and mind and truly embrace not the old law of Moses but the new law of Grace.
In the Old Testament, he may have never left them but he was never INSIDE them. As promised and via the New Covenant, ushered in only after the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, God now lives INSIDE the believer and hence, will never leave from the INSIDE of you. He is a man of his word, he does not lie!
Have you received this promise or do you still refuse it based on your own pride and need to satisfy you own works?
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Moved a couple of postings from an area dedicated for devotions to allow a little more breathing room for a more in depth discussion if desired.
C4E
<><
 
Loyal
We no longer live under the Old Covenant. Because we were not perfect, God made a new and better covenant with us, the New Covenant...the covenant governed by his grace.
Yes, my friend, it is a new and better covenant, but it is not all a one-sided gift. "Much is given and much is required". If we do not try to give as much as we have received (even if we cannot), we are in trouble with God. Remember the man who was give a talent and buried it instead of investing it.
 
Loyal
Sorry but, as many scriptures you quote and,knowledge you proclaim, your curiosity is a bit absurd ?! And, a statement that God potentially lies shows lack of understanding or refusal to accept the truth of grace beyond works.
How could God ever lie?....Of course he can't... that would be a sin...really:eek:!
Indeed, God does not and never has lied, but what God said in the OT is not to be forgotten, but eventually to be completely understood. It does pertain to you and to me and you are effectively, I believe, glossing it over. Try again. Go back and pray for direction.

The only lie or sin over this is the one that may be in your heart, not God!
Remember, brother, that the scripture says in both the OT and the NT that "every man is a liar". That includes you and me insofar as we miss the truth in a measure and in that measure of error teach it as if it were the very words of Jesus.

The Old Covenant ( comprised the Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic and Davidic convenants) was replaced by the New Covenant.
Brother, you need to wake up and get the Old Covenant of doing out of your heart and mind and truly embrace not the old law of Moses but the new law of Grace.
The law given to Moses by God all has meaning for you and for me. You are grabbing the new as if the old were worn out and used up. That is not the case:

For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

"Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for,

See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount." Heb 8:5-6

The pattern seen perfectly in the OT testifies of the NT.

Brother you also need to decrease so that Lord in you will be able to increase. So long as you stand still refusing to admit that growth is needed, you will block the progress of God in you. You must understand the truth of the OT. Jesus preached heavily from it. It was also written by men as they were inspired by God. You cannot fully understand the NT without also understanding its connection to the OT.

There are no absolutely free rides to God. That is not what grace and mercy are for.

In the Old Testament, he may have never left them but he was never INSIDE them. As promised and via the New Covenant, ushered in only after the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, God now lives INSIDE the believer and hence, will never leave from the INSIDE of you. He is a man of his word, he does not lie!
Have you received this promise or do you still refuse it based on your own pride and need to satisfy you own works?
Receiving what promise, my friend? This one:

"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." Acts 1:8

The power to witness is not the power to sit back on our haunches. It is the power to speak the truth even as we are dying to the ways of our flesh. What we can do that people in the OT could not is die to sin, but that death does not come without effort on our part. In the OT they could not do it, but we have been given the power through the Holy Ghost to overcome death itself. It will not be overcome by sitting back and saying, 'I have made, I have made it'. There is work to be done in you and in me. We have been given the tools and we must use them or we will receive the reward of the man who buried his talent. We will receive the reward of the five foolish virgins.

We do have to overcome that is why we have received power. Read the first three chapters of the Book of Revelation where it describes the rewards for overcomers. One of them is the right to "eat of the tree of Life". If we cannot eat of that Tree, we will not Live. If we do not overcome, we will not be allowed to eat of it.

We must overcome. Jesus overcame and paid the price that we could also overcome. The overcoming to be done is in our own hearts...
 
Moderator
Staff Member
You cannot fully understand the NT without also understanding its connection to the OT.
There is work to be done in you and in me.
Amen!

Not to get too involved in this discussion, but I could not help to let you know you are blessed brother and i pray for your continue well being.

Just starting a Bible Study on the Book of Romans shows how tightly woven the OT & NT truly is.

Thank-you for sharing the insight that the Holy Spirit has opened up to you.
YBIC
C4E
<><
 
Active

RJ

Yes, my friend, it is a new and better covenant, but it is not all a one-sided gift. "Much is given and much is required". If we do not try to give as much as we have received (even if we cannot), we are in trouble with God. Remember the man who was give a talent and buried it instead of investing it.
Jeremiah 31:31-34 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband ]”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

  • I see a lot of "I 's"(God) here and no us, you are them
  • If he would require for us to give as much as we receive, as you say, then it would not be grace and a gift, it would be "Quid pro quo" (something for something). He did not say / mean this and if you really believe he did, you have a lot to learn my friend.
  • Your example of the "Talent" has no bearing on this discussion!
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings,

with grace in peace we must love one another even as Christ loved us and gave Himself for us.

Please let us remember that the same error of the old can be made in these times of the new.

Let God be the Judge and us His Servants.

Bless you ....><>
 
Active

RJ

the same error of the old can be made in these times of the new.
To me, that basic error between the two is that God simply is not big enough to do it by himself, by his grace, which he calls a gift and, if it is a gift, it is free! And yes, we are only his servants and he will definitely be the judge in the end...:), not us!
 
Loyal
Jeremiah 31:31-34 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband ]”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

  • I see a lot of "I 's"(God) here and no us, you are them
  • If he would require for us to give as much as we receive, as you say, then it would not be grace and a gift, it would be "Quid pro quo" (something for something). He did not say / mean this and if you really believe he did, you have a lot to learn my friend.
  • Your example of the "Talent" has no bearing on this discussion!
You are correct, my brother there are a lot of "I's", but it is still a covenant rather than a simple no strings attached gift. It is in a sense a lop-side covenant because most of the work has to be done by God. A covenant is an agreement or a compact between two or more parties where each party agreement to certain things.

We are described in the NT as grafted in branches and our grafting in was not done without conditions:

"And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee." Rom 11:17-21

The Tree will endure, but the individual branches that do not produce according to God will be purged from the Tree:

"Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit." John 15:2

Then consider carefully these words penned by the Apostle Paul:

"Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted." I Cor 10:1-6

Notice that all were baptized in the shadows of the water and the Spirit and that all ate of his flesh and drank of his blood, yet many of them displeased God and over overthrown. This is the type and shadow for you and me today. We can travel the way of Caleb and Joshua or we can die in the wilderness along with 600,000 without the women and children. It is only a type shown in them for us to see, but we are in the real thing. If we do not overcome as Jesus overcame, we will not make. We have the power, but we also have the choice.

He writes several more verses in explanation of these things and then this:

"Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted." I Cor 10:12

There are many more NT verses which apply to this situation. We do have promises from God which He will certainly keep in blessing us if we do what He requires of us with the gifts He has given us. Yes, He has given us gifts, but some of the gifts are to be used by us to make us into overcomers. Jesus was an overcomer and in order to please God we also need to be overcomers. The sacrifice of Jesus did not make it an automatic thing. Rather his sacrifice made it a possibility. We must use what we have to overcome all obstacles standing between us and God.

Read and pray carefully on these things my friend.
 
Active

RJ

@amadeus2 , Bless your knowledge and understanding, they are not the same as mine. I pray for your future spiritual growth with the Lord in you!
God Bless
 
Loyal
Just curious... does this mean God lied in the old testament? He lies in the old testament, but not in the new testament?
Even though he said he would never leave them? As far as I can tell He never did leave them.
I find this question hilariously funny! God cannot lie! Every time He opens His mouth and speaks anything, His creative power kicks in and it becomes so. LOL If God said, on a cold rainy day, "Good morning" All his angels would jump to saying "Let's get busy boys! We've only got until noon!"
 

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