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Obedience to the Government

Loyal
There are passages in the Bible that say we should obey our government.

Rom 13:1; Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
Rom 13:2; Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.
Rom 13:3; For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;
Rom 13:4; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
Rom 13:5; Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake.
Rom 13:6; For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.
Rom 13:7; Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

There are scriptures in the Bible, I sometimes wish weren't there. However they are there.
Verse 3 caught my eye here. We shouldn't fear rulers if we are doing good behavior. Yet in this country currently good behavior
(even going to church) is punished. Criminals with violent histories and sexual predators are being set free by the governing authorities.
Rioting and vandalism is being endorsed by these same governing authorities.
Verse 4 says God is an avenger who brings wrath on those who practice evil. I wonder if Marvel comics know God is an Avenger?
Verse 5 says for conscience's sake. Honestly, my conscious often tells me to against these authorities in some cases.

So then the question is, should we always be in subjection to them under every circumstance? Should we just blindly obey?

Dan 3:10; "You, O king, have made a decree that every man who hears the sound of the horn, flute, lyre, trigon, psaltery, and bagpipe and all kinds of music, is to fall down and worship the golden image.
Dan 3:11; "But whoever does not fall down and worship shall be cast into the midst of a furnace of blazing fire.
Dan 3:12; "There are certain Jews whom you have appointed over the administration of the province of Babylon, namely Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego. These men, O king, have disregarded you; they do not serve your gods or worship the golden image which you have set up."
Dan 3:13; Then Nebuchadnezzar in rage and anger gave orders to bring Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego; then these men were brought before the king.

Dan 3:16; Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego replied to the king, "O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to give you an answer concerning this matter.
Dan 3:17; "If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the furnace of blazing fire; and He will deliver us out of your hand, O king.
Dan 3:18; "But even if He does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we are not going to serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up."

God rewarded Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego, and protected them for not obeying this decree. It seems when man's law oppose God's laws
it's OK to disobey them. Some people have forgotten who they are supposed to be loyal to.

Acts 5:26; Then the captain went along with the officers and proceeded to bring them back without violence (for they were afraid of the people, that they might be stoned).
Acts 5:27; When they had brought them, they stood them before the Council. The high priest questioned them,
Acts 5:28; saying, "We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and yet, you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and intend to bring this man's blood upon us."
Acts 5:29; But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men.

When people are purposely trying to stop the church and the gospel, we should be opposing them, just as Peter did.
There has been a lot of talk about vaccines and the mark. I don't know if there is a correlation or not, but I do know one day the world authority will
want us to bow down and worship him.

Rev 13:12; He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed.
Rev 13:14; And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who *had the wound of the sword and has come to life.

I can tell you right now, this is one government decree I will not obey. The Bible seems to say some will be beheaded for resisting this. Are you willing to do this?
The Bible says taking the mark is an unforgivable sin, once you take it, your fate is sealed.

Rev 19:16; And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."
Rev 19:17; Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, "Come, assemble for the great supper of God,
Rev 19:18; so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great."
Rev 19:19; And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
Rev 19:20; And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.

It says one day the kings of earth and their armies will make war against "Him who sat on the horse" (The King of Kings, and Lord of Lords).
Are you going to obey the earthly kings on that day?

There are of course dozens of places in the Bible where people disobeyed the governing rulers. In fact the story of Moses and Pharaoh is really about the
Jews rebelling against Egyptian authority. In the book of Esther we see the same.

Est 3:1; After these events King Ahasuerus promoted Haman, the son of Hammedatha the Agagite, and advanced him and established his authority over all the princes who were with him.
Est 3:2; All the king's servants who were at the king's gate bowed down and paid homage to Haman; for so the king had commanded concerning him. But Mordecai neither bowed down nor paid homage.
Est 3:3; Then the king's servants who were at the king's gate said to Mordecai, "Why are you transgressing the king's command?"

So yes, we should obey governing authorities, but not to point we transgress against God's laws and rules.
 
Loyal
Here is the US we have several political parties. The main two are the democrats and republicans.
Neither party is perfect, and there is certainly some corruption on both sides.

But one party openly endorses and encourages...
Pedophelia, and teaching infants about sex.
Legalizing prostitution, and child pornography.
Gay, Lesbian and bi-sexual lifestyles.
Non-binary sexual orientation.
Violence and Rioting.
Recreational mind altering drugs.
Many of them want to defund the police and openly promote anarchism. (although they themselves have several bodyguards)
Removing any Christian references from money "In God we trust", our Pledge of Allegiance "one nation Under God" and our fallen soldiers (crosses on tombstone markers).
Abortion.
... many of these people have had ties and relationships to Epstein and other known sex-traffickers.
The majority of them want to close any Christian institutions.

In just the past week there have been about a dozen of these governors and mayors breaking their own rules about masks and social distancing.
In this country we can vote. There have been literally hundreds of voting fraud cases over the last 50 years or so. Be that as it may, I have to vote with my conscious.

There is a mindset about being independent vs being controlled by the governments every whim.
Taking away the 2nd amendment and guns.
Taking away our ability to chose what kind of education we want and what curriculum is taught.
Taking away our livelihood and the ability to support ourselves. Making us more and more dependent on the government so they can control us.
Taking away freedom of religion. (especially Christianity)
Some people are OK with all this. But they don't know what they are really giving up.
 
Loyal
I am so glad you posted this, I had this exact topic on my mind to post today, but really have not had much time to put it down, cant wait to read it
 
Loyal
yes great post, that is why we must be praying for the gift of discerment, it easy to see who have it and who does not.

If you look at what happened when the virus first hit, all the churches closed immeditely, and a lot of churches are still closed, yet some are openly standing up against these tyrant gonvenors and opening. These times we are really going to be tested to see just worthy we are for the kingdom.
 
Loyal
Yes, vote your conscious, if your mind is on serving the Lord. Encourage others to do so, to keep the Lord's wrath at bay in your lands.... then dont vote for any democrat on the federal or state level. City levels may not be quite as corrupted in some cities.... but on the state and federal levels there is a war going on... a war for the souls of men. It is better to see what all they stand for, even if they are corrupt in some ways, focus on the morals they promote and typically forward when in power. If you hate someone because of what they may or may not have done in their personal life, focus on what they have already promoted on a national scale moral wise, and what they continue to promote. If you vote someone in, who promotes the bad things BAC spoke of, then you are purposely voting in evil rulers, not true representatives of the things the Lord wants in the lands that He will either bless or curse based upon those choices. I personally voted for Ben Carson in 2016, because I thought he was the best candidate morality wise. But apparently Trump, who was not really a person that I would call a possible friend, was a much better warrior to fight for the american people who hate the evils that have become so prevalent these days. God chose him because he was a rod that would not bow down to the evil and corruption that pervades this land, wanting to rule it and hand that rulership over to the servants of satan. God knew best, hopefully you all do as well. Even if you cant bring yourself to vote for Trump, please dont vote democratic on the federal and state levels. I say this with the leading of the Holy Spirit.
 
Active
You’ve simplified things BAC, people don’t obey lawless governments simply because they’ve forgotten their loyalty to God. At the center of this is fear of men, lack of faith in God and an attitude of self preservation rather than sacrifice. Jesus said we are to count the cost of being a disciple, to deny ourselves and take up our crosses. This is nothing short of sacrificing self to follow Christ. But the modern era lying preachers who learned from the apostate Roman Catholic Church under Constantine don’t teach this to the congregations.

In an ideal world we should obey our governments because our rulers obey God. But this world’s god is satan and we will therefore be driven to make radical choices of either obeying God or obeying men who are in fact under the inspiration of the devil. A religious person, even if he proclaims to be a Christian, will never overcome his fear of men and his self preservation if he never started out with the attitude of sacrifice as mentioned by Jesus.

The congregations in the church pews have been indoctrinated into a lifestyle of indulgence and self seeking for decades, that is why we see this desperate attempt to compromise the faith in order to be at peace with the governments.
 
Active
At the center of this is fear of men, lack of faith in God and an attitude of self preservation rather than sacrifice.

That is the main point, Very well said.

I hear Christians speaking of we need to obey the government, and obviously as Christians we are a people
who should be accustomed to submission, so clearly we follow the government, generally speaking.

However, many use that banner of "We need to obey the government" because of exacting what you are saying,
fear and lack of faith.

For me it is not so much about what the person is saying (We need to obey the government vs disobey the government) but
rather where their heart is. Are they speaking from a heart of faith or fear.

I agree with your statement 100%.

Lord have mercy on us, please.
 
Active
That is the main point, Very well said.

I hear Christians speaking of we need to obey the government, and obviously as Christians we are a people
who should be accustomed to submission, so clearly we follow the government, generally speaking.

However, many use that banner of "We need to obey the government" because of exacting what you are saying,
fear and lack of faith.

For me it is not so much about what the person is saying (We need to obey the government vs disobey the government) but
rather where their heart is. Are they speaking from a heart of faith or fear.

I agree with your statement 100%.

Lord have mercy on us, please.
In another thread on this very forums, the News section in particular, I am accused of twisting the Scriptures because I disagree that we are to obey governments even if it means we disobey God. It is evident that the antichrist spirit is working in the hearts of these people already, the sons of disobedience as marked out by Scriptures. Yes, Lord have mercy on those who are still striving to keep faith in Him.
 
Active
We are supposedly Christian, and as such are called to be obedient to the written word of God. It seems however, that many are more intent on judging which of the worldly authorities are more good or more evil than the other, and accordingly which should be followed. The knowledge of good and evil is the original sin that sent the world to hell in the first place and set man against each other, much like it is in this conversation. We are aliens in this world and are called to obey the written word, we are called to come out from among them. I'm still trying to find some who have.
 
Member
Obedience to government? Do we obey a government that replaces God Almighty with itself? Surely not!

Let’s begin, Shall we.

God created human beings. True.
God created free will. True.
God’s greatest command, is love. True.

Therefore, each individual human being God created in the flesh is entitled to an existence on earth free from use of force being applied and/or initiated against him or her. That’s abstract so what is the implementation of the use force? Being killed. Your money and your property confiscated and stolen. Being lied to. Being cheated. Being coerced and bullied. Living in fear and in the presence of intimidation. You are entitled to exercise your freewill, so long as your freewill doesn’t initiate the use force against another human being. That means you love your fellow human being. By not initiating the use of force you demonstrate love for your fellow human beings thus executing God’s greatest commandant.

So, let’s make an assumption or let’s allege that God created government or perhaps allows government to exist. If God grants humankind freewill, then government must also grant freewill to the people it governs. If God entitles each human being to live without fear from the use of force being applied to him or her, then government must also do the same without ever invoking fear, intimidation, coercion and many other evil acts as outlined in the ten commandants against any single individual it governs.

Government is a collective. The problem is, a collective really doesn’t exist because it merely a composition of single individuals acting mutually for an end result.

Let’s move on to the next concept.

Spiritual philosophy is equal to political philosophy and vice versa. Its one in the same. It’s the same because it’s how you as an individual treat another individual human being. Do you love your fellow human being? Do you steal from him or her? Do you lie to her or her? Do you cheat him or her? Do you coerce, bully and intimidate him or her? Do you want to kill him or her?

The government has a monopoly on the use of force. The government is justified in using force, in the event an individual under its governance has initiated the use force against another human being. Otherwise, the government never initiates the use of force.

So, it begs the question. Does government love the human beings under its stewardship? No, it doesn’t. Government initiates the use force against its citizens every single day it exists. Therefore, a government like that is not legitimate and people are free to disregard it.

Next concept.

Satan owns the earth. Satan own the kingdoms and principalities on the earth. The dastardly being runs amok without check and balances devouring, stealing, killing and destroying via any implementation it can use to its advantage. Oh, what advantage does government provide, especially when the dastardly being owns it and government is apart of its network of evil. Think of all political systems and economic systems that sacrificed the individual on the satanic collective alter of altruism. Why, its for the greater good you know. You must be sacrificed!

It begs the question: Should you as Christian be bullied, intimidated, and be forced to comply with unholy kingdom, Satan owns? Remember what Satan owns. He offered Jesus quite a bit earthly power after 40 days of fasting.

Next concept:

Does a Godly government steal the 2020 election in broad daylight with hubris?
I needn’t say more. The answer is clear. Government is not of God. Government is Satan’s play toy for purpose of killing, stealing and destroying.

Taxes? Oh, render to what is Cesar’s? Who gets to decide that? Who gets to initiate the use of force against my freewill and confiscate my wealth? The answer is I decide. I decide what, belongs to the Cesar. It’s my money and the Cesar has no right to initiate the use force and take it.

Government is Satan’s agent of evil.

A liberation from government is a liberation from Satan, but that’s only possible with Jesus Christ and your state of existence changing from the flesh into its natural state in eternity with God.

I rest my case.
 
Active
There are passages in the Bible that say we should obey our government.

Rom 13:1; Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
Rom 13:2; Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.
Rom 13:3; For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;
Rom 13:4; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
Rom 13:5; Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake.
Rom 13:6; For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.
Rom 13:7; Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

There are scriptures in the Bible, I sometimes wish weren't there. However they are there.
Verse 3 caught my eye here. We shouldn't fear rulers if we are doing good behavior. Yet in this country currently good behavior
(even going to church) is punished. Criminals with violent histories and sexual predators are being set free by the governing authorities.
Rioting and vandalism is being endorsed by these same governing authorities.
Verse 4 says God is an avenger who brings wrath on those who practice evil. I wonder if Marvel comics know God is an Avenger?
Verse 5 says for conscience's sake. Honestly, my conscious often tells me to against these authorities in some cases.

So then the question is, should we always be in subjection to them under every circumstance? Should we just blindly obey?

Dan 3:10; "You, O king, have made a decree that every man who hears the sound of the horn, flute, lyre, trigon, psaltery, and bagpipe and all kinds of music, is to fall down and worship the golden image.
Dan 3:11; "But whoever does not fall down and worship shall be cast into the midst of a furnace of blazing fire.
Dan 3:12; "There are certain Jews whom you have appointed over the administration of the province of Babylon, namely Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego. These men, O king, have disregarded you; they do not serve your gods or worship the golden image which you have set up."
Dan 3:13; Then Nebuchadnezzar in rage and anger gave orders to bring Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego; then these men were brought before the king.

Dan 3:16; Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego replied to the king, "O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to give you an answer concerning this matter.
Dan 3:17; "If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the furnace of blazing fire; and He will deliver us out of your hand, O king.
Dan 3:18; "But even if He does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we are not going to serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up."

God rewarded Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego, and protected them for not obeying this decree. It seems when man's law oppose God's laws
it's OK to disobey them. Some people have forgotten who they are supposed to be loyal to.

Acts 5:26; Then the captain went along with the officers and proceeded to bring them back without violence (for they were afraid of the people, that they might be stoned).
Acts 5:27; When they had brought them, they stood them before the Council. The high priest questioned them,
Acts 5:28; saying, "We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and yet, you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and intend to bring this man's blood upon us."
Acts 5:29; But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men.

When people are purposely trying to stop the church and the gospel, we should be opposing them, just as Peter did.
There has been a lot of talk about vaccines and the mark. I don't know if there is a correlation or not, but I do know one day the world authority will
want us to bow down and worship him.

Rev 13:12; He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed.
Rev 13:14; And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who *had the wound of the sword and has come to life.

I can tell you right now, this is one government decree I will not obey. The Bible seems to say some will be beheaded for resisting this. Are you willing to do this?
The Bible says taking the mark is an unforgivable sin, once you take it, your fate is sealed.

Rev 19:16; And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."
Rev 19:17; Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, "Come, assemble for the great supper of God,
Rev 19:18; so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great."
Rev 19:19; And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
Rev 19:20; And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.

It says one day the kings of earth and their armies will make war against "Him who sat on the horse" (The King of Kings, and Lord of Lords).
Are you going to obey the earthly kings on that day?

There are of course dozens of places in the Bible where people disobeyed the governing rulers. In fact the story of Moses and Pharaoh is really about the
Jews rebelling against Egyptian authority. In the book of Esther we see the same.

Est 3:1; After these events King Ahasuerus promoted Haman, the son of Hammedatha the Agagite, and advanced him and established his authority over all the princes who were with him.
Est 3:2; All the king's servants who were at the king's gate bowed down and paid homage to Haman; for so the king had commanded concerning him. But Mordecai neither bowed down nor paid homage.
Est 3:3; Then the king's servants who were at the king's gate said to Mordecai, "Why are you transgressing the king's command?"

So yes, we should obey governing authorities, but not to point we transgress against God's laws and rules.
As long as the Government is not trying to supercede Gods Laws , then follow the goverment .

Because when the Mark of the Beast comes , will you then do as the government wants , or what God demands
 
Active
Obedience to government? Do we obey a government that replaces God Almighty with itself? Surely not!

Let’s begin, Shall we.

God created human beings. True.
God created free will. True.
God’s greatest command, is love. True.

Therefore, each individual human being God created in the flesh is entitled to an existence on earth free from use of force being applied and/or initiated against him or her. That’s abstract so what is the implementation of the use force? Being killed. Your money and your property confiscated and stolen. Being lied to. Being cheated. Being coerced and bullied. Living in fear and in the presence of intimidation. You are entitled to exercise your freewill, so long as your freewill doesn’t initiate the use force against another human being. That means you love your fellow human being. By not initiating the use of force you demonstrate love for your fellow human beings thus executing God’s greatest commandant.

So, let’s make an assumption or let’s allege that God created government or perhaps allows government to exist. If God grants humankind freewill, then government must also grant freewill to the people it governs. If God entitles each human being to live without fear from the use of force being applied to him or her, then government must also do the same without ever invoking fear, intimidation, coercion and many other evil acts as outlined in the ten commandants against any single individual it governs.

Government is a collective. The problem is, a collective really doesn’t exist because it merely a composition of single individuals acting mutually for an end result.

Let’s move on to the next concept.

Spiritual philosophy is equal to political philosophy and vice versa. Its one in the same. It’s the same because it’s how you as an individual treat another individual human being. Do you love your fellow human being? Do you steal from him or her? Do you lie to her or her? Do you cheat him or her? Do you coerce, bully and intimidate him or her? Do you want to kill him or her?

The government has a monopoly on the use of force. The government is justified in using force, in the event an individual under its governance has initiated the use force against another human being. Otherwise, the government never initiates the use of force.

So, it begs the question. Does government love the human beings under its stewardship? No, it doesn’t. Government initiates the use force against its citizens every single day it exists. Therefore, a government like that is not legitimate and people are free to disregard it.

Next concept.

Satan owns the earth. Satan own the kingdoms and principalities on the earth. The dastardly being runs amok without check and balances devouring, stealing, killing and destroying via any implementation it can use to its advantage. Oh, what advantage does government provide, especially when the dastardly being owns it and government is apart of its network of evil. Think of all political systems and economic systems that sacrificed the individual on the satanic collective alter of altruism. Why, its for the greater good you know. You must be sacrificed!

It begs the question: Should you as Christian be bullied, intimidated, and be forced to comply with unholy kingdom, Satan owns? Remember what Satan owns. He offered Jesus quite a bit earthly power after 40 days of fasting.

Next concept:

Does a Godly government steal the 2020 election in broad daylight with hubris?
I needn’t say more. The answer is clear. Government is not of God. Government is Satan’s play toy for purpose of killing, stealing and destroying.

Taxes? Oh, render to what is Cesar’s? Who gets to decide that? Who gets to initiate the use of force against my freewill and confiscate my wealth? The answer is I decide. I decide what, belongs to the Cesar. It’s my money and the Cesar has no right to initiate the use force and take it.

Government is Satan’s agent of evil.

A liberation from government is a liberation from Satan, but that’s only possible with Jesus Christ and your state of existence changing from the flesh into its natural state in eternity with God.

I rest my case.
Satan may control some people and nations . But he certainly does not own it .
Satan was given power to decieve and to test . But he still fears God
 
Loyal
Obedience to government? Do we obey a government that replaces God Almighty with itself? Surely not!

Let’s begin, Shall we.

God created human beings. True.
God created free will. True.
God’s greatest command, is love. True.

Therefore, each individual human being God created in the flesh is entitled to an existence on earth free from use of force being applied and/or initiated against him or her. That’s abstract so what is the implementation of the use force? Being killed. Your money and your property confiscated and stolen. Being lied to. Being cheated. Being coerced and bullied. Living in fear and in the presence of intimidation. You are entitled to exercise your freewill, so long as your freewill doesn’t initiate the use force against another human being. That means you love your fellow human being. By not initiating the use of force you demonstrate love for your fellow human beings thus executing God’s greatest commandant.

So, let’s make an assumption or let’s allege that God created government or perhaps allows government to exist. If God grants humankind freewill, then government must also grant freewill to the people it governs. If God entitles each human being to live without fear from the use of force being applied to him or her, then government must also do the same without ever invoking fear, intimidation, coercion and many other evil acts as outlined in the ten commandants against any single individual it governs.

Government is a collective. The problem is, a collective really doesn’t exist because it merely a composition of single individuals acting mutually for an end result.

Let’s move on to the next concept.

Spiritual philosophy is equal to political philosophy and vice versa. Its one in the same. It’s the same because it’s how you as an individual treat another individual human being. Do you love your fellow human being? Do you steal from him or her? Do you lie to her or her? Do you cheat him or her? Do you coerce, bully and intimidate him or her? Do you want to kill him or her?

The government has a monopoly on the use of force. The government is justified in using force, in the event an individual under its governance has initiated the use force against another human being. Otherwise, the government never initiates the use of force.

So, it begs the question. Does government love the human beings under its stewardship? No, it doesn’t. Government initiates the use force against its citizens every single day it exists. Therefore, a government like that is not legitimate and people are free to disregard it.

Next concept.

Satan owns the earth. Satan own the kingdoms and principalities on the earth. The dastardly being runs amok without check and balances devouring, stealing, killing and destroying via any implementation it can use to its advantage. Oh, what advantage does government provide, especially when the dastardly being owns it and government is apart of its network of evil. Think of all political systems and economic systems that sacrificed the individual on the satanic collective alter of altruism. Why, its for the greater good you know. You must be sacrificed!

It begs the question: Should you as Christian be bullied, intimidated, and be forced to comply with unholy kingdom, Satan owns? Remember what Satan owns. He offered Jesus quite a bit earthly power after 40 days of fasting.

Next concept:

Does a Godly government steal the 2020 election in broad daylight with hubris?
I needn’t say more. The answer is clear. Government is not of God. Government is Satan’s play toy for purpose of killing, stealing and destroying.

Taxes? Oh, render to what is Cesar’s? Who gets to decide that? Who gets to initiate the use of force against my freewill and confiscate my wealth? The answer is I decide. I decide what, belongs to the Cesar. It’s my money and the Cesar has no right to initiate the use force and take it.

Government is Satan’s agent of evil.

A liberation from government is a liberation from Satan, but that’s only possible with Jesus Christ and your state of existence changing from the flesh into its natural state in eternity with God.

I rest my case.
Have you any experience of living in a country with no government, or a fatally weakened government? I have, and it was a genuinely frightening experience.
 
Active
Is it just me or is this pretty simple for the Christian?

(1)My understanding is submit to the government as unto the Lord.
(2)When the government clearly goes against God, disobey the government.

Isn't that it?

Submitting to government looks like:

(1a) When the children of Egypt were slaves they could have revolted but they waited on God and stayed in bondage (God's plan was Moses not a revolt)

(1b) Daniel stayed submitted to the King of Babylon.

(1c) Jesus encouraged the Jews to pay taxes to their oppressive Roman
leader.

Disobeying the government looks like:
(2a) When the 3 Hebrew boys refused to worship a statue and were thrown into the fiery furnace.

(2b) When Paul refused to obey the governing authorities who told him to stop preaching Christ.



Obviously this requires being humble, led by the Spirit, and seeking to do God's WILL more than saving yourself or pleasing your flesh, etc.
 
Loyal
Is it just me or is this pretty simple for the Christian?

(1)My understanding is submit to the government as unto the Lord.
(2)When the government clearly goes against God, disobey the government.

Isn't that it?
I think its really a gray area in some cases, like the closing of churches.

Because the governors have tried to close some of the churches against their own laws and the courts have said NO to the governors when challenged. so if the pastor would just listen to the state governor without challenging him he would have stayed shut down.

Our constitution is the law of the land is my understanding, so we now have governors openly disobedient to our constitution, so which do you obey??
 
Active
Our constitution is the law of the land is my understanding, so we now have governors openly disobedient to our constitution, so which do you obey??
Great question.

Hard one also.

(a)First
(in the list not necessarily in order of doing this first) I would say challenge the governors through the appropriate channels of checks and balance (courts, calling congress representative, etc),

(b)Seek God's guidance in prayer,

(c) Ask yourself is this worth standing up for and dealing with the consequences.
[
for example: I would go to jail for affirming my belief in Jesus at work if it was a crime and I was asked to denounce Jesus, however I would not go to jail if they said don't bring your Bible to work, I would just obey and share the gospel in speech.]

Each situation is different but I think these principles may guide.
 
Member
I never watch those videos. All are opinions .
Im only interested in talking with the peole here
Bill, you quoted my post above, which is not a vid. It was a link to my relevant Romans 13 post, which was found here --> Is God in control of the government?

(1)My understanding is submit to the government as unto the Lord.
(2)When the government clearly goes against God, disobey the government.

Isn't that it?
No, because it's an all-or-none thing. While Satan does much good in his overall plan of evil, such will never justify our allegiance to him - ANY allegiance.

Jesus encouraged the Jews to pay taxes to their oppressive Roman
leader.
No, he did not; in fact, forbidding to give tribute to Caesar was one of the accusations against Jesus:

And they began to accuse [Jesus], saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King. Luke 23:2).

(1a) When the children of Egypt were slaves they could have revolted but they waited on God and stayed in bondage (God's plan was Moses not a revolt)
Rather, they were captives.

(1b) Daniel stayed submitted to the King of Babylon.
Daniel was another captive.

Disobeying the government looks like:
(2a) When the 3 Hebrew boys refused to worship a statue and were thrown into the fiery furnace.

(2b) When Paul refused to obey the governing authorities who told him to stop preaching Christ.
Acts 5:29, "Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men."

The reason the apostles were arrested and most eventually executed was because they "all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus" (Acts 17:7). Our brother Paul said,

1 Corinthians 2:5, "That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God."

The apostles disobeyed their governing authorities because, "No man can serve two masters" (Matthew 6:24), and we are not to be "the servants of men" (1 Corinthians 7:23). We can only serve one lord, one Messiah, and no other lord. As Jesus asked in Luke 6:46, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" We are to do the things Jesus says to do, not the things Caesar says to do.

Do you remember when people used to call their government officials, like the police, our "public servants"? Why? Because they were supposed to serve people (Matthew 20:27, Mark 10:42, Luke 22:26). Now, those servants have become the masters, and they are feared more than they fear God (Matthew 10:28, Proverbs 29:25). However, true servants of God do not fear the king’s commandments (Hebrews 11:23). We are not to fear man (Psalm 56:4; 118:6, Isaiah 51:7, Matthew 10:28, Hebrews 13:6).

The earthly government is to sit on Christ’s shoulder (Isaiah 9:6), and there is no end to His government (Isaiah 9:7, Psalms 145:13). Those in government are instructed to follow God's Law and serve Him (Psalm 2:10-12). And we are to obey the ordinances of man as long as they do God’s Will; through punishing evildoers and praising them that do well (Romans 13:3, 1 Peter 2:13-17).

What did Jesus teach about the governments of men? Let us examine three parallel Gospel accounts. He himself explained:

Matthew 20:25, "...Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. "

Mark 10:42, "...they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them."

Luke 22:25, "...The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors."

By comparing these three parallel verses, Jesus stated the fact that the governing authorities (princes, rulers, kings) exercise authority over the Gentiles (those who do not believe in God). Note that the term "Gentiles" here cannot mean "Gentile Christians", because Jesus had not yet died to confirm the New Testament, and "Christianity" was not yet in existence. All the apostles were Jews, and Jesus commanded them not to preach to the Gentiles (Matthew 10:5-6). The Gentiles were the enemy of Christ at this point (Matthew 20:19; Mark 10:33, Luke 18:32). The Gospel was not preached to the Gentiles until at least 10 years after the resurrection of Jesus (Acts 9:15; 10:45; 11:1,18; 13:42,46-48).

Notice what Jesus says next. Does he say that His people will have other men rule over them? Most definitely not!

Matthew 20:26, "But it shall not be so among you:"

Mark 10:43, "But so shall it not be among you:"

Luke 22:26, "But ye shall not be so:"

Jesus said we shall not have leaders exercise authority over us like they do over the gentiles. We shall not be subject to governing authorities unless those in "power" are servants of God and His people. Read what Jesus said after he told his disciples that earthly princes, rulers, and kings will not have authority over His chosen:

Matthew 20:26-27, "…but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:"

Mark 10:43-44, "…but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all."

Luke 22:26, "...but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve."

As we see, Jesus does not want man to have authority over man! He commanded that whoever is the chiefest and greatest among men, will be the servant of all. Unlike human governments which make their chief ruler the dictator of all. Man was not created to rule other men, but was given dominion over the creatures of the earth. This is confirmed in the very first chapter of the Bible, when God created the earth. When our Father created the earth. When he first created man, He commanded, "...let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth" (Genesis 1:26,28). Only God has dominion over man. Man is not subject to any other man. Man is ruled by Law, not by the will of man.

Now, Jesus was not condemning all authority, as is clear from the fact that Jesus himself exercised authority over his disciples and others (Matthew 11:27; 23:10; 28:18, John 13:13), and expected his disciples to exercise authority as leaders of his congregation (Matthew 16:19; 18:17; 24:45-47; 25: 21,23, Luke 19:17,19). What sort of authority then was Jesus condemning in this passage? What difference was there between the authority of the gentile ruler and that of himself and his apostles? Surely this, that the latter rested on spiritual ascendancy and was exercised only over those who willingly submitted to it, whereas the former was exercised over all men indiscriminately whether they liked it or not, and for this reason involved the use of the sanctions of physical force and penalties. There can be no doubt that it was this fact that caused Jesus to tell his disciples: "It is not so among you."

When an earthly government believes it is "god walking on the earth," it has no true dominion (authority) but only force, and has fallen from the Grace of Almighty God. Dominion and force are opposed to one another. Force is false power.

Matthew 23:10, "Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ."

Remember, the reason Jesus Christ was crucified was because the governing "authorities" at that time were afraid that they were going to lose their "place and nation," their political power, if the people believed on Jesus (John 11:47-48).

Our constitution is the law of the land is my understanding, so we now have governors openly disobedient to our constitution, so which do you obey??
Rather, "The law of God and the law of the land are all one; and both preserve and favor the common good of the land." Bouvier's Law Dictionary (1914), "Maxim," p. 2142.

A conversation I had on my way to the Iron Bar Hotel:

Officer: We all must obey the laws of the land.
Bondservant: Yes, that is true. But the law of the land is not man's law, it is God's Law.

Officer: There is such a thing as separation of Church and State.
Bondservant: Well, anybody that believes that the Law of God and the law of the land are separate, they've deluded themselves. That's not living in the truth, that's living in an image of someone else's idea. Is there any law that man can create which sets the bounds of God's Law?

Officer: I'm afraid that I must arrest you now.
Bondservant: There is no law that compels an officer to violate God’s Law, which is the Supreme Law of the land, and the basis of all law in America.

The purpose of government is clearly defined in our Father's Word. That is, to punish evil and to praise those that do well. From this, the protection of life, liberty, and property (being gifts from God) follows in accordance with His Order.

But when a government falls into idolatry, it collects information from you because it must know where everyone and everything is, in order to tax or seize it.

Why is government prone to idolatry? Because governments only exist through law, and law is inherently religious. Behind every law is a judgment, and ones values are based upon their theology or religion. It’s the nature of government to perpetuate itself. Have you ever seen a politician who didn’t want to be re-elected, or a political party that did not want to stay in power? Every one of them are willing to do anything to keep themselves in power (John 11:47-48).

Government is power. Government is authority. And corrupt, depraved men, instead of exercising dominion over God’s creation for His sake, desire dominion over men for their own sake. What did the crafty serpent say to Adam and Eve? "Ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5). Who is it that has control over men? God does! If man believes he is his own god, or if he believes he is some kind of god, then he will exercise control over men in order to prove it.

A king rules by his law. Likewise, God rules by His Law, and His Law is the Word of God. Jews obeyed their king, Caesar, and killed those who did not obey their king (John 19:15). True servants of Christ honor Him by obeying Him (Luke 6:46, John 14:15), not by substituting man-made requirements in place of his.

Thus, in law, the human lawmaker becomes a god by determining for himself which of the many theories at his disposal he will apply to his next act on behalf of "the people." Of course, this means that every other law-maker has an equal "right" to apply his theories to the acts he does, and the only answer to the resulting chaos that comes out of the compromise between theories is that one man must impose his will on all others so that one "coherent" view will control the end result. This means, clearly, a dictatorship and nothing less will do.
 
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