If there is no condemnation why ask forgiveness?

[JohnP]

Then we’re justified, or declared innocent of sin. This is done when the Spirit takes Christ’s perfect sacrifice and credits it to our account. This means that when God looks upon us He sees Christ’s perfection and not our imperfection.

So, dumb question here - in regard to the bold part - After we are saved, God sees Christ's perfection and not our imperfection. Does this mean that in God's eyes, we are no longer sinners? When we commit a sin is God not aware of it since he only sees Christ's perfection? If so, then once we are saved, is it no longer necessary to ask for forgiveness after sinning?

 

[RJ]

So, dumb question here - in regard to the bold part - After we are saved, God sees Christ's perfection and not our imperfection. Does this mean that in God's eyes, we are no longer sinners? When we commit a sin is God not aware of it since he only sees Christ's perfection? If so, then once we are saved, is it no longer necessary to ask for forgiveness after sinning?

No, it means there is no condemnation when we do...Romans 8:1

 

[JohnP]

No, it means there is no condemnation when we do...Romans 8:1

Right. There is no condemnation. So someone could take that to the next step and ask, "If there is no condemnation, then what are we asking for forgiveness for?" I won't take it any farther in this thread though, as I don't want to hijack it further.

 

[Chad]

Right. There is no condemnation. So someone could take that to the next step and ask, "If there is no condemnation, then what are we asking for forgiveness for?" I won't take it any farther in this thread though, as I don't want to hijack it further.

Yes, let's stick with topic. But, just for sake of answering this (I'll break my own rule), I think asking for forgiveness, is merely confession of our wrongdoing. I don't think it's stating we're not already forgiven, but merely a humble way of confessing our sins. Really isn't a big deal in the end, we should always confess our sins to Him and receive His forgiveness available at the Cross.

 

[RJ]

"If there is no condemnation, then what are we asking for forgiveness for?

The asking of forgiveness or acknowledging that one is sinful and in need of forgiveness is the defining act of receiving Jesus Christ as one's personal savior. After that, it is not so much a matter of continued "asking for forgiveness", but rather the possession of a repentant heart that leads you to a continued desire to change and improve.

 

[king1]

So, dumb question here - in regard to the bold part - After we are saved, God sees Christ's perfection and not our imperfection. Does this mean that in God's eyes, we are no longer sinners? When we commit a sin is God not aware of it since he only sees Christ's perfection? If so, then once we are saved, is it no longer necessary to ask for forgiveness after sinning?

It means when we ask for forgivness we are already forgiven but we have to acknlowge our wrong and commit to avoiding them.
For example A sin is commited today and I acknowlege it and ask forgivness but tommorow if I do another sin it is that sin that seperates me from Christ so when sees me he doesn't see Christ because when I sin I am choosing sin, I reject Christ. Like the prodigal son choose sin over his father but as soon as repented all was forgiven, In fact I'm sure in the father heart he was wanting him back but not his actions.

 

[Bendito]

The problem of our sinful nature is taken care of but we are still responsible to live as Jesus does. When we fall down it is still at least considerate of us to think of His feelings and apologize. We would apologize to anyone else wouldn't we? I put it this way just to keep it simple.


Romans 8:1-8 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

8 Therefore, there is no longer any condemnation awaiting those who are in union with the Messiah Yeshua. 2 Why? Because the Torah of the Spirit, which produces this life in union with Messiah Yeshua, has set me free from the “Torah” of sin and death. 3 For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate, God did by sending his own Son as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one [but without sin]. God did this in order to deal with sin, and in so doing he executed the punishment against sin in human nature, 4 so that the just requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us who do not run our lives according to what our old nature wants but according to what the Spirit wants. 5 For those who identify with their old nature set their minds on the things of the old nature, but those who identify with the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 Having one’s mind controlled by the old nature is death, but having one’s mind controlled by the Spirit is life and shalom. 7 For the mind controlled by the old nature is hostile to God, because it does not submit itself to God’s Torah — indeed, it cannot. 8 Thus, those who identify with their old nature cannot please God.

 

[B-A-C]

8 Therefore, there is no longer any condemnation awaiting those who are in union with the Messiah Yeshua. 2 Why? Because the Torah of the Spirit, which produces this life in union with Messiah Yeshua, has set me free from the “Torah” of sin and death. 3 For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate, God did by sending his own Son as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one [but without sin]. God did this in order to deal with sin, and in so doing he executed the punishment against sin in human nature, 4 so that the just requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us who do not run our lives according to what our old nature wants but according to what the Spirit wants. 5 For those who identify with their old nature set their minds on the things of the old nature, but those who identify with the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 Having one’s mind controlled by the old nature is death, but having one’s mind controlled by the Spirit is life and shalom. 7 For the mind controlled by the old nature is hostile to God, because it does not submit itself to God’s Torah — indeed, it cannot. 8 Thus, those who identify with their old nature cannot please God.

It's interesting.. some Bible use the word "law" instead of Torah here.
Torah simply means "instruction" or "teachings". So instead of submitting to the law (which seems to have negative implications to some)
We should be submitting to the teachings.... (why would God teach us anything that negatively impacts us?)

 

[Bendito]

It's interesting.. some Bible use the word "law" instead of Torah here.
Torah simply means "instruction" or "teachings". So instead of submitting to the law (which seems to have negative implications to some)
We should be submitting to the teachings.... (why would God teach us anything that negatively impacts us?)

It's interesting to note too B-A-C that in many cases in the Word, one can safely replace the word 'law' with the word 'Word' And get the same meaning and clearer too.

 

[B-A-C]

Rom 8:1; Therefore there is now no condemnation.... (many people end there, but the entire verse says) ... for those who in Christ Jesus.

Are we always in Christ? Is everything we do Christlike? Would Jesus do everything we have done? How about everything you did
yesterday? There are times we are living in the Spirit, and there are times when we aren't. We need to ask forgiveness for those times
we aren't.

1 Jn 1:9; If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

You were forgiven when you were saved. Have you sinned since then?

Jon 13:10; Jesus said to him, "He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean...

 

[Bendito]

Rom 8:1; Therefore there is now no condemnation.... (many people end there, but the entire verse says) ... for those who in Christ Jesus.

Are we always in Christ? Is everything we do Christlike? Would Jesus do everything we have done? How about everything you did
yesterday? There are times we are living in the Spirit, and there are times when we aren't. We need to ask forgiveness for those times
we aren't.

1 Jn 1:9; If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

You were forgiven when you were saved. Have you sinned since then?

Jon 13:10; Jesus said to him, "He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean...

1 Corinthians 1:25-31King James Version (KJV)

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:21King James Version (KJV)
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him

According to these two verses we are in Christ all the time, and we are the righteousness of God in Christ all the time. So then...what if we sin? Oops. We confess our sin and get back into that place where we belong.

John 1:9King James Version (KJV)

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

.

Kind of like what a parent does when their kid gets all muddy or p...Never mind...lol

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Let us not make sin so little :

So then...what if we sin? Oops

The father of the son loved the son.The son was loved and forgiveness was part of that love as one facet of the multi faced unconditional nature of that love. Though love pours forth, one cannot drink of the fountain from afar but must draw near and indeed, get wet.
What separates us but refusal to come, to return, to re-turn?
Do we believe, are we persuaded, is our conviction convincing, that with the Father we will find love in all its life giving fullness, complete, wanting nothing?
Would we despise the blood of His Son, can we forget His mercy and grace?
With fear and trembling, let us work out our salvation and be thankful with hope and all diligence, knowing this, that God, who spared not His own Son, will with Him freely give us all things and be confident that with Him, the Son, there is no condemnation.

Brothers, if you step up to the light you depart from darkness, just as if you take shelter from the rain you shall not get wet and we have the promise, His Word, that He SHALL wipe all tears from our eyes.

Go.... and sin no more.

Bless you ....><>

 

[Bendito]

Greetings,

Let us not make sin so little :



The father of the son loved the son.The son was loved and forgiveness was part of that love as one facet of the multi faced unconditional nature of that love. Though love pours forth, one cannot drink of the fountain from afar but must draw near and indeed, get wet.
What separates us but refusal to come, to return, to re-turn?
Do we believe, are we persuaded, is our conviction convincing, that with the Father we will find love in all its life giving fullness, complete, wanting nothing?
Would we despise the blood of His Son, can we forget His mercy and grace?
With fear and trembling, let us work out our salvation and be thankful with hope and all diligence, knowing this, that God, who spared not His own Son, will with Him freely give us all things and be confident that with Him, the Son, there is no condemnation.

Brothers, if you step up to the light you depart from darkness, just as if you take shelter from the rain you shall not get wet and we have the promise, His Word, that He SHALL wipe all tears from our eyes.

Go.... and sin no more.

Bless you ....><>

Nuff said!! Good answer!!

 

[KingJ]

So, dumb question here - in regard to the bold part - After we are saved, God sees Christ's perfection and not our imperfection. Does this mean that in God's eyes, we are no longer sinners? When we commit a sin is God not aware of it since he only sees Christ's perfection? If so, then once we are saved, is it no longer necessary to ask for forgiveness after sinning?

Evidence of loving God is being quick to repent. As loving God is hating what is evil. 'If you love me obey my commandments'....every commandment is geared to hating what is evil. Genuine love for God is to hate what is evil and cling to what is good Rom 12:9.

We are perfect in our hearts / spirits but not mind / flesh. Our flesh sins daily Rom 7:15 so we should all be finding ourselves repenting daily.

Then...there is the risk that maybe just maybe we are in fact NOT a Christian. Paul's teaching is full of warnings to us to constantly examine ourselves to be in Christ.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Evidence of loving God is being quick to repent. As loving God is hating what is evil. 'If you love me obey my commandments'....every commandment is geared to hating what is evil. Genuine love for God is to hate what is evil and cling to what is good Rom 12:9.

We are perfect in our hearts / spirits but not mind / flesh. Our flesh sins daily Rom 7:15 so we should all be finding ourselves repenting daily.

Then...there is the risk that maybe just maybe we are in fact NOT a Christian. Paul's teaching is full of warnings to us to constantly examine ourselves to be in Christ.

If one's spirit is perfect then how can there be a risk.
The body is dead because of sin,so no risk there
The soul is being purified from unworthy vessels.So it's at the shop on jacks and there is no risk there because he who began a good work in you is faithful to complete it.
The spirit was given by God and returns to God who gave it.No risk there either.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

What of the soul which can also be translated self.
We are supposed to deny self right?
To purge ourselves of all but love because God is love.

The question is do you consider yourself a spirit,a soul or a body?

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

If you want to be forgiven then forgive.

 

[JohnP]

For example A sin is commited today and I acknowlege it and ask forgivness but tommorow if I do another sin it is that sin that seperates me from Christ so when sees me he doesn't see Christ because when I sin I am choosing sin, I reject Christ.

Are you implying that every time I sin I lose my salvation? What if (a truly saved person) sins at 5:00, and then at 5:15, before he has thought to repent and ask for forgiveness, he gets hit by a bus and dies? Is he going to hell because for that 15 minutes he chose to sin and rejected Christ?

 

[JohnP]

Evidence of loving God is being quick to repent. As loving God is hating what is evil. 'If you love me obey my commandments'....every commandment is geared to hating what is evil. Genuine love for God is to hate what is evil and cling to what is good Rom 12:9.

We are perfect in our hearts / spirits but not mind / flesh. Our flesh sins daily Rom 7:15 so we should all be finding ourselves repenting daily.

Then...there is the risk that maybe just maybe we are in fact NOT a Christian. Paul's teaching is full of warnings to us to constantly examine ourselves to be in Christ.

The answers are drifting way off of what prompted me to ask this question in the first place. Let me re-state it. Chad's original post stated -

"This means that when God looks upon us He sees Christ’s perfection and not our imperfection."

So, look at that sentence. Everyone's answers seem to be adding "except for when we sin" to the end of it. "This means that when God looks upon us He sees Christ’s perfection and not our imperfection . . . except for when we sin"

Don't add the variable "well, what if we're not really a Christian". Let's assume we are in fact, talking about a born again, saved Christian. Is this a true statement - 1) "This means that when God looks upon us He sees Christ’s perfection and not our imperfection."

or is this a true statement - 2) "This means that when God looks upon us He sees Christ’s perfection and not our imperfection . . . except for when we sin."

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

So, look at that sentence. Everyone's answers seem to be adding "except for when we sin" to the end of it. "This means that when God looks upon us He sees Christ’s perfection and not our imperfection . . . except for when we sin"

That wouldn't make sense now would it.
Many of the answers seem to promote this confusion but not all.

 

[KingJ]

The answers are drifting way off of what prompted me to ask this question in the first place. Let me re-state it. Chad's original post stated -

"This means that when God looks upon us He sees Christ’s perfection and not our imperfection."

So, look at that sentence. Everyone's answers seem to be adding "except for when we sin" to the end of it. "This means that when God looks upon us He sees Christ’s perfection and not our imperfection . . . except for when we sin"

Don't add the variable "well, what if we're not really a Christian". Let's assume we are in fact, talking about a born again, saved Christian. Is this a true statement - 1) "This means that when God looks upon us He sees Christ’s perfection and not our imperfection."

or is this a true statement - 2) "This means that when God looks upon us He sees Christ’s perfection and not our imperfection . . . except for when we sin."

When we are saved we sink to a depth of intent that over shadows whatever else we do.

Though there is a blur with mortal sins. A saved person should not be able to commit them. We would never be able to sink to a depth of loving intent with God and then be able to commit a mortal sin. It is like marrying our wives whilst committing adultery. It is hardly a valid marriage.

When Paul spoke to the churches he always gave them the benefit of the doubt / spoke to them all as though they were genuine Christians. This is how we are to preach. Warning people to not go back to sin / shipwreck salvation. But I think Paul knew full well that God 'knows' who are His. He judges hearts and minds at a level no human can Jer 17:9-10.

So from our vantage point option 2 if the sin is a mortal sin. From God's, option 1.

 

[KingJ]

If one's spirit is perfect then how can there be a risk.
The body is dead because of sin,so no risk there
The soul is being purified from unworthy vessels.So it's at the shop on jacks and there is no risk there 1. because he who began a good work in you is faithful to complete it. The spirit was given by God and returns to God who gave it.No risk there either.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

What of the soul which can also be translated self.
We are supposed to deny self right?
To purge ourselves of all but love because God is love.

2. The question is do you consider yourself a spirit,a soul or a body?

Mark 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

3. If you want to be forgiven then forgive.

1. Well I guess some may 'think' God started a work in them.

2. All of the above.

3. Amen.

I am not sure what you are trying to say. You start with OSAS / a touch of Calvinism (with the spirit returning to God) and then end with an Arminian statement. .