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John's Message to the Churches of Asia - Stay Home?

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Active
Hi guys,

I have noticed a number of TJ'ers quite openly stating that they no longer go to a church. What? The issues they raise fall into two categories. Some believe that the church is not worthy of them, others recount bad experiences of church.

You can scour the Bible from cover to cover but you will not find any justification for these positions, quite the reverse Hebrews 10:25. There really is no good excuse for not assembling together, t'was a time when the housebound or bedridden couldn't, but now the Internet can overcome.

We are a God given resource for each other, by staying at home we deny ourselves, we deny each other of that resource. Other resources are the Bible and the Holy Spirit, we're snubbing God in discarding this gift in the same way that some don't bother with the Bible others have no perceptible experience of the Holy Spirit. The power of corporate prayer is truly amazing, I have experienced it for myself when facing dire situations that looked like no way out. The Apostle Peter did to in a much more dramatic situation Acts 12:5-17. Give me another experience that's like being part of a church filled with loving praising people worshipping the almighty creator God!

To say that a church doesn't meet your high standards so you stay home reminds me of the vintage sports car I bought for my wife's 21st (many moons ago). It was a soft top but the roof leaked so when she set off the passenger's feet got soaked with all the accumulated water on the glove shelf - aaargh! The damned thing broke down more times than I care to remember, I used to tell her to slow down, then we won't have as far to walk when it breaks down :sob: and yet, when she had to trade it in because she couldn't fit behind the wheel due to pregnancy, she wept buckets! A church doesn't have to be perfect to give you the benefits, blessings and experiences that God is desperately wanting to share with you. Like the old precept goes, if you do find a perfect church, stay away, you'll only make it imperfect.

The same goes for the church where your experiences there haven't aways been positive. Rather than vote with your feet challenge bad behaviour and politely and with love tell the offender you find that what they have said / done has offended or upset you.

If you're not happy with your church, pray for it continuously, get involved, try to change things from within, whilst being open to the idea that maybe on this issue the church is right and you're wrong.

Back to the title, the Apostle John writes 7 letters to 7 churches in Asia (modern day Turkey) in Revelation chapters 2 - 3. Only two of the churches, Smyrna and Philadelphia get a clean bill of health, the rest are a pretty mixed back of good and bad points with the exception of Laodicia that gets quite a castigating but none, no none, get told to close down and go home. From the letter to Laodicea we get those wonderful verses:
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. Revelation 3:20‭-‬21 NKJV

"Instead of going to church, I go on www.talkjesus.com". Errr no, TJ's not a church, it's a forum. We exchange ideas, ask questions, share thoughts and ideas, it's not a church. Love this place but sorry it's not a substitute for a church.

Hope and pray one or two stay at homers are challenged by this post.

God bless you.
 
Active
I don't think the true "children of God" who are "born of the Spirit of God", "Born of Heaven" who have become a "New Creature" "the Temple of The Living God" who dwells in each one of us that are in Christ hates anything in the world whether they are a mutiude of churches, governments, any kind of institutes. Or cults , But they Hungry for a certain type of "Truth" we can only digest and some truth's it is impossible to ingest. Within the regions of the world we live in. Oranges does not grow in our back yard in "Alaska", and the grocery store is not around the corner but maybe 50 miles away and the cost of snowmobile fuel is expensive and how can you buy
oranges at such a price when you hunt for food it self.
Christianity's picture it has given to most of Africa is the" prosperity gospel"! The more you give themore God will give you!
The Prosperity Gospel or [wesrern world] christianity has become something different than a life of "sanctification and Holiness"! In light of "Holy Scripture"! And those of us who are considered "orthrodox christians". "The saints of old"

There are still those who will cast the Green three leggit stool! "Jenny Geddes" of "Scotland"!

Through out the whole world people are leaving and refusing to go to a "church" building and they say they still love God but cannot stand the churches. And since they stop going to church they read and know their "bibles" more and a better relationship with "Jesus Christ and God the Father". Are these people lying And not telling the " Truth" ! Surely my mother wasn't i spoke with her mostly every day! And obsevered the many bibles she wornout and how she start talking about God once she stop going. And she and all of her 7 siblings from childhood had a relationship with God, and my Paternal Grandfather parents and his aunt was "Reformed Baptist" missionaries to The Canadian Indiana Tribes in Canada. And I didn't understand my Grandfather ways when it pertain to the American Baptist Churches and churches untili I became a Reformed Studeut myself and study the Americas and their introduction to what we call christianity and the mission of The Church.


And years ago over 30 years i would say, i heard how in Europe that only 2 percent of the poulation went to church and the same thing was going to happen to the "USA", I didn't believe it. Reason the message of Christ had been changing slowly and surely. And God himself was calling them out. And the great plunge, some have said: was "Billy Sunday" even by by Sundays own words. And through out the years i have watch this great "Exodus"of "True Believers"! And listen to the words they have spoken to me and watch them and was puzzel by these old believers in christ. And everynow and then i hear them speakings those words to me and now i understand them. Plainly in light of holy scripture.
 
Active
Hi Plough Boy,

Sorry mate, I can't agree. I can't think of anything that I'd like to do more on a Sunday morning, than go to church and worship our God, share and meet loads of brothers and sisters, listen to and join in a service dedicated to God's glory. In our church beforehand there's a prayer meeting; it's lovely. I'm guessing there's more than a few teens reading this, shaking their heads thinking, how sad is that? I'd much rather play football or lie in recovering from the previous night's excesses, but no, give me church on a Sunday morning, every time.

Scripture's with me on this one. The church doesn't have to meet a threshold of holiness to make it worthwhile going. Peter and John went to the Temple in Acts 3:1-10 where Jesus wasn't even recognised as the son of God. Paul and other apostles went on many campaigns church planting and it was through these churches that eventually mushroomed into 'the church' and gave support to many Christians including Paul himself 2 Corinthians 1:11, this was the seedbed of Christianity as we know it today. God worked through churches and still does with outreach, pastoral care and support, group prayer and communal worship. For the born again, what's not to like?

I urge you to reconsider your stance on this one and look for a local church that you feel you can both give to and receive blessings aplenty. Believe me, if there's a voice in your head telling you not to go to church, it's not from God or the Holy Spirit.

God bless you bro :blush:
 
Active
Hi Plough Boy,

Sorry mate, I can't agree. I can't think of anything that I'd like to do more on a Sunday morning, than go to church and worship our God, share and meet loads of brothers and sisters, listen to and join in a service dedicated to God's glory. In our church beforehand there's a prayer meeting; it's lovely. I'm guessing there's more than a few teens reading this, shaking their heads thinking, how sad is that? I'd much rather play football or lie in recovering from the previous night's excesses, but no, give me church on a Sunday morning, every time.

Scripture's with me on this one. The church doesn't have to meet a threshold of holiness to make it worthwhile going. Peter and John went to the Temple in Acts 3:1-10 where Jesus wasn't even recognised as the son of God. Paul and other apostles went on many campaigns church planting and it was through these churches that eventually mushroomed into 'the church' and gave support to many Christians including Paul himself 2 Corinthians 1:11, this was the seedbed of Christianity as we know it today. God worked through churches and still does with outreach, pastoral care and support, group prayer and communal worship. For the born again, what's not to like?

I urge you to reconsider your stance on this one and look for a local church that you feel you can both give to and receive blessings aplenty. Believe me, if there's a voice in your head telling you not to go to church, it's not from God or the Holy Spirit.

God bless you bro :blush:
that is your right, to agree with any thing you choose. But i will stick my statement of words. And not to your understanding and your interpretation of what you think i was saying. It means a lot when people do not have the same interpretaion of a mutiude of words. And so far i do preceive our interpretation of "Biblical terminology' are completely different. And at this point of years of training and learning a universal Language of "Biblical Terms" that can cross and engage with a interpreter of over 33,000 "Christian Denominations" sitting on the 7 "Continents of this world. So in essence "Your Church" is your church. And it is to Your liking. Ok be happy. to each man's his own. And if it does not offend you, you church is not the Assembly, I am reffering to. I am only adreessing "The Temple' of The GOD Almight"! And He said it plainly in the "BOOK" and a man did say it in "The Book" God said it in "The Book".

GOD Said This.
2 Corinthians 6:16
What agreement can exist between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be My people." [i fully understands this translation in "english syntax".} and i am not in error and the word of god is not in error.}.

NASB 1977
“However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made by humanhands; as the prophet says:
 
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Loyal
A lot of people have had a lot of Biblical training. That's wonderful. And all of us do need to be meeting together with other believers on a regular basis. We do need fellowshipping.

In Revelation John is talking to the 7 churches of Asia -- their strengths and weaknesses and that applies to churches in the here and now, also.

So -- what church group are we being part of -- and are we being a good influence or a bad one.

Churches are made up of sinners who are born again. And there are people who come to church to see what it's all about. Are we being a good influence for them or shunning them?

People usually are looking for connectiveness / acceptance. The acceptance would depend on what they are doing that they want to be accepted For. If the acceptance includes a life-style that is Not Biblical , then that Could be problematic.

It's Easy to find reasons To stay home.

If you're contemplating a move -- find out what churches will be local -- or start getting to know your neighbors and maybe start an informal Bible study -- back yard bbq. Provide something in a friendly nature and see how it's received.
You don't have to have a Bible in the middle of the picnic table. Offer up a quick -thank you for this food and time spent with neighbors -- not a plan of salvation wrapped up in the quick prayer.

In other wards, take time to get to know your neighbors. An alcohol / drug free environment -- good , healthy language and see how they respond.
 
Active
A lot of people have had a lot of Biblical training. That's wonderful. And all of us do need to be meeting together with other believers on a regular basis. We do need fellowshipping.

In Revelation John is talking to the 7 churches of Asia -- their strengths and weaknesses and that applies to churches in the here and now, also.

So -- what church group are we being part of -- and are we being a good influence or a bad one.

Churches are made up of sinners who are born again. And there are people who come to church to see what it's all about. Are we being a good influence for them or shunning them?

People usually are looking for connectiveness / acceptance. The acceptance would depend on what they are doing that they want to be accepted For. If the acceptance includes a life-style that is Not Biblical , then that Could be problematic.

It's Easy to find reasons To stay home.

If you're contemplating a move -- find out what churches will be local -- or start getting to know your neighbors and maybe start an informal Bible study -- back yard bbq. Provide something in a friendly nature and see how it's received.
You don't have to have a Bible in the middle of the picnic table. Offer up a quick -thank you for this food and time spent with neighbors -- not a plan of salvation wrapped up in the quick prayer.

In other wards, take time to get to know your neighbors. An alcohol / drug free environment -- good , healthy language and see how they respond.
Each person to his own. There is a reason GOD saw fit to have His word translated into the "Common Man's Language" and why GOD Chose the koine Greek LANguage for HIS speaking and THe Aramaic Language to use. And A certain culture to use whithin certain cultures for it's persentations.

"Now we have This "westernization" idiom new form of "Christianity" which has many avenues and junctions and it's own dialects of interpretation of common words and has label it self, by actions, "the Law of The Land". And we think we have the Right to "engrave these pratices, speculations, and assumptions with a Hierarchy form of "Eisegesis" into the very "heart of "The Original Copied Manuscript" the very words that has come out of the mouth of GOD Himself, where these practices cannot be found or lured to. And many love the fancies of defense of "One sentence" and rogue in, a "transliterated" word into The Context of THe BOOK,, out of 31,100 plus verses in the "bible". and shape the entire world, that sits upon "The 7 Continents". And This "Institution" has "Deem" itself The "SUB_Ruler" of The Universe and is to be OBeyed"! And Her SuBJects are "The SONS of THE LIVING GOD" The ones who are BORN of His Spirit and Wash in HIS Blood" and all others are free of Her Reign! And The SONS are To obey HER and bow down to Her commands, freely! And they Have not The FreeWill to think of Their Own! But She must Think and choose for them! For they cannot think of their own freewill, but they have been place into another "bondage" who has not died for them, Just wandering Sheep who still has no Shepherd. or a Shepherd who is to busy to asttend to Them and to busy, to lead and care and feed His own Sheep, powerless to do so.

If this is the leadership, this Organization is promoting, no wonder only about 2% of Europe is sign on. And They Have Claim way over 10 years ago The U.S.A. is Next following into pursuit, And Australian is not far behind as for in 2016 only 16 % where attending and declining.

Prophecy in The Old Testament is coming to past at a rapid pace, concerning things to come.

What it is, is what it is. "Jesus said: "I know my sheep" and I know them by Name" and they hear me" and they know my voice and they will not follow another"! >>>>>>>>>"and Jesus cannot Lie"<<<<<<<<<<<<<

"Choose you this day, The God who you will serve" There is only one True God, and only One True Way, and That path is narrow and Hard, and many will seek and will not, "be able" to. "


You see, many do not understand, Their are :"The Children of God" and "there are "The Sons of God". There is a different.
 
Loyal
that is your right, to agree with any thing you choose. But i will stick my statement of words. And not to your understanding and your interpretation of what you think i was saying. It means a lot when people do not have the same interpretaion of a mutiude of words. And so far i do preceive our interpretation of "Biblical terminology' are completely different. And at this point of years of training and learning a universal Language of "Biblical Terms" that can cross and engage with a interpreter of over 33,000 "Christian Denominations" sitting on the 7 "Continents of this world. So in essence "Your Church" is your church. And it is to Your liking. Ok be happy. to each man's his own. And if it does not offend you, you church is not the Assembly, I am reffering to. I am only adreessing "The Temple' of The GOD Almight"! And He said it plainly in the "BOOK" and a man did say it in "The Book" God said it in "The Book".

GOD Said This.
2 Corinthians 6:16
What agreement can exist between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be My people." [i fully understands this translation in "english syntax".} and i am not in error and the word of god is not in error.}.

NASB 1977
“However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made by humanhands; as the prophet says:
@PloughBoy where do you think @Andyindauk misunderstood or misinterpreted what you said?

His observation is correct. In the New Testament writings the congregations of Jesus followers were frequently rebuked and corrected for their failings. But never is anyone told it is better to depart from the fellowship.

How do you respond to that?
 
Active
How many times have i mention the word "etomology" on TalkJesus. and how words has been coined and I have been attacked for using isuch terms of justifcation.

Those were the words that came out of the very mouth of GOD! With proper "word" translations instead of :Transliterated words that mankind have created and Given there own translation to feed there own needs and satisfactions and preferred lust.

And the only thing i am trying to do is "Edify the body of Christ" and in no way I am trying to destroy the "Word of GOD" or Be considered a "Anti-Christ". by Speaking "The Trith". and asking others to do a "diligent search" of their own and use "relable justifiable documents" in their resarch, then come to their own conclusion instead of a copy of "plagiarism".
 
Active
@PloughBoy where do you think @Andyindauk misunderstood or misinterpreted what you said?

His observation is correct. In the New Testament writings the congregations of Jesus followers were frequently rebuked and corrected for their failings. But never is anyone told it is better to depart from the fellowship.

How do you respond to that?
because , i see a miss understand of word meaning.. Assembly is not the same word as the english word, "chruch" "assemble together" does not mean to go to "Church", now matter how a person may try to convince me and make me think that. But i can be convince to think a dog is a cat! A house is a car, my mother is my father, and my father is my mother. Proven fact! And the word "church" did not exists in any english speaking "Bible" until 1611 KJV, for a purpose intigated by The RCC in covenant of a agreement with KJ Ist pertaining to Word changes for the purpose of "People domination"! "King James rules," and the "Church rules" [ Church rules the Sons of GOD] (the King Rules the Others]. So you like the idea of the [separation of church and State].:eyes:

Going to a "Church" is Not "Koinonia" no matter how hard they try to inprint the english word "fellowship" pertaining to the body of Christ! for it is impossible to do so.

"If you want to Hide something from someone you put it in a BOOK" and sit it on a Table right in front of them, and the secret will collect Dust! Known Fact!

The day will come ,men, women and children will die again in great numbers for this faith i speak of ! They will not "compremise"! and they will not allow the unclean into their "assembly" or try to have "Kiononia" with them. This is the "
The faith that was Once delivered unto the Saints".


You worship The 'True God In Spirit and Truth" and Not in the Church in Jerusalem. Jesus made that clear that a Blind man could see! Must christians do not understand the Difference and purposes of "A Temple, A Synagogue, Tabernacle, or A "circe" let alone the meaning of 'The Congregation of God", "The Asembly of the People of God", "Have them Assemble here" in The Camp, Outside the Camp" "The Temple Courts", The Colonnade, The Catacombs and who would dare "assemble" near "Gehenna" and such places, Now we argue with people of things we no nothing about and at the same time recieve a following who attacks the one's who are trying to " edify"! and not to tear down. It bereaves me to have to leave my family among people, who cares not to have knowledge of certain truths if The Rapture, do come, during my time. And They are the ones who are left, to carry the True Banner of Truth, who have finally come to the knowledge of the Truth, that was spoken but fail to give a hint of investigating preliminary studies but love the field of "speculations" and assumptions". Their flight will not be easy. "in the Gospels"they had no idea what Jesus was talking about" But after "The Day of Penetecost" in the Acts of The Apostles the light came on. and then they begin to understand the "Truth' that Jesus was trying to tell them. Now they Have become "New Creatures"and their eyes became open.


Shallom within you always.
 
Active
@PloughBoy -- many times it not What your'e saying, but How you're presenting it that turns people off.
American Standard Version
For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? or am I striving to please men? if I were still pleasing men, I should not be a servant of Christ.
Contemporary English Version
I am not trying to please people. I want to please God. Do you think I am trying to please people? If I were doing that, I would not be a servant of Christ.

I hope there is not a Hint in me to Turn people on, into following me at anytime.
1 Thessalonians 2:4
Instead, we speak as those approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, not in order to please men but God, who examines our hearts.

God has not call me to please anyman in my presenations. If i do so, I am a Enemy of GOD! even if i had a lust for men to to be impress with me, LORD GOD Remove this Evil from Me! and never let it be a part of my life, and to even think of such a "horrid thing" pertaining to myself.:pensive:

"PloughBoy"
 
Loyal
because , i see a miss understand of word meaning.. Assembly is not the same word as the english word, "chruch" "assemble together" does not mean to go to "Church", now matter how a person may try to convince me and make me think that. But i can be convince to think a dog is a cat! A house is a car, my mother is my father, and my father is my mother. Proven fact! And the word "church" did not exists in any english speaking "Bible" until 1611 KJV, for a purpose intigated by The RCC in covenant of a agreement with KJ Ist pertaining to Word changes for the purpose of "People domination"! "King James rules," and the "Church rules" [ Church rules the Sons of GOD] (the King Rules the Others]. So you like the idea of the [separation of church and State].:eyes:

Going to a "Church" is Not "Koinonia" no matter how hard they try to inprint the english word "fellowship" pertaining to the body of Christ! for it is impossible to do so.

"If you want to Hide something from someone you put it in a BOOK" and sit it on a Table right in front of them, and the secret will collect Dust! Known Fact!

The day will come ,men, women and children will die again in great numbers for this faith i speak of ! They will not "compremise"! and they will not allow the unclean into their "assembly" or try to have "Kiononia" with them. This is the "
The faith that was Once delivered unto the Saints".


You worship The 'True God In Spirit and Truth" and Not in the Church in Jerusalem. Jesus made that clear that a Blind man could see! Must christians do not understand the Difference and purposes of "A Temple, A Synagogue, Tabernacle, or A "circe" let alone the meaning of 'The Congregation of God", "The Asembly of the People of God", "Have them Assemble here" in The Camp, Outside the Camp" "The Temple Courts", The Colonnade, The Catacombs and who would dare "assemble" near "Gehenna" and such places, Now we argue with people of things we no nothing about and at the same time recieve a following who attacks the one's who are trying to " edify"! and not to tear down. It bereaves me to have to leave my family among people, who cares not to have knowledge of certain truths if The Rapture, do come, during my time. And They are the ones who are left, to carry the True Banner of Truth, who have finally come to the knowledge of the Truth, that was spoken but fail to give a hint of investigating preliminary studies but love the field of "speculations" and assumptions". Their flight will not be easy. "in the Gospels"they had no idea what Jesus was talking about" But after "The Day of Penetecost" in the Acts of The Apostles the light came on. and then they begin to understand the "Truth' that Jesus was trying to tell them. Now they Have become "New Creatures"and their eyes became open.


Shallom within you always.
I was expecting a long answer with many quotation marks and references to the meaning of words. You didn't answer either of the questions I posed.

We know that Jesus's first followers gathered in small communities to eat in fellowship commemorating his death, share Jesus teachings, worship and pray together. They also addressed practical needs in the community and for others. They called these groups 'ekklesia'. Today in English we say 'church', 'congregation' or 'fellowship'.

Was this the right way to put Jesus's teaching into practice then?

Is it the right way to put Jesus's teachings into practice now?
 
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