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Luke 14:25-35

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Greetings dear brothers and sisters in Christ. Our text will be Luke 14:25-35. Lets begin by reading aloud the scriptures:


And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned? It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Prayer: Dear Lord God of heaven and earth, we come before you and sit in awe of your written word, which is a light unto our feet. We consider the selection of scripture here today and ask that you will reveal the truth of it unto us your children, that every man may be edified by your grace and truth which are in Jesus your Son. Please have mercy on those who have yet to receive your words and open the eyes of the blind that they may see. Call still others unto repentance unto you using your goodness which leads men to repentance. I pray for those who believe, Lord God, that they may strive to be righteous before you by the example of your righteousness manifest in the flesh as our Lord Jesus Christ. May those who have ears to hear, hear your message. In the blessed name of our Lord and Savior you have given unto us, the mediator of the new covenant. Amen.

Due to the gracious words of Jesus that were confirmed by his miracles of feeding and healing, he had amassed many followers. At this particular time he turned to them to give them understanding of what it takes to be an actual disciple of his. His first point:

  • If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Jesus spoke a simple truth that his disciples (students who were learning how to gain eternal life through him) must without exception prefer him above all family and whatever life they had up to this point or they could not be his disciple. He was explaining a simple choice that set the order by which his disciples would choose to do things.

If a mother or father spoke against his teachings the true disciple would choose Jesus. Same with brothers or sisters or even his own children. Always choose Jesus and his teaching over all.

Illustration: A man, who was a disciple of Jesus, had a father who came home from work one day while the man was visiting his mother. The father began to complain about his boss and all of the things that were stressing him about his job. He turned to the man (his son) and said "I think I will go in to work tomorrow and give my boss what he deserves! A half days work. I am tired of him pushing me around and I have the power to do something about it." The son thought for a moment before speaking and said "Jesus taught that we should love our enemies and do good to them that hate us." His father beheld him in displeasure and said "Your Jesus is a wimp who doesn't know how to deal with a man like my boss.". The son lowered his head and said, "father, I understand that you don't believe and I truly wish that you did. But I must follow Jesus as I know that he is the Son of God who has the words of eternal life.". His fathers anger deepened and he stood up and with a brisk tone and barked, "Son, if you think your Jesus knows better than me, then you can leave here and go follow him, but in my house, I am the one who knows best!". The man, who was his son, arose from his seat quietly and walked to the door. He turned to his father and spoke these words in a gentle voice, "May God have mercy upon you and call you unto Jesus, granting you repentance from your sin and an acknowledging of the truth that you are not God". And as the door closed gently behind him he could hear his father fall into a rage, exploding with anger. The man simply walked away to follow Jesus.

His second point:

  • And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

The cross that Jesus bore was for the sin of the world. Every disciple who comes after Jesus must take up his own cross bearing the sins of those around him that they may be brought to Christ.

Illustration: The man walking down the street, who had just left his fathers home to prefer Jesus over his father, came to a intersection of a four way stop. Looking up unto heaven, he prayed "Lord God please forgive my father and grant him repentance toward you, that he may become a disciple of Jesus and live". A moment later he heard the scuff of a boot on the walk behind him. Turning around he came face to face with his father. No words were exchanged. Just a blow to the face by the back of his fathers hand. He fell to the ground. His father spoke back to him in a low growl, "I suggest you not get up unless you are ready to respect me." The man stood on his feet and faced his father. As his gaze came to meet his fathers eyes he softly spoke these words, "Jesus is Lord over all." Again, he was struck and hit the ground. He could hear the boots of his father as he walked away furious.

Continuing his point Jesus spoke:
  • For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

Well known in Israel was the story of the tower of Babel and the men who wished to disobey God and escape his wrath. Having been told to go out to the ends of the world, they chose to disobey and build a city instead with a tower whose top may reach unto heaven. They would accomplish the task of salvation on their own apart from God. They did not possess the resources necessary to finish it and after confusing their speech they were scattered abroad and forced to fulfill the will of God.

Illustration: Upon leaving the man, his son, lying on the ground the father went back to his home unable to comprehend what had just happened. As he entered the house, his wife was sitting in the living room sobbing in grief. Touched, the father spoke "I can't just allow him to bring his religion and force it upon me like that. It is wrong. God would not do that to anyone.". His wife drying her eyes and gaining composure asked, "How was he forcing it upon you?". "He knows that I have my own way to God and do not need any mythical Jesus shoved down my throat. All I need to do is live a decent life. We all know right from wrong.". His wife considered his words and lowered her head and spoke softly, "Does your way include a way to make right the wrong that you have done in your life? Is your God righteous?". These words hit the father hard and he was pricked to the core. He walked away embarrassed and confused. Spending time alone in his shop working on a lawn mower he thought about those words. "How do I make right the wrongs? There must be justice, right?", The thoughts consumed him and he had no answer.

Continuing his Point Jesus said:
  • Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.

We all have to consider our resources wisely. Knowing that there is one who is greater than us, who is God, we must consider the day of reckoning when we will have to come up against him and face him to his face.

Illustration: The next morning the father awoke in a deep sweat. He had been having night terrors all night, dreaming of meat grinders eating his flesh slowly grinding him to bits. He arose, showered and decided to go for a walk. At the end of the street before the intersection he stopped and looked about. His gaze fell to the ground as he saw the small stains of blood that fell from his sons nose and mouth the day before. The words filled his mind, "I must be able to pay for this." He stopped and prayed, "God, my God who has made me. You know that I do the best that I can and that I use the best judgment possible. I know that it isn't supposed to be this way. Why is it so messed up? How can I fix what is broken? My son is so sure that this Jesus is your son and that his way is right. How can I just do good to evil people? That isn't right. But I know that I will have to give an answer for what I do and I cannot deny what my son has done in not retaliating against me. WHY DO I FEEL SO HORRIBLE?!?! HE IS SUPPOSED TO RESPECT ME!" The father, dropped and began to sob. He spoke through the tears "God, I can't do it."

The end of the point Jesus spoke:
  • So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

We must, if we are to be disciples of Jesus, truly forsake all of our own understanding of how we will get to God or any of our own resources that we have. All of our false religion must be denied and replaced with a humility that we follow Jesus without question as one of his disciples obeying all he commands or else we simply cannot be his disciple. Our ideas will not get us there.

Illustration: The man, the son, walked out of the store holding his groceries in hand. As he placed them in the back seat of his car, he looked through to the other side and saw his father sitting quietly. He stopped for a moment gazing upon his father who was clutching a small book in his hand. His father looked up with tears streaming down his face into the bruised face of his son. It was all he could do to muster the broken words unto his son. "I want what you have son." Silence overtook the air as they sat there.

The conclusion of the matter, Jesus speaks:
  • Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned? It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

We will all be faced with challenges to our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as being the way, the truth and the life. If we continue to believe on him and obey his words of eternal life, then others will either join us or kill us. Both of them glorifying God. If we truly are the salt of the world who defeat evil with good as we rely upon the Lord to guide us home down the path that he has cut out for us. Teaching us that only by making him and his way preferred over all and forsaking any of our own resources, we can have victory. In this life we will have to take others sin upon us if we are to win them to Christ. We must not only tell them the way but show them by actually following the Christ we claim to love. Otherwise in the end of things we will be good for nothing, but cast out and trodden under the feet of men.

May the Lord God bless this message and impress upon your heart the lost who are around you. May he cause you to decide to get off the fence and become a true disciple who goes out into a wicked world with the intention of being both salt and light to a perverse and froward generation. Building up your brothers and sisters in Christ, while shining a beacon of light to those elect who are still wandering about in darkness.

In Jesus Name,

Gary
 
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Luk 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.


Luk 18:28-30 Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee. (29) And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, (30) Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.


This is what i have been thinking. Jesus says to leave all yet many christians havent left everything. (All their possessions and house and family).

So it must be for reward if we leave everything? As salvation is of grace.
 
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Luk 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.


Luk 18:28-30 Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee. (29) And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, (30) Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.


This is what i have been thinking. Jesus says to leave all yet many christians havent left everything. (All their possessions and house and family).

So it must be for reward if we leave everything? As salvation is of grace.
Jesus doesn't mean that we are to literally leave our families and our loved ones to follow Him, not does He literally mean to leave behind all our possessions. It is a matter of comparisons. By comparison with our love for Jesus, our attitude toward our families is indifference. My wife is not a Christian. Yet I have found that the closer my walk with Jesus, the closer my wife's walk with me. As I reach upward, she follows, regardless of her non commitment.
The scripture says elsewhere that we are to love our wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it. Christ doesn't leave the church ... we are not to leave our wives...however, if because of my faith my wife chooses to give me an ultimatum: "If you don't give up Jesus I am leaving you!" Then we are to let them go. It is a matter of priority. The same with children. Jesus does not expect them to leave home the moment they come to know Him. Such an action would put Jesus in a very bad light. But they must love Him first and foremost. They must obey His commandments, and if such should contradict their parents, then they are to obey God and not man, regardless of the consequences.
There are however instances for the sake of ministry that people are called out of their families and homes. One must be sure that it is the Lord who is calling them however and not a false spirit or selfish heart. Even spiritual ambition can be selfish, and is wrong.
We will always have a duty to our families.
"Honour thy father and thy mother". "Hide not thyself from thine own flesh". (Isa. 58)
 
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Jesus doesn't mean that we are to literally leave our families and our loved ones to follow Him, not does He literally mean to leave behind all our possessions. It is a matter of comparisons. By comparison with our love for Jesus, our attitude toward our families is indifference. My wife is not a Christian. Yet I have found that the closer my walk with Jesus, the closer my wife's walk with me. As I reach upward, she follows, regardless of her non commitment.
The scripture says elsewhere that we are to love our wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it. Christ doesn't leave the church ... we are not to leave our wives...however, if because of my faith my wife chooses to give me an ultimatum: "If you don't give up Jesus I am leaving you!" Then we are to let them go. It is a matter of priority. The same with children. Jesus does not expect them to leave home the moment they come to know Him. Such an action would put Jesus in a very bad light. But they must love Him first and foremost. They must obey His commandments, and if such should contradict their parents, then they are to obey God and not man, regardless of the consequences.
There are however instances for the sake of ministry that people are called out of their families and homes. One must be sure that it is the Lord who is calling them however and not a false spirit or selfish heart. Even spiritual ambition can be selfish, and is wrong.
We will always have a duty to our families.
"Honour thy father and thy mother". "Hide not thyself from thine own flesh". (Isa. 58)

sounds very literal to me. I think you missed this text?

"Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, (30) Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time"

Jesus was saying that you left and you receive manifold.
 
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Luk 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.


Luk 18:28-30 Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee. (29) And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, (30) Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.


This is what i have been thinking. Jesus says to leave all yet many christians havent left everything. (All their possessions and house and family).

So it must be for reward if we leave everything? As salvation is of grace.

Jari, I would encourage you to be careful here. You are beginning a thought in verse 33 of chapter 14 and combining it with 3 verses from chapter 18 which is 4 chapters later. A lot has happened between the two. While one can argue New Testament Law this way it produces a lot of error.

Consider the rich young ruler that came to Jesus in chapter 18 that provoked Peter's response of having left all and followed Jesus. He had kept all of the commandments since his youth and yet Jesus beheld him and loved him, telling him that he lacked something still. The man was putting his faith in his riches and not in God. The only way to cure that for him would be to let it all go and follow Christ then and there.

Consider your line of reasoning (if I am correct) that all men are expected to literally sell all possessions and follow Jesus in order to be his disciple. If this were the case, why would Jesus send the multitude away (Mk 6:45)? What would men be expected to do today since Jesus is not physically here with us to follow today? Would they sell all and then go where? How would the church have enough structure for Paul to be able to send letters to each of them that we have collected as our New Testament? The bible says that there are times when the church is to be assembled in one place and then times that they are not. Where would people who own nothing go? Roam around homeless begging for food and clothing?

I personally sold all of my possessions to follow Christ. I gave up ownership of all things and have entrusted them to God. He however has decided that I should continue to operate a home for my family to live in and guests to have available when necessary. He has decided that I should retain possession of other things for the work of his ministry in my life to others such as a computer and vehicles. None of these things do I claim as my own and when God has shown me that he wants his things given or loaned out to whomever he chooses, I lend or give hoping not to receive again as they are Gods things. I have forsaken all in this way to follow Christ my Lord.
 
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Consider your line of reasoning (if I am correct) that all men are expected to literally sell all possessions and follow Jesus in order to be his disciple. If this were the case, why would Jesus send the multitude away (Mk 6:45)? What would men be expected to do today since Jesus is not physically here with us to follow today? Would they sell all and then go where? How would the church have enough structure for Paul to be able to send letters to each of them that we have collected as our New Testament? The bible says that there are times when the church is to be assembled in one place and then times that they are not. Where would people who own nothing go? Roam around homeless begging for food and clothing?

What did the first 11 followers of Jesus do? They left everything. What Did paul do when he was converted? apparently he went around the world and did not have wife with him, so he too left everything.
What did the first christians do in acts? they sold everything and shared the money among them all.


Act 4:32-37 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. (33) And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

(34) Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, (35) And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

(36) And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, (37) Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.


I'm not saying were doing something wrong here. Im just saying they seemed to be more of dedicated followers than christians typically are today.
 
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What did the first 11 followers of Jesus do? They left everything. What Did paul do when he was converted? apparently he went around the world and did not have wife with him, so he too left everything.
What did the first christians do in acts? they sold everything and shared the money among them all.


Act 4:32-37 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. (33) And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

(34) Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, (35) And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

(36) And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, (37) Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.


I'm not saying were doing something wrong here. Im just saying they seemed to be more of dedicated followers than christians typically are today.

The first 11 were Apostles. Paul was an Apostle. The early church did in fact sell possessions so that all who had need could have their needs fulfilled and we should be no different today. But not everybody sold their homes, even though the text says 'all' and 'as many as' owned them did. The evidence of this can be found in Paul's letters where he refers to different people and the churches that were in their 'house' or how many were gathered at John Marks mothers house praying for the release of Peter. Or Anannias who took Paul in unto his own house after his meeting Christ on the road to Damascus.

The idea that we should not consider anything our own but use all things to the best use of the brethren is right. But the idea that everyone should forsake all and sell all and never possess anything is not biblical. If we don't possess this worlds goods then we cannot give to those who have need as John said we should do.
 
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The first 11 were Apostles. Paul was an Apostle. The early church did in fact sell possessions so that all who had need could have their needs fulfilled and we should be no different today. But not everybody sold their homes, even though the text says 'all' and 'as many as' owned them did. The evidence of this can be found in Paul's letters where he refers to different people and the churches that were in their 'house' or how many were gathered at John Marks mothers house praying for the release of Peter. Or Anannias who took Paul in unto his own house after his meeting Christ on the road to Damascus.

The idea that we should not consider anything our own but use all things to the best use of the brethren is right. But the idea that everyone should forsake all and sell all and never possess anything is not biblical. If we don't possess this worlds goods then we cannot give to those who have need as John said we should do.

the scriptures says "all things common"
and
"for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them"

so i take this for what it says.

if Bible says all sold then i take it means all here.

if some one had houses that must have meant they become believers later.
 
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the scriptures says "all things common"
and
"for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them"

so i take this for what it says.

if Bible says all sold then i take it means all here.

if some one had houses that must have meant they become believers later.

OK..........
 
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OK..........

amazing how we take for what it says?

i see you read bible to discredit other parts of it.

its very different from my way of reading. because i take it for it says and to discredit what has been said. its not reasonable.
you probably tried to be reasonable but i think you've gone too far in liberty that you discredit verses of their accuracy.
 
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amazing how we take for what it says?

i see you read bible to discredit other parts of it.

its very different from my way of reading. because i take it for it says and to discredit what has been said. its not reasonable.
you probably tried to be reasonable but i think you've gone too far in liberty that you discredit verses of their accuracy.

Your opinion has been noted.
 
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I agree with Brakelite mostly. Common sense is to be applied and the main thing to walk away from to do as Jesus would have us to do is very simply HUMAN SPIRITUAL LEADERSHIP. Humans do not have any common sense and seem to wish to obtain salvation by self sacrifice.

Would Jesus have said to a poor man , a man who works and supports his family and meets the needs of his family and so on, to sell all he has and give it away and become totally lacking in all things and become dependent himself. Are all to do this?? If all are to do this who will provide for the poor? Who will provide for shelter and care to those who need this? When Jesus stayed with his friend Lazarus and his family did he require they sell their home?? Or simply share it and provide shelter?

To begin with Jesus never used the word sell or give away all your possessions. It is man who put in that word ALL. Jesus also says to sell your possessions......curious eh?? What he means is to if you have excess possessions to sell them and provide to charity in the needs of that particular charity. For example if Peter and the ones who went fishing with the boat and nets and all the material things required for this, once they no longer needed the boat , a charity would have no need of a boat, so sell it and provide for what the need actually is.

Jesus spoke to the rich man as he did in a way of teaching. It is just a way to illustrate that when one is highly successful and rich that one worships this rather than God. That is is hard for a rich man to follow God, but instead does tend to follow money. So in other text Jesus said you cannot have two masters, both God and money. But.........a rich man who does love God, such as David who was a sinner, who was greatly blessed with many things, who did follow God, will find favor with God, if he also shares and does use his excess money for good. It is a way of teaching. If you have lots of money, simply help with it.

We are to accept all that God allows us to have. We are to provide for ourselves and our family and meet all the requirements of life. We are to provide for our children and family. If we sell.....ALL (mans word again) and become poor and become destitute, have we done as Jesus would wish?? Are we to place ourselves and our family into this situation?

No we are not , we are to simply accept what God gives us, but also share if we have something to share. And our home should always be open to others if that is a need. Much of what Jesus said were ways of teaching, parables if you will. A way of common sense.

As for hating family and relatives and so on......yes, this is simple too. If family and so on do not chose to follow Jesus we should above all chose God over family. This is understood.

But this does not literally mean if one of family does not believe to kick them out the door, to literally hate them. This again are the words of man. Instead compassion, understanding, forgiveness from us as Jesus provides forgiveness to us, applies. If a spouse does not believe but lives in harmony and in the family unit we are not to throw them out, but by example and with continued harmony they will one day accept God also.

So when you read mans interpretation of these scriptures, just ask yourself, did or would Jesus have said to a common man, a poor man like most of us are , a person with a family who works hard to just make a living and provide for all within the family to give and sell ALL and become a beggar? Or does simple common sense apply to life??

I listen to what the Holy Spirit tells me, and I am told to work hard, to provide for my family, for our entire family to work together and to live in harmony, to not literally hate anyone, but to understand and explain and to show by example many things. To enjoy life and to give Thanks to God for all. And if we do have excess money or material things to share them. To yes if you can help the poor, but I am not required to give up ALL........and become dependent upon others.

My take on it all.

Kit
 
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Well, it wouldn't be so bad if everyone was completely selfless and sold everything, so I don't understand the debate going on here. Thought people do have their own perspectives, and we should share them with each other.
 
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