Infilling vs Baptism in the Holy Spirit

[B-A-C]

The 120 people in the upper room in Acts 2. The 11 apostles (minus Judas) and Mary were there.
Were they saved before this day? The apostles had already been following Jesus for 3 years.
Were they ever baptized in the Holy Spirit before this day?

OK, so that was the first time for anyone (except Jesus and John the Baptist (Luke 1:15)) to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.

John 7:39; But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

In Acts 10, we have a Gentile named Cornelius, who was a devout God fearing man who prayed continually. (Acts 10:1-2; )
But Cornelius and his family aren't baptized with the Holy Spirit until Acts 10:44-46;

In Acts 19, Paul runs across some disciples at Ephesus (Acts 19:1; )
They were believers that had already been baptized in water (John's Baptism) but they didn't even know there was
a Holy Spirit. They don't receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit until Acts 19:6;

No one in the Bible received the baptism of the Holy Spirit at the instant they were saved.

Saul (who became Paul) meets Jesus on the road to Damascus, in Acts 9:3-7;
But Paul doesn't receive the Holy Spirit until at least 3 days later ( Acts 9:17; )

In Acts 8 Philip and Peter go to Samaria. Some people there had already "received" the word fo God.
They had already been baptized in the name of Jesus ( Acts 8:16; )
But they don't receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit until Acts 8:17;

Acts 5:32; "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

In all 5 instances above, people were saved for a while before they were baptized in the Holy Spirit.
There is no place in the Bible it says people get baptized in the Holy Spirit just because they believe in Jesus.

In fact even the demons believe, but that doesn't mean they have the Holy Spirit. ( James 2:19; )

Jesus tells a parable about the persistence of asking for things over and over until you get an answer. He ends that parable with this sentence.

Luke 11:13; "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

 

[B-A-C]

Mark 16:17; "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:18; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Jesus said those who follow Him will do these things, have you ever done any of them? If not, you probably haven't been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

John 14:12; "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

Jesus said we could do greater works than He did, are you doing this? If not you likely haven't been baptized with the Holy Spirit.

The well known passage in Galatians 5 talks about the fruit of the Spirit.

Gal 5:19; Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20; idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21; envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22; But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23; gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

I have to say, I see a lot more evidence of the flesh in some people here on TJ, than I do evidence of the Spirit, and yet... according to them, they are
"born again" and baptized in the Holy Spirit.

 

[B-A-C]

Php 2:13; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

I often here people quote this and tell me God is at work in them, I ask them "in what way", and usually they answer "I don't know".
Here is how the Holy Spirit works in us.

1 Cor 12:4; Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1 Cor 12:5; And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.
1 Cor 12:6; There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
1 Cor 12:7; But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
1 Cor 12:8; For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
1 Cor 12:9; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1 Cor 12:10; and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
1 Cor 12:11; But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

The Holy works these things. God says everyone who has been baptized in the Holy Spirit has at least one of these gifts.
Maybe it's a word of wisdom, maybe it's a word of knowledge, maybe it's supernatural faith, maybe it's a gift of divine healing,
Maybe it's the ability to do miracles, maybe it's the ability to prophesy, maybe it's discernment of spirits, maybe it's speaking in tongues, or maybe...
it's the ability to interpret these tongues.

Have you ever done any of these things? If not, why would you think you are baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Do you know which of these things is your gift? Have you ever exercised it? If not, how do you know you have it?
Now doing these things doesn't save you, and even if you've never done them... that doesn't mean you aren't saved.
Read the OP again... maybe people were believers for a long time before they were baptized in the Holy Spirit.

 

[B-A-C]

I've heard many Christians say things like... well we don't practice any of these things in my church.

Why not? Jesus said these signs will follow those who believe in Him. He said His church would do greater things than He did.
How is the Holy Spirit working in your church? How is He working in you?
Are you prophesying? Are you healing anyone? Have you done any miracles? Has anyone in your church done any of these things?
If not.. maybe it's time to find another church.

Jesus said His followers would receive "power".

Luke 24:49; "And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."
Acts 1:8; but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."

If this power is evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit, where is your power?

 

[B-A-C]

There is a lot of "talk" here on "talk"Jesus. I suppose that's a good thing. I've certainly done my share.
But the kingdom of God isn't just talk.

1 Cor 2:4; and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,

1 Cor 4:20; For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power.

2 Cor 12:9; And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

Where is your power? If the kingdom of God doesn't come with words, but with power... is there power in your church? Why not?
Is there power in you? If not, are you looking for it?

Luke 11:13; "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

 

[B-A-C]

Matt 13:58; And He did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.

Are there any miracles happening in your church? If not, why not? Notice the verse above doesn't say Jesus "couldn't" do the miracles.
It just says He didn't do them... "because of their unbelief".

Do you believe God is able to do these things through you? If you do, then why aren't you doing them?

Heb 11:6; And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

 

[regibassman57]

@B-A-C,
I believe John was filled with the Holy Ghost, but. are you saying he was born again?

 

[B-A-C]

I believe John was filled with the Holy Ghost, but. are you saying he was born again?

Is there a difference?
I know some people will say no. Pointing to the verses above, but then that's why I maintain there is a difference between the infilling and the baptism.
Otherwise no one has the Holy Spirit in them when they initially get saved.

 

[regibassman57]

@B-A-C,

Is there a difference?
I know some people will say no. Pointing to the verses above, but then that's why I maintain there is a difference between the infilling and the baptism.
Otherwise no one has the Holy Spirit in them when they initially get saved.

I would like to clarify what I said in my last post about John being filled with the Holy Ghost. After I went back and studied the verse, I found that the word "filled" has several meanings. John was not "filled" with the Holy Ghost as we understand the word "filled," but John was "influenced" by the Holy Ghost. We have to weigh what the scriptures say also in definition; which I did not do for this particular scripture. The only definition that makes sense with the other scriptures regarding the filling of the Spirit is "influence." John did not have the "Spirit of Christ."

G4130 (Filled)
πλήθω [PLH/QW] {plḗthō} \play'-tho\
a prolonged form of a primary πλέω [PLE/W] {pléō} \pleh'-o\
(which appears only as an alternate in certain tenses and in the reduplicated form pimplemi); to "fill" (literally or figuratively (imbue, influence, supply)); specially, to fulfil (time):--accomplish, full (…come), furnish.

In the time of John the Baptizer the Spirit had not yet been given for a man to become born again, because Jesus had not yet been Glorified. Scripture also confirms if any man does not have the Spirit of God they are not The Lord's; meaning they are not born again. A person can "only" be "in" the flesh or "in" the Spirit. A person cannot be "IN" both. John was still in the flesh because He was not born again from his old nature and had not been given the heart of Christ. John had the heart of Adam infected with the sin nature.

John 7:38
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
John 7:39
But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Jesus instructed the disciples what they needed to do in order to receive the Holy Ghost.

Acts 1:4
And, being assembled together with them, Jesus commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Acts 1:5
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

There is "no" difference. Once a person is filled with the Holy Ghost, they have the fulness of the Spirit without measure. There is only "one" baptizm to be born again and receive the fulness of the Spirit.

Colossians 2:10
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

 

[B-A-C]

There is "no" difference. Once a person is filled with the Holy Ghost, they have the fulness of the Spirit without measure. There is only "one" baptizm to be born again and receive the fulness of the Spirit.

And yet, it didn't happen that way in any of the 5 examples in the OP.

 

[regibassman57]

@B-A-C,

And yet, it didn't happen that way in any of the 5 examples in the OP.

Minus man's personal interpretations the only way the filling of the Spirit can be understood is through those scriptures. Put those scriptures first and then reason from there. If you don't it's not going to happen that way in a man's interpretation. Try and explain your position using the scriptures that I've posted and show me how they can be used differently.

 

[B-A-C]

The quick answer is .. "they just got it sometime after salvation". But then, that would mean there was a period of time when Christians didn't have the Holy Spirit.
The more accepted answer. They received the infilling at the time of salvation, and the baptism sometime afterward.

The second explanation accepts all of the verses you, and all of the examples I gave. It doesn't have a problem with any of them at all.
If we go with your version that there is no difference, then you have to explain away all of the examples in the OP.

 

[regibassman57]

@B-A-C,

The quick answer is .. "they just got it sometime after salvation". But then, that would mean there was a period of time when Christians didn't have the Holy Spirit.
The more accepted answer. They received the infilling at the time of salvation, and the baptism sometime afterward.

The second explanation accepts all of the verses you, and all of the examples I gave. It doesn't have a problem with any of them at all.
If we go with your version that there is no difference, then you have to explain away all of the examples in the OP.

The scriptures I posted before said the disciples had not received the Holy Ghost (born again experience) because Jesus had not been glorified (7:38, 39). But there is no doubt the disciples were believers without the infilling of the Holy Ghost or gifts. Jesus told His disciple to tarry in Jerusalem until they receive power from on high; referring to the Holy Ghost and the gift of the Spirit (Luk. 24:49; Acts 1:8).

Acts 1:8
But you shall receive "power," after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and you shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

When a person believes in Jesus as Lord, they receive the "promise" of the Holy Ghost and power through the "gifts of the Spirit" to be witnesses unto the uttermost parts of the world or wherever God will lead them. All the gifts are in the "Holy Ghost" at the time of the believers infilling. The first evidence that shows believers receiving the Holy Ghost with the gifts is on the day of Pentecost.

Acts 2:1
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

One of the gifts of the Holy Ghost (the Spirit of God) is the gift of speaking in tongues.

1 Corinthians 12:8
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1 Corinthians 12:9
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1 Corinthians 12:10
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1 Corinthians 12:11
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Who baptizes the person into the body of Christ once they believe?
At the time of the baptism of the Holy Ghost who divides to them gifts according to His will according to these scriptures?

1 Corinthians 12:18
But now hath "God"set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

God sets the believers (members) in the body and divides gifts according to His will.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

This all happens at the time of conversion. If a person does not have God's Spirit they are not saved (Rom. 8:9). Once the believer accepts Jesus as Lord, they must believe they've been filled by faith with the fulness of God's Spirit. No evidence of gifts may be seen at the time of the believers conversion. And every believer does not have all the gifts in operation, but if God choses to use a believer, He can activate any gift in a believer He choses to use through that believer. The Spirit of God that does the baptizing also divides the gifts. Again all the gifts are in the Spirit of God indwelling the believer from the time of the believers born again infilling.

 

[Samson2020]

If I may just add a couple words. A very good subject here and I will have to back track and read the whole thing, but the one thing I saw was that someone said we got the fullness of the Holy Ghost at the time of the infilling. That is not true as we receive a down payment of the Holy Ghost at the time of baptism.
The only person that ever got the Holy Ghost without measure was Jesus. And it says that the heavens were opened unto him. His vision was that of one who sees the invisible as well as the visible at that time, he could handle that. If we had the fullness so would we, but that would scare us i'd say into a nut house until we figured out what was happening. We who were born carnal with a carnal mind and separated from the things of the spirit cannot just in the blink of eye have that opened up to us, as we have no understanding much less how would we grow our faith if we could see it all and I dare say this would include the Father and the Son themselves. We walk by FAITH, and obtain our inheritance by that same Faith.

I can only speak for myself on the subject but I had an idea that someday I would meet God so I believed in him as well as Jesus, but was in no way saved even though I had been dipped in the water baptism 3-4 times from 12-18 years of age. I personally believe that until higher Faith is given by God we don't have enough to believe in what the world would say is impossible (The raising of the dead), but when God gives the extra we then have obtained mercy to believe and it is at this point that the infilling happens. My case was associated with an unclean spirit in someone else that caused me great excitement and upon considering the fact that it did exist the rest of what I had read must be true too. Within maybe 30 minutes alone in my truck going home from work it happened. Just like a finger touching my forehead then the flow of warm thin honey from head to foot, while crying and laughing at the same time, with words coming out of my mouth that I did not understand and an overwhelming joy that can only be experienced and not truly explained.

The answer to your questions about miracles is again by personal experience. Not a single miracle happened that was not instigated by the Lord. Be it healing -got to be the messenger and pray for the person getting healed but he instigated it by telling me who to pray for, I was at work he says "go pray for him" as my eyes caught a customer. Had a brief what does he need prayer for moment and the Lord answered me with "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy you've read this" I said yes. Long story short I went to pray for the guy he got healed of a bad heart and inoperable cancer. I did not know he had either. The one time I got to cast out an unclean spirit was rather uneventful really, I was allowed to hear it say the words "Don't touch me" from within an elderly woman, of course I did touch her forehead and simply said "Jesus" and within maybe 5 minutes the lady was at my counter saying that she didn't know what that was that came upon her but it left just as fast. She came back in about a week and said I know what happened my husband was a pentecostal preacher no need to explain. Not sure I could have as I was still a baby in the Lord.

I believe he creates these circumstances for us to step up to to show us who we are in him. Like a conformation of selection.

I also believe that going around trying to do what is outside his will is pretty much a waste of time. All decisions are the Lords and if we follow Jesus' example we wait until the Lord assigns us the thing which is ours to do. Just my personal view.

And theres always the quote "Many are called, but few are chosen." Called unto the baptism but not chosen vs called unto the baptism and chosen??