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Jesus is not the Holy Spirit

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Loyal
Both Jesus and the Holy are a part of the trinity, they are both God. But Jesus is not the Holy Spirit.
They have different roles, different purposes and come into our lives differently.

Jesus is flesh. The Holy Spirit is not.
1 Jn 4:2; By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
Luke 24:39; "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

The Holy Spirit could not come while Jesus was on the earth.
John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

Jesus is in heaven.
Eph 1:20; which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
Col 3:1; Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

We are supposed to ask for the Holy Spirit.

Luke 11:13; "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

I don't think there is anything wrong with asking Jesus into your life, in fact I think this is a good thing. But it's not the same thing as asking the Holy Spirit into your life.

In fact there is something called the "Spirit of Christ".
Rom 8:9; However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Why do I bring this up? I think there are many Christians who don't know the difference between the two.
They assume because they have asked Jesus into their lives they automatically have the Holy Spirit also. Yet in the Bible everyone who was saved received the Holy Spirit at a different time sometimes after they were saved. (kind of like water baptism). (Three exceptions to this, John the Baptist, Elizabeth and Jesus Himself). Everyone else received the Holy Spirit after they were saved.


We sometimes see verses that talk about people who already have the Holy Spirit,
1 Cor 3:16; Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
1 Cor 6:19; Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

I don't think God keeps the Holy Spirit away from anyone who is genuinely looking for it ( Luke 11:13; )
 
Loyal
Speaking out against Jesus, is NOT the same thing as speaking against the Holy Spirit.
Luke 12:10; "And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him.

Mary and the apostles did not receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit when they got saved.
In fact it wasn't until Acts 2:4; that they received the Holy Spirit.
The disciples at Ephesus did not received the Holy Spirit when they got saved. (Acts 19:1-6;)
Cornelius was a devout man who feared God (Acts 10:1-2; ) But he did not received the Holy Spirit either until Acts 10:44-47;

So it seems it's possible to be saved, and yet not have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Is it possible to have the fruit of the Spirit ( Gal 5:22-23; ) if you don't have the Holy Spirit?
Is it possible to have the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:8-10; ) if you don't have the Holy Spirit?
Is it possible to be led by the Holy Spirit ( Gal 5:18; ) if you don't have the Holy Spirit?

I think many Christians struggle with this, and some wonder why they are unable to have the joy, power and peace some other Christians seem to have.

2 Tim 1:14; Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you.
 
Member
@B-A-C
I agree with you B-A-C, but they are all tied in greatly with each other. These verses below are the ones I read time and time again in regards to the Holy Spirit and Jesus. If one loves Jesus, and follows his commandments, he sends the holy spirit to you.

John 14:15-31
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

“I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. In that day you will know that I am in my Father and you in me, and I in you. Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.

“These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. 28 You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you before it takes place, so that when it does take place you may believe. 30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me, 31 but I do as the Father has commanded me, so that the world may know that I love the Father. Rise, let us go from here.

-Margo
 
Loyal
The last half of John 14 is probably the best passage for this discourse.

Acts 5:32; "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

Can we have the Holy Spirit without knowing Jesus? Can we know Jesus without following His teachings?
1 Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

1 Jn 3:24; The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

which comes back around to John 14.

John 14:15; "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
John 14:16; "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
John 14:17; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

John 14:20; "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
John 14:21; "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

Jesus mentions the law and the commandments over 24 times in the New Testament.
Which seems to be a contradiction of Gal 5:18; unless they mean the same thing.
 
Member
Speaking out against Jesus, is NOT the same thing as speaking against the Holy Spirit.
Luke 12:10; "And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him.
I believe that if you trust in Christ, you cannot commit blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. I see the trinity as going hand in hand, all equally important and connected (shows us the importance of relationship!). Knowing God's truth, to know this goodness, to see it, and then to blatantly deny it without end, for me would be blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, it's a really scary sin, because this means you have seen the truth, felt it, but (for whatever uber scary reason) choose to turn your back on it and claim it to be of the devil/ deny it.

Luke 12:33-34
33 Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

John 15:26
26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me
 
Active

RJ

Both Jesus and the Holy are a part of the trinity, they are both God. But Jesus is not the Holy Spirit.
They have different roles, different purposes and come into our lives differently.

Jesus is flesh. The Holy Spirit is not.
1 Jn 4:2; By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
Luke 24:39; "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

The Holy Spirit could not come while Jesus was on the earth.
John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

Jesus is in heaven.
Eph 1:20; which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
Col 3:1; Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

We are supposed to ask for the Holy Spirit.

Luke 11:13; "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

I don't think there is anything wrong with asking Jesus into your life, in fact I think this is a good thing. But it's not the same thing as asking the Holy Spirit into your life.

In fact there is something called the "Spirit of Christ".
Rom 8:9; However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Why do I bring this up? I think there are many Christians who don't know the difference between the two.
They assume because they have asked Jesus into their lives they automatically have the Holy Spirit also. Yet in the Bible everyone who was saved received the Holy Spirit at a different time sometimes after they were saved. (kind of like water baptism). (Three exceptions to this, John the Baptist, Elizabeth and Jesus Himself). Everyone else received the Holy Spirit after they were saved.


We sometimes see verses that talk about people who already have the Holy Spirit,
1 Cor 3:16; Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
1 Cor 6:19; Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

I don't think God keeps the Holy Spirit away from anyone who is genuinely looking for it ( Luke 11:13; )
I loose interest right away when you say; "Jesus is flesh. The Holy Spirit is not."
Wrong!...Jesus is now Jesus Christ, the former Jesus who was ressurected into a heavenly body, which is a combination of raised and incorruptible body join with his spirit, which is the Holy Spirit. In the begining jesus was the word and the word was God John 1:1 . Why do you continue to ignore or not beleive verses like the following:
John 1:1
Matthew 1:23
Isaiah 9:6
2 Peter 1:1
John 8:24
John 14:9-11
Titus 2:13
1 Corinthians 2:10-11 ( is not the spirit of God not God)
Psalm 139: 7-8 ( this says that the Holy Spirit is omniscient, who but God is omniscient)
Ephesians 4:30 ( the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God, he is the same as God)
Why do you repeatedly deny the deity of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, they are one in the same, they are God. What purpose do you have to continue this denial?
 
Member
In reference to the spirit (lowercase) it does not have a body. He is speaking of the soul/spirit.

In reference to the Spirit (uppercase, or the Holy Spirit) we see the Spirit of Christ. Which is also the Spirit of God.

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the same.
 
Loyal
This isn't a question of trinity or the Holy Spirit being God. The Holy Spirit did not become flesh. He did not die. He is not Jesus.
Jesus isn't the Father, the Father isn't the Spirit, and the Spirit isn't Jesus (however all three are God).

1 Tim 2:5; For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

John 11:41; So they removed the stone. Then Jesus raised His eyes, and said, "Father, I thank You that You have heard Me.
John 11:42; "I knew that You always hear Me; but because of the people standing around I said it, so that they may believe that You sent Me."
 
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Active

RJ

This isn't a question of trinity or the Holy Spirit being God. The Holy Spirit did not become flesh. He did not die. He is not Jesus.
Jesus isn't the Father, the Father isn't the Spirit, and the Spirit isn't Jesus (however all three are God).

1 Tim 2:5; shows Jesus is not the Father.
I have given you ample scripture to prove that Jesus is God. I gave just given you 7 of many more verse that prove that jesus is God; even jesus himself says that he is God but I guess all those scriptures and even Jesus word is not credible to you.
I honestly mean no disrespect but I would like to know, what type of Christian are you?
 
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Member

ATP

I have given you ample scripture to prove that Jesus is God. I gave just given you 7 of many more verse that prove that jesus is God; even jesus himself says that he is God but I guess all those scriptures and even Jesus word is not credible to you.
I honestly mean no disrespect but I would like to know, what type of Christian are you?
B-A-C put it very well....Jesus isn't the Father, the Father isn't the Spirit, and the Spirit isn't Jesus (however all three are God).

Another way to explain the trinity is to use the word deity, or three persons inside one big God.
 
Member
Jesus did not tell people he was god, rather he fulfilled scripture claiming he woild come as everlasting father, mighty God, etc .
also is the beginning of the book of john not enough?

in the beginning was the word, and the word was withGod, and the Word was God....... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us"

sorry if these have been quoted already.
 
Active

RJ

B-A-C put it very well....Jesus isn't the Father, the Father isn't the Spirit, and the Spirit isn't Jesus (however all three are God).

Another way to explain the trinity is to use the word deity, or three persons inside one big God.
Right and none of us are as smart as we think we are! You are I can no more truly explain how the Trinity works, no more than we can explain Mary's conception. resurrection or how is it that the Holy Spirit is in some of us. Only God is omnipotent, so who of us can explain God's miracels? The closet we can come is reading his word. So with that in mind, how would you explain only these two of many scriptures that say Jesus and God are the same?:
1. Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.......(hmm: Mighty God and Everlasting Father), (Hmm: Isn't the Holy Spirit refered to as the Counselor as well?)
2. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ( Jesus is God)
 
Loyal
If the Son is the Father, then God is not a triune God. He is a singular God with 3 names.
Did the Father die on a cross? Did He die at all? Did Jesus die? Did Jesus come in the flesh? Did the Holy Spirit come in the flesh?
Why would the Father need a mediator if He was the mediator?
 
Active

RJ

If the Son is the Father, then God is not a triune God. He is a singular God with 3 names.
Did the Father die on a cross? Did He die at all? Did Jesus die? Did Jesus come in the flesh? Did the Holy Spirit come in the flesh?
Why would the Father need a mediator if He was the mediator?
Who impregnated Mary? Who was Mary's offspring?
Sorry but you make no since and have very few, if any, scripture to back your claims.
Anyway, you have a right to your opinion and I am respectfully done replying to you on a thread that I started. God Bless your beliefs!
 
Member

ATP

So with that in mind, how would you explain only these two of many scriptures that say Jesus and God are the same?:
1. Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.......(hmm: Mighty God and Everlasting Father), (Hmm: Isn't the Holy Spirit refered to as the Counselor as well?)
2. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ( Jesus is God)
I would probably use the words character and deity. Jesus and the Father are the same as in, they are of the same character and deity. God character and God deity.
 
Active

RJ

I would probably use the words character and deity. Jesus and the Father are the same as in, they are of the same character and deity. God character and God deity.
That is a bit confusing: On one hand you say that Jesus is not the Father and above you say they are the same diety. The thing is, "your words" aren't used; I think I will just stick with scripture rather than you explanation.
 
Member

ATP

That is a bit confusing: On one hand you say that Jesus is not the Father and above you say they are the same deity. The thing is, "your words" aren't used; I think I will just stick with scripture rather than you explanation.
Not confusing at all. Jesus and the Father are of the same deity, but their jobs are not the same. They have different duties. The Father is the creator, and the Son is the intercessor. The word deity simply means they are of the same nature. Jesus is the only begotten Son. When you beget something you are its offspring. For example, you are the offspring of your earthly father as in you have the same blood line and genes, but you and your dad have different duties and play different roles in life. - ATP
 
Active

RJ

Not confusing at all. Jesus and the Father are of the same deity, but their jobs are not the same. They have different duties. The Father is the creator, and the Son is the intercessor. The word deity simply means they are of the same nature. Jesus is the only begotten Son. When you beget something you are its offspring. For example, you are the offspring of your earthly father as in you have the same blood line and genes, but you and your dad have different duties and play different roles in life. - ATP
Listen, no disrespect you are simply wrong. Having different jobs has nothing to do with it! And, since you are so intent on separating their functions, it was Jesus who was the creator..... I would quote the scripture but I have already done that about Jesus being God and Father but apparently you choose to ignore scripture anyway.....and, LOL, your comparisson of me and my dad is a very poor analogy regarding God. I think you are stuck in the physical world and know nothing of the spirit world. God's blessings to you!
 
Loyal
Jesus is our savior. God is called savior in the OT (that doesn't mean it wasn't talking about Jesus, but even if it wasn't that was the OT).
No where is the Father called savior. No where does it say the Spirit or Father was flesh. No where does it say the Spirit or the Father died. It does say the Father raised Jesus from the dead.
No where is the Father called "the lamb that was slain". No where is the Father called a priest or high priest. No where is the Spirit called the Son. Jesus is the sacrifice for our sin(s).
Jesus is the covenant. No where is the Father or the Spirit called the covenant in the NT.

All that aside, why would anyone be against asking the Holy Spirit to dwell in them? ( Luke 11:13; )
 
Loyal
The Holy Spirit is our helper ( John 14:16; John 14:26; John 15:26; John 16:7; )
The Holy Spirit is our teacher ( Luke 12:12; John 14:26; )
The Holy Spirit is our guide ( John 16:13; Acts 1:16; )
The Holy Spirit can dwell in us ( Rom 8:11; 1 Cor 3:16; 2 Tim 1:14; )
It could be argued that Bible, and Jesus teach us and guide us also, however The Holy Spirit is here on earth right now. Jesus isn't.
Also I don't believe we can be taught from the Bible without the Holy Spirit enabling us.
The Holy Spirit is the giver of Spiritual gifts (1 Cor 12:11; )
The Holy Spirit is the enabler of Spiritual fruit in our lives. ( Gal 5:22-23; )
 
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