Mixed messages about sin?

[B-A-C]

Luke 13:3; "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Luke 13:4; "Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem?
Luke 13:5; "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

It seems some Christians are OK living in sin. They say they aren't. They say sin isn't OK.
But when you press them about certain things... yeah I'm living with girlfriend/boyfriend. Yeah we
sleep together. Yeah I look at pornography, yeah I get drunk frequently.... but hey I'm saved.
Yeah.. I'm in a homosexual relationship... but hey I'm saved.

We live in a time where anything goes.
Sometimes I think these people are confused, and I wonder why. Why do we think it doesn't matter if we live in sin? Well, I've even heard some preachers say the same thing.

We're all sinners and God loves us. We all sin every day and we will never stop sinning until we die.
Really? Where does the Bible say that?

I visited a church recently and talked to a couple who were getting baptized that very day. They weren't
married, but they are living together. The pastor knows this, but he baptized them anyway.. because
"who is he to judge". The Bible says we should judge those who call themselves Christians.

1 Cor 5:12; For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?

Are we sending a message to the world... hey it's OK.. sin all you want. God loves you.
Go ahead and fornicate, commit adultery, be homosexual, it's OK.. God loves you.

Jas 2:7; Do they not blaspheme the fair name by which you have been called?

Why are so many churches OK with this? Why are so many Christians OK with this?
Even here on TJ.... it seems there are some Christians here in sinful habits... habits they have been in
for years and years and they never seem to be able to "overcome". Why is this?

Maybe it's because the church is telling them they don't have to?

1 Jn 3:6; No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
1 Jn 3:7; Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
1 Jn 3:8; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
1 Jn 3:9; No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 Jn 3:10; By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

You may call yourself a Christian right now. But if you take a hard look at the verses above... are you really?
Are we even capable of judging ourselves?

It seems some people view sin like being on a diet.

Jas 2:10; For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

Well, I already messed up my diet today.. might as well go ahead and eat the whole cake.
I don't think the verse above is saying the consequences of one sin is the same is the same as the consequences of living in sin. I think it is saying no one is good enough without Jesus.
I know many people who claim to be "good people" but they aren't saved. They don't know Jesus.

On the other hand, I know people who do claim to be saved and know Jesus, and yet they live as wordly
and sinfully as anyone. Because well... God forgives.

Jesus didn't come so that we could just go on living in sin and be forgiven.

Luke 5:32; "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."

What does repentance mean to you?
Some churches are confused about this as well.. they say it's simply a change of heart.
Some say it's hating sin. But neither of those things is enough... neither is repentance.
Repentance mean... STOP!! Stop sinning.

Jude 1:4; For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

 

[B-A-C]

Jesus didn't leave a lot of room for error.

John 8:11; She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more."

I notice Jesus didn't say... from now on... just sin a little bit. He certainly didn't say... ahh.. it's OK... just go ahead and keep sinning.

John 5:14; Afterward Jesus *found him in the temple and said to him, "Behold, you have become well; do not sin anymore, so that nothing worse happens to you."

I notice here Jesus doesn't say... "do not sin as much". In fact there are consequences if you do continue in sin.

We also have Zaccheus. He knew what it meant to repent.

Luke 19:7; When they saw it, they all began to grumble, saying, "He has gone to be the guest of a man who is a sinner."
Luke 19:8; Zaccheus stopped and said to the Lord, "Behold, Lord, half of my possessions I will give to the poor, and if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I will give back four times as much."
Luke 19:9; And Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because he, too, is a son of Abraham.
Luke 19:10; "For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost."

Zaccheus didn't say... well I won't take quite a money as I used to. Jesus says salvation came to his house because of this.
I wonder if Jesus would have said the same thing if Zaccheus would said... It's mine and I'm keeping it all.

Luke 15:7; "I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:10; "In the same way, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents."

I wonder why Jesus didn't say... "there is joy in heaven over those who keep on sinning"?

 

[Dave M]

hey BAC I agree with everything you said.

I do wonder how you view un-intential sin?

 

[KingJ]

The question we have to consider on any sin, is what the state of the heart behind that sin is.

A murderer has given themselves completely over to wickedness. A rapist has given themselves completely over to wickedness. These types of sinners are close to God and them, knowing their hearts desire sin more then righteousness. A theme throughout the bible is ''sin full measure''. God spared the Amorites until their sin was full measure Gen 15:16. God spared Sodom until their sin was full measure. There will be no person in hell one-day who is confused or has doubts as to why they are there and not in heaven.

So we may fail at seeing a person's heart, but God does not. I do not believe we fail badly either.

Sexual sin makes for an interesting discussion. We can grasp the degree of wickedness with sins like stealing. For example stealing from an orphan vs stealing a corn from a cornfield. But sexual sins do not alert a 'conscience' meter for the already unGodly. Sexual sin is only clearly grasped / known when one considers God.

Lets take homosexuality as an example. Both consenting adults. No ill intentions to hurt anyone. No attack on the second commandment. BUT a clear attack on the first commandment. ''Love God with all your heart and mind''. Religion today has done away with the first commandment. When you consider God's advised punishment for homosexuality under Judaism. You see His hatred of it. So this is a brick wall that I cannot see any God fearing homosexual passing. When they get on their knees and work out their salvation in fear and trembling before God Phil 2:12. As we all should and can do 1 Cor 11:31.

 

[At Peace]

hey BAC I agree with everything you said.

I do wonder how you view un-intential sin?

There is no such thing.
James writes..."But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." (James 1:14-15)
So we see that lust and an enticement are necessary for sin to be conceived.
You don't accidentally commit murder or theft, etc.

 

[Dave M]

There is no such thing.
James writes..."But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." (James 1:14-15)
So we see that lust and an enticement are necessary for sin to be conceived.
You don't accidentally commit murder or theft, etc.

Hebrews 9:7
But into the second only the high priest goes, and he but once a year, and not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the unintentional sins of the people.


Numbers 15:22
“But if you sin unintentionally, and do not observe all these commandments that the Lord has spoken to Moses,


Leviticus 4:2
“Speak to the people of Israel, saying, If anyone sins unintentionally in any of the Lord's commandments about things not to be done, and does any one of them,


Leviticus 5:17
“If anyone sins, doing any of the things that by the Lord's commandments ought not to be done, though he did not know it, then realizes his guilt, he shall bear his iniquity.

 

[At Peace]

Hebrews 9:7
But into the second only the high priest goes, and he but once a year, and not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the unintentional sins of the people.
Numbers 15:22
“But if you sin unintentionally, and do not observe all these commandments that the Lord has spoken to Moses,
Leviticus 4:2
“Speak to the people of Israel, saying, If anyone sins unintentionally in any of the Lord's commandments about things not to be done, and does any one of them,
Leviticus 5:17
“If anyone sins, doing any of the things that by the Lord's commandments ought not to be done, though he did not know it, then realizes his guilt, he shall bear his iniquity.

Aren't you glad we don't live in the OT?
We will only be judged for the actions we commit, and those we intend to commit.

Why would God condemn one for, say,... hitting a kid who runs out between cars and killing them?
Were we enticed to fulfill a lust? See James 1:14-15.