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John the Baptist and Jesus ?

soleil10

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
6
I do have a question about the relationship between John the Baptist and Jesus.
In John 1:33-34, John said, "'I myself did not know him; but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, "He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit. And I have seen and have born witness that this is the Son of God.

Later on just before John the Baptist died in prison, he sent his disciples to Jesus to ask, "... 'Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?'" (Mt 11:3). What happened ?

Does this verse show that John did not believe in Jesus and failed to serve him ?

There is another issue when Jesus said that John was the Elijah people were waiting for but John denied it.

Any clue ?

Would you let me know ?:sadface:
 
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JOHN the Baptizer, who has been in prison about a year now, receives the report about the resurrection of the widow’s son at Nain.(Luke 7:11-18) But John wants to hear directly from Jesus regarding the significance of this, so he sends two of his disciples to inquire: “Are you the Coming One or are we to expect a different one?”(Luke 7:20)

That may seem a strange question, especially since John saw God’s spirit descend upon Jesus and heard God’s voice of approval when baptizing Jesus nearly two years before. John’s question may cause some to conclude that his faith has grown weak. But this is not so. Jesus would not speak so highly of John, which he does on this occasion, if John has begun to doubt. Why, then, does John ask this question?

John may simply want a verification from Jesus that He is the Messiah. This would be very strengthening to John as he languishes in prison. But apparently there is more to John’s question than that. He evidently wants to know if there is to be another one coming, a successor, as it were, who will complete the fulfillment of all the things that were foretold to be accomplished by the Messiah.

According to Bible prophecies with which John is acquainted, the Anointed One of God is to be a king, a deliverer. Yet, John is still being held as a prisoner, even many months after Jesus’ baptism. So John evidently is asking Jesus: ‘Are you really the one to establish the Kingdom of God in outward power, or is there a different one, a successor, for whom we should wait to fulfill all the wonderful prophecies relating to the Messiah’s glory?’

Instead of telling John’s disciples, ‘Of course I am the one who was to come!’ Jesus in that very hour puts on a remarkable display by healing many people, curing them of all kinds of diseases and ailments. Then he tells the disciples: “Go your way, report to John what you saw and heard: the blind are receiving sight, the lame are walking, the lepers are being cleansed and the deaf are hearing, the dead are being raised up, the poor are being told the good news.”(Luke 7:22)

In other words, John’s question may imply an expectation that Jesus will do more than he is doing and will perhaps free John himself. Jesus, however, is telling John not to expect more than the miracles Jesus is performing.

(source of information - The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived, chp 38)
 
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JOHN the Baptizer, who has been in prison about a year now, receives the report about the resurrection of the widow’s son at Nain.(Luke 7:11-18) But John wants to hear directly from Jesus regarding the significance of this, so he sends two of his disciples to inquire: “Are you the Coming One or are we to expect a different one?”(Luke 7:20)
That may seem a strange question, especially since John saw God’s spirit descend upon Jesus and heard God’s voice of approval when baptizing Jesus nearly two years before. John’s question may cause some to conclude that his faith has grown weak. But this is not so. Jesus would not speak so highly of John, which he does on this occasion, if John has begun to doubt. Why, then, does John ask this question?
John may simply want a verification from Jesus that He is the Messiah. This would be very strengthening to John as he languishes in prison. But apparently there is more to John’s question than that. He evidently wants to know if there is to be another one coming, a successor, as it were, who will complete the fulfillment of all the things that were foretold to be accomplished by the Messiah.
According to Bible prophecies with which John is acquainted, the Anointed One of God is to be a king, a deliverer. Yet, John is still being held as a prisoner, even many months after Jesus’ baptism. So John evidently is asking Jesus: ‘Are you really the one to establish the Kingdom of God in outward power, or is there a different one, a successor, for whom we should wait to fulfill all the wonderful prophecies relating to the Messiah’s glory?’
Instead of telling John’s disciples, ‘Of course I am the one who was to come!’ Jesus in that very hour puts on a remarkable display by healing many people, curing them of all kinds of diseases and ailments. Then he tells the disciples: “Go your way, report to John what you saw and heard: the blind are receiving sight, the lame are walking, the lepers are being cleansed and the deaf are hearing, the dead are being raised up, the poor are being told the good news.”(Luke 7:22)
Jaareshiah, thanks for answering me and letting me know how you see John' situation. When I read Jesus' response, it looks like he is quite upset that John is asking such a question after all the preparation and revelation he had received.
Jesus was indignant at such a question and answered quite judgmentally, "'... blessed is he who takes no offense at me'" (Mt 11:6),
Jesus also said, "'... among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he'" (Mt 11:11). If one were the greatest born of women, surely he should be equally great in the Kingdom of Heaven. Then how could John the Baptist, who was born as the greatest in history, be less than the least in heaven?
That is a pretty hard judgement coming form Jesus don't you think ?

In other words, John’s question may imply an expectation that Jesus will do more than he is doing and will perhaps free John himself. Jesus, however, is telling John not to expect more than the miracles Jesus is performing.(source of information - The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived, chp 38)

Beside the time when John baptizes Jesus, I could not find any other place in the bible where it says John was supporting Jesus. Don't you think it is odd.

There is another issue I believe that shows that there was a conflict between John and Jesus
In Malachi, it says, "'Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes ... '" (Mal 4:5,6). The "great and terrible day" that is referred to is the time when the Messiah comes, and thus this prophecy shows that before the Messiah comes, Elijah must first return.

Elijah lived nine hundred years before Jesus. There is record of his having ascended into heaven on a chariot of fire (2 Kings 2:11). The Israelites' longing for the Messiah was actually intensely focused on the arrival Elijah. This was because the Old Testament did not clearly foretell when the Messiah would come, but did clearly indicate that Elijah would precede him.

It was under these circumstances that Jesus appeared, proclaiming himself the Messiah. He told the Jewish people that he was the Son of God -- this to the very people who thought that he was simply a young man from Nazareth. they had not yet heard any news of Elijah's coming, so they asked, "How could Jesus of Nazareth be the Son of God?"

Later, when Jesus' disciples went out among the people of Israel, testifying to Jesus', the people doubted that Jesus was the Messiah and challenged the disciples by asking where Elijah was, since Elijah was to precede the Messiah. So Jesus' disciples turned around and asked Jesus, "' ... then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?'" (Mt 17:10). Jesus replied, "' ... Elijah does come, and he is to restore all things; but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they pleased ...'. Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist" (Mt 17:10-13).
Jesus' own disciples could easily believe this, but could the Israelites bring themselves to believe it? John the Baptist did not come directly from heaven, and John himself even denied he was Elijah

(Jn 1:21). They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?"
He said, "I am not."
"Are you the Prophet?"
He answered, "No."
When I add all this up, I see a big tragedy here. The last prophet before Jesus went his own way ending up in the personal scandals of the Herod while the true king was walking the earth.

I have a hard time reconciling all these events like everything was going as planned
 
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John was a normal man ! He came in the same type spirit as , Elias;

John was not Born -again yet! The LORD had to die first before any were or any had the Holy Spirit dwelling in them. that is Why John was less than any of us at that time!
The Holy Ghost was with hIm Always! Still He was not perfectly sure of who Jesus Christ WAS and wanted to be sure!

Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

John was born into the old testament , even as our LORD was ! He [our LORD] had to die on the cross , free the captive spirits in hell , who were willingly to accept Him and His Gospel !

Then Enter [New Jerusalem first , then send back the Holy Ghost before anyone could be Born into the kingdom [ Born -Again]

I was confused over John a long time!
Now i believe , i have the correct understanding!

Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.


Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God

Because they are Never Born into HIS kingdom!
Only the Spirit of mankind CAN be born into His kingdom!
He changes our Spirit and makes us a New Creature! then We are part of His kingdom! God is Only the Father of Perfect Spirit beings!

It is our Spirit that counts and not the weak dying bodies we dwell in a short time!
We All need to think more spiritually minded and less fleshly minded !
The flesh thinking will give us different answers , than the Spiritual thinking will ?

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

The differance I believe is the Holy Ghost came upon people, but Now HE dwells in those Born of God !


1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

This is just the way I see it!
 
John was a normal man ! He came in the same type spirit as, Elias;
Hi spirit1st.
John denied he came with the mission of Elijah. This created a lot of trouble for Jesus because John was known and he came from a respected family

John was not Born -again yet! The LORD had to die first before any were or any had the Holy Spirit dwelling in them. that is why John was less than any of us at that time!
The Holy Ghost was with hIm Always! Still He was not perfectly sure of who Jesus Christ WAS and wanted to be sure!
Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
As the last prophet living on earth as the same time as Jesus, his family as well as him received special revelations of who Jesus was.
On the other end, Jesus told the thief on his right that he will be in paradise with him. Does it male sense to you that this thief is going to be higher in the kingdom than John unless something went fundamentally wrong with his mission to prepare the way for Jesus. Beside the baptism of Jesus, I cant find another verse in the NT that tells us that John was helping Jesus.

John was born into the old testament , even as our LORD was ! He [our LORD] had to die on the cross , free the captive spirits in hell , who were willingly to accept Him and His Gospel !
Spirit1st I am struggling with that too. If Jesus came to die, then John did the right thing for loosing faith in Jesus.

Then Enter [New Jerusalem first , then send back the Holy Ghost before anyone could be Born into the kingdom [ Born -Again]
I was confused over John a long time! Now i believe , i have the correct understanding!
Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God.
Because they are Never Born into HIS kingdom!
Only the Spirit of mankind CAN be born into His kingdom!
He changes our Spirit and makes us a New Creature! then We are part of His kingdom! God is Only the Father of Perfect Spirit beings!
It is our Spirit that counts and not the weak dying bodies we dwell in a short time!
We All need to think more spiritually minded and less fleshly minded !
The flesh thinking will give us different answers , than the Spiritual thinking will ?
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
The differance I believe is the Holy Ghost came upon people, but Now HE dwells in those Born of God !
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
This is just the way I see it!
Spirit 1st,after Jesus was crucified, his disciples went a similar way and offered their lifes too. John on the other hand, the one the most prepared to be Jesus #1 disciple ended up dying for Herod family's affairs while he had the incredible chance to live and walk the earth with the living Messiah.
If he had died for Jesus, he would be know as the first martyr.
Dont' you think so ?
 
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John DIED for TRUTH ! JESUS is TRUTH
Many died for the LORD JESUS CHRIST , Since the beginning!

They may not have known Jesus And God were one?

1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

It was always JESUS CHRIST!



John never lost Faith. He just did not have perfect understanding!
But HE knew Jesus came from God!




Joh 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.


Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.


Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which
 
John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
Spirit, for me this verse choes that John did not undertand the true value of Jesus.

If he had recognized that he was Elijah as Jesus said he was
If he had attended Jesus and support him, Jesus would have to start another foundation from scratch
John the Baptist w ould have been much more helpful to Jesus being alive working with him than being involved with Herod's affair
There is no trace of John after the baptism of Jesus

This is what I ended up to conclude, thank you for sharing your belief with me
 
If he had recognized that he was Elijah as Jesus said he was
If he had attended Jesus and support him, Jesus would have to start another foundation from scratch
John the Baptist w ould have been much more helpful to Jesus being alive working with him than being involved with Herod's affair
There is no trace of John after the baptism of Jesus

It was not John's God given role to work alongside Jesus. His role was to prepare the way for Jesus' ministry (see Mk 1:2-6). Where John's condemnation of Herod Antipas' marriage to Herodias (his brother Philip's wife) is concerned, Herod was the ruler in Galilee, when Jesus' ministry began there and it could be that the encounter with Herod was important in the work of preparing the way for Jesus.

Also, Mt 17:11-13 shows that John was not a reincarnated Elijah but one who came in the spirit and power of Elijah - Jesus was speaking metaphorically when He called him Elijah.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)
 
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I agree with ED!
John had served HIS purpose, there was no reason for him to live on.
So God honored him and allowed him to die for the LORD! Giving Him greater honor in the world to come!
 
It was not John's God given role to work alongside Jesus. His role was to prepare the way for Jesus' ministry (see Mk 1:2-6).
? ? ? ? ? ?

Where John's condemnation of Herod Antipas' marriage to Herodias (his brother Philip's wife) is concerned, Herod was the ruler in Galilee, when Jesus' ministry began there and it could be that the encounter with Herod was important in the work of preparing the way for Jesus.
Even if we assume that, the fact that he did not denied publically his position as coming in the spirit and power of Elijah and the fact that he was still doubting that Jesus was the one to come are real.
There is no record of him having done anything for Jesus beside the baptism.
Jesus clealy scolded him for his lack of faith. We just can bury all these clues. Jesus was clearly rejected by the people. John actions as the last prophet made it very difficult for Jesus.

Also, Mt 17:11-13 shows that John was not a reincarnated Elijah but one who came in the spirit and power of Elijah - Jesus was speaking metaphorically when He called him Elijah.
Spirit Led Ed (SLE)
I agree, he was not Elijah reincarnated.
 
I do have a question about the relationship between John the Baptist and Jesus.
In John 1:33-34, John said, "'I myself did not know him; but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, "He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit. And I have seen and have born witness that this is the Son of God.

Later on just before John the Baptist died in prison, he sent his disciples to Jesus to ask, "... 'Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?'" (Mt 11:3). What happened ?

Does this verse show that John did not believe in Jesus and failed to serve him ?

There is another issue when Jesus said that John was the Elijah people were waiting for but John denied it.

Any clue ?

Would you let me know ?:sadface:

John and Jesus were second cousins and both mothers new each other well. Both families fled to Egypt to escape the wrath and certain death from King Herrod.

John was the older by 6 mo. . When both families returned to Israel many years later, John stayed and became a priest.

During this time, both boys grew to manhood, John destined to preach and prepare the way for the Messiah and of course, Jesus grew into the Messiah.

Jesus claimed John, to be the greatest of all prophets and He knew that John was his cousin.

On the other hand, John eventually knew the man Jesus was the messiah, but had no clue that they were related.

And, eventhough, John had witnessed God and His calling first hand, he was still not sure of Jesus as the Messiah in the end.

John also was confronted with the wrong idea of the Messiah; he too thought that the Messaih would be the one to take over control of the Romans and bring the jews to power.

Jesus message back to John was, don't doubt me, just remember what you witnessed in me with the dove and all the miracles that he perfomed and that He alone could only be the Messiah!
 
John and Jesus were second cousins and both mothers new each other well. Both families fled to Egypt to escape the wrath and certain death from King Herod.
John was the older by 6 mo. . When both families returned to Israel many years later, John stayed and became a priest.
During this time, both boys grew to manhood, John destined to preach and prepare the way for the Messiah and of course, Jesus grew into the Messiah.
Jesus claimed John, to be the greatest of all prophets and He knew that John was his cousin.
On the other hand, John eventually knew the man Jesus was the messiah, but had no clue that they were related.
And, eventhough, John had witnessed God and His calling first hand, he was still not sure of Jesus as the Messiah in the end.
John also was confronted with the wrong idea of the Messiah; he too thought that the Messiah would be the one to take over control of the Romans and bring the jews to power.

Jesus message back to John was, don't doubt me, just remember what you witnessed in me with the dove and all the miracles that he perfomed and that He alone could only be the Messiah!

RJ, That is what I think. John missed the boat big time. I do not undertand why most Chirsitans denominations do not see it.
It was a tragedy for Jesus that John did not join him and work with him.
Jesus went to the wilderness 40 days and started from scrach. He had to find his disciples and make a new foundation
 
RJ, That is what I think. John missed the boat big time. I do not undertand why most Chirsitans denominations do not see it.
It was a tragedy for Jesus that John did not join him and work with him.
Jesus went to the wilderness 40 days and started from scrach. He had to find his disciples and make a new foundation

Actually, this was all God's plan.

John wasn't about to join anything because he was about to get his head lopped off and join God in heaven.

Very few knew the purpose of Jesus; he even told them but they didn't understand:
Matthew 5:17
The Fulfillment of the Law


<SUP id=en-NIV-23252 class=versenum>17</SUP>"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
 
'Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?'" (Mt 11:3). What happened ?

John was facing death.....as it turned out....at the time of the question. John sent two of his diciples to Jesus to ask the question........

The reply of Jesus was....."tell John what things you have seen and heard....etc. Luke 7: 22

In other words Jesus was saying "John you are on the winning team...You were correct in your ministry.....Do not doubt, for you are chosen of God"
 
There is no record of him having done anything for Jesus beside the baptism.

John the Baptist baptised many people with the baptism of repentence (see Mt 3:5-6). Repentence is a critical step in the salvation process.

Jesus clealy scolded him for his lack of faith.

I think you are confusing John the Baptist with John the apostle - two different people.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)
 
Jaareshiah, thanks for answering me and letting me know how you see John' situation. When I read Jesus' response, it looks like he is quite upset that John is asking such a question after all the preparation and revelation he had received.
Jesus was indignant at such a question and answered quite judgmentally, "'... blessed is he who takes no offense at me'" (Mt 11:6),
Jesus also said, "'... among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he'" (Mt 11:11). If one were the greatest born of women, surely he should be equally great in the Kingdom of Heaven. Then how could John the Baptist, who was born as the greatest in history, be less than the least in heaven?
That is a pretty hard judgement coming form Jesus don't you think ?



Beside the time when John baptizes Jesus, I could not find any other place in the bible where it says John was supporting Jesus. Don't you think it is odd.

There is another issue I believe that shows that there was a conflict between John and Jesus
In Malachi, it says, "'Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes ... '" (Mal 4:5,6). The "great and terrible day" that is referred to is the time when the Messiah comes, and thus this prophecy shows that before the Messiah comes, Elijah must first return.

Elijah lived nine hundred years before Jesus. There is record of his having ascended into heaven on a chariot of fire (2 Kings 2:11). The Israelites' longing for the Messiah was actually intensely focused on the arrival Elijah. This was because the Old Testament did not clearly foretell when the Messiah would come, but did clearly indicate that Elijah would precede him.

It was under these circumstances that Jesus appeared, proclaiming himself the Messiah. He told the Jewish people that he was the Son of God -- this to the very people who thought that he was simply a young man from Nazareth. they had not yet heard any news of Elijah's coming, so they asked, "How could Jesus of Nazareth be the Son of God?"

Later, when Jesus' disciples went out among the people of Israel, testifying to Jesus', the people doubted that Jesus was the Messiah and challenged the disciples by asking where Elijah was, since Elijah was to precede the Messiah. So Jesus' disciples turned around and asked Jesus, "' ... then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?'" (Mt 17:10). Jesus replied, "' ... Elijah does come, and he is to restore all things; but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they pleased ...'. Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist" (Mt 17:10-13).
Jesus' own disciples could easily believe this, but could the Israelites bring themselves to believe it? John the Baptist did not come directly from heaven, and John himself even denied he was Elijah

(Jn 1:21). They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?"
He said, "I am not."
"Are you the Prophet?"
He answered, "No."
When I add all this up, I see a big tragedy here. The last prophet before Jesus went his own way ending up in the personal scandals of the Herod while the true king was walking the earth.

I have a hard time reconciling all these events like everything was going as planned

Jesus was not upset or indignant with John, for he would not have said to the crowd: "What did you go out into the wilderness to behold? A reed being tossed by a wind? What, then, did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft garments? Why, those wearing soft garments are in the houses of kings. Really, then, why did you go out? To see a prophet? Yes, I tell you, and far more than a prophet."(Matt 11:7-9)

Jesus was fully aware that John the Baptist was sent forth by God to "prepare" the nation of Israel for the arrival of him as the Messiah (Matt 3:3; Isa 40:3), telling them to "repent, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.”(Matt 3:2)

And he was fully aware of the angel's declaration to Zechariah before John the Baptist birth, that "you will have joy and great gladness, and many will rejoice over his birth; for he will be great before Jehovah. But he must drink no wine and strong drink at all, and he will be filled with holy spirit right from his mother’s womb; and many of the sons of Israel will he turn back to Jehovah their God."(Luke 1:14-16)

The angel further said that John the Baptist "will go before him with E·li´jah’s spirit and power, to turn back the hearts of fathers to children (Mal 4:6) and the disobedient ones to the practical wisdom of righteous ones, to get ready for Jehovah a prepared people.”(Luke 1:17)

Through Malachi, God foretold: “Look! I am sending to you people Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah. And he must turn the heart of fathers back toward sons, and the heart of sons back toward fathers; in order that I may not come and actually strike the earth with a devoting of it to destruction.” (Malachi 4:5, 6) Elijah lived some 500 years before those words were uttered. Since this was a prophecy, Jews of the first century C.E. were in expectation of Elijah’s coming to fulfill it.(Matthew 17:10)

Elijah was a man of much drive and force in his zealous service to God, and Elisha sought a two-part share in Elijah’s spirit as his successor. (2 Kings 2:9, 15) John the Baptizer demonstrated the same vigorous drive and energetic zeal that Elijah had shown, and this resulted in John’s having a powerful effect on his listeners; hence he could be said to have gone forth “with Elijah’s spirit and power.”

On the other hand, Jesus became thoroughly incensed with the religious leaders, for these failed to show the godly quality of mercy, with Jesus telling them that "if you had understood what this means, ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless ones."(Matt 12:7)

These were ones that were "offended" or were "stumbled" over Jesus, for after having condemned them for having “made the word of God invalid” by means of their traditions (Matt 15:6), the disciples then says to Jesus: “Do you know that the Pharisees stumbled (“offended”, King James Bible) at hearing what you said.”(Matt 15:12) These thus were “offended” or “stumbled” at Jesus words and powerful works.

At John 6, when Jesus had told the Jews that “unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves”(John 6:53), rather than asking for more of an explanation, “many of his disciples” were stumbled or "offended" and said: “This speech is shocking; who can listen to it ?”(John 6:60) and “would no longer walk with him.”(John 6:66) These lost out on becoming “kings and priests’ in God’s kingdom.(Rev 1:6)

Jesus thus said that "happy is he that finds no cause for stumbling in me."(Matt 11:6) His apostles, instead of becoming “offended”, felt as Peter, who told Jesus: “Lord, whom shall we go away to ? You have sayings of everlasting life; and we have believed and come to know that you are the Holy One of God.”(John 6:68, 69) Hence, rather than being "offended" or stumbled, these stayed with Jesus. As a result, these were among the first ones chosen to serve in the official capacity of “kings and priests” on the day of Pentecost.(Acts 2:4)

John the Baptist was indeed a great prophet, but was not one of the ones chosen by God to “enter into the kingdom of God”, for as Jesus said: “Truly I say to you people, Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is.” Thus, John did not have the privilege of becoming one of the “joint-heirs with Christ.”(Rom 8:17)

Due to him dying (Matt 14:10) before the first selection of individuals who were anointed with holy spirit on the day of Penetecost 33 C.E., he was not among those whom God chose to become a “kingdom of priests and a holy nation.”(Ex 19:6) John himself said to his disciples: “You yourselves bear me witness that I said, I am not the Christ, but, I have been sent forth in advance of that one. He that has the bride is the bridegroom. However, the friend of the bridegroom, when he stands and hears him, has a great deal of joy on account of the voice of the bridegroom. Therefore this joy of mine has been made full.”(John 3:28, 29)

Thus, John recognized that he was not of the “bride” of Christ, but rather was just a “friend of the bridegroom.”
John clearly recognized Jesus as the “Lamb of God”, as “the lace of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie”(John 1:27, 29), and told the religious leaders that this “one will baptize you people with holy spirit and fire.”(Matt 3:11) Both John and Jesus were sent forth by God to accomplish specific assignments.

The “great and terrible day” that is spoken of at Malachi 4:5 was not the arrival of Jesus, but rather is the same “day” as spoken at Joel 2:31, spoken of as the "great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah." This “day” proved to be when the Roman armies came against the land of Judah in 70 C.E. , when, in fulfillment of his Word, Jehovah God caused the armies of Rome to execute divine judgment upon the nation that had rejected the Son of God and defiantly shouted: “We have no king but Caesar.”(John 19:15; Dan 9:24-27)

The book of Daniel foretold, down to the year, when the Messiah would arrive. At Daniel 9:24, it says that "there are seventy weeks that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite, and to imprint a seal upon vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies."

The timeline for the appearing of the Messiah is furnished at Daniel 9:25: "And you should know and have the insight that from the going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Mes·si´ah the Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks." The "going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem" was in the 20th year of king Artaxerxes (Neh 2:1, 5-8), or on 455 B.C.E. The completion of the 69 weeks of "years" (7 weeks + 62 weeks), or 483 years, was in the fall of year 29 C.E., the "fifteenth year of the reign of Ti·be´ri·us Caesar."(Luke 3:1) At this time, Jesus arrived on the scene as the Messiah.(Matt 3:13-17)
 
john was no christain, hr was not saved . he was one of them Jesus freed from hell .

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.


1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
 
john was no christain, hr was not saved . he was one of them Jesus freed from hell .

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.


1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

John the Baptist was not a Christian and neither were the twelve apostles that Jesus chose in about 31 C.E., for the term "Christian" was not put upon those who closely followed Christ Jesus until about 44 C.E., as seen at Acts 11:26, this being by "divine providence". In addition, John the Baptist was not in "hell", a term used by the churches of Christendom to express "eternal torment" and of which the Bible does not teach.

The angel Gabriel told his father-to-be, Zechariah, that the child that Elizabeth his wife would conceive in her womb, would be called "John", and that "you will have joy and great gladness, and many will rejoice over his birth; for he will be great before Jehovah....and many of the sons of Israel will he turn back to Jehovah their God."(Luke 1:13,14, 16) Thus, John the Baptist was one sent forth by God himself, being "great" before him.

John proved that he was indeed "great before Jehovah", for he did not tread in the same religious traditions that had become the norm for the nation of Israel. When baptizing Israelites for sins against the Mosaic Law in the Jordan River, and many of the Pharisees and Sadducees came to the baptism, he denounced these, saying: "You offspring of vipers, who has intimated to you to flee from the coming wrath ?....Already the ax is lying at the root of the tree; every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire."(Matt 3:7, 10)

John condemned these religious leaders, standing for God's righteous laws and principles without question. Hence, God looked upon him with favor for his insistence on following God's laws instead of the traditions that now formed Judaism. He realized that it did not conform to God's original holy standards, but that with the introduction of the Pharisees and Sadducess from about the third century B.C.E., there was now a great deviation from the Mosaic Law that was laid out for the nation of Israel in 1513 B.C.E, with the purpose of being a "tutor leading to the Christ."(Gal 3:24)

The Pharisees were so biased in their application of the Law that they made it burdensome for the people, insisting that it be observed according to their concepts and traditions. (Matt 23:4) They completely lost sight of the important matters, namely, justice, mercy, faithfulness, and love of God. (Matt 23:23; Luke 11:41-44)

In addition, John showed himself "great before Jehovah" because the Pharisees held such sway over the people that the vast majority were afraid to say anything against them (John 9:22), yet John boldly spoke out against their wicked outlook and gross misapplication of the Law.

Too, he took a firm stand for God's moral requirements, speaking out against King Herod, saying that "it is not lawful for you to be having" his brother Philip's wife, Herodias, as his own.(Matt 14:3, 4) He never withdrew this, as some have done to save themselves, and therefore, Herodias seized an opportunity to have him put to death.(Matt 14:6-10)
 
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