"Lordship Salvation"

[james g]

Jesus Christ is the only Saviour of mankind there is. "There is none other Name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved"
Acts 4:12. When He was born, the angel declared, "Unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour which is Christ the Lord" Luke 2:11. The prophet Isaiah quotes God as saying, "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside Me there is no Saviour" Isaiah 43:11.


The Scriptures are emphatic that God took on flesh in the person of the Son, Jesus Christ, and became man's Saviour


John 1:1 - 3, 14, 29.



Man's belief or lack of belief in the Saviourship of Jesus does not change the fact that Jesus Christ is truly the Saviour. However, when a man recognizes that Jesus Christ is truly the Saviour and trusts Him to be his Saviour, then - and only then - does that man receive the benefits of Christ's saving power.



Christ died and rose again for all


Hebrews 2:9; I John 2:2, but He saves only those who trust Him. That is to say, even though He is the "Saviour of the world," He saves only those in the world who personally and individually receive Him by faith. God invites "whosoever will" to trust in His Son, but it is an amazing truth of God's Word that men can forbid the Saviour to save them. Such men die without a Saviour, though One was available to them all the time John 3:16 - 18; I John 5:10 - 12; Revelation 22:17.



What we have seen about Christ being the Saviour also applies to His Lordship. He IS the Lord, whether men believe it or not. Whether or not a man allows Christ to be his Lord is something else again.



Jesus Christ is the all-knowing, all-powerful Creator and Controller of the universe.


Colossians 1:16 says, "All things were created by Him and for Him." Verse 17 adds, ". . . by Him all things consist . . . (or, are held together)." God led Paul to write that Jesus Christ is the "blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords" I Tim. 6:15 . The One who was crucified on Calvary was none other than the Lord of Glory I Cor. 2:8.


Some may ask if Jesus was really LORD when men "by wicked hands crucified" Him. Absolutely! For He said, ". . . I lay down My life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself, I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again . . ."


John 10:17, 18.



Is He Lord now, though some men refuse to let Him rule in their lives? Certainly! The Bible says, ". . . know assuredly that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ (Messiah)." The time is coming when EVERYONE will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord


Phil. 2:10, 11.



THE ISSUE INVOLVED


Just as you receive the Saviour by faith and He becomes YOUR Saviour, when you allow Christ to control your life, He becomes YOUR LORD.




There is an increasing number of "evangelicals" today who are preaching that in order for a man to be saved he must not only receive Christ as his Saviour, but also must make Him absolute Lord and Master of his life.




This doctrine has been termed "Lordship salvation" and has absolutely no support from the Word of God. It is, in fact, another subtle way Satan has invented to get Bible-believing men to add works to salvation without, perhaps, their realizing it, and to do it in such a way that it sounds spiritual and good.




What could SOUND more spiritual or honoring to the Lord than statements like: "Either Christ is Lord of all, or He is not Lord at all. And if He is not Lord then He is not your Saviour. You are lost. You must turn over all the strings of your life to Him - then He will save you. Give your life to Him if you want to be truly saved." This is what is taught.



The truth of the matter is that salvation is not a "give" proposition at all; it is a "take" proposition. We don't give our hearts, lives, wills, or anything else to God in order to get Him to save us. This would be a form of bribery, a way of meriting or deserving to be saved - but God says salvation is "NOT OF OURSELVES" - and especially, it is not offering anything to God.




Salvation is receiving! We simply receive His Son.


John 1:12 says, "But as many as RECEIVED Him, to them gave He power (the right) to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His Name." God does the giving. We do the receiving.



God GAVE His Son


John 3:16.

God GIVES eternal life to those who trust His Son


John10:28.


God GIVES believers everything they need through His Son


Rom. 8:32.


Christ didn't come to have us sacrifice, or minister, or give our life to Him . . . but He came to be OUR sacrifice, to minister to US, and to give His life a ransom payment for OUR sin. "For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give His life a ransom for many"


Mark 10:45.



God offers to save us as sinners and doesn't require us to stop sinning and start obeying Him before He saves us. "But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."


I John 1:8 tells us that "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." No one can say that he stopped his sinning and THEN the Lord saved him. It is impossible. Be careful not to ask a person to do the impossible. Remember, God did not require it of you either. It is only after a person is saved that the Holy Spirit will give him the power to control his old nature and live a life pleasing to the Lord Phil. 2:13.



"Lordship salvation" is sometimes preached by men who are sincerely sick of the low spiritual level of the "average" Christian. So these men begin preaching a message they hope will bring more lasting and noticeable results. We can sympathize with these preachers. The spiritual condition of believers is often deplorable. But even a casual reading of the New Testament reveals that the early church had the same problems. See


I Cor. 3:1 - 4; 5:1 - 5; Gal. 4:8 - 11; Heb. 5:12-14; and II Thess. 3:6 - 15.



What did the early apostles do to combat this problem of spiritual weakness? Did they change the gospel message from "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" to "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, give up sin, and let Him rule over all the details of your life, and thou shalt be saved"? Of course not! That isn't the gospel! God doesn't give the Holy Spirit in response to a "grace plus works" message for salvation.



What did the apostles do? They emphasized the proper doctrines to meet the needs of the people. Such great life transforming truths as the Holy Spirit of God indwelling the believer, Christ's at-any-moment return, the eternal destiny of the lost, and the fact that "every one of us must give account of himself to God" - these were brought to bear on the children of God, and the Holy Spirit did His work of convicting and changing lives.



The problem does not lie with God's message of salvation. That is eternal and unchanging. It will always be sufficient to do what it is intended to do - to save souls. The problem is that God's people have not had the great Biblical truths applied to their lives, and so they are living at a spiritually low ebb.




If a person has to make Christ Lord of his life to be saved, why are most of the New Testament epistles filled with commands, warnings, exhortations, and pleas for the child of God to yield to Christ's Lordship? If "Lordship salvation" were true, these people wouldn't even be children of God! But it is apparent that they are, for throughout the epistles they are called "brethren," "saints," "believers," etc.




Now since it is obvious that God DOES exhort His own children to ALLOW Him to control them, to be their Lord, then it is just as obvious that they did not HAVE to make Him Lord in order to be saved. Consider these passages where God pleads with His own children to allow Him to control them:


Rom. 6:12, 13; 12:1, 2; Gal. 5:16; 3:1 - 3;Eph. 4:1 - 3; 6:10 - 17. When the pastor FEEDS his sheep they will not lack knowing how to be spiritual Jer. 23:4, 28; Acts 20:18 - 32;II Tim. 4:2.



CONSIDERATION OF


ROMANS 10:9

This is the primary verse used to try to prove the teaching of "Lordship salvation." The King James translation reads, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." A more literal rendering of part of this verse is, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord . . . thou shalt be saved." This is where the advocates of "Lordship salvation" get their basis for the doctrine.




However, notice several things about the context of this verse. First of all, Paul is writing primarily of unbelieving Israel. From a human standpoint, the Jews had a very real part in crucifying Christ; see


Acts 2:22, 23, 36; 4:10 - 12. Had they realized that Jesus was God Himself, they certainly would not have had a part in His death I Cor. 2:7, 8. Therefore, unbelieving Jews (and anyone else who wants to be saved) must own up to the fact that Jesus is the Lord - that He is God Himself - and all who call upon Him this way are saved Romans 10:9, 10, 13. The emphasis here is not upon making Jesus Lord of someone's life, but rather on recognizing His true identity - that He is God! In John 8:24 we find that if a person doesn't believe Christ is God, he will die in his sins.



Notice, too, that nowhere in the entire chapter of


Romans 10 are our lives in view. Instead, the emphasis is on His person. The issue here is not so much what l do, but who He is. The question is not one of service but of salvation. Never confuse the two. Salvation becomes ours when we trust Christ to SAVE us. Effective service is ours through OBEDIENCE. Salvation primarily involves the spirit and our eternal destiny; it is a gift John 5:24. Service involves the body and our present earthly life; it is labor for which rewards are given Rom. 12:1, 2; I Cor. 3:8 - 15; Luke 10:2.


The late Dr. M. R. DeHaan realized the importance of keeping salvation and service separate and said so well: "There is a vast difference between coming to Jesus for salvation and coming after Jesus for service. Coming to Christ makes one a believer, while coming after Christ makes one a disciple. All believers are not disciples. To become a believer one accepts the invitation of the Gospel. To be a disciple one obeys the challenge of a life of dedicated service and separation. Salvation comes through the sacrifice of Christ, but discipleship comes only by sacrifice of self and surrender to His call for devoted service. Salvation is free, but discipleship involves paying the price of a separated walk. Salvation cannot be lost, because it depends upon God's faithfulness, but discipleship can be lost, because it depends upon our faithfulness."

 

[james g]

REASONS FOR NOT TEACHING "LORDSHIP SALVATION"



1. It contradicts Scripture; therefore, it cannot be true. This one reason should settle the matter completely. If a doctrine is contrary to what God says, then it should be discarded immediately. See Rom. 3:4; Titus 2:7;Gal. 4:16.



2. It causes confusion and frustration to the unbeliever because it leaves the impression that salvation is by works. Therefore, the lost person often puts off accepting Christ until he is "ready" to turn his entire life over to the Lord. If the truth were presented to such a person, that salvation is free, but that after we are saved the Lord would work in our lives, perhaps he would trust Christ. Because of a "grace plus works" message he might NEVER trust Christ I Cor. 14:8,9.



3. This message CANNOT SAVE. If anyone gets saved during such a message, it will be because God has honored a portion of His Word IN SPITE of the unscriptural teaching brought into the message
Rom. 4:5; Gal. 5:1 - 4; Rom. 11:6; Isa. 55:8 - 11; Rom.10:17.



4. This message is accursed of God. Any message, no matter how "good" it may sound, is condemned by God unless it is His own salvation message. HIS message is the only one that saves. All others are of satanic or fleshly origin and curse men to hell. Therefore, God curses such a message Acts 4:12; John 14:6; Gal. 1:6 - 9; II Cor. 11:13-15; Gal. 3:1 - 3.



5. The person who preaches such a message is also accursed of God. Strong statement? Yes, but it is what God says. A man who preaches man's efforts have a part in salvation is leading people to hell, not heaven. Even if a man believes he is sincere, a wrong message still has the effects of the wrong message. Sincerity is no substitute for truth
Deut. 27:18; Prov. 17:15; 19:5; Jer. 23:1.



6. It, in effect, makes God a liar and the Bible untrue. If salvation really does come to those who turn over their lives to Christ, then God has been wrong all the time, throughout the entire Bible, because salvation is taught from Genesis to Revelation to come only through faith Titus 1:2, 3;Romans 3:4.



7. It causes even Christian preachers to further the error by thinking it might have some merit and preaching it themselves. One well-known Christian returned to America from some meetings he held in a foreign country and made a statement like this: "I really made it difficult for them to accept Christ over there. In America it's too easy to become a Christian, so I made it hard for them there. I told them accepting Christ meant turning from their sins, reading their Bibles, praying every day, giving up bad habits, and going to church regularly. And in spite of such a hard message hundreds made decisions for Christ."



WHAT A TRAGEDY! When people hear the true gospel after hearing this type of message, they are often unable to distinguish what is truth from what is error, and so many are left confused and unsaved.



8. The preaching of this error robs the one preaching it of reward. Paul said, "What is our . . . crown? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His coming?" The more we are able to win to Christ, the more souls will be in heaven, and so the more reward we will have. But those who preach a confused message hinder people from trusting Christ as their Saviour. Therefore, many souls are left unsaved, and so these preachers will not have the reward that they could have had
I Thess. 2:19, 20; II John 8; I John 2:28; I Cor. 9:18.



9. It confuses "laymen" believers and causes them to be ineffective in their witness. A girl recently asked, "I know that you are sincere and seem to have Scripture to back up what you teach, but my pastor is also sincere and teaches differently about salvation than you do. How do I know which one of you is right? How can I witness when I don't know what to tell people?"



A confused believer isn't going to be a faithful witness because he is going to be in constant turmoil over what to say. When he does try to witness, he will probably give out some mixture of "grace and works" that will not only confuse the lost person, but will also bring discouragement to the believer when he doesn't find people responding to his witness. When the gospel is given out, pure and simple, there will be results. The gospel is good news, and people respond to it.



10. It hinders the growth of the body of Christ. This is one of the results of the above (#9). When the believer's mouth is stopped (regardless of the reason), then the natural flow of fruit-bearing is stopped. Since Christ's body is composed of believers, the growth of His body is hindered when souls are not won John 15:8, 16 .



Incidentally, this will also stop the growth of the local church as well. It is so obvious when you stop to think about it. Why any preacher thinks this accursed "grace and works" message would in any way benefit anyone is a puzzle to me. Let's learn to THINK THINGS THROUGH!



11. It brings persecution to the believers who stand firm for the Scriptural message of "justification by faith." Those who are clear on the gospel are often accused of preaching "easy believism" or "cheap grace." Nothing could be further from the truth! Tell me, is a person ever saved by "hard" believism? Certainly no Christian I know believes in "cheap" grace! This is absurd. God's grace is precious. The blood of Jesus is precious. The price our Lord paid for our redemption was so high that nothing can be compared with its great value. Salvation is anything but cheap. It is free to us only because Jesus paid the full price. And that price was His precious life blood I Peter 1:18, 19.



God has gone through so MUCH to provide redemption for us! When I think that Jesus even gave His life - died such a horrible death - in order to provide eternal life as a free gift to those who would accept His payment by faith . . . and then someone comes along who professes to be a child of God and wants to make salvation HARD for the lost person . . . how the heart of our dear Saviour must break!



"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, where with he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" Heb. 10:29



I doubt seriously if anyone could carefully read the Gospel accounts of what Christ went through to purchase our salvation and ever again speak glibly of "cheap grace." No one is ever saved by "cheap grace." They are saved by PRICELESS, AMAZING GRACE!



Don't let Satan blind you to the fact that salvation REALLY IS FREE to man. Don't listen to him when he insinuates that "justification by faith" is a dangerous doctrine that will lead to "loose living." The greatest soulwinners who ever lived believed in salvation by grace through faith, and they preached it faithfully . . . and God blessed them and their ministry for it.



We have a miracle salvation - provided and preserved by God Himself! Let's give out the good news of this salvation simply and faithfully for His glory.



"But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord"I Cor. 1:30, 31 .
by Dr. A. Ray Stanford

 

[james g]

Do you believe you are saved because you earned/deserve it? Is it your efforts that keep you saved?

 

[B-A-C]

It seems there are certain things people have a hard time changing their minds about.
If my dad loved Fords and grew up with Fords, I'll probably never really be a Chevy man.
If the first computer I ever had was a Mac, I'll probably never really like Microsoft Windows.
If my first smart phone was an Android, I'll probably never like a Windows smart phone.

So it with the "grace alone" doctrine vs the "lordship doctrine".
It seems whatever you were exposed to during the first ( month to year?) you were saved, that's what you believe, and not much will ever change it.
Trying to explain the other point of view is often like explaining color to a blind man, it is harder concept to explain than I first thought.

I have found there are some varying degrees about this however.
On one extreme we have people that say salvation is the free gift of God through grace alone and there's nothing you can do to add to the gift.
(However if seems you can take away from the gift by attempting obedience).
This group could be divided up into smaller groups about whether the choice of salvation comes partially by self agency, or if it is entirely 100% up to God.
Some will go so far as to say any attempt at obedience to the commandments or law is salvation by works.
Some say that anything we try to do to earn salvation through self agency is an insult to Gods gift of salvation.
Some will even go so far as to say salvation is predestined and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
Almost everyone in this group believes in once saved always saved.

On the other extreme, we have the works alone crowd, but I would have to say these people aren't really Christians.
They aren't depending on the grace of Jesus, they are depending on their own ability to meet Gods criteria of righteousness.
This is a lot like Judaism. These people could also be called Armenians, or Legalists.
Salvation depends entirely upon my ability to keep the whole law.

In the middle we have lordship doctrine. It isn't grace alone, but it isn't works alone either.
They believe no one will get to heaven without the grace of Jesus, however faith and grace alone aren't enough.
They believe repentance and obedience are also required. Denial of self is required.
This group could further be divided into smaller groups about whether the ability to repent come entirely from God/Jesus/Holy Spirit
or whether it comes entirely from self agency, or whether it comes from a combination of the two (self and God).
This group believes we should strive to keep the commandments, but grace kicks in when we fail.
Almost everyone is this group believes we can lose our salvation if we try hard enough. (very few think you can lose it by accident).
In fact many believe that salvation is tied to sanctification and it's an on-going process. As opposed to the grace only view
that once you are saved, you are as saved as you are ever going to be. This group also believes that it is necessary to be
"re-filled" with the Holy Spirit from time to time, and it isn't a "one time" thing. This group also believes that repentance
and confession of sin isn't a one-time thing, but is required every so often (as often as you are convicted of sin).

This may end up being a futile exercise, but I wonder what scriptures there are to support the different points of view.
(I doubt there is much scripture to support works alone in the New Testament).

But I wonder how grace alone stands up to lordship salvation? I readily admit I tend to be a lordship, imparted righteousness believer.
There may even be other points of view about this that I have missed, but it's been my experience this covers most mainstream Christians.

I will throw in the antimonianists, there have been a few here on TalkJesus, they don't really meet the requirements for any of the groups above.
They believe in grace alone, but also believe you can lose your salvation. There is no moral law, and there is no sin, rather the only sin you can commit
is unbelief. Adultery, murder, rape, etc.. are bad things we shouldn't do, but they aren't sin and God won't hold them against us.
Obedience and repentance are not required to be saved according to this doctrine, only belief in Jesus.
My personal opinion is that this is very close to the grace only doctrine.

It's interesting if you go to some sites such as wikipedia, they will say what separates Protestants from Roman Catholics is the five solas.
Yet the majority of Protestant don't believe in the five solas, Pentecostals, Evangelicals, and Wesleyans don't believe in grace/faith alone.
They believe Lordship (repentance and obedience) are required for salvation.

Another way to perhaps explain this is...
Only Jesus can give rubies, but gold comes from our work and effort.
Some believe rubies are required to get into Disneyland.
Some believe gold is required to get into Disneyland.
Some believe both and required to get into Disneyland.

(Maybe Disney isn't a good example, but best I could do on short notice )

 

[norapture]

There was a dad who had two sons, that lived with him it in the country. They loved their father very much. Well one morning they gat up as always , ready to help
their dad, so they ask what shall
we do today. Dad replys I need the
roof on the barn repaired, its going
to rain today, so it would be nice if
the two of you would do this for
me. So the sons reply sure thing
dad , we will get right to it. So both
sons began to repair the roof. As
they was working on the roof , a
storm came up. The dad look out
to see if they was coming in . But
they was still working on the roof.
The dad shouts out get off the
roof, and come in or lighting is
going to strike y'all. Well the elder
son says to his brother , its ok we
will be safe. The younger son
replays back, don't you believe
dad. The elder son says well of
course I believe dad. So the
younger son goes in the house.
But the elder continue to work on
the barn roof. So the dad and
younger son heard a loud thunder,
and seen a flash of lighting. And
they look out to see about the
elder son, he had been struck by
lighting, and laying on the ground.
They ran to him, and to their
surprise he was still alive. They
took him in and took care of him.


So which of the two sons, do you suppose really believe their dad about the lighting ?

 

[B-A-C]

It seems the scriptures used most often to support grace alone are in Ephesians 2 and Galatians 3.

Eph 2:8; For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10; For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

The grace alone doctrine would translate verse 8 as "saved through grace ALONE".
The lordship doctrine would translate verse 9 as "not as a result of works ALONE".
It's interesting the very next verse (10) talks about works.

Gal 3:1; You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
Gal 3:2; This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Gal 3:3; Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
Gal 3:4; Did you suffer so many things in vain--if indeed it was in vain?
Gal 3:5; So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Gal 3:6; Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Gal 3:11; Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
Gal 3:12; However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."
Gal 3:14; in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The disagreement with this passage often revolves around what "faith" and "the law" actually are.
The grace only doctrine would say it's any part of the law at all, priests, sacrifice, circumcision, commandments, etc...
The lordship doctrine would say it's everything in the law except the commandments repeated in the NT and anything else God personally tells you to do.
The grace only doctrine would say faith is simply belief in something.
The lordship doctrine would say faith is an action, and requires an "act of faith". For example Gal 3:6; says Abraham's faith was reckoned as righteousness.
But in Hebrews 11, it says Abraham's actions are what proved his faith.

Heb 11:8; By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going.
Heb 11:9; By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise;
Heb 11:17; By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; ( also Jas 2:21-22; )

 

[B-A-C]

Galatians 5; is another passage that is often presented tin two parts, but I personally feel the chapter should be taken as a whole.

Gal 5:1; It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
Gal 5:2; Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
Gal 5:3; And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
Gal 5:4; You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5; For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.
Gal 5:6; For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

This passage seems to be saying don't obey any of the law, yet it specifically mentions circumcision.
However the last half of this chapter seemingly contradicts the first half.

Gal 5:13; For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
Gal 5:14; For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." ...(also see Matt 22:37-40; Rom 13:9-10; )
Gal 5:15; But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.
Gal 5:16; But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
Gal 5:17; For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.
Gal 5:18; But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
Gal 5:19; Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20; idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21; envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22; But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23; gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:24; Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:25; If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
Gal 5:26; Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.

Verse 14 goes back to keeping the commandments or least one specific commandment.
Verse 18 says "IF" we are led by the Spirit we aren't under the law.
(under what part of the law? The obligation to keep the commandments? or the penalty of death for not keeping the commandments?)
Then verses 19 through 23 talk about how to tell if you are led by the Spirit or led by the flesh.
Yet I know some people who call themselves Christians who are immoral (fornicate) have sensuality (pursue fleshly desires)
idolatry (I love God, but I love fill in the blank more), sorcery (drugs such as marijuana), envy (I wish I had a car like that) and it seems drunkenness and carousing is
a big part of their lives. When you press them about it, the answer is "I'm saved by grace alone, not by what I do". Yet the passage above says if you do these
things you are led by the flesh, so you are still under the law.

 

[ATP]

The late Dr. M. R. DeHaan realized the importance of keeping salvation and service separate and said so well: "There is a vast difference between coming to Jesus for salvation and coming after Jesus for service. Coming to Christ makes one a believer, while coming after Christ makes one a disciple. All believers are not disciples. To become a believer one accepts the invitation of the Gospel. To be a disciple one obeys the challenge of a life of dedicated service and separation. Salvation comes through the sacrifice of Christ, but discipleship comes only by sacrifice of self and surrender to His call for devoted service. Salvation is free, but discipleship involves paying the price of a separated walk. Salvation cannot be lost, because it depends upon God's faithfulness, but discipleship can be lost, because it depends upon our faithfulness."

Wow. That was really well said. You're right. We can lose our fellowship with God because of willful sin but never our relationship. We need to pray over our own sins, so our Lord can hear us. - ATP

 

[B-A-C]

Wow. That was really well said. You're right. We can lose our fellowship with God because of willful sin but never our relationship. We need to pray over our own sins, so our Lord can hear us. - ATP

I am just curious, what the difference between fellowship and relationship is? We are relation by blood? We are friends by choice?
Can we be saved without knowing Jesus? Without knowing His voice?