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IS THE FOURTH AND FINAL KINGDOM OF MEN VISIBLE TO US NOW?

Active
Just looking to create a topic that can give some the ability to express what they see. We are in a time of change that is occurring rapidly and as we
are in it we don't notice it as much as maybe we should. Too busy with living to see it.

The floor is open and all comments and questions are welcomed.
 
Loyal

This video gives a very clear foundation to understand and explore the book of Daniel.
 
Loyal
My response - which may be unsatisfying to many - is that by investigating times and dates and political machinations, we are askind questions that the apocalyptic books were never intending to answer.

Both Daniel and Revelation were written in times of persecution. They answer the big questions: has God forgotten us? Can anything stand against the great powers of men? Will there be justice? Is it worth persevering in the face of hardship, even death?

Sooner or later every great power becomes beastly. Daniel and Revelation prepare us to hold firm to God's promises.
 
Active
Hebrews 10:25 ".......but exhorting one another: and so much the more as ye see the day approaching."

It would appear that we should be able to see that day approaching if we are inclined to look for it.

I would like to start in Daniel 2:31 "Thou O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image , whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the
form thereof was terrible. 32- This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass. 33-His legs of iron, his feet part
of iron and part of clay."

2:37-38 "Thou, O king .......Thou art this head of gold. 39- And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall
bear rule over all the earth.
40- And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in
pieces and bruise.
41- And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the
iron
, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42- And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43- And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron
is not mixed with clay.

Dan 7:7 And the fourth beast.......was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.


This is very difficult to cram into a small post but to shorten as much as possible the fourth kingdom is the EUROPEAN UNION.
In 2009 the Union began to seat actual presidents for a term of 5 years. This was the beginning of the kings. In 2019 the third president (king) was seated.
This particular kingdom has no real power, militarily, as spoken of in Rev 17:12, but it's coming.
This Union has 28 member states and is mixed as the iron and the clay with world powers, and not so much world powers.
This beast has 7 economic heads which are the 7 most prominent financially sound EU countries, as of 2020 they are:
Switzerland, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands, Norway, and Austria.
The most prominent militarily are in order:
France, UK, Italy, Germany, Spain, Poland, Sweden, Greece, Czechia, and the Netherlands.

IMO one of the heads that receives the wound almost unto death will be the UK, and it has already begun. They, on the financially stable list of countries in the world
slipped from 11th to 16th in 2019. Which would have placed them at #7 on the EU list prior to 2019. Also they have begun Brexit, or leaving of the Union which will further hamper their financial situation in the future. Watch for them to rejoin in the not too distant future.

This kingdom is the largest superpower on earth in the realm of being the largest political union, single market, and aid donor in the world. It is not considered
a superpower militarily but has considerable military power when added together. In 2017 there was formed the MPCC which is a permanent military command
for the EU. It is starting to congeal militarily. You will need to do your own research its quite extensive if interested.
This kingdom sits to the North of Israel. With its capitol in Belgium.

This stuff is not very spiritual I realize but it is something we are told to watch for. But as the day of the Lord cometh as a thief in the night, it's a very hard thing
to see as it has been forming over many decades.

I will leave it here for now. Too late and too tired.
 
Loyal
(Isaiah chapter 3) I can see this is happening plainly

1See now, the Lord,
the Lord Almighty,
is about to take from Jerusalem and Judah
both supply and support:
all supplies of food and all supplies of water,
2the hero and the warrior,
the judge and the prophet,
the diviner and the elder,
3the captain of fifty and the man of rank,
the counselor, skilled craftsman and clever enchanter.
4“I will make mere youths their officials;
children will rule over them.”
5People will oppress each other—
man against man, neighbor against neighbor.
The young will rise up against the old,
the nobody against the honored.
6A man will seize one of his brothers
in his father’s house, and say,
“You have a cloak, you be our leader;
take charge of this heap of ruins!”
7But in that day he will cry out,
“I have no remedy.
I have no food or clothing in my house;
do not make me the leader of the people.”
8Jerusalem staggers,
Judah is falling;
their words and deeds are against the Lord,
defying his glorious presence.
9The look on their faces testifies against them;
they parade their sin like Sodom;
they do not hide it.
Woe to them!
They have brought disaster upon themselves.
10Tell the righteous it will be well with them,
for they will enjoy the fruit of their deeds.
11Woe to the wicked!
Disaster is upon them!
They will be paid back
for what their hands have done.
12Youths oppress my people,
women rule over them.
My people, your guides lead you astray;
they turn you from the path.
13The Lord takes his place in court;
he rises to judge the people.
14The Lord enters into judgment
against the elders and leaders of his people:
“It is you who have ruined my vineyard;
the plunder from the poor is in your houses.
15What do you mean by crushing my people
and grinding the faces of the poor?”
declares the Lord, the Lord Almighty.
16The Lord says,
“The women of Zion are haughty,
walking along with outstretched necks,
flirting with their eyes,
strutting along with swaying hips,
with ornaments jingling on their ankles.
17Therefore the Lord will bring sores on the heads of the women of Zion;
the Lord will make their scalps bald.”
18In that day the Lord will snatch away their finery: the bangles and headbands and crescent necklaces, 19the earrings and bracelets and veils, 20the headdresses and anklets and sashes, the perfume bottles and charms, 21the signet rings and nose rings, 22the fine robes and the capes and cloaks, the purses 23and mirrors, and the linen garments and tiaras and shawls.

24Instead of fragrance there will be a stench;
instead of a sash, a rope;
instead of well-dressed hair, baldness;
instead of fine clothing, sackcloth;
instead of beauty, branding.
25Your men will fall by the sword,
your warriors in battle.
26The gates of Zion will lament and mourn;
destitute, she will sit on the ground.
 
Loyal
ebrews 10:25 ".......but exhorting one another: and so much the more as ye see the day approaching."

It would appear that we should be able to see that day approaching if we are inclined to look for it.
Those words were addressed to Christians almost 2, 000 years ago. What do you think they should have seen?
 
Loyal
(Isaiah chapter 3) I can see this is happening plainly

1See now, the Lord,
the Lord Almighty,
is about to take from Jerusalem and Judah
both supply and support:
all supplies of food and all supplies of water,
2the hero and the warrior,
the judge and the prophet,
the diviner and the elder,
3the captain of fifty and the man of rank,
the counselor, skilled craftsman and clever enchanter.
4“I will make mere youths their officials;
children will rule over them.”
5People will oppress each other—
man against man, neighbor against neighbor.
The young will rise up against the old,
the nobody against the honored.
6A man will seize one of his brothers
in his father’s house, and say,
“You have a cloak, you be our leader;
take charge of this heap of ruins!”
7But in that day he will cry out,
“I have no remedy.
I have no food or clothing in my house;
do not make me the leader of the people.”
8Jerusalem staggers,
Judah is falling;
their words and deeds are against the Lord,
defying his glorious presence.
9The look on their faces testifies against them;
they parade their sin like Sodom;
they do not hide it.
Woe to them!
They have brought disaster upon themselves.
10Tell the righteous it will be well with them,
for they will enjoy the fruit of their deeds.
11Woe to the wicked!
Disaster is upon them!
They will be paid back
for what their hands have done.
12Youths oppress my people,
women rule over them.
My people, your guides lead you astray;
they turn you from the path.
13The Lord takes his place in court;
he rises to judge the people.
14The Lord enters into judgment
against the elders and leaders of his people:
“It is you who have ruined my vineyard;
the plunder from the poor is in your houses.
15What do you mean by crushing my people
and grinding the faces of the poor?”
declares the Lord, the Lord Almighty.
16The Lord says,
“The women of Zion are haughty,
walking along with outstretched necks,
flirting with their eyes,
strutting along with swaying hips,
with ornaments jingling on their ankles.
17Therefore the Lord will bring sores on the heads of the women of Zion;
the Lord will make their scalps bald.”
18In that day the Lord will snatch away their finery: the bangles and headbands and crescent necklaces, 19the earrings and bracelets and veils, 20the headdresses and anklets and sashes, the perfume bottles and charms, 21the signet rings and nose rings, 22the fine robes and the capes and cloaks, the purses 23and mirrors, and the linen garments and tiaras and shawls.

24Instead of fragrance there will be a stench;
instead of a sash, a rope;
instead of well-dressed hair, baldness;
instead of fine clothing, sackcloth;
instead of beauty, branding.
25Your men will fall by the sword,
your warriors in battle.
26The gates of Zion will lament and mourn;
destitute, she will sit on the ground.
That's an accurate description of the events surrounding the Babylonian exile.
 
Active
Those words were addressed to Christians almost 2, 000 years ago. What do you think they should have seen?
I would defer that Paul knew better and was writing to us. Agreed the letters were addressed to them but the Bible addresses us all in our own time.
As the Lord said not every man can receive everything as everything is not for every one. Paraphrased.
 
Active
My initial opening was just informative and to show that there were things happening within the EU that fit only too well into the description of the fourth kingdom.
And to just hide and watch as it will be several years before this thing becomes clearer. You will never hear about anything they do as it seems to be rolling
along in secret.
The first thing that was done, in my mind that was interesting was a deferral of all money of the individual countries to a single currency called the EURO dollar,
now we see Sweden going cashless in 2023. PS Sweden was the first to introduce a bill currency to the world and now they are going to be the first to go without.

This is just a keep your eyes open issue. And in doing so you just might see where we are as to the day approaching. Not that anybody knows the hour nor the day,
and at the moment I still couldn't calculate the decade. But I have been watching this for over 15 years and am 99% certain this is the fourth kingdom.
I had foretold the coming of a President of the EU with an American style term limit back in 2002. It happened in 2009 and now they are on number 3.
 
Loyal
That's an accurate description of the events surrounding the Babylonian exile.
Would you not say, that even "biblical prophecy" of the OT, are there for our learning that is sometimes place there to unveil the events of the NT era in which we live. All roads of the things that are written in "Holy Scriptures" leads up to "Christ" and always points to "Revealing HIM". And everything that is written surrounds "Jesus Christ" both old and new! And the "Truth"! In actuality even the "Babylonian Capitity" are enlighten "biblical imagery" into"biblical motifs" of that which is to come. The unveiling of "Jesus Christ" the Son of the living God". Is not "The Bible" so special and more than just a rbook of history and ways of living a good life and principles here on earth?

Shalom
 
Loyal
I would defer that Paul knew better and was writing to us. Agreed the letters were addressed to them but the Bible addresses us all in our own time.
As the Lord said not every man can receive everything as everything is not for every one. Paraphrased.
You dodged the question. What do you think the writer of Hebrews expected his readers to be on the lookout for back in the first century?
 
Active
You dodged the question. What do you think the writer of Hebrews expected his readers to be on the lookout for back in the first century?
It certainly was not the fourth and final kingdom of men. They lived under the rule of the third their whole lives.
 
Active
You could say the same about what Daniel was given or even John. Some things are written for us and were never intended for them to understand
as it was for this era. Daniels visions of this time are perfect examples.
 
Loyal
Scripture often speaks in ways that make many wonder what its saying. Quite often religious scholars decide what those things are supposed to mean, and more often than not, they are right, but not always. All you have to do is see how wrong the jews were in interpretation of the coming of Christ and many other things. How many times in scripture does Jesus speak telling those religious leaders how they are wrong.

I am not the first to record this, I heard about it before only because someone told me its like such and such's interpretation. But the Lord gave to me the meanings of several verses in Dan 7. What the Lord gave me does not agree with what most scholars think it means. Its not important that anyone believe me, I am only required to speak of this when ppl show any interest, and then everyone is welcome to discount it. The truth goes out and does not return void. I trust God that the words/visions/dreams He gives me will do what was expected and to simply speak or write them when prompted so.

The first 3 verses speak of the great sea, this is the sea of nations on the earth today, many nations. It has been night now for some time, and getting closer to midnight, soon to strike the hour. The winds are a storm of nations that fight each other, all over the sea. That storm was the combination of WW1 and WW2. The four beasts are 4 nations that arise out of that storm of nations fighting and become the prominent nations at the end of days.

Dan 7
1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream and told the sum of the matters. 2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of heaven brake forth upon the great sea. 3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

The 4th verse speaks of a combination of 2 nations that are so tightly allied, they are usually of like minds when it comes to war (when we are at war, we are like beasts). They are the United Kingdom and the US. The lion is of course the UK who uses that symbol to identify itself even today. The US of course uses the eagle to represent itself. The wings were plucked because we are 2 nations now that were once one. We are lifted up, a sign of dominance upon others and we stand upon two feet as a man with a heart, because we as nations regret many of the things we did in the war, even though we felt we had to.

4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made to stand upon two feet as a man; and a man’s heart was given to it.

The fifth verse of course speaks of Russia, whose even today is symbolically the bear. It devours the smaller nations around it. The Lord didnt tell me what being raised up on one side or the 3 ribs were, I could speculate, but I avoid doing this. It never leaves its beastly desires behind.

5 And, behold, another beast, a second, like to a bear; and it was raised up on one side, and three ribs were in its mouth between its teeth: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

The sixth verse speaks of China who had 2 symbols throughout its history, one of a flying dragon, and one of a tiger. Its easy to see that the two combined would be much like this description here. The main difference is its called a leopard instead of a tiger, yet at that time Daniel would probably not have seen a tiger but leopard was more well known in babylon, so hence his description follows. As to the four wings and four heads, the Lord didnt share with me the meaning, and again I could speculate, but I leave that to people who so love to.

6 After this I beheld, and, lo, another, like a leopard, which had upon its back four wings of a bird; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

Then starting on verse 7 and going on to the end of the chapter is all about the fourth beast. Now concerning this vision/dream of Daniel, people often think its the same dream Daniel had before about the statue. Its not, its a different dream about the end of the age. The fourth beast is many combined nations of Islam (10 of them apparently, which ones I am unsure of). It is spoken of without animal description even though it is the most fearsome beast. Thats because Islam refuses to use any animal symbol to depict itself. Now read the rest of Chap 7 if you wish and determine if you wish to dispute it. The Lord didnt give me anymore about the 4th beast, just that its Islam.

7 After this I saw in the night-visions, and, behold, a fourth beast, terrible and powerful, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth; it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with its feet: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

The Lord told me this at least 20 years ago, perhaps more. I wrote it down and presented it to others, who quickly saw it as nothing more than someone trying to be important in the eyes of others. Thats fine if ppl wish to do so. Its really not that important that I be recognized or that you believe it, its just that God likes to share things with us, just like He did all the way back with Joseph and Daniel and others. There were a few who found it interesting, but its not like it helps anyone, so no big deal either way.
 
Loyal
Ok. So we've got differing understandings of the identity of the beasts.

The conventional interpretation for Daniel 7 (and Daniel 2) is

Bablylonian
Medes and Persians
Greek
Roman.

And today we see the same beastly spirit and behaviour at work in nations rising to power.

I'm open to persuasion on the identity of the nations. But in a sense it does not trouble me too much. The important thing to grasp is how the Ancient of Days establishes an everlasting kingdom
 
Loyal
Ok. So we've got differing understandings of the identity of the beasts.

The conventional interpretation for Daniel 7 (and Daniel 2) is

Bablylonian
Medes and Persians
Greek
Roman.

And today we see the same beastly spirit and behaviour at work in nations rising to power.

I'm open to persuasion on the identity of the nations. But in a sense it does not trouble me too much. The important thing to grasp is how the Ancient of Days establishes an everlasting kingdom
Yes, I mentioned it doesnt adhere to the conventional interpretation, and that it was a seperate dream for a reason. No, I am not intrested in persuading anyone, and I think I mentioned that also. I am open to questions about it, thats it.
 
Loyal
Yes, I mentioned it doesnt adhere to the conventional interpretation, and that it was a seperate dream for a reason. No, I am not intrested in persuading anyone, and I think I mentioned that also. I am open to questions about it, thats it.
Thanks. I put the conventional interpretation in just because no-one else had mentioned it, not necessarily in opposition to what you've given. I'm a slow thinker when it comes to new ideas, so I'll chew over what you've written for a few days.
 
Loyal
Thanks. I put the conventional interpretation in just because no-one else had mentioned it, not necessarily in opposition to what you've given. I'm a slow thinker when it comes to new ideas, so I'll chew over what you've written for a few days.
Okay, you are welcome to ask questions later.
 
Active
The fourth beast is many combined nations of Islam
Would this not require a homage to Mohammad as their prophet, as opposed to the anti Christ himself being worshiped as God? This would seem
contrary as I do not think Mohammad ever claimed to be God, but just a prophet of God. So who would the Muslims worship as God?

Just a passing thought.
 

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