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Loyal
Mark 4:11; And He was saying to them, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables,
Mark 4:12; so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN."


It seems often in the heaven, there are things that people "might" do, and "may" do.
There are things that God "might" do. But just because these things "might" happen, doesn't mean
that they've already happened, or that they will happen at all.

In the verse above we see Jesus saying... "might" return... and be forgiven.
Not already have returned, and already have been forgiven.

John 3:16; "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:17; "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
John 3:18; "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

but that the world "might" be saved through Him. Again, it doesn't say definitely will be, it doesn't
say they already have been. It says they "might" be at some point.

2 Cor 5:21; He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Many people take verses out of the Bible, and say "we are already the righteousness of God". But that
isn't what the Bible says, it says we "might" become (once our faith has been tested and proved).

Gal 2:2; It was because of a revelation that I went up; and I submitted to them the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but I did so in private to those who were of reputation, for fear that I might be running, or had run, in vain.

Even Paul says he was afraid that some of the things he did "might be" in vain.

There are are many more verses like this. But many churches are preaching as if everything is already
done... when in fact, they "might be" done under certain circumstances.
 
Active
but that the world "might" be saved through Him. Again, it doesn't say definitely will be, it doesn't
say they already have been. It says they "might" be at some point.
I have bee saying this for a few years now.

God came down off his glorious throne to live with us to give us himself to walk us through the ways to Heaven & explained, showed us the way, the truth and the light. He died on the cross for a "MAYBE".


Fantastic post B-A-C as always!!!!!
 
Moderator
Staff Member
It seems often in the heaven, there are things that people "might" do, and "may" do.
There are things that God "might" do. But just because these things "might" happen, doesn't mean
that they've already happened, or that they will happen at all.
In the verse above we see Jesus saying... "might" return... and be forgiven.
Not already have returned, and already have been forgiven.
You're taking this out of context to what is written. Meaning.....you just "might" be wrong.

Pulling a word here or there to make a point is taking it out of context to what was said. I will use the same translation that you have to make my point and prove your own.

Mark 4:11; And He was saying to them,"To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables,
Mark 4:12;so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN."
In v11 who was Jesus talking to who were given the mystery of the kingdom of God? Disciples? Who were not His disciples? Everyone else who He had been talking to. The Jewish people who He had actually came for. However, in order for the Gentiles to be grafted to the tree, some branches were broken off.

You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.Romans 11:19-21

Does this sound similar to your verses?

just as it is written,"GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY." ... 10 "LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT,AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER." Romans 11:8, 10 (Deuteronomy 29:4; Isaiah 29:10)

You can read Romans 11 to get the gist of the need for the Jewish people to reject our Lord. While Mark 4:12 speaks to a remnant which one can see is who our Lord is talking to in Mark 4:11.

I believe you wanted to lead these verses to "might" as it pertains to salvation. You shouldn't have. It's prophetic and directly related to the Jewish people and not the gentiles unless you focus on something more than "might" and additional scripture verses to make your point.

John 3:16;"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:17;"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
John 3:18;"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
but that the world "might" be saved through Him. Again, it doesn't say definitely will be, it doesn't
say they already have been. It says they "might" be at some point.
It was great that you included v18 because that is the condition by which "might be saved" is achieved and provides context. Put them all together and you have a delineation between those saved/not judged and those not saved/and judged. It's not placing an additional "unknown" condition on the saved or for that matter on the unsaved.

2 Cor 5:21; He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Many people take verses out of the Bible, and say "we are already the righteousness of God". But that
isn't what the Bible says, it says we "might" become (once our faith has been tested and proved).
I'm not sticking up for the opposing position, but you make no sense here brother. The moment you stated "...people take verses out of the Bible, and say....." you've just placed yourself in the same position that you have stated is wrong for certain others to do.

I only agree with you in part here. :) For your statement against says "we are already the righteousness of God". Isn't this a true statement when the point of view is God's that is being talked about? Does He not know who belongs to Him and who does not?

I agree with you because looking from our own position which lacks full knowledge/knowing....our faith will be tested and proved!

Gal 2:2; It was because of a revelation that I went up; and I submitted to them the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but I did so in private to those who were of reputation, for fear that I might be running, or had run, in vain.

Even Paul says he was afraid that some of the things he did "might be" in vain.

There are are many more verses like this. But many churches are preaching as if everything is already
done... when in fact, they "might be" done under certain circumstances.
I do agree with you here as it pertains to the churches. However, in God's eyes it is done.

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.Romans 8:29-30

Notice that Paul talks in the past tense as if it is already done. For God it is. We're the ones who are left wondering if we're part of that number going through that narrow door. Are we doing enough? Are we doing the right things? Are we doing God's will in our lives?

"Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.Luke 13:24

Always interesting brother BAC.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
 
Loyal
Its those who He foreknew... Knowing the future of someone doesn't mean you made them make the decisions
that lead to that future. But once they made their own choice, It was "predestined" that they would eventually
become conformed to the image of His Son. If they were already converted, it wouldn't be "pre"destined. It
would just be destiny. Pre-destined mean before. Not present tense.

I could go to an airport, and there are 3 planes taking off.
One is going to Paris. One is going to Rome. and one is going to Jerusalem.
It's up to me to decide which plane to get on. But once I make my choice, the destination
of that plane is already "predestined". But that doesn't mean the plane has already arrived
at it's destination. The journey to get there still has to take place.
 
Loyal
I believe you wanted to lead these verses to "might" as it pertains to salvation. You shouldn't have. It's prophetic and directly related to the Jewish people and not the gentiles unless you focus on something more than "might" and additional scripture verses to make your point.
Does my verses above John 3:17; and 2 Cor 5:21; only pertain to Jews? Or salvation?
 
Loyal
Rom 6:4; Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

It doesn't say we "will". It says we "might" as in possibly, maybe.. if we choose to.

Rom 7:4; Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

Even if we use Paul and the Jews as an example...

1 Cor 9:20; To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;

Did all Jews get converted? Did no Jews at all get converted? Some did... the ones that chose to be.

2 Cor 5:15; and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

Does everyone who says they believe in Jesus quit living for themselves? No, the ones who choose to do.
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Its those who He foreknew... Knowing the future of someone doesn't mean you made them make the decisions
that lead to that future. But once they made their own choice, It was "predestined" that they would eventually
become conformed to the image of His Son. If they were already converted, it wouldn't be "pre"destined. It
would just be destiny. Pre-destined mean before. Not present tense.

I could go to an airport, and there are 3 planes taking off.
One is going to Paris. One is going to Rome. and one is going to Jerusalem.
It's up to me to decide which plane to get on. But once I make my choice, the destination
of that plane is already "predestined". But that doesn't mean the plane has already arrived
at it's destination. The journey to get there still has to take place.
Dear Brother BAC. Why is it so hard to accept that He knows and we do not? "For those He foreknew...."
Of cause the journey still has to be traveled. Just like our Lord's Sacrifice still had to be made on the Cross.

I'll not get into the Arminian or Calvinist discussion.
Let's leave it at that I believe that God is all powerful and all knowing.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
 
Moderator
Staff Member
I believe you wanted to lead these verses to "might" as it pertains to salvation. You shouldn't have. It's prophetic and directly related to the Jewish people and not the gentiles unless you focus on something more than "might" and additional scripture verses to make your point.
Does my verses above John 3:17; and 2 Cor 5:21; only pertain to Jews? Or salvation?
Similar to what you do. I try to first quote what I'm going to respond to. I do believe you misread what I posted. What you quoted from me had to do with my response to Mark 4:11-12 and not John 3:17 and 2 Corinthians 5:21. I addressed those particular verses immediately after quoting them.

Now if you're asking me if as Mark 4:11-12 was addressed to only the Jew, if John 3:17 and 2 Corinthians 5:21 were as well. I would have to say no. They were addressed to both, Jew and Gentile.

I hope this provides you a little more clarity on my responses to you.

With the Love of Christ Jesus dear brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><
 
Moderator
Staff Member
@BAC

Dear Brother.

Since your focus is on the use of the word "might" in scripture. Let me ask you a question. What's is the Greek and Hebrew word for "might"? I ask this because I realized that depending on the translation you use the resulting words used besides "might" are: "should" or "may". If the translators chose between three (3) different English words in this instance. It made me wonder how many Greek or Hebrew variations could there be?

My thoughts run in this direction because years ago.....I came to see the Greek variation of words used for the one word with infinite meaning in scripture; which is "Love". It made me realize that at times the English language only had the ability in some instances to provide but a general descriptive understanding of what the writer was trying to communicate in the original language.

I write this, because in many instances I agree with what you are saying. It is only in certain ones that your attempt to place a round peg into a square hole makes me go crossed eyed :) (Where's a cross eyed emo when you need one! sigh)

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Even if we use Paul and the Jews as an example...

1 Cor 9:20; To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;

Did all Jews get converted? Did no Jews at all get converted? Some did... the ones that chose to be.
Did not God set aside a remnant of the Jewish people who would be saved? Hasn't He always done this with His people?

2 Cor 5:15; and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

Does everyone who says they believe in Jesus quit living for themselves? No, the ones who choose to do.
"...they who live might no longer...." Who are those that "live"? Those who are B-A-C! Those who are not, are still dead. How can one who "lives" die? What is the only unpardonable sin?

We are not really far apart brother. Some might call it a matter of "Semantics".

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
 
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