images of Christ and the cross

[Rachel15]

Exodus 20

4 Thow shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.

I've been reading on a Christian site that it is wrong to have images of Christ - even pictures of Christ. Does this mean that it is wrong to have images of Jesus on Christmas cards or in books?

Also, is it also wrong to have crosses and crucifixes in church?

I've never been keen on wearing a crucifix because somehow it didn't seem right to wear a model of Jesus, but I also read that early Christians wouldn't have worn a cross either.

 

[iniesta]

you're right.I've been trying to create an wareness to that part of the scriptures but er...no one seems to be willing.
Not only in churches but close to 85% of christians live contrary to this verse...
Thank you for this...

 

[Proverb7437]

Your right. But people tend to skip this scripture. I myself to celebrate christmas because its not of God. Nor was it institutionalized by him. Its a pagan holiday. No believer should be active on this holiday

 

[Faithful Son]

you're right.I've been trying to create an wareness to that part of the scriptures but er...no one seems to be willing.
Not only in churches but close to 85% of christians live contrary to this verse...
Thank you for this...

Your right. But people tend to skip this scripture. I myself to celebrate christmas because its not of God. Nor was it institutionalized by him. Its a pagan holiday. No believer should be active on this holiday

You are both wrong and are busy misleading a fellow sister in Christ.

The whole issue at hand is about a New and Old covenant. As far as Christmas is concerned, we had a thread about it recently, take a look at it in this section of the forum.

As far as having images or apparel resembling Christ, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, unless you worship the object and not the Holy God.

Take a look at this link: No More Tithing - Old Cov'nt and Before

It will give you an insight, firstly on the tithing issue, but it also highlights all the major areas where we are supposed to learn and realize that we aren't under the law anymore.

God bless

 

[Proverb7437]

"You are both wrong and are busy misleading a fellow sister in Christ.

The whole issue at hand is about a New and Old covenant."

Exactly how am I misleading this sister? Its obvious to me she knows what she's talking about because she quoted the scripture about it. So, your telling me the pictures we have now of christ is actually how he looks like? SO we should bypass the scripture that speaks about graven images to embarce something that was of the world? and as far as christmas, it is a pagan holiday. I've done research on this holiday, among other holidays, to see if it is of christ. It is not of christ, Its of the world. Something we should be seperate from if we call ourselves christians. If you want to embrace the holiday, feel free to do so. Its your choice. As for myself, i'll set myself apart from this pagan ritual.

 

[Faithful Son]

It's clear to me you did not read my post. I gave you the exact reason why you are misleading sister Rachel.

The Old Covenant and laws that went with it is past and over with, we are in the new covenant where we are free men in Christ, without the need to look back and wonder whether we are breaking the Sabbath or whether we eat pork!

If you can not stand to be corrected, do not respond.

 

[Chad]

you're right.I've been trying to create an wareness to that part of the scriptures but er...no one seems to be willing.
Not only in churches but close to 85% of christians live contrary to this verse...
Thank you for this...

Just yesterday you uploaded a photo of Jesus, the photo reflects the one Catholics use and portray of Him. You contradict your own belief brother.

People take Exodus 20 out of context. Are you going to tell me I've broken the law (commandment) if I have a statue of a Dolphin in front of my house for decoration purpose?

 

[aaroncam85]

Paul says we should live in consideration with one another in Corinthians, he says for the one who believes it is wrong he should not do it but for him who feels it is okay let him be, neither is sinning but if you know another brother will stumble by your actions act with him in mind. See Corinthians 8 for precise quote and context.

 

[Faithful Son]

Paul says we should live in consideration with one another in Corinthians, he says for the one who believes it is wrong he should not do it but for him who feels it is okay let him be, neither is sinning but if you know another brother will stumble by your actions act with him in mind. See Corinthians 8 for precise quote and context.

You are correct brother. If we call ourselves Christian we can't say to fellow Christians that celebrating Christmas is a pagan tradition or pagan following. If we believe in Christ Jesus and live for Him each day, no man can tell us what to do, only God can.

As far as I can see, the Christians who celebrate Christmas are not causing other believers to stumble, but rather it uplifts their spirits and makes them joyful at the end of the year to know that their Saviour is alive!

God bless

 

[aaroncam85]

what i am saying is that if a brother in my fellowship does not celebrate christmas even though i do i will not parade it in his face or invite him to celebrate with me , on the other hand i will explain why i feel it is okay to celebrate christmas.

 

[rizen1]

Well, for me I dont wear crosses, I try my best when selecting media of any kind to not have pics. I do enjoy and appreciate medieval art, which has different depiction of Jesus. These painting was an expression of what they believed . I dont deny the Catholic influence in these paintings because to me they are nothing but art and there's no emotional tide just appreciate to the artist and their skill.

" A picture is worth a thousand words"

I love art, and as time goes by we'll find and learn to appreciate old and modern religious art.

View attachment 138 I love this one for the fact that it has Alpha and Omega on the picture. The is the oldest one I could find is probably dates around the year AD375. This was found in the catacombs, I was trying to find images of Jesus from the early church...no success, or record found.

This is 2 old religious art I like, its not the Western traditonal Jesus, but gives a eastern look. .
View attachment 139 View attachment 140

aaroncam85
Paul says we should live in consideration with one another in Corinthians, he says for the one who believes it is wrong he should not do it but for him who feels it is okay let him be, neither is sinning but if you know another brother will stumble by your actions act with him in mind. See Corinthians 8 for precise quote and context

I agree...amen.

 

[iniesta]

Why not celebrate christmas.A day which marked the beginning of the salvation of mankind.It is right and good but all am saying is that the verse is quite is quite clear and i think it speaks for itself.
About the photo...good question.I am part of the whole lot or let me say was, but i've come to realise that it should actually according to that verse,not be adhered to.
Now am sorry if you all are upset but lets just say we're wrong, okay and that we should consider a change.
Thank you all and i do respect your views...

 

[Faithful Son]

Why not celebrate christmas.A day which marked the beginning of the salvation of mankind.It is right and good but all am saying is that the verse is quite is quite clear and i think it speaks for itself.
About the photo...good question.I am part of the whole lot or let me say was, but i've come to realise that it should actually according to that verse,not be adhered to.
Now am sorry if you all are upset but lets just say we're wrong, okay and that we should consider a change.
Thank you all and i do respect your views...

It's not so much the fact who is right and wrong iniesta, but when you are corrected with the Word of God, which shows you plainly how things work, you have to accept it, learn and grow and mature.

Let me show you something and you can do more research on this if you'd like. "The Law" as it's called, the 10 commandments and all the extra laws which were used to keep Israel intact is past tense.

The reason it is past tense is because Jesus Christ came to earth to "fulfill" the law, as well as to die for our sins.

Matthew 5:17-20 NKJV
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 13:8-14 NKJV

Love Your Neighbor

8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Put on Christ

11 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. 13 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.

 

[Nigh]

"Do not cook a young goat in it's mothers milk" - Duet 14:21

"Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed."

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material." - Lev 19:19

Do you also obey all of the above laws? If not, why not? Are you guilty of picking and choosing which laws apply to you?

You must be a farmer, since God commands that you do not plant your field with 2 different seeds...right?

See the "law" for what it is...

The role of the law in Israel's history was to establish the ways they would live in community with one another, and
to provide for their relationship and worship of Yahweh, their God. At the same time the law set boundaries with
regard to their relationship with the cultures around them. It was considered a gift from God. Not a curse. It was Gods way
of setting Israel apart from it's pagan neighbors. This is why the righteous in the Old Testament regularly express delight in the
Law. ( e.g. Pss 19 and 119)

The story of Israel in the Old Testament is a sad story of disobedience and constant flirtation with and attraction to the "gods" of
their neighbors. Hence, instead of being Yahweh's people - a people exlemplifying his character of justice, and mercy, caring
for the needy in the land, etc. - they were full of greed, capriciousness, and sexual immorality, like the Baals of the Canaanites.
(exactly what the Law was intended to prevent)

The law concerning graven images was most certainly intended to keep the Israelites from worshiping the false gods of the
neighboring Canaanites and to shed the culture of the Egyptians which they just left behind. It was most certainly NOT intended
to put stipulations on how they were to express adoration and worship to the "non-false" God, the true God, Yahweh. The context
of the Law...who it was written to, when it was given, and the historical, geographical, and social environment the recipients were
in... is something we MUST not overlook. If we do, we loose the INTENT of the scripture. Understand the Law of the Old Testament
(old covenant / old contract) is God's word FOR us, not God's command TO us. His commands TO us are expressed in the
New Testament (new covenant/ new contract)

. And as it true of contracts, you are not bound by the old one, after you agree to the new one.
However aspects of the old contract may be contained in the new one. Think labor contracts where the pay scale and medical benefits
are changed, but the seniority, bid process, vacation, sick time, and retirement plan is unchanged. Sure the new contains some aspects
of the old, but you don't still refer to the old for reference to your contract that is currently binding.

We should not assume that the stipulations in the old covenant are binding on us...we should assume just the opposite. Unless the
stipulations are renewed, we should assume we are not bound by them. Only that which is explicitly renewed from the Old Testament law
can be considered part of the New Testament "law of Christ". Those law included would be the Ten commandments since they are sited
in various ways in the New Testament as still binding on Christians. (Matt 5:21-37; John 7:23), and the two great commandments from
Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. No other specific Old Testament laws can be proved to be strictly binding on Christians, valuable
as it is for Christians to know all of the laws. The law is still God's word for us.

NOTE: The following was taken from the Bible Dictionary link on the homepage of this site.

Graven image

Deut. 27:15; Ps. 97:7 (Heb. pesel), refers to the household gods of idolaters. "Every nation and city had its own gods...Yet every family had its separate household or tutelary god."

So it is refering to putting the household gods before Yahweh. God is saying not to worship false gods, He was not saying "don't worship ME with paintings, statues, or pendants" He didn't say ONLY worship me with songs and prayers...He said worship me in ALL you do.




As for celebrating Christmas...well, I celebrate the birth of my Redeemer everyday! So does that mean on Halloween I shouldn't? Of course not.
We, as Christians are not to worship pagan gods or celebrate WITH pagans for sure. To put aside a day for all Christians to show the world who
they worship is only a bad idea in that we don't do that everyday. Just like the Iraelites at the bottom of Mt Sinai, God does not want our worship
to turn to false gods. The date, time, or place is irrelevant. It is however always wise to worship our Lord. So on December 25th, I will worship
the Lord as I do everyday. I will celebrate His birth as the King of the Jews, and I'll take comfort that my Christian brothers and sisters all over the
world are doing the same. As long as I know they are not worshiping or celebrating a false god, I see no reason to condemn the practice.
I am more upset that my non-Christian neighbors and co-workers who reject the teaching and commands of our Lord Jesus everyday suddenly
become "Christians" on Dec. 25th. It would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.

 

[iniesta]

thank you all...

 

[Rachel15]

Thanks for all your replies and discussion. I guess this has shown me that I need to be careful where I browse online. There are so many sites with so many views that it can be confusing.

I appreciate you posting x