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Liars Are Born That Way

Active
Ps 58:3 . .The wicked are estranged from the womb; these who speak lies go
astray from birth.

This is pretty serious because the Bible says that there is a marvelous city in the
works wherein is not allowed dishonesty.

Rev 22:15 . . Outside are . . . everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Plus, natural-born liars are destined for fiery termination.

Rev 21:8 . . All liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and
brimstone, which is the second death.

Now, I'm willing to bet that there are more natural-born liars on earth than LGBTQ,
yet Christians readily rake LGBTQ over the coals while tolerating dishonesty as if it
were somehow acceptable in comparison; yet both are in the same boat headed for
the same destination.
_
 
Active
1John 2:2 . . He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the
sins of the whole world.

A forgiven liar will continue to be dishonest because they were born that way.

"Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good
who are accustomed to doing evil." (Jer 13:23)

What is there to be done about that?
_
 
Last edited:
Active
1John 2:2 . . He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the
sins of the whole world.

A forgiven liar will continue to be dishonest because they were born that way. What is
there to be done about that?

Well; I think we can be fairly certain that dishonesty is neither tolerated nor
practiced in Heaven's society; which is a curious thing because the Bible says that
every man is dishonest; so the question is; How does anybody at all make the cut?
I mean; if people were dishonest down here, then would they not continue to be
dishonest up there unless something were done to rid themselves of themselves?

God has devised a way to do that very thing by means of a special circumcision.

Col 2:11-12 . . In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful
nature-- not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the
circumcision done by Christ --having been buried with him in baptism and raised
with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

In a nutshell: although believing liars typically continue to be dishonest down here,
they don't take that proclivity with them when they pass on; instead, the special
circumcision makes it possible for them to part company with their unacceptable
tendencies and they go into eternity completely free of human nature's
weaknesses: a benefit of the regeneration that Jesus spoke of at John 3:3-12.
_
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings,

it is it really that easy?

Surely the same goes for everyone who 'believes'?

Is there more to believing than 'believing'?

I do not for a moment cast aside the Mercy of God and His Grace.... but is the "nutshell" a universal nut that only God can crack?


Bless you ....><>
 
Member
What is your point in all of this, because you seem to be going from here to there and then over the hill and then under the hill. What is your purpose for posting this?
 
Active
Ps 58:3 . .The wicked are estranged from the womb; these who speak lies go
astray from birth.

This is pretty serious because the Bible says that there is a marvelous city in the
works wherein is not allowed dishonesty.

Rev 22:15 . . Outside are . . . everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Plus, natural-born liars are destined for fiery termination.

Rev 21:8 . . All liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and
brimstone, which is the second death.

Now, I'm willing to bet that there are more natural-born liars on earth than LGBTQ,
yet Christians readily rake LGBTQ over the coals while tolerating dishonesty as if it
were somehow acceptable in comparison; yet both are in the same boat headed for
the same destination.
_
So you're saying that there are people born who are automatically destined for hell and no chance for redemption....That DOES go against the Word...You need to study that subject and not build a doctrine on one verse.
 
Loyal
This from a thread about homosexuality, but I think the concept applies to liars as well.


We are all born with sinful tendencies.
 
Member
This from a thread about homosexuality, but I think the concept applies to liars as well.


We are all born with sinful tendencies.
A slight correction there...we are all born with a sin nature, but no one is born a "sinner." That is false calvinistic doctrine that Scripture does not support. I know people even as a teenager that because of the way they were brought up by their parents, they abhorred the thought of telling a lie...and I also know people who lie practically every time they open their mouths.
 
Loyal
I know people even as a teenager that because of the way they were brought up by their parents,
The classic definition of conservative and liberal - doesn't mean what the current definitions are.

Conservatives believe man is born evil (into sinful nature) and learns to be good through outside influences (i.e. Jesus, the Holy Spirit, good upbringing, etc..)
Liberals believe man is basically good, and learns to be evil through outside influences (satan, the flesh, bad upbringing, etc.)
 
Member
The classic definition of conservative and liberal - doesn't mean what the current definitions are.

Conservatives believe man is born evil (into sinful nature) and learns to be good through outside influences (i.e. Jesus, the Holy Spirit, good upbringing, etc..)
Liberals believe man is basically good, and learns to be evil through outside influences (satan, the flesh, bad upbringing, etc.)
First...no one to my knowledge used the words "conservative" or "liberal" in this conversation until you just did.

Second...your definitions are highly skewed...you really need to go to a dictionary.

Third, I go by what Scripture teaches, not what people twist them to mean in their own personal theories. Scripture teaches that man is born holy and righteous, made in the likeness of God (which refers to his character), and that man chooses to sin at a point in his life because he is born with a sin nature. That sin nature does not make man inherently sinful, but it does lead him into sin. Then, if that person gets saved, he returns to his original created state of righteous and holiness.

If we go by "liberal" as it has to do with Christianity, then liberalism is part of the apostate church. There is nothing "liberal" in Scripture as to that definition.
 
Loyal
Second...your definitions are highly skewed...you really need to go to a dictionary.
The 1955 websters dictionary is where I got those definitions, as I said, they have changed.

Scripture teaches that man is born holy and righteous, made in the likeness of God (which refers to his character)
Rom 5:12; Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

If we already have the image and character of God, why do we need to be conformed and transformed into it?

Rom 8:29; For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
2 Cor 3:18; But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

God is sinless, we are not. If you have a sinless character like God, why do you need a savior?

Psa 51:5; Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.
 
Loyal
First...no one to my knowledge used the words "conservative" or "liberal" in this conversation until you just did.

Second...your definitions are highly skewed...you really need to go to a dictionary.

Third, I go by what Scripture teaches, not what people twist them to mean in their own personal theories. Scripture teaches that man is born holy and righteous, made in the likeness of God (which refers to his character), and that man chooses to sin at a point in his life because he is born with a sin nature. That sin nature does not make man inherently sinful, but it does lead him into sin. Then, if that person gets saved, he returns to his original created state of righteous and holiness.

If we go by "liberal" as it has to do with Christianity, then liberalism is part of the apostate church. There is nothing "liberal" in Scripture as to that definition.
I was just reading 2Cor chap 8 and it does say liberal in a good way.
 
Member
The 1955 websters dictionary is where I got those definitions, as I said, they have changed.

Point taken.



; Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

If we already have the image and character of God, why do we need to be conformed and transformed into it?

Nothing that I stated contradicts Rom. 5:12...death spread to all men BECAUSE ALL SINNED. As to your question, I answered that in my post...because at some point in everyone's life history, beginning with the age of accountability, we all chose to sin. When we chose to sin that image and character became marred. Salvation is the first step to reclaiming that holy and righteous image.


; For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

2 Cor 3:18; But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

God is sinless, we are not. If you have a sinless character like God, why do you need a savior?

I did not say that "we have," I said that we were created with, that is not the same thing. You, like we all, were born with a sin nature but free from sin until you actually sinned for the first time. Until you sinned, you were perfect in God's eyes, perfect because He created you in the womb with holiness and righteousness. When you first sinned, you destroyed that holy and righteous likeness. And - notice that I did not say you are sinless - I said the equivalence of that you were born sinless, but you are not sinless today.


; Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

Yes, the quintessential calvinist verse trying to prove we are guilty of Adam's sin, which is not Biblical. First, while Psalm 51 is called by translations as a psalm of David, there is no actual evidence that it is, and most informed scholars agree that it was written during Isaiah's time because the walls of Jerusalem were never broken or destroyed in David's time (among other historical evidences to its time of being written). Also, if this was really written by David after his episode with Bathsheba, it was not God alone that David sinned against...

What does that have to do with verse 5? Scholars believe that this psalm was written from the perspective of Israel, not David. In iniquity God brought Israel forth from Egypt, etc. Basically, this verse does not give any credit to the idea that a human being is born with sin, nor do any of the others that calvinists use in effort to support their false doctrine actually support it.

Blessings.
 
Member
I was just reading 2Cor chap 8 and it does say liberal in a good way.
LOL! I was actually thinking about verses where the word "liberal" are used, but since that 'liberal' is different from that which the conversation was about, I didn't say anything about them!
 
Active
Third, I go by what Scripture teaches, not what people twist them to mean in their own personal theories. Scripture teaches that man is born holy and righteous, made in the likeness of God (which refers to his character), and that man chooses to sin at a point in his life because he is born with a sin nature. That sin nature does not make man inherently sinful, but it does lead him into sin. Then, if that person gets saved, he returns to his original created state of righteous and holiness.
What is your Scripture backing for the above statement?
 
Member
What is your Scripture backing for the above statement?
I'm glad someone asked...

Genesis 1:26-27
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Image refers to our physical appearance (when we search the Scriptures, we find that Yahweh has a head, two arms and hands, two legs and feet, and a main trunk like we have...because we were created in His image); while "likeness" addresses His holiness and righteousness - His holy and righteous character. He created us with this same character, just as verse 26 states. Calvinism teaches that when Adam sinned, this likeness was lost in the human race - which is false (like 99% of calvinism), because Scripture teaches otherwise...

Ecclesiastes 7:29
Behold, I have found only this: that God created man upright, but they have sought out many devices.

Solomon says by the Holy Spirit that God created mankind upright (righteous), and this is in the present tense. When the ***** hits the egg and the human spirit forms, that zygote is holy and righteous from conception. A human being is not sinful until he/she reaches the age of accountability (where they know and understand the difference between right and wrong) and he/she chooses to do wrong...

Job 33:26
then man prays to God, and He accepts him; he sees His face with a shout of joy, and He restores to man his righteousness.

The righteousness under the OT was the same righteousness that man was born with; today, in Christ, we receive the imputed righteousness of Christ...for a higher purpose. Man is born today as holy and righteous, which is why Jesus said...

Matthew 18:3
and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:14
but Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven."

If children are born sinful, then they are not that which "belongs the kingdom of heaven."

Blessings!
 
Loyal
I wonder... do all children go to heaven?

1Cor 7:14; For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.

Which brings up another question... are all children's names in the Book of Life? ( if so, do some get erased later )
 
Member
I wonder... do all children go to heaven?

1Cor 7:14; For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.

Which brings up another question... are all children's names in the Book of Life? ( if so, do some get erased later )
Children who die before they reach the age of accountability, who die before they can sin, go to heaven. We cannot base a doctrine upon an obscure verse like I Cor. 7:14 (for example, there are as many interpretations of this verse as there are commentators). My personal understanding of this verse is that Paul addresses that the Jewish Christians would look upon the children of an unsaved parent as being unclean because one of the parents is unclean - but that was a cultural deal, not what Scripture says anywhere.

As for the book of life question, there are two possible answers - depending upon how God enters names in the book of life. If He only enters names of those who are redeemed, then no...but if He enters the names of all who are born, and then takes them out as they sin, then yes. We do not know how God works the book of life, therefore we cannot make any kind of definitive answer. Since God blots out the names of people who were once saved who fell away, that gives us a clue, but not a definitive answer.

Blessings
 
Active
I wonder... do all children go to heaven?
According to John 3:3-8, nobody is allowed citizenship in the kingdom of God
without they first undergo regeneration.

(There's some question as to whether there's a difference between Heaven and the
kingdom of God.)

Also, children don't stay underage forever; they eventually grow up to be mature
adults, viz: they become accountable.
_
 
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