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John Eldredge's Wild at Heart

Discussion in 'The Library' started by Sue J Love, Nov 25, 2017.

  1. Three years ago I became aware of John Eldredge's book "Wild at Heart," because someone I knew was reading it at the time. So, I read it myself to find out what he was teaching, and then the Lord led me to write a series of devotions referencing his book and its false teachings.

    Anyway, the subject of his book came up in a discussion on another thread today, so I thought I would post the writings here, that the Lord gave me, for anyone who is interested in finding out more about his book.

    Insults to God

    Sunday, March 09, 2014, 3:25 a.m. – the Lord Jesus put the song “Only In Him” in mind. Speak, Lord, your words to my heart. I read Isaiah 65 (quoting vv. 1-10 in the NIV).

    Here am I

    “I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
    I was found by those who did not seek me.
    To a nation that did not call on my name,
    I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’

    As I read this passage from Isaiah, this passage in Romans 5:6-8 (NIV) came to mind:

    You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

    Their Own Imaginations

    All day long I have held out my hands
    to an obstinate people,
    who walk in ways not good,
    pursuing their own imaginations—
    a people who continually provoke me
    to my very face,
    offering sacrifices in gardens
    and burning incense on altars of brick;
    who sit among the graves
    and spend their nights keeping secret vigil;
    who eat the flesh of pigs,
    and whose pots hold broth of impure meat;
    who say, ‘Keep away; don’t come near me,
    for I am too sacred for you!’

    In the past several years I have become somewhat acquainted with the teachings of John Eldredge. Eldredge is a counselor-teacher, primarily focused in ministry to Christian men. Yet, there are some very disturbing aspects of his teaching which are greatly troubling me, and which fit under this subject of “pursuing their own imaginations,” as well as with this scripture. He is a popular author-teacher among evangelical Christians. His teachings and writings are being taught in many churches here in America, particularly in men’s groups. Yet, I am just beginning to scratch the surface of this man’s heretical teachings concerning the characters, mind and heart of mankind and of God/Jesus Christ, and concerning God’s relationship to humankind and what our relationships to God/Jesus should look and act like.

    Here are some quotations from John Eldredge’s book “Wild at Heart” (pages 3-6), and also from the book’s introduction:

    “Man was born from the outback, from the untamed part of creation. Only afterward is he brought to Eden. And ever since boys have never been at home indoors, and men have an insatiable longing to explore. We long to return; it’s when most men come alive… The core of a man’s heart is undomesticated and that is good… Never stop exploring… Men have an insatiable longing to explore… Deep in man’s heart are some fundamental questions that simply cannot be answered at the kitchen table. Who am I? What am I made of? What am I destined for? It is fear that keeps a man at home where things are neat and under his control… If a man is ever to find out who he is and what he’s here for, he has got to take that journey for himself. He has got to get his heart back.” (Pages 3-6)

    Men “need permission to be what we are – men made in God’s image. Permission to live from the heart and not from a list of “should” and “ought” that has left so many of us tired and bored…” This book is offered as a “safari of the heart to recover a life of freedom, passion and adventure… it will help men get their heart back.” (Intro)

    Sounds good, right? On a surface read it sounds like he is merely encouraging men to be men and to enjoy God’s creation and to, perhaps, exercise their freedom in Christ and to not be brought underneath the bondage of legalism. But, is that really what he is saying? Look with me carefully at the not-so-subtle message being given to men (and women) here:

    Men long to be untamed (wild, natural, unsettled, uncontrollable, unsubmissive - sinful), undomesticated (uncomfortable, disinterested, not devoted and/or uninvolved in the affairs of marriage, home and family), and to NOT be in Eden (symbolic of mankind’s pure and sinless relationship to God where he walked and talked with God in perfect fellowship). They want to leave Eden (purity, righteousness) and go back to their natural state of mind and heart (the heart given over to sin). In this wild and natural state of heart and mind is when men truly come alive. The core (central, foundational, essential and/or enduring part) of man’s heart (the emotional or moral center of his life; the center of love, affection, and his innermost character, feelings or inclinations) is undomesticated (unconcerned with home, marriage and family) and that is good. Men have an insatiable (incapable of being satisfied) longing to explore, i.e. to pursue, go on a quest for, search out, and/or to scout out what is outside the confines of home and family and is outside his intimate relationship with God.

    Man’s deep need to know who he is, what he is made of and what he is destined for cannot be discovered at home where things are neat and orderly. It is fear that keeps man at home. He has to adventure outside the confines of marriage, home and family and Eden – his intimate and pure relationship with God - and take his own self-journey to get back his sinful unbelieving heart. He needs to give himself permission to be what men are… permission to live from his wild, untamed and undomesticated (and sinful) heart and to not live in Eden – in pure, unadulterated relationship with Almighty God; not from a list of “should” and “ought”, i.e. not in submission, surrender and obedience (in the Spirit of God) to Christ’s commandments for holy and godly living, because that just makes him tired and bored. He needs to venture outside of these confines of home and “Eden” to find his true self and to discover life, love and true happiness. It is outside these confines of home and “Eden” where man will find a life of freedom, passion and adventure, and it is there men will get their (wild, untamed, undomesticated, natural and out-of-Eden) hearts back. Wow!

    It gets much worse the more one reads of his writings, but I am just beginning to do the homework on John Eldredge and his heretical teachings – teachings which continue to support the central ideas presented in just these few quotes at the beginning of his book. And, the sad reality is that so many people are buying into this type of teaching which, by the way, is not just peculiar to him. There are many, many teachers in today’s evangelical church who are teaching out of their own imaginations rather than from God’s word, and whose teachings are in direct contradiction to the teachings of scripture. The result is that many people are abandoning the faith, i.e. they are abandoning the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ and they are, instead, following after teachers who say what their itching ears want to hear – feel-good messages that give them permission to keep on in sin.

    Yet, God continues to hold his hands out to his obstinate, rebellious church, and he continues to make calls to his adulterous and idolatrous church to return to him (to “Eden”).

    God Will Judge

    Such people are smoke in my nostrils,
    a fire that keeps burning all day.
    “See, it stands written before me:
    I will not keep silent but will pay back in full;
    I will pay it back into their laps—
    both your sins and the sins of your ancestors,”
    says the Lord.
    “Because they burned sacrifices on the mountains
    and defied me on the hills,
    I will measure into their laps
    the full payment for their former deeds.”

    God will judge, not just the world of sin, but his own people (see Rev. 2-3) for their idolatry and spiritual adultery. The prophets of old, most especially Isaiah, prophesied of the final days before the return of Christ when the church will have largely abandoned the true faith, and the people will have run after other “gods” of men to satisfy what their sinful hearts desire. These prophecies of scripture describe how God loves his people so much that he pursues them (chases or runs after them out of mercy), calling on them to repent of their sins and to return to their pure and unadulterated relationships with Jesus Christ. And, he is calling out to his church today, yet many are not listening. Many of those who are listening are calling out to God in prayer for revival of the church and the salvation of souls from sin.

    On Behalf of the Lord’s Servants

    This is what the Lord says:

    “As when juice is still found in a cluster of grapes
    and people say, ‘Don’t destroy it,
    there is still a blessing in it,’
    so will I do in behalf of my servants;
    I will not destroy them all.
    I will bring forth descendants from Jacob,
    and from Judah those who will possess my mountains;
    my chosen people will inherit them,
    and there will my servants live.
    Sharon will become a pasture for flocks,
    and the Valley of Achor a resting place for herds,
    for my people who seek me.

    In the past several days, especially, God has been encouraging me through the reading of Isaiah that his judgments (divine discipline and correction) will result in the revival of his church and the salvation of many human lives. God will answer the prayers of his servants for God to intervene on behalf of the people and to deliver them out of the grasp of these false teachers who lead the people astray, and to draw the people of God back into pure (unadulterated) fellowship with their Lord and Savior once again. And, in that hope I rest.

    ONLY IN HIM / An Original Work / February 19, 2014

    Based off Isaiah 30

    Woe to those who look to man’s help;
    Who turn away from Jesus Christ;
    Forming an alliance not in step with God;
    Making their own plans, and praying not.

    Willing not to listen to truth,
    They close their ears to what is right.
    Pleasing words are all that they’ll hear;
    Feel good messages that bring cheer.

    Trust in your Lord; turn from your sin.
    Put your faith now ONLY IN HIM.
    Do not turn to idols. They’ll not satisfy.
    Jesus will save you. That’s why He died.

    Your Lord will be gracious to you.
    He cares all about you, ‘tis true.
    He forgives you all of your sin
    When you give your life up to Him.

    Oh, how truly gracious He’ll be
    When you bow to Him on your knees;
    Turning now from your sin; walking in his ways.
    He’ll lead and guide you all of your days.

    Now you will sing praises to Him.
    He delivered you from your sin.
    You’ll tell others now of His grace,
    So they may see Christ face-to-face.

  2. Emergency!

    Monday, March 10, 2014, 9:11 a.m. – The Lord Jesus put in mind the song “Courageous!” Speak, Lord, your words to my heart. I read Jeremiah 1 (NIV).

    Not Afraid!

    The word of the Lord came to me, saying,

    “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
    before you were born I set you apart;
    I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
    “Alas, Sovereign Lord,” I said, “I do not know how to speak; I am too young.”

    But the Lord said to me, “Do not say, ‘I am too young.’ You must go to everyone I send you to and say whatever I command you. Do not be afraid of them, for I am with you and will rescue you,” declares the Lord.

    Then the Lord reached out his hand and touched my mouth and said to me, “I have put my words in your mouth. See, today I appoint you over nations and kingdoms to uproot and tear down, to destroy and overthrow, to build and to plant.”

    Truly this was Jeremiah’s specific call to ministry by God Almighty, and yet there are aspects of this call which are not peculiar to him alone, but which contain the essential elements of God’s call on the lives of all of his followers. We are all to be his witnesses, his lights to the world, and we are all to go and to make disciples of Christ of all peoples, baptizing and teaching them to obey all of Christ’s commandments. And, all throughout scripture we are urged to not be afraid of man and what he might do to us, but we are to put our trust in Jesus Christ alone. As well, we learn in the NT that each of us is to exhort, instruct, encourage, counsel, correct and to build-up other followers of Christ in the faith, as these are our working parts within the body of Christ, and for the edification of his church.

    Idol Worship

    …I will pronounce my judgments on my people
    because of their wickedness in forsaking me,
    in burning incense to other gods
    and in worshiping what their hands have made.

    In yesterday’s devotional, “Insults to God,” which you can read here - - the Lord Jesus led me to begin to look into the teachings of John Eldredge – Christian counselor, teacher and author – because there are some very disturbing aspects of his teaching which are greatly troubling me. Today, I believe, God would have me share a little bit more of what this teacher is spewing forth to Christian men (and women) in the Evangelical Christian churches here in America. In his book, “Wild at Heart,” on pgs 7-12, Eldredge said some more disturbing things:

    “And then, alas, there is the church. Christianity, as it currently exists, has done some terrible things to men… I believe that most men in the church believe that God put them on the earth to be a good boy. The problem with men, we are told, is that they don’t know how to keep their promises, be spiritual leaders, talk to their wives, or raise their children. But, if they will try real hard they can reach the lofty summit of becoming… a nice guy. That’s what we hold up as models of Christian maturity: Really Nice Guys. We don’t smoke, drink, or swear; that’s what makes us men. Now, let me ask my male readers: In all your boyhood dreams growing up, did you ever dream of becoming a Nice Guy?” (WaH pg. 7)

    So, what’s the underlying message here? I believe the message is clear: Being a “good boy” or a “nice guy” who keeps his promises, who is a spiritual leader, who talks with his wife, and who raises his children is bad. He is not a “real man.” A feeling of shame is thus attached to the image of the “nice guy” who does what is right; who obeys the word of the Lord, walks in the Spirit and not in the flesh, and who loves his wife and who honors his God. On the other hand, if you smoke, drink and swear, then you are a “real man.”

    “God meant something when he meant man, and if we are ever to find ourselves we must find that. What has he set in the masculine heart? Instead of asking what you think you ought to do to become a better man (or woman, for female readers), I want to ask, What makes you come alive? What stirs your hearts? The journey we face now is into a land foreign to most of us. We must head into country that has no clear trail. This charter for exploration takes us into our own hearts, into our deepest desires. As the playwright Christopher Fry says, ‘Life is a hypocrite if I can’t live the way IT moves me!’” (WaH pg. 9)

    I agree that God created both male and female, and that we are distinguished from each other in personality, drive, thought, and in the particular Biblical roles each one of us is to fulfill. I concur that men are generally the “hunters” and women the “nurturers.” I do also assent to the fact that men should be men and that women should be women. I, as well, grant that there has been too much blending or even switching of roles in today’s society, and that can lead to much confusion and, yes, even to the emasculation of men.

    Yet, I don’t believe that the Bible distinguishes the heart of males from that of females. Whether male or female, we either have sinful, unbelieving hearts, or we have regenerated hearts by the Spirit of God living within us because of God’s grace to us, and through our personal faith and trust in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior of our lives. As followers of Christ, we should now have HIS heart within us, and it is HIS heart which we should now seek to discover, not our own hearts, which, since we still live in flesh bodies, can still give way to the desires of the flesh. We should not be asking what stirs our hearts, but what stirs the heart of God, and then we should ask God to put that same stirring within us. This journey of the Christian faith and practice and walk in the Spirit has a clear path we must follow, not one where we aimlessly wander and explore trying to find our “true selves.” It is not “Life” that should move us, but what should move us is the Life of God within us.

    The danger I see in much of what I know and have read of Eldredge, and others like him, is that he seems to be leading men more toward self-discovery rather than God-discovery, and more toward a thought that somehow men don’t have to follow the same Biblical standards as women, because they are men, and so they are exempt. Oh, how wrong!

    “There are three desires I find written so deeply into my heart I know I can no longer disregard them without losing my SOUL. They are core to who I am and yearn to be… they are a clue into masculinity itself… In the heart of EVERY man is a desperate desire for a battle to fight, an adventure to live, and a beauty to rescue… a yearning… to find a place where he can be all he knows he was meant to be. To borrow Walter Brueggeman’s description of God: ‘wild, dangerous, unfettered and free’.” (WaH, pg. 9-12)

    Granted, Eldredge was probably speaking metaphorically when he said he could not disregard these three desires without losing his SOUL, and yet doesn’t this speak volumes to us about this man who, as a Christian, would use such language to describe the degree in which he holds these humanistic desires in such high esteem, and in level of importance in his life; that if he lacked them he would feel as though he would lose his very soul? Wow!

    He continues by saying these three masculine desires are core (essential, central, basic, and at the heart and center) to who he is as a person and what he yearns to be. Where is God in all of this? Where is John’s hunger and thirst for God - to be the man of God that scripture teaches he ought to be. Oh, how he hates that word “ought.” It appears from what he says that he doesn’t want to be what he “should” be, but who he wants to be, in his own flesh.

    So, what is this battle to fight, and adventure to live, and beauty to rescue which he believes is so valuable to his life that he would lose his very soul if he did not do these things? He says “little boys” yearn to know that they are “powerful, dangerous and someone to be reckoned with” (pg. 10), that “aggression is part of the masculine design” (pg. 10), and he says that “a boy wants to attack something – and so does a man...” (pg. 10). His description of man as a warrior includes his thirst for bloodshed, danger and competition. He has to win, even if others have to die (see pg. 11). So, he quotes from and shows movie clips from such movies as “Braveheart,” “Saving Private Ryan,” the “Die Hard” films, and the like, in order to encourage men to be brave, strong and fierce warriors. Wow! And, he uses his own twisted perception of the divine character of God to justify this, too. Yet, God is not like us, though Eldredge tries to make him like us, and we are not God.

    Get Ready!

    “Get yourself ready! Stand up and say to them whatever I command you. Do not be terrified by them, or I will terrify you before them. Today I have made you a fortified city, an iron pillar and a bronze wall to stand against the whole land—against the kings of Judah, its officials, its priests and the people of the land. They will fight against you but will not overcome you, for I am with you and will rescue you,” declares the Lord.

    So, is there a battle that must be fought by us? Most certainly! Yet, it is not peculiar to just men, and it is not fought with the weapons of this world – not with guns, knives, fists, bullying, or the shedding of human blood. It is fought on a spiritual battlefield with the spiritual weapons God has given to us. Jesus Christ already won this battle for us via his death and resurrection. We just have to put on (apply to our lives) what he has already done for us (See Eph. 6:10-20). We are to fight the good fight of faith, and we are to resist the devil and his lies - which Eldredge is spewing forth - with our faith, our salvation, Christ’s righteousness, the truth of God’s word, and with the true gospel of salvation. Yet, when we stand up for what is right, and we expose what is evil and wrong, there will be those who will fight against us, yet we should not be afraid, for God is with us.

    Courageous! / An Original Work / December 24, 2013

    Based off Various Scriptures

    The Word of God throughout taught.
    Some people heard, but did doubt.
    Still others had faith in Christ.
    By grace He purified them.

    They turned from sin
    And they obeyed Christ.
    He opened up their blinded eyesight;
    Turned them from darkness
    To the true Light;
    Forgave their sin by His might.

    He strengthened them in their faith.
    He said, “Remain my faithful.”
    He called them to obedience.
    By faith, they were so grateful.

    By faith, they were to follow Jesus;
    To daily sit and listen to Him;
    To have such faith
    That mountains could move;
    To love those whom He gave them.

    Be on your guard; courageous.
    Stand firm in faith. Be thankful.
    Take up the shield of your faith;
    Protect against all evil.

    Do not move from
    The hope that you have.
    Your faith in Jesus let it endure.
    Hold to the truth;
    Your conscience be clear.
    Endure with perseverance.

  3. In Whose Image?

    Tuesday, March 11, 2014, 9:10 a.m. – The Lord Jesus put the song in mind, “Near the Cross.” Speak, Lord, your words to my heart. I read Jeremiah 2 (NIV).

    How You Loved Me

    “This is what the Lord says:

    “‘I remember the devotion of your youth,
    how as a bride you loved me
    and followed me through the wilderness,
    through a land not sown.
    Israel was holy to the Lord,
    the firstfruits of his harvest… vv. 2-3a

    When I read this passage of scripture concerning how the people of God were devoted to the Lord in their youth, and how, as a bride, they loved the Lord and followed him anywhere, and how they were holy to the Lord, yet how they strayed from the Lord, it reminded me of the letters to the seven churches in Revelation (See Rev. 2-3). Jesus told the church in Ephesus such things as were praiseworthy about them, but then he said that they had forsaken their “first love,” or the “love you had at first.” He asked them to consider how they had fallen, and he called upon them to repent and to do the things they did at first. And, then he warned them that if they did not repent, he would come to them and he would remove their church (lampstand) from its place. Yet, for those who are victorious, he said he would give them the right to partake in all the richest of blessings in heaven.

    When we come to true faith in Jesus Christ, forsaking our former lovers of sin and self, being transformed in heart and mind of the Spirit of God, and being born of the Spirit of God to now walk in his righteousness and holiness, in the power of the Spirit within us, we are like a new bride completely in love with our Lord. He is the only one who satisfies the deep longings of our souls. None other will do! We have entered into a covenant marriage relationship with Jesus Christ and he is now to be our only husband and Lord (master). The desires of our hearts should now be for him, to live holy lives pleasing unto him, and to walk in all of his ways. And, yet, we still live in flesh bodies which have the propensity to sin and to rebel against God, and to forsake our Lord and to follow again the ways of our flesh.

    Broken Cisterns

    This is what the Lord says:

    …But my people have exchanged their glorious God
    for worthless idols.
    Be appalled at this, you heavens,
    and shudder with great horror,”
    declares the Lord.
    “My people have committed two sins:
    They have forsaken me,
    the spring of living water,
    and have dug their own cisterns,
    broken cisterns that cannot hold water. Vv. 11b-13

    Sometimes, although we may begin our journey with the Lord with the enthusiasm, love, trust, excitement, devotion, commitment and faithfulness of a new bride, we begin to drift away or to be led astray from our pure devotion to the Lord by the things of this world or by the teachings of humans, which sound pleasing to the ear, but which are filled with all kinds of lies and deceptions of Satan. We get bogged down with the cares of this life and we begin to adopt the ways of the world and the philosophies of humans and their humanistic ways of thinking, and thus we forsake our Lord, his truths and his ways in order to follow after what is not of him; what is not founded in the truth of God’s word, and which will never satisfy the deep longings of our souls; and that which will only lead us back down the path of sin.

    The Lord Jesus has recently led me to examine the writings and teachings of one humanistic author-counselor-teacher, because his teachings and his books are sweeping across America’s evangelical church, and many are adopting this man’s teachings in place of the teachings of scripture, and some even strongly defend this man and his teachings without truly examining against the word of God what is really being taught by this man. His teachings and writings are a prime example of the “broken cisterns that cannot hold water” over which God’s people have forsaken their Lord in order to run after these “other gods.”

    What Are We Made Of?

    John Eldredge, in his book “Wild at Heart,” speaking of Adam (in Genesis), said that Adam was created outside the Garden, and it was only after he was created that God placed him within the Garden of Eden. Biblically speaking, that part appears to be accurate. God created Adam and then he placed him in the Garden. Yet, then Eldredge goes on to make a parallel between Adam and all of men, and to suggest that, ever since God placed Adam within the Garden of Eden, “boys have never been at home indoors” (in Eden), and “men have had an insatiable longing to explore” (outside the Garden), and that man longs to return from whence he came, i.e. to the natural state from which he was first created. He said that is where (or when) “most men come alive.” (Ref: chapter 1, pgs. 3-4 in W.a.H.)

    Then, in chapter 2 of his book, he said that “A man has to know where he comes from and what he’s made of” (pg. 21). “Who is this One we allegedly come from, whose image every man bears? What is he like? In a man’s search for his strength, telling him that he’s made in the image of God may not sound like a whole lot of encouragement at first” (pg. 22).

    It is true that Adam and Eve were created in the image of God. They were perfect in holiness, righteousness, immortality, love, truth, and purity. In the Garden of Eden, before their fall into sin, they lived in perfect fellowship and harmony with Almighty God. That is the state in which Adam and Eve were created. They had no sin. Yet, God had also given them a free will, and he gave them opportunity and a choice to obey him or to not obey him. They chose to disobey, and so God banished them from the Garden because of their sin. And, ever since then, man (i.e. all humans) has been born into sin, NOT created in nor bearing the image (likeness; character) of Almighty God. Only Adam (and Eve) and Jesus Christ came into this world without the curse of original sin (See Is. 53:6; Jn. 8:44; Ro. 3:10, 23; Ro. 5:12-21; Ro. 6:20; and 1 Co. 15:22).

    So, in essence, what John Eldredge is suggesting here is that Adam was always unsettled in the Garden of Eden, where he was in perfect fellowship and harmony with God, and that he longed to return to where he was outside the garden. For him, though, that was still in perfect harmony and fellowship with God until after he sinned, which is then when he would have gotten his wish, if we believe what Eldredge says. Yet, to parallel him with all of men, knowing that the “natural” state in which all of humankind since Adam and his fall is that of being born with a sin nature, is to suggest that ALL humans are born in the likeness of God, which they are not, and that all Christian men are unsettled with their pure fellowship with God, and with living in harmony with his divine character, and that they long to go back to their natural state of living in sin and separation from Almighty God and to wander there.

    In The Image of God

    So, if a man needs to know where he comes from and what he is made of, he needs to read the whole Bible, not just the story of creation, and he needs to realize that he comes from Adam and that he is made of original sin, which thus separates him from Almighty God. And, if he wants to know whose image he bears outside of the Garden, i.e. outside of relationship with Jesus Christ/God, then he needs to read the whole of scripture, not John Eldredge, who is teaching what is false about the origins of man and what man, in the flesh, is made of. We are not born bearing the image of God, but we are born bearing the image of Adam (See 1 Co. 15:49) who sinned against God and thus was banished from God’s presence. John Eldredge would have you believe that all of mankind, saved or unsaved, bears the image (likeness) of Almighty God. And, many false beliefs have been built off of that lie.

    Yet, all is not hopeless! Jesus Christ, God the Son, came to earth in the likeness of human flesh so that he could become our perfect sacrifice for the sins of the entire world. When he died and was buried, our sins were put to death and were buried with him. When he arose from the dead, he conquered sin, death, hell and Satan so we could go free from eternal punishment and banishment from God; so we could be free from slavery to sin day-to-day, and so we could walk freely in his righteousness and holiness. And, when we enter into such faith with him, it is then that we can begin to bear the image of God, but not in absolute perfection until we reach heaven.

    So, the way in which we (only true followers of Jesus Christ and not all humans) can now bear the image (likeness) of God is through the cross of Christ. Col. 1:15 says: “The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 1 Co. 15:49 says: “And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.” We, the redeemed of the Lord, have been predestined to be conformed to the image of God’s Son (See Ro. 8:29). We, who are in Christ, “are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit” (2 Co. 3:18). So, although we are not created (born) in God’s image, as was Adam originally, yet through Jesus Christ we are being transformed into his image (his likeness, character, holiness, and purity). It is a process, though.

    Yet, if you are among those who think you bear the image of God just because you are human, then you need to come to the cross of Christ. And, if you are among the “fallen” who have forsaken their first love, as did Adam and Eve, and you were once in sincere and unadulterated fellowship with your Lord, but you have since wandered off to follow after the gods of men, or after the teachings of those who give you the messages your itching ears long to hear, then I pray you would repent of your sin, and that you would return to your Lord, and that you would do the things you did at first. God is going to judge one day. He will bring judgment upon the unbelieving world, but he will also judge his idolatrous church (See Rev. 2-3), so don’t play with what is not of God and think you are ok. Be back in fellowship (in Eden) with him today while you still have today.

    Near the Cross / Fanny J. Crosby / William H. Doane

    Jesus, keep me near the cross;
    There a precious fountain,
    Free to all, a healing stream,
    Flows from Calvary's mountain.

    Near the cross, a trembling soul,
    Love and mercy found me;
    There the bright and morning star
    Sheds its beams around me.

    Near the cross! O Lamb of God,
    Bring its scenes before me;
    Help me walk from day to day
    With its shadow o'er me.

    Near the cross I'll watch and wait,
    Hoping, trusting ever,
    Till I reach the golden strand
    Just beyond the river.

    In the cross, in the cross,
    Be my glory ever,
    Till my raptured soul shall find
    Rest beyond the river.

  4. Man over God

    Tuesday, March 18, 2014, 6:11 a.m. – The Lord Jesus put the song in mind, “Give God the Glory.” Speak, Lord, your words to my heart. I read Jeremiah 17:5-10 (ESV):

    Whom do you trust?

    Thus says the Lord:
    “Cursed is the man who trusts in man
    and makes flesh his strength,
    whose heart turns away from the Lord.
    He is like a shrub in the desert,
    and shall not see any good come.
    He shall dwell in the parched places of the wilderness,
    in an uninhabited salt land.
    “Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord,
    whose trust is the Lord.
    He is like a tree planted by water,
    that sends out its roots by the stream,
    and does not fear when heat comes,
    for its leaves remain green,
    and is not anxious in the year of drought,
    for it does not cease to bear fruit.” ~ vv. 5-8

    Man’s wisdom is useless to us. It is fruitless. Those who put their trust in humans and in human wisdom over and above or in place of God/Jesus Christ will find their lives to be empty, void of the life-giving word of God, the Spirit of truth, and the fruit of Christ’s righteousness and holiness. Man’s wisdom cannot save us. It may give us some temporary comfort, enjoyment, or pleasure, but it cannot satisfy the deep longings of our souls or answer our deep questions: “Who am I?” “Why am I here?” “Where am I going?” And, “What is my purpose in life?” These questions can only be answered in true relationship with Jesus Christ, by God’s grace, through faith, in prayer, and in the word of God (of truth).

    For those who put their hope and trust in Jesus Christ/God, and in his word, their lives will bear fruit (produce; results; outgrowth) for God’s eternal kingdom. Their source for wisdom, understanding, and strength is the “Living Water,” Jesus Christ, his word, and God’s grace, which “teaches us to say ‘No’ to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age” (See Tit. 2:11-14). Christ is our source of strength, wisdom, understanding, love, compassion, kindness, etc. He is the one who gives purpose and meaning to our lives, who leads us in the way we should go, who directs our steps, and who shows us how our lives are to be lived for his purposes and for his glory. We can find his guidance and direction for our lives in his Holy Word.

    Living in Bondage

    John Eldredge, in his book “Wild at Heart,” in chapter three, finally gets around to discussing the Fall of Man and its subsequent effect on all of humankind… sort of. Yet, leading up to that discussion he compares all men – he makes no distinction between saved and unsaved – to a lion living in a cage in a zoo:

    “For after years of living in a cage, a lion no longer even believes it is a lion… and a man no longer believes he is a man.” ~ pg. 41

    Ok, so what “cage” does man live in, according to Eldredge? He doesn’t say here, but he does in the two previous chapters. And, it is not in captivity to sin, nor does he speak of being slaves of righteousness, either, which is what the word of God teaches that we are slaves to the one or to the other (See Ro. 6). In fact, in 2 Peter 2:19 we read that a man is a slave to whatever controls him, and natural man is controlled by his sinful passions and desires (See Gal. 5:24). Rather, the cage Eldredge believes all men live in is their homes, Eden (implied), church, in some cases; norms of society, religion, “ought” and “should,” and neat, orderly and controlled environments, etc. Instead, he believes men should be wild, untamed, undomesticated, and that they should follow the natural inclinations of their own hearts and desires, and he teaches that they can trust their own hearts and desires, too (See previous writings on chapters 1 & 2 of “Wild at Heart” – referenced below).

    The Heart of Man

    And, then Eldredge says:

    “How come when men look into their hearts they don’t discover something valiant and dangerous, but instead find anger, lust and fear?” “The real life of the average man seems a universe away from the desires of his heart.”~ pg. 41

    In order to answer that question, which he posed concerning why men don’t discover something valiant (brave, courageous or noble) when they look into their hearts, but instead find rage, lust and fear, he quotes from Thoreau; from a line from the movie, “Braveheart;” from Ed Sissman; and from the poet, Edwin Robinson, but not from the word of God.

    So, what does the Bible teach with regard to the human heart?

    The heart is deceitful above all things,
    and desperately sick;
    who can understand it?
    “I the Lord search the heart
    and test the mind,
    to give every man according to his ways,
    according to the fruit of his deeds.” ~ Jeremiah 17:9-10

    We cannot trust our own hearts, because the heart of the flesh of man is deceitful and desperately sick (wicked). We don’t even know our own human hearts, so we can’t look to our human hearts to find our answers, or to know who we are. The Bible describes the human heart as wicked (Ro. 1:21), unrepentant and stubborn (Ro. 2:5), easily deceived (Ro. 16:18; Jas. 1:26), hardened against God (Eph. 4:18) and evil and unbelieving which turns away from God (Heb. 3:12). Even the regenerated heart, which is being strengthened by God’s grace, through faith (Heb. 13:9), and purified by the Spirit of God (1 Jn. 1:7), is still subject to deception and sin against God, otherwise there would be no need to warn us against being deceived or to warn us against falling back into our sinful ways (1 Co. 10:12).

    One of the biggest problems with Eldredge’s teaching is that he makes no distinction between natural man and the regenerated man, but he clumps them together as one and assumes that they are all on the same playing field, but they are not. Why does natural man see lust, anger and fear when he looks into his heart? - Because the heart of natural man is sinful, and because we (all of humankind) have been born into sin due to the sin of Adam. So, natural man is not going to see the goodness of God, i.e. what is noble, honorable, moral, decent, and upright in his heart, but he will see what is sinful. Yet, the regenerated heart has been set free from slavery to sin, and sin no longer has dominion (control) over the life of the believer in Jesus Christ, because Jesus Christ conquered sin in his death and in his resurrection, and he set us free from the slavery (control) of sin.

    So, if man looks into his heart and he sees lust, rage and fear, it is either because he does not have a heart transformed of the Spirit of God - away from living in sin and toward walking in Christ’s righteousness and holiness – or it is because, as a follower of Christ, he has wandered off to follow after the desires of his flesh once more and to follow the gods of men instead of to trust in Almighty God, and/or it is because he, as man still living in a flesh body, is still vulnerable to sin, i.e. we won’t be perfect until Christ returns for his bride (See 1 Co. 13:10; Php. 3:12). Yet, we should be daily fleeing our youthful lusts and pursuing “righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart” (2 Tim. 2:22). And, daily we should submit ourselves to God, resist the devil, draw near to God, turn from our sin, purify our hearts, grieve over sin, and humble ourselves before God (See Jas. 4:7-9). And, we should not yield to sin and/or lie to cover it up.

    What is Man Made For?

    Why is he here?

    And, then Eldredge says,

    “If a man does not find those things for which his heart is made, if he is never invited to live for them from his deep heart, he will look for them in some other way.” ~ pg. 44

    So, what does Eldredge suggest man’s heart is made for? For one, he suggests that every man has a battle to fight, an adventure to live and a beauty to rescue, which is the basic premise of his whole book, upon which he brings forth his (and others’) thoughts on the subject. Then, he asks the question, “What is a man for?” (Pg. 48) He then says:

    “Why does God create Adam? What is a man for? If you know what something is designed to do, then you know its purpose in life… Desire reveals design, and design reveals destiny. In the case of human beings, our design is also revealed by our desires… (pg 48) The secret longing of your heart… those are the things you were made to do. That’s what you’re here for… Are we willing to live with the level of risk God invites us to?” (Pg. 49)

    Some examples he gave of man’s “secret longing” – the things he was made for and the purpose for which he is here on this earth – were things such as “build a boat and sail it,” “write a symphony and play it,” etc. He said that boys don’t have to be told to do these “for the simple reason that it is his purpose” (pg. 49). Really? - A man’s purpose is to build, create, explore, and conquer, and his desires reveal his design and destiny? Well, that part has an element of truth to it, but not in the way Eldredge intended… or did he? Man’s original design was in the image of God, but sin entered man through Adam, and thus man is born into sin, now bearing the image of Adam, separated from God, and thus destined to eternity in hell without God.

    So, what is our purpose and why are we here?

    We are here to fear God and to keep his commandments (and to walk in his ways), “for this is the whole duty of man” (Eccl. 12:13; cf. Pr. 1:7; Ps. 128:1-6); that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, and “every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father” (Phil. 2:10-11; cf. Ro. 14:11); for the glory (honor, praise, reputation, and character) of God (Is. 43:7; Ps. 102:18; Rev. 5:13); that none should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet. 3:9); to know God and Jesus Christ (Ro. 1; 2 Co. 4:6); to present ourselves, as believers in Christ, to God as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to him, which is our service of worship to him, no longer conformed to the pattern of this world, but transformed by the renewing of our minds (Rom. 12:1-2; cf. 1 Thess. 5:23; Phil. 3:10-11); and to put on the new self in Christ, “created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness” (Eph. 4:17-24; cf. Ro. 6; Gal. 2:20; Tit. 2:11-14; 1 Jn. 1-5) etc.

    Eldredge does not even hint at any of this, i.e. his listed purpose for man and the things for which his heart is made did not include the fear of God, the keeping of his commandments, walking in his ways, humbling ourselves before God, submitting ourselves to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, knowing him, surrendering to his will, worshiping him with our lives, living holy and pleasing lives to him, and living such lives in Christ Jesus, in the power of the Spirit within us, that we will be for the praise, honor and glory of God. Man cannot find his purpose in life apart from an intimate relationship with his God and creator, Jesus Christ, by God’s grace, via the blood of Jesus Christ shed on the cross for our sins, and by faith which humbles itself, submits to the cross and surrenders to the working of the Spirit of God in transforming our hearts away from sin to living and walking in the righteousness of Christ.

    And, man IS invited to live out these Biblical purposes for which he was made via God putting within him the knowledge of God, so man is without excuse (Ro. 1) and through the presentation of the gospel of Jesus Christ, in which we are invited to accept what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross in dying for our sins, and to do so by faith in Jesus Christ – a faith which submits to his Lordship and his work of transformation in our hearts.

    The Fall of Man

    On pages 50-52 of his book, Eldredge gives his rendition of the fall of man and the subsequent effect that fall has had on all of humanity. He said, with regard to Adam’s sin against Almighty God:

    “Adam fails; he fails Eve, and the rest of humanity… He won’t risk, he won’t fight, and he won’t rescue Eve… He denied his very nature and went passive. And, every man after him, every son of Adam, carries in his heart now the same failure. Every man repeats the sin of Adam, every day. We won’t risk, we won’t fight, and we won’t rescue Eve.”

    He continues, “The evidence is clear: Adam and Eve’s fall sent a tremor through the human race. A fatal flaw entered the original, and it’s been passed on to every son and daughter. Thus every little boy and every little girl comes into the world set up for a loss of heart… Every man is haunted by the question, ‘Am I really a man? Have I got what it takes… when it counts?” (pg. 57)

    Again, I say “Really?” Are we supposed to accept this idea presented here as the reality of Adam’s sin? And, does every man truly repeat the sin of Adam every day? Is the “fatal flaw” that entered man through Adam that we, as humans, now come into this world set up to lose our human hearts? Well, in a way we do, because of sin we must be crucified with Christ and our fleshly hearts must give way to the control of the Holy Spirit within us if we are to truly live, discover who we are, why we are here, and if we are to fulfill the purpose for which we were created by God. But Adam’s sin passed on to us is not what causes us to lose our human (fleshly) hearts, nor should we try to regain our fleshly hearts. We don’t have what it takes if we don’t have Christ. It is not our hearts we are to seek after. We are to seek after God with all our hearts, to know him, and to desire to do his will, not ours.

    So, what truly was the sin of Adam (and Eve)? Where is Eldredge missing the mark here?

    If we read the creation story and read in Genesis 3 concerning the fall of man, I believe we can get a pretty clear picture of what Adam’s sin really entailed, and why God thus banished him from the garden and put all of mankind and the earth under a curse – See: 3&version=ESV.

    Although Eve was the one deceived, and she was the first to partake of the forbidden tree’s fruit, Adam was standing right there with her, watching the whole thing, and listening to Satan’s lies, too. And, he also partook. The first thing Satan did was to get Eve to doubt God’s words, that he didn’t really say what he said, and that the end result really would not be what God said, either. Then, as Satan does, he tantalized the woman by telling her that God was holding out on her, i.e. that he was somehow keeping something good from her, and that if she just didn’t listen to him, but if she followed her own heart and her own desires, then her eyes would be opened, and she would be like God, knowing good and evil.

    So, Eve saw the tree now through different eyes. She no longer saw it as something she “ought” not to do, but as something she had the freedom to do. She (or they) now doubted God and his words, listened to a deceiving spirit, and thought they could disobey God and still have eternal life. Wow! They (or she) wanted to hear the “new truth,” because it sounded so much better than the “old truth.” The new truth did not require obedience or submission to God’s commands. It was more pleasing, felt good, and was delightful to the eyes. In fact, the “new truth” said they could be gods themselves, and thus they didn’t really need God any more. They thought that eating of the tree, evidently, would make them wiser than God, for their actions certainly showed they thought they knew better than God.

    And, then, to top it off, when they heard God walking in the garden, they hid from God, and when confronted with their sin, they blamed someone else for their sin. Wow! So, what was their sin? Ultimately, it came down to a rejection of God as their Lord and unbelief in him and in his words to them, and then a refusal to obey him. And, it is such unbelief that keeps each and every human separated from God and bound for hell, if they do not come to genuine faith in Jesus Christ in all humility and repentance, allowing the Spirit of God to transform their hearts away from sin to a walk in Christ’s righteousness and holiness.

    Making it Personal

    You know, Eldredge’s teaching sounds a whole lot like the voice of Satan. He puts all men on the same playing field with God, whether saved or unsaved, and convinces them that they all bear (wear) the image of God/Christ, and then he distorts who God is and lies about God’s divine character, making God like man. Then he tells man that he is in a cage (trapped), not because of sin, but that “Eden” is the figure of what holds him in bondage, and that ever since God put man inside the garden, he has longed to get out – to return to the “natural” state from which he came – to be wild, untamed, and undomesticated.

    Then, he invites man to look for, discover, and to follow after the desires of his own heart; to find those (earthly) things for which his heart is made, and to live for them from his deep heart. The path he suggests for finding what man is for, what he is designed to do, and his purpose in life, is for man to know and to understand that his (our) design is revealed by his (our) own (human) desires, which he also clumsily tries to suggest are also God’s desires for man and/or that they represent God’s character. And, he goes so far as to say that the secret longing of our hearts are what we are made to do… it is what we’re here for. Wow!

    He does not counsel man, though, to find his purpose in life, the reason why he is here, and what he is designed for, in an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ, by God’s grace, through faith, in prayer, or in the word of truth, God’s holy word, the Bible. What a tragedy!

    Give God the Glory / An Original Work

    Based off Psalm 19 / March 10, 2014

    All of creation now proclaims:
    “Give God the glory; honor His name!”
    Each day the stars in heav’n above
    Show forth His wisdom; tell of His love.

    They do not speak. They have no voice.
    Yet, they declare we have a choice:
    “Worship the God of heav’n above;
    Believe in Jesus; trust in His love.”

    God’s word is perfect, just and good,
    Refreshing souls who trust in the Lord;
    Makes wise the simple; radiant -
    Lighting our lives with God’s righteousness.

    Joy to the heart His words now speak;
    Pure and enduring, now we seek.
    They are more precious than our gold;
    Sweeter than honey; never grow old.

    Keeping the word brings great reward.
    By the word Jesus speaks and He warns,
    Convicting hearts of all their sin;
    Forgiving all who call upon Him.

    Praying You keep me, Lord, from sins.
    May they not rule my life again.
    Then will I walk in all Your ways,
    Following Jesus all of my days.

  5. I disagree with the part where it " not in submission, surrender and obedience (in the Spirit of God) ". and I've never heard him say this. But the rest of it... men longing to go out and hunt, conquer, fight, etc.... almost every man I know feels this way.
    But that doesn't make them ungodly... It was certainly true in Adam's case.

    Even some Christian women find comfort in romance, financial security, and have a deep seated need to be loved affectionately,
    that doesn't make them ungodly either. We can find these things in Christ... (seek ye first the kingdom of God.... and "all these
    things will be added to you". )

    The point of this is.... men in the Bible didn't just sit around doing nothing. (Not even Jacob, despite Lanolin's example)
    They were warriors, prophets going against Baal, standing up for God in the fiery furnace, fighting Philistines,
    Breaking temple pillars, killing giants, rebuild city walls, etc...

    There is a huge movement to make men into "pansies" (excuse the expression) who don't want to do anything, much less
    stand up for anything.
  6. #6 Lanolin, Nov 25, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2018
    Hmm unregenerate man is wild like adam...but Jesus is the last adam.

    And Jesus was no pansy.
    In fact Judas was after financial security and he was a thief.

    As for women, unregenerate woman are after those wordly things...Jezebel was definitely after those things.

    I dont agree there is a huge movement to make men into pansies, that isnt a 'movement' if they aint moving lol.
    I think john eldrige maybe just doesnt want to be lumped in with gay men?! But that doesnt mean its cool to be a restless wanderer. It just means you dont know what you doing.

    Speaking as woman, is finding comfort in romance and financial security and needy affection ungodly, well to be blunt it can be. Lets see...what drives a woman to commit adultery or become a prostitute. Why would Jesus talk to a woman that was about to be stoned, or one that hid the fact she had five husbands and was living with one who wasnt.

    Are these books trying to reach these people and show them Jesus, OR are they trying to speak to christians whove put off the old man (and woman) and put on the new and get them to go backward. Like a dog returning to its vomit!

    It seems to me some men think its just manly to do stuff like join the army. Well sure go be a hero but Jesus actually says we dont fight flesh and blood and our war is not fought carnally.

    What does this mean sit round do nothing, well no, you fight on your knees and pray. God can give you His power, but he didnt use it to show you how to be macho. Its always for a purpose, for example healing others and other miracles all for His glory. Not your own. I dont really read anything of eldeidge that suggests he knows what the anointing is, or what a mans strength is actually for.

    Just to add, well you could be a stubborn mule who wont do anything, but you could also be a wild horse who will run off. However both these animals need bits in their mouths to restrain them and bridles to do stuff. Psalm 32:9

    We arent to be like these animals...Jesus calls us his sheep. Sheep do not have bits in their mouths.

    Bac if every man you know feels that way then you might not know many christians...they need Jesus and they need a new heart.

    Jesus doesnt ask men to fight hunt and conquer. That they may long to do this isnt a sign that this is what God actually designed them to do as their ultimate purpose. What does Jesus command us to do...go out into the world and tell the gospel and love one another as Jesus has loved us.

    This might mean building a boat and sailing it spread the gospel! Or writing a symphony for His glory like Handels messiah. Whatever we do, do it for the Lord to show His glory.

    Not really sure what mr eldridges uprbringing was but if he was told he couldnt do anything..well he has some curses to break over his life methinks. The thing is he probably relates to women the way adam related to eve not that he didnt rescue her but actually disobeyed God and joined in with her sin. It takes two to tango, as they say.
    Sent from a mobile device
    Sue J Love likes this.
  7. Well, if it weren't for the whole of what he said in this book, and in others he has written, you could maybe write off what he said as being as innocent as what you believe it is, but it isn't innocent. Certainly there is nothing ungodly about a man hunting for food and doing other manly things which are not contrary to scripture, and certainly there is nothing ungodly about a woman desiring to be loved or to want to have financial security, as long as she is not desiring romance outside her marriage and as long as she is not putting her trust in financial security and not in God. But, I do agree with you that there is a movement to make men emasculated, and a lot of that comes from getting them addicted to porn. Then, they don't stand up for what is right because they know they are trapped into doing what is wrong. We definitely have a great void for godly men in our day.
  8. Very well stated, Lanolin!
  9. To all who will read this thread, please understand that Sue J Love's views are just that -- her views. If you notice, she takes great liberty to talk about the "not-so-subtle message being given to men" and goes on to detail (I left that part out for the sake of shortening the comment) what she believes the quoted part from Wild at Heart really means. This is her freedom of choice to have this view and this mindset; however, there are many, many strong believers in Christ who have benefited from the Eldredge's ministry and who would never interpret the quoted passage that way.

    Sue J Love, no offense and I wish you the best. You are free to your views and I learned a long time ago not to engage in debates on matters like this; however, I do feel led to share my point of view for those who might be a bit confused. I would much rather err on the side of believing the best about a brother or sister in Christ before labeling them a heretic.

    I have a feeling if you sat down with Mr. Eldredge and told him how you interpreted that quote from the book, he would do his best to assure you that that is not at all what he's saying. I've never had the impression from reading any of his writings that he was suggesting a man (or woman) should take the liberty to sin at the expense of God's grace and in an effort to find his true heart. That is not his message at all.

    Actually, the more I re-read your original post, the more I think your sentence says best what he really is trying to say: "On a surface read it sounds like he is merely encouraging men to be men and to enjoy God’s creation and to, perhaps, exercise their freedom in Christ and to not be brought underneath the bondage of legalism." Yes! I think this sentence sums up beautifully what he really is trying to say!! We shouldn't read deeper and look for something heretical that isn't there.

    One in Christ with you -
  10. There are plenty more quotes from his book which i quoted in these 4 writings (posts 1-4) which are not open to interpretation and which reveal his heretical teaching.
  11. What I see from the quotes and opinions given is a misunderstanding by Mr. Eldredge of what man is and where he came from. His three near essentials for men are things built up, as I see it, into males by culture, by history, by families, etc. The same could be said about women and whatever someone might call their near essentials. Our history, our culture, our families, our friends, etc. do affect the way we are formed and what we are interested in or even what we believe we would like to be [vocationally]. Other than by comparing physical differences it would be difficult separate, as I see it, the men from the women if it were not for all of the history of separation and different interests or callings that have already separated them.

    As I said there really are differences between men and women, but the ones Mr's Eldredge emphasizes, it seems to me, did not come from inheritance but from environment. What these differences really are is not so important [to a believer] except insofar as they impact what a person needs to become what God wants that person to be now. The Bible contains what we need to know, but even the Bible can be and often is misunderstood as we see by different sects and denominations among people who all call themselves, Christians. Direction in understanding the Bible is available through the Holy Spirit.

    There is never a better place to start to become like God than with God Himself, I know that some psychologists have worked hard to help people and perhaps they have, but that is not the Way to God even if it may at times prove useful in that journey.

    The Way to God is the most important. As @Sue J Love pointed out before the first sins of Adam and Eve, they really were like God. From that sin forward men and women as a whole have moved further away from God rather than closer to Him. We cannot find our own roots outside of God and we cannot approach God more closely without God's help.

    My own primary reading and studying is in the scriptures themselves. There are useful tools in secondary places, but even the best them must remain secondary. From what I have seen quoted I would probably never read this man's book. If it were before my eyes I might give it a look, but I do that with a lot of books and then when they strike me wrong [hopefully according to the Spirit in me] I set them aside. There are more books available to read than there is time available, so should we not we selective and careful?
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  12. #12 Lanolin, Dec 2, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2018
    Well it's better to read the Bible first, wouldn't you say and let God determine what is manly and what is womanly than try and make our own ideas. Aside from men and women, God asks us to who are called to become like Him, of godly character, so am not sure that it matters whether we are male or female, we are all originally made in His image. (this is why mankind, refers to humankind - both male and female not just male).

    The new testament does teach we are all one in Christ Jesus, there is no male nor female, so, not sure what Mr Elridge is trying to teach here.

    If he's saying well males are stronger and females are the weaker vessel then yes, since God had made Adam and Eve was made from just Adams rib so females are more fragile, but --- our physical strength or capacity doesn't negate the spiritual power we are given from above.

    For example, Gideon was not a very strong man, but God led him to win the battle. Also was it Jael who went and killed the enemy, so you can't say that women aren't warriors and meant to stay home all the time either.

    Some peoples cultures are very set in their ways and traditional, but God doesn't see that men need to be one way to be a man and woman another. Joan of Arc for example, she was brave and she was a woman, was she going outside of the way God made her when she was actually standing up for what God had called her to do.

    In Africa, many people have observed that men just sit around being lazy while women do all the hard physical work, fetching water, cooking, etc. Why doesn't Mr Eldridge write a book about men called lazy at heart.

    I don't think you can find your true heart unless God gives you a new one - He's got to circumcise it. in the Bible, it's shown in His word that God doesn't give you a 'wild' heart. He gives you a pure heart.

    If anyone knows anything about gardening, and soil, which Jesus often referred to the state of our hearts, wouldn't a wild one be full of weeds. A good heart, that has good soil, will bear fruit.

    Sue when you said men are emasculated by watching porn, well isn't that a 'wild' thing to do. People will say did you do the 'wild thing' meaning fornication. Perhaps this wasn't Mr eldridges intention but he's got to be careful about his words. Worldy people think they need to go wild and go to Las Vegas or whatever, or go bush, where they can hunt and kill but actually its not necessary to do that if you are looking after your own flocks properly in the first place.

    Domestication isn't a bad thing that is what being a husband is all about. Good husbandry means to look after - your wife, your children, your land, your animals. Don't delegate this responsibility to someone else. It doesn't mean you can't have adventures, but being a dad and husband does come with responsibilities. If you don't want that then don't get married.
    Sue J Love likes this.

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