KJV and hymns vs. other translations and modern worship

[InChrist]

I recently stumbled upon a post on another forum where somebody stated that the KJV was "the only true bible in the english language" and said that "it's time we stop all the unchristian praise and worship and get back to the old fashioned worship that magnifies Christ rather than self."
i was just wondering what side you take in this controversy that seems to be tearing today's church apart. here is my opinion:

Not everyone understands the KJV. Other bibles were created to make it easier to understand. And God has given us other forms of worship. Other forms of worship music that were meant to bring glory to HIS NAME..not just hymns.
If you ask me, (again, this is just my opinion), I don't think most hymns convey the need for a personal, intimate relationship with Christ. They do have a good message, and if you want to worship with them, I say go right ahead. But don't call other forms of worship music "unchristian."

 

[Goose]

I've heard the basic arguments for KJV only. And although I'm not a fan of all the modern translations, I don't think it can be accurately said that the KJV is the only true word of God in english. The KJV is one of the versions I use when studying the Bible, but I haven't come across anything yet to suggest the modern translations are wrong.

As for worship - Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 1 Corinthians 10:31

The only thing is, to make sure you really are glorifying God, and you don't just believe it is.


But to say God can only be worshipped musically through hymns is I would think, a sorry limit to how greatly God can be magnified in so many ways. Does God not look at the heart and not the appearance by which men see?

Also, the NT doesn't limit musical worship to hymns, it specifically speaks of spiritual songs as well - Ep 5:19, Col 3:16

 

[eddieb]

the king james is probably the most acurate to the original texts. however the first bible God gave me was the cev contemporary english version which is actually a paraphrase not a translation. but if you flip[ thru the pages you will see underlines and underlines and side notes and on and on. i have so many good memories with this bible so i have kept it and sometimes i refer back to my notes or just look thru it and reminise on what many christians call "the honeymoon period" of new believers.

its Gods Word. and it is alive. and IT became flesh and walked amoung us. just let God give you or lead you to the bible he wants for you.

on the music side of things the older "traditional" hyms do not do much but the newer contemporary praise and worship stirs me inside. the church i go to does the hyms thing. the older generation says the hyms is what they like. although they talk about bringing newer music in which makes me happy. ive prayed just put the music in the church that will lift you up Lord. whatever you want.


each one of us is a PART of the body.

 

[farouk]

I do appreciate the King James a lot.

Just because there are ppl out there who say all sorts of things about the King James that are not accurate about it, this doesn't mean that the King James itself becomes less accurate because of some of its readers.

It's been around a long while, and actually the edition which most ppl use is of 1769, although the first edition was in 1611.

Take care.

 

[jiggyfly]

the king james is probably the most acurate to the original texts. however the first bible God gave me was the cev contemporary english version which is actually a paraphrase not a translation. but if you flip[ thru the pages you will see underlines and underlines and side notes and on and on. i have so many good memories with this bible so i have kept it and sometimes i refer back to my notes or just look thru it and reminise on what many christians call "the honeymoon period" of new believers.

its Gods Word. and it is alive. and IT became flesh and walked amoung us. just let God give you or lead you to the bible he wants for you.

on the music side of things the older "traditional" hyms do not do much but the newer contemporary praise and worship stirs me inside. the church i go to does the hyms thing. the older generation says the hyms is what they like. although they talk about bringing newer music in which makes me happy. ive prayed just put the music in the church that will lift you up Lord. whatever you want.


each one of us is a PART of the body.

Let me get this right, you actually believe that the bible became flesh and walked among us????

 

[stephen]

When I was a young man......early twenties, full of energy and desire to serve Jesus. I started a fellowship just five miles from my mothers home, with a Sunday School.

It prospered and became a fellowship of believers in Jesus. We put up a building and worshipped Jesus. Became part of the A.o G fellowship in England. This year a new building has been erected, far superior, and a prosperous fellowship

I invited an Scottish Evangelist to hold meetings. He came and we were blessed.

I recall one night in the sixties, at the time of the introduction of the N.I.V., he stood to preach, announced his scripture, and said that he was reading from the Authorised Version.......and he was doing that because it was authorised.......If you could hear the Scots brougue you would smile.....

Would be wonderful if Queen Elizabeth 2nd were to authorise similar.

I like the A.V. Because I was brought up reading it. I read other versions, and at this time I am reading the bible through in a year, using the New Translation Version, and I am delighted to see some passages in new light

 

[farouk]

The Bible is the written Word.

The Lord Jesus is the living and eternal Word made flesh.

'Hail the incarnate Deity,
Pleased as Man with man to dwell,
Jesus, our Emmanuel.'

 

[eddieb]

Let me get this right, you actually believe that the bible became flesh and walked among us????

uhh yes. the bible is called the Word of God. or The Living Word. one time in jail as i was reading the bible i could see light coming out of the letters. now for scripture:

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

more scripture:
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

dont get what im saying twisted. im not saying the pages and cover of the book came to life. you should spend some time studing the first chapter of the gospel of John, in revelations where it talks about Jesus/The Word Of God and the first few chapters of genisis even.(let there be light, and there was light)

 

[farouk]

e:

It's a wonderful, priceless privilege to be able to feed day by day on God's Word.

My wife and I do so daily together, with prayer, by His grace.

uhh yes. the bible is called the Word of God. or The Living Word. one time in jail as i was reading the bible i could see light coming out of the letters. now for scripture:

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

more scripture:
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

dont get what im saying twisted. im not saying the pages and cover of the book came to life. you should spend some time studing the first chapter of the gospel of John, in revelations where it talks about Jesus/The Word Of God and the first few chapters of genisis even.(let there be light, and there was light)

 

[Strypes]

I gave my heart and life to Jesus in 1979. I was blessed to have christian friends that listened to Keith Green, Second Chapter of Acts, Michael W. Smith, Amy Grant, Steven Curtis Chapman, Mylon Lefever, etc. I was also blessed to be living in a city that had a contemporary Christian radio station.

In the summer of 1981, I was a student summer missionary for the home mission board of the southern baptist convention (to pittsburgh). They had a contemporary christian radio station that I loved to listen to. The songs encouraged me and gave me a song in my heart that helped me endure during the 16 hour days. I know the Holy Spirit used that music to encourage and comfort me.

Part of my duties was to take visiting church mission groups for a tour of the interesting sites in pittsburgh. One day we were loading the van and I changed the radio station from a secular station to MY station. The song that was playing was "Trumpet of Jesus" by the Imperials. (you can find it on youtube)..

The teenagers and a couple of the mothers and I were singing along with it and having a wonderful moment until the pastor of the group came onboard and immediately turned the radio OFF and shouted in a very mean and indignant voice. "Who turned on that DEVIL music?"

I said "I changed the station" and He went off on me like you would not imagine. Belittled me and calling me all sorts demeaning things and preached all the way to the incline on how satan was using me to lead the youth astray.. bah bah bah..

Here are the lyrics to that "Devil music"

I listen to the trumpet of jesus
While the world hears a different sound
I march to the drumbeat of god almighty
While the others just wander around
I'm a member of the holy ghost traveling band
We're moving on up to a better land
I hear the voice of a supernatural singer
Like only those who know him can

(verse 1
One sweet sound makes
A whole world of difference
When the world seems indifferent to you
His melody of love calls you to be great
When marking time was all you thought you could do
So if you've been playing all your days by ear
Never knowing what your song was to be
Then pull up a chair, let down your hair
And take a few lessons from me

(chorus)

(verse 2
A spiritual fanfare has a sound all it's own
At the birth of a lasting song
It's been two thousand years since jesus was born
And still the celebration goes on
If you feel the need to get your life in tune
'cause you're tired of the derdge every day
Then turn yourself around,
Put your feet on the ground
And just hear what i have to say

(chorus)


I was to later become a Stryper fan..
(you would never guess that huh?)

I was given a "Good News Bible" shortly after I was saved. Through it I learned God's voice. I have a king james bible and currently my bible of choice is the English Standard Version. I don't think that the version is what matters because any bible is only a book with out the Holy Spirit.

 

[jiggyfly]

uhh yes. the bible is called the Word of God. or The Living Word. one time in jail as i was reading the bible i could see light coming out of the letters. now for scripture:

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

more scripture:
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

dont get what im saying twisted. im not saying the pages and cover of the book came to life. you should spend some time studing the first chapter of the gospel of John, in revelations where it talks about Jesus/The Word Of God and the first few chapters of genisis even.(let there be light, and there was light)

These scriptures are not referring to the bible, they are referring to Jesus the Son of God. The fact is the bible ( the compilation of the 66 books of canonized scripture) did not exist until the 4th century.

 

[farouk]

Wrong; all the NT books carry the authority of an apotles, except the book that is Apostolic history: the Acts of the Apostles.

These scriptures are not referring to the bible, they are referring to Jesus the Son of God. The fact is the bible ( the compilation of the 66 books of canonized scripture) did not exist until the 4th century.

 

[jiggyfly]

Wrong; all the NT books carry the authority of an apotles, except the book that is Apostolic history: the Acts of the Apostles.

And... so what does that have to do with my statement that the bible did not exist until the 4th century??? Scriture was not compiled into the bible or biblia before the 4th century and this is an historical fact. I did not challenge the authenticity of any of the books or letters contained in the bible just the date at which they were compiled into the bible.

 

[farouk]

j:

It's a question of authority.

The compilers did not confer authority onto Holy Writ. Rather, people, before and since, recognized their inherent authority as the Word of God.

I'm not trying to be awkward, but there is a distinction.

And... so what does that have to do with my statement that the bible did not exist until the 4th century??? Scriture was not compiled into the bible or biblia before the 4th century and this is an historical fact. I did not challenge the authenticity of any of the books or letters contained in the bible just the date at which they were compiled into the bible.

 

[jiggyfly]

j:

It's a question of authority.

The compilers did not confer authority onto Holy Writ. Rather, people, before and since, recognized their inherent authority as the Word of God.

I'm not trying to be awkward, but there is a distinction.

I am still failing to see how that applies to the bible, a compilation of assorted canonized scripture texts that were put together in the fourth century A.D.

 

[musiclover123]

After reading all posts in this thread, it looks as though nothing was said about the written Word being flesh and walking around, but the Word, the Living Word. It is written that in the beginning the Word was with God, and the Word was God, as well as the Word became flesh. I don't think there is any argument that the written Word as we have it in the Bible did not exist yet, because we had the Living Word in the flesh with us, but as Jesus is obviously not in bodily form on the earth during this time, we have been given the Written word, along with the Holy Spirit, to guide and teach us.

Now to actually address the original topic of this post, i believe that other translations besides the KJV can be used, although it is always good to have a KJV to refer back to in original wording. Newer translations make it much easier to understand, and even if the wording varies, the meaning is still there. As for music, any genre can and has been used to honor God. By telling a person that the music they prefer cannot be used to worship with, their culture is being condemned. Jesus did not come to condemn, but to redeem, and all music can be redeemed for the glory of Jesus. The lyrics are much more powerful then the music itself is anyway, and i know i would rather see people listening to modern christian music that has lyrics giving glory to God rather than some secular music that is giving glory to the world instead.

 

[farouk]

j:

If as you say it is canonical, meaning the canon of Scripture as originally given, then for it to be original in the 4th Century would seem to me to be a contradiction in terms.

We are talking about Divine authorship here.

I am still failing to see how that applies to the bible, a compilation of assorted canonized scripture texts that were put together in the fourth century A.D.

 

[jiggyfly]

j:

If as you say it is canonical, meaning the canon of Scripture as originally given, then for it to be original in the 4th Century would seem to me to be a contradiction in terms.

We are talking about Divine authorship here.

But thats not what I said nor was it my point, I said the bible, not scripture. The scriptures were letters and scrolls in which some were collected and compiled into book form which is the bible that we read today but the first century believers had no bible but they did have assorted letters (the new testament scriptures) and they had the septuagint (the old testament) if they could read. but no one had a bible until the fourth century when the scriptures that were approved were compiled into one book.

 

[Boanerges]

This is just my view on this issue.

These Words (the scriptures) were spoken by the Spirit of God through men.
Yes the first century churches each seemed to have a different list of what they considered cannon and it took a while for this Book to come together. But is there any doubt that they fit far to perfectly, have a harmony that a multitude of authors spanning centuries of time and displaced over thousands of miles could never duplicate?
Does anyone doubt that He was able to get them to us just as He wanted them?
If anyone doubts the Bible is the Word of God I suggest they discard their Bibles. They are either His Word to us or useless, error ridden and anti-christ in nature
Respectfully I can see no middle ground on this issue.

 

[jiggyfly]

This is just my view on this issue.

These Words (the scriptures) were spoken by the Spirit of God through men.
Yes the first century churches each seemed to have a different list of what they considered cannon and it took a while for this Book to come together. But is there any doubt that they fit far to perfectly, have a harmony that a multitude of authors spanning centuries of time and displaced over thousands of miles could never duplicate?
Does anyone doubt that He was able to get them to us just as He wanted them?
If anyone doubts the Bible is the Word of God I suggest they discard their Bibles. They are either His Word to us or useless, error ridden and anti-christ in nature
Respectfully I can see no middle ground on this issue.

Are you referring to translations of the scriptures as well?