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No such a thing as a literal Lake of Fire

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Member
Hi All,


1 Tim 2:4 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Matt 6:10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Me: It is God’s will that all be saved.



Isa 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Matt 24: 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

1 Cor 15:23
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Me: the saints are firstfruits with Christ and are saved at their deaths. The rest of the world is saved at Christ’s return.



1 Tim 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Hab 2:14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Rev 20:14 1And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Me: The second death is the death of death.



1 Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive (eternal life). 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Me:
No one is going to be in a literal lake of fire for ever. This is the false teaching of the devil. Christ is the severe trial or fire that will burn the sin and rebellion of all men in the end.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (me: literally drag) all men unto me.
 
Loyal
I bet you never stood on the surface of the sun and compared it to the description of the lake of fire.
 
Member
Hi All,

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Me: The wages of sin is death, not a big barbecue. God is a merciful God, not a monster.

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Me: This
is the second death.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
 
Member
Hi All,


Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Me: The wages of sin is death, not a big barbecue. God is a merciful God, not a monster.


Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Me: This is the second death.

Heb 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
 
Member
Hi All,


Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Me: Even the Pharisees shall be saved in the end where their evil nature and sin shall be burned away in the presence of the lamb.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.



Me: Even all of Israel shall be saved.

1 Cor 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Me: Even those that turn their backs on God after receiving the truth will be saved (Luke This happens at the end of the millennium. They will suffer loss of being in the first resurrection. The day of the Lord is a thousand years. A thousand years is like a day to the God (2 Peter 3:8).
 
Loyal
Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.


me means forever being punished

Revelation 20:10
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:15
And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


me is does not get any clearer then this forever and ever they will be tormented


I think we disagree on what death is, eternal death is the lake of fire that never ends with punishment, mortal death is simply not breathing anymore in this tent. We are spirits and we all will never actually cease to exist, its just a matter if we exist in eternal life with Jesus, or eternal punishment in the lake of fire.
 
Member
Hi Dave M,

You need to reconcile what I have said that the wages of sin is death and what you have said that the wages of sin is eternal damnation in a literal fire. You also need to reconcile that no one will suffer eternal punishment with the scriptures you quoted that most will.

I have done reconciliation in the past and will do it now. It is a task indeed.
 
Unworthy Servant
Staff Member
@Truthcomber
Greetings,

While i understand your line of reasoning (I think?) a question arises.

If what you present is correct, what is the point of a) becoming a Christian; b) telling anyone or witnessing about Christ Jesus the Lord; c) worrying at all about how we or others live or what we or others do?

It appears that if all are saved, no matter what, then the whole Christian thing is pointless and all the many martyred for Christ's sake was not at all necessary. Do you get my drift?


Bless you ....><>
 
Loyal
no bother I have no interest in going back and fourth, you believe what ever you want to the word has been given to you, its your choice
 
Member
Hi All,

Let's start with the Old Testament..


Exodus 21:5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: 6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

Me: Do you think that the servant in Exodus 21:5-6 is still alive today and still serving his master forever.


1 Sam 1:22 But Hannah went not up; for she said unto her husband, I will not go up until the child be weaned, and then I will bring him, that he may appear before the Lord, and there abide for ever (olam).

Me:
Is Hannah child still there today in the presence of the Lord? It is obvious that “for ever” here cannot mean eternity in most contexts.
Strong's Concordance
olam: long duration, antiquity, futurity
Original Word:
עוֹלָם
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: olam
Phonetic Spelling: (o-lawm')

Quote: The Greek word Gehenna is translated “hell” 12 times in the New Testament. Gehenna is a transliteration from Aramaic of the Hebrew gehennom, meaning “Valley of Hinnom.” This was a place near Jerusalem used for the disposal of refuse. In the days of the kings, children were burned in this valley in sacrifice to the pagan god Molech (2 Chron. 28:3; 33:6).

The area took on a sinister significance and was later made into a garbage and rubbish heap into which was cast all kinds of filth, along with carcasses of beasts and the unburied bodies of criminals who had been executed. Continual fires were kept burning to consume these. The flames were believed to be the image of the tires of what was thought of as “hell,” hence Gehenna came to mean hell.

Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh

Me: Is this fire still burning today.
 
Unworthy Servant
Staff Member
Hi All,

Let's start with the Old Testament..
Greetings again,

Hi All,

Let's start with the Old Testament..
no, before we start, can you please get back to me about my question(s)?

@Truthcomber
Greetings,

While i understand your line of reasoning (I think?) a question arises.

If what you present is correct, what is the point of a) becoming a Christian; b) telling anyone or witnessing about Christ Jesus the Lord; c) worrying at all about how we or others live or what we or others do?

It appears that if all are saved, no matter what, then the whole Christian thing is pointless and all the many martyred for Christ's sake was not at all necessary. Do you get my drift?


Bless you ....><>


Bless you ....><>
 
Loyal
If there is no Hell, there is no justice. ...................... Randy Alcorn

Guilty people can always rationalize sin. Hell exists because sin has no excuse.
..................Randy ALcorn

Hell is not evil; it’s a place where evil gets punished. Hell is not pleasant, appealing, or encouraging. But Hell is morally good, because a good God must punish evil.
..........Randy Alcorn
 
Unworthy Servant
Staff Member
Universalism is also known as the Doctrine of Inclusion, Ultimate Reconciliation, Universal Salvation, Universal Redemption or Universal Restoration.

 
Member
Greetings,

While i understand your line of reasoning (I think?) a question arises.

If what you present is correct, what is the point of a) becoming a Christian; b) telling anyone or witnessing about Christ Jesus the Lord; c) worrying at all about how we or others live or what we or others do?

Me: Matt 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side 20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. 22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. 23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Matt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Me: God chooses the few that are saved now. Only God can choose and save the few now. You are not the judge of who will understand and who will not. But you are still commanded to preach the word. You can preach the gospel on the roof tops, but only God can open eyes and ears.

Matt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 
Member
You: It appears that if all are saved, no matter what, then the whole Christian thing is pointless and all the many martyred for Christ's sake was not at all necessary. Do you get my drift?

Me: No, not at all.

Luke 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Me:
A good heart will be primarily seeking a reward and pleasing God not avoiding punishment.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Me: The small flock has a great reward to look forward to. They will be persecuted. So don’t worry about trails.

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

1 Cor 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the REST WERE BLINDED. 8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear:wink: unto this day.

Me: It is God that blinds those that do not see spiritual truths and you cannot do anything about it.
 
Member
Me: Sorry, I have no idea how that character got on my last post.

Continue with Romans 11.

Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob
 

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