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Discussion in 'Seeking Jesus' started by Hammmzzzaaa, May 22, 2011.

  1. Hi all.
    hope everyone is fine.
    i just have a question.

    do christians believe that jesus is God?
  2. Yes. By the way, are you joking with that question?
  3. I'm sure you already know what Christians believe in (and don't believe in) given that you're from Egypt.

    Jesus and God are one.
  4. Well I am not joking ofcourse but there is just a small thing that I don't understand I can't understand how u say that Jesus is god and Jesus says in the bible `I ascend unto My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' how does Jesus say my god? Does god have a god?
  5. #5 Property Of God, May 22, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2011
    Your question is very good, you're asking about the Trinity, and I know it confuses a lot of muslims, but I suppose you didn't read all the Bible and only took parts that confused you, I'm not assuming, but I'm trying to just make sense of it.

    I hope it's okay by admin and the moderators that I can post a link from and if that's not alright by them, please remove my link cause I can't answer your question with a few lines I write.

    This is the link, and please check out this website, it has tons of questions, and a portion of the website dedicated just to answer any question asked by muslims.

    Please if you have any more questions, feel free to ask and don't be discouraged, we'll try our best to answer all your questions :)

    “And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil)” (Surah 5:46).

    The Bible is all true and God breathed.
  6. Thanx "property of God" for ur care and i really appreciate ur cooporation, but unfortunately u didn't answer my question.

    I am really not asking about the trinity or about jesus being son of God.

    U said that u believe that jesus is God.

    my question is how does God say "I ascend to my God'

    how does God have a God, my question is on this specific verse.
  7. Hello Hammmzzzaa,
    Here will be the issue for you in attempting to understand Christianity and especially the Holy Bible. You cannot single out one verse of scripture by its self and come to an understanding of what it means, much less than compare it against others to find contradictions. You will need to take into context not only what comes before and after the particular verse, but by the entire scriptures as well. That is why even well intentioned Christians have issues when it comes to separating a single scripture for understanding. Christian scholars have and continue to study scripture all their lives and will probably tell you that there is more unknown than there is known in their knowledge of God's Holy Word

    However, my answer to your initial question, is yes.
  8. #8 Property Of God, May 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2011

    My friend, please try to understand what I'm saying, you say you're not asking about the Trinity when the Trinity explains that verse you're quoting, Jesus the son, God the father, and the holy spirit, they are all one, but they all have different roles.

    There are other places He calls God His God. In John 20:17 and Revelation 3:2,12, Jesus calls God "My God." Why would God call Himself "My God"? It has to do with Christ's relationship to His Father. Even though Christ is the eternal God Himself incarnate, He is still a different person from the Father. As a man and as man's representative (Son of Man), Jesus' person was dependent on the Father and, like us, looked to the Father for strength, guidance, wisdom, etc. Therefore, God the Father was the God of Jesus. The Father is the God of the Son, but it doesn't imply inferiority, only a difference in roles.

    Jesus in many times called God, my father, and my God (to fulfill the prophecies in the old testament)

    I guess it's difficult for you to understand and I totally get this, but if you really want to understand, you gotta learn about the trinity. God isn't someone we are dating and we'll figure out after we talk to Him over coffee, if God was so easy to understand, we'd be greater than Him and He wouldn't be God. Would He?
  9. actually my friend this is exactly what I am doing, I have many many other verses in the bible that I have questions about, i just decided to start by this verse, actually when I read the biography of Jesus in the bible I found that it emphasis Muslims idea about Jesus more than it emphasis the christians idea. I know that u will think that I am joking but this is really true.
  10. Do u really mean this?
  11. Question: Did Jesus think of Himself as less than God? (John 14:38)

    Challenge: Orthodox Christianity confesses Jesus is both fully man and fully God. Yet, Jesus said in John 14:28, “My Father is greater than I.” How can the Father be greater if Jesus is equal to God?

    One would think that Jesus was stating that He was less than God, but this is not so. By identifying Himself as the Son of God He was identifying Himself as God not less than God. Look at John 10:30 in which He states “I and the Father are one.” Yet still some would still say that by identifying Himself as “Son” that He was saying that He was not God. If you decide to ignore John 10:30 then when He identifies Himself as “Son of Man” Mat 8:20, Mat 9:6, Mat 12:8, Mat 14:40, is He saying that He is less than man? No! There are enough scripture references John 1:1-2, Col 1:15-19 “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. (16) For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. (17) He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. (18) And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. (19) For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,”

    John 8:58 - “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

    That our Lord by this expression asserted his divinity and eternal existence, as the great I AM, appears evident from the use of the present tense, instead of the past tense, from its being in answer to the Jews, who enquired whether he had seen Abraham, and from its being thus understood by the multitude, who were angered at it to such a degree that they took up stones to stone him. The ancient Jews not only believed that the Messiah was superior to and Lord of all the patriarchs, and even of angels, but that his celestial nature existed with God from whom it emanated, before the creation, and that the creation was effected by his ministry. Exd 3:14, Isa 44:6, Isa 46:9

    In turn Isa 48:11 “For my own sake, for my own sake, I do this. How can I let myself be defamed? I will not yield my glory to another. The main point being that God does not share His glory with anyone else. Now look at John 17:5 “And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.” And putting them both side by side and you can’t help but come to the conclusion that Jesus is God.

    Tim 3:16 “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory”

    Here in probably defines it best. A mystery of godliness! Because you may not understand it, and might be unwilling to accept it, yet we still believe it to be so. Therein is the ability to believe and the difficulty for you to understand. For it was by Grace that we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ. So that no man may boast that he had anything to do with it! Faith Friend! Would I give you what little faith I have, I would so you could see as I now see, that you might believe as I believe. God has blessed you to look and continue to search, if searching you are, in truth, for His truth. Not the truth of man, but of God! Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia!

    If at all in the above you have been insulted, I beg your pardon. I can only give voice to what the Holy Spirit would have me communicate to you through His Holy Word. That you may receive this with the friendship of one who has wrestled as you are now with understanding that can only be understood through faith in Christ Jesus, as Lord and Savior.
  12. Hello Hamm.

    Why does Christianty use the Hebrew Old Testament and Greek New Testament. Read the following information please Hammmzzzaaa.

    The Scrolls are for the most part, written in Hebrew, but there are many written in Aramaic. Aramaic was the common language of the Jews of Palestine for the last two centuries B.C. and of the first two centuries A.D. The discovery of the Scrolls has greatly enhanced our knowledge of these two languages. In addition, there are a few texts written in Greek.

    The Dead Sea Scrolls were most likely written by the Essenes during the period from about 200 B.C, +/- 100 years, carbon dated.

    Fragments of every book of the Hebrew canon (Old Testament) have been discovered except for the book of Esther.

    There are now identified among the scrolls, 19 copies of the Book of Isaiah, 25 copies of Deuteronomy and 30 copies of the Psalms .

    These scrolls are obviously copies of earlier scrolls.

    The Dead Sea Scrolls enhance our knowledge of both Judaism and Christianity. They represent a non-rabbinic form of Judaism and provide a wealth of comparative material for New Testament scholars, including many important parallels to the Jesus movement. They show Christianity to be rooted in Judaism and have been called the evolutionary link between the two.

    According to the traditional Muslim view, the origin and development of the Holy Qur'an began with Muhammad receiving divine revelations in 610 AD. According to traditional Muslim history the verses of the Qur'an were written on palm trees and fiber and memorized during the life of Muhammad and collected shortly after his death. During the caliphate of Uthman the Qur'an was standardized in 653 AD. Slight developments in dotting and other punctuation happened during the seventh and eighth centuries. Muslim and some western scholars hold this account to be true.

    According to modern Islamic theology, the Qur'an is a revelation very specifically in Arabic, and so it should only be recited in the Arabic language.

    A problem the Quran has is that it was written to late.

    The Quran has the first five books of the Hebrew Old Testament!

    Hebrew: A member or descendant of a Semitic people claiming descent from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; an Israelite; a Jew.

    This is what research has illustrated Hammmzzzaaa.

    What do you think so far Hammmzzzaaa?
  13. Hello Hammmzzzaa,Why are Muslims being disobedient to the father ?
  14. Dear "Christ 4 ever"

    all the verses and all things u wrote i have read it before, and i really look forward to discuss these verses with u verse by verse.

    but please let us finish discussing the verse i started first, then let us take verse by verse and discuss.


    How does God say " `I ascend unto My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' Does god have a god?

    can anyone please explain to me what did Jesus mean by saying my
  15. Why not ask Jesus what He meant?
  16. Dear "David 777"

    to be honest, the issue u brought up is really important and needs a long discussion, but let us please concentrate on the point we are discussing then discuss this issue later.
  17. Dear Hammmzzzaaa.

    Understood, here is the answer to your question.

    Philippians 2:6-11

    "who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

    Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
  18. Well "David777"

    I really didn't get what does that verse has to do with my question, but let us agree first about something.

    Let us agree on the definition of "God"

    I searched in the dictionary and I found a definition for "God" that says:
    God is The creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being

    do u agree with me on this definition??
  19. You're still asking because we didn't answer you, or because you honestly didn't understand? Or you don't believe? You're having a problem with seeing that God can become a human, because the Koran is written in such a way to make God appear with so much anger and always telling people to kill for His name, of course muslims would have a problem accepting this aspect of God.

    Jesus, even though being God, submitted to the other person of God, his Father (Philippians 2:6, John 12:49-50). Jesus was in nearly constant prayer and communication to the Father, as you can find by studying through any of the gospels. He calls attention to himself, but even more so to the Father. In John 14:6-7, he says "No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well." I will have to say that at first, it is hard to see how it is logical that Jesus is God, yet he prays to God the Father. Yet, this is exactly what is taught in the New Testament. You may have to chew on this one a while to take it in. I suggest you give the Gospel of John a very careful reading in this light.
  20. Hamza, I don't think that you are joking.
    But I'm interested to know in what way (do you think) does the Bible emphasize the muslims idea about Jesus more than the christians idea?

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