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No Devil?

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Loyal
I've been a born again Christian for forty five years, and I just now learned that the devil was almost an unknown in the Old Covenant....If it was good, water, good harvests etc it came from God. If it was bad, famine, sickness, drought, it came from God....Huh? What's with that? But its true. See for yourself and comment?
Rick Renner said that this morning, Usually he's right but this time he just couldn't be...so I dug to prove him wrong.......uh.....Hmmmmm.
 
Loyal
I guess maybe it depends on how you interpret verses but... to me is isn't called "Satan" (he is called Lucifer in the KJV), he has many names but...

who was this guy?

Gen 3:1; Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"
Gen 3:2; The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;
Gen 3:3; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'"
Gen 3:4; The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!
(see Rev 12:9; and Rev 20:2; )

or this guy?

Eze 28:13; "You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.
Eze 28:14; "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15; "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.
Eze 28:16; "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:17; "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you.
(see Luke 10:18; )

How about this person?

Isa 14:9; Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Isa 14:10; All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
Isa 14:11; Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
Isa 14:12; How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Who is this "Prince of Persia"?

Dan 10:13; "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia.
Dan 10:20; Then he said, "Do you understand why I came to you? But I shall now return to fight against the prince of Persia; so I am going forth, and behold, the prince of Greece is about to come.

In a sense of false gods... to me, these really just Satan in disguise.

Num 22:41; And it came to pass on the morrow, that Balak took Balaam, and brought him up into the high places of Baal, that thence he might see the utmost part of the people.
Jdg 2:13; And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.

1Sam 5:4; And when they arose early on the morrow morning, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the ground before the ark of the LORD; and the head of Dagon and both the palms of his hands were cut off upon the threshold; only the stump of Dagon was left to him.

I'm sure I might be able to find a few more...
 
Loyal
I guess maybe it depends on how you interpret verses but... to me is isn't called "Satan" (he is called Lucifer in the KJV), he has many names but...

who was this guy?

Gen 3:1; Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"
Gen 3:2; The woman said to the serpent, "From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;
Gen 3:3; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'"
Gen 3:4; The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!
(see Rev 12:9; and Rev 20:2; )

or this guy?

Eze 28:13; "You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.
Eze 28:14; "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15; "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.
Eze 28:16; "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:17; "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you.
(see Luke 10:18; )

How about this person?

Isa 14:9; Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Isa 14:10; All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
Isa 14:11; Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
Isa 14:12; How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Who is this "Prince of Persia"?

Dan 10:13; "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia.
Dan 10:20; Then he said, "Do you understand why I came to you? But I shall now return to fight against the prince of Persia; so I am going forth, and behold, the prince of Greece is about to come.

In a sense of false gods... to me, these really just Satan in disguise.

Num 22:41; And it came to pass on the morrow, that Balak took Balaam, and brought him up into the high places of Baal, that thence he might see the utmost part of the people.
Jdg 2:13; And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.

1Sam 5:4; And when they arose early on the morrow morning, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the ground before the ark of the LORD; and the head of Dagon and both the palms of his hands were cut off upon the threshold; only the stump of Dagon was left to him.

I'm sure I might be able to find a few more...
I understand that my dear friend, but look at it this way...There are what.. 39 books in the Old Covenant? How many mentions of the devil, Satan, lucifer, the accuser, and in what context? Four thousand years of history and the people still though the bad stuff was from God and little mention of Satan....What's with that?
 
Active
I understand that my dear friend, but look at it this way...There are what.. 39 books in the Old Covenant? How many mentions of the devil, Satan, lucifer, the accuser, and in what context? Four thousand years of history and the people still though the bad stuff was from God and little mention of Satan....What's with that?
How many "mentions" would satisfy you ?
Do you really believe there is no devil-satan?
How can you, a man reborn of God's seed, doubt what may only be mentioned once?
The word "devil" is in the OT 4 times, but in the NT 102 times.
I think that more than makes up for the few times mentioned in the OT.
 
Loyal
1 Chron 21:1; Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel.

Job 1:6; Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.
Job 1:7; The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it."
Job 1:8; The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."
Job 1:9; Then Satan answered the LORD, "Does Job fear God for nothing?
Job 1:12; Then the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him." So Satan departed from the presence of the LORD.

Job 2:1; Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:2; The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it."
Job 2:3; The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause."
Job 2:4; Satan answered the LORD and said, "Skin for skin! Yes, all that a man has he will give for his life.
Job 2:6; So the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, he is in your power, only spare his life."
Job 2:7; Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.

Zec 3:1; Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.
Zec 3:2; The LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, Satan! Indeed, the LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?"

Psa 109:6; Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. (KJV)
Psa 74:10; How long, O God, will the adversary revile, And the enemy spurn Your name forever?
 
Active
I've been a born again Christian for forty five years, and I just now learned that the devil was almost an unknown in the Old Covenant....If it was good, water, good harvests etc it came from God. If it was bad, famine, sickness, drought, it came from God....Huh? What's with that? But its true. See for yourself and comment?
Rick Renner said that this morning, Usually he's right but this time he just couldn't be...so I dug to prove him wrong.......uh.....Hmmmmm.
Among the Jews I can agree with him. God was behind blessings and curses. But outside the Jews. Their enemies for example. I don't think anybody doubted the devil and devils were in them. They have always taught of the serpent, Adam and Eve.
 
Unworthy Servant
Staff Member
Mr Bendito, sir,

nosey on over to 1Kings 22.
Read through it and notice this bit:
And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by Him on His right hand and on His left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And He said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so
. 1Kings 22:19-22

I am not sure who or what you are or have been listening to, but BEWARE.


Bless you ....><>
 
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Loyal
How many "mentions" would satisfy you ?
Do you really believe there is no devil-satan?
How can you, a man reborn of God's seed, doubt what may only be mentioned once?
The word "devil" is in the OT 4 times, but in the NT 102 times.
I think that more than makes up for the few times mentioned in the OT.
LOLOL Now did I say that I don't believe in the devil? Oh! I understand....I'm speaking Canadian and you're speaking American! LOL
No...What I said was..."There is not much mention of the devil"...which is different from "I don't believe in a devil" What I said was "People tended to think the good and the bad came from God"
I know you'll catch that on the secnd attempt...
 
Loyal
1 Chron 21:1; Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel.

Job 1:6; Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.
Job 1:7; The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it."
Job 1:8; The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."
Job 1:9; Then Satan answered the LORD, "Does Job fear God for nothing?
Job 1:12; Then the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him." So Satan departed from the presence of the LORD.

Job 2:1; Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:2; The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it."
Job 2:3; The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause."
Job 2:4; Satan answered the LORD and said, "Skin for skin! Yes, all that a man has he will give for his life.
Job 2:6; So the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, he is in your power, only spare his life."
Job 2:7; Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.

Zec 3:1; Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.
Zec 3:2; The LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, Satan! Indeed, the LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?"

Psa 109:6; Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. (KJV)
Psa 74:10; How long, O God, will the adversary revile, And the enemy spurn Your name forever?
I did not include the book of Job in my search because this conversation did not involve any people...Just God and Satan with Job as the subject.
 
Loyal
Mr Bendito, sir,

nosey on over to 1Kings 22.
Read through it and notice this bit:
And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by Him on His right hand and on His left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And He said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so
. 1Kings 22:19-22

I am not sure who or what you are or have been listening to, but BEWARE.


Bless you ....><>
Thank you for your concern...I have no doubt of the existence of the devil, Satan, Lucifer, or whatever name he chooses for today....I am talking about how the Jews viewed him vs bad happenings.
 
Active
LOLOL Now did I say that I don't believe in the devil? Oh! I understand....I'm speaking Canadian and you're speaking American! LOL
No...What I said was..."There is not much mention of the devil"...which is different from "I don't believe in a devil" What I said was "People tended to think the good and the bad came from God"
I know you'll catch that on the secnd attempt...
Let me get my Canadian dictionary out...
I get it now!
I hope you don't think I'm some kind of hoser, eh?

I'm glad you cleared that up.
 
Loyal
Let me get my Canadian dictionary out...
I get it now!
I hope you don't think I'm some kind of hoser, eh?

I'm glad you cleared that up.
Hoser Hmmm I haven't thought of those two for a long time...What I thought of you was....a little brother
 
Active
[for me anyway] if we were to begin to say that there is no devil, then we would be making Jesus a liar, who plainly testifies of the devil: its that simple: it is a good thing for us to learn not to think above that which is written, that we keep ourselves away from exaggeration and over-estimation; which is where the love of man's use of knowledge (mans wisdom) dwells.
 

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