Loyal
You forgot the parrable . Where the enemy sows weeds into the fields. What does the Master of the field say . Dont pull out the weeds as you might harm the harvest too. Let them grow up together . And in the end they will be separated
If the church is “Raptured” in this generation, what are the people left still, in the “Institutionalized church”, called?
Loyal
That parable you are referring too, for those who believe in the rapture belongs to those who are going through the 7 year tribulation period. So you are out of context in what we believe. 7 year tribulation saints has the same word of God too.
You see people will be still going to church and being preach to.
You see people will be still going to church and being preach to.
Loyal
The one's who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour are lost souls. They are not-born-again. John 3:1-21. John 3:3. 3:5, 3:7 Jesus makes it clear we Must be born again, we should not be surprised that we should be born again, if we are not born again, we WILL NOT SEE the Kingdom of Heaven, not here on earth, not at the Rapture, not after Christ has returned and made all things new. I have referred to the first 21 verses in John 3 here for a reason, the message about being born again comes first, then we are told about God's amazing love on verses 16 and 17, but many miss the conclusion at the end. Those who are lost souls, have no one else to blame but themselves, they are condemned already because they refuse to believe on the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ who died for their sin.
There are many who are church goers but are not born again, they believe they will go to heaven, they have either not been taught The Truth, they think they are saved because they were christened or baptised as an infant, they think they are good people, they have failed to understand the very words Jesus said, the very words He repeated three times to emphasise the Truth. We must be Born again! What a terrible shock they have coming to them, we can only pray for them.
At present the earth includes those who are Saved Souls (God's children) and those who are Lost Souls, who belong to sin, the world and the devil.
After the Rapture there will only be Lost Souls on earth.
Bless you
Loyal
Title of thread: If the church is “Rapture” in this generation, what are the people left still, in the “Institutionalize church”, are called?
Those left behind are 'Lost Souls' which includes all who are not saved.
Those left behind does not just include the lost souls in the institutionalised churches, it includes all souls that are not saved.
Peace be with you.
Those left behind are 'Lost Souls' which includes all who are not saved.
Those left behind does not just include the lost souls in the institutionalised churches, it includes all souls that are not saved.
Peace be with you.
Active
Matthew 24:29-31 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and
the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the
Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory: And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together his ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
For comparison:
Rev 6:9-11 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them THAT WERE SLAIN FOR THE WORD OF GOD, and for the testimony they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long O Lord, holy and true , dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given to every one of them; and it was said unto them that they should rest yet for a little season, UNTIL THEIR FELLOW SERVANTS ALSO AND THEIR BRETHREN, THAT SHOULD BE KILLED AS THEY WERE SHOULD BE FULFILLED.
Rev 6:12-13 " And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal , and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair and the moon became
as blood, And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth..........."
I don't see the stars of heaven falling to the earth more than once. These two accounts are descriptions of the same event. That event brings the gathering of the elect
and it is IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION. And it is apparent from the 5th seal opening as to why this will not occur until AFTER.
THE FELLOW SERVANTS AND BRETHREN THAT HAVE THE WORD OF GOD AND A TESTIMONY SHOULD BE KILLED AS THOSE SOULS UNDER THE ALTAR WERE.
Now if you add Daniel 11:32-36 "And such as do wickedly to the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the PEOPLE THAT DO KNOW THEIR GOD SHALL BE STRONG
AND DO EXPLOITS. And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: YET THEY SHALL FALL BY THE SWORD, AND BY FLAME , BY CAPTIVITY, AND BY
SPOIL, MANY DAYS. Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. AND SOME OF THEM OF UNDERSTANDING SHALL FALL, TO TRY THEM, AND TO PURGE, AND TO MAKE THEM WHITE, EVEN TO THE TIME OF THE END; because it is yet for a time appointed."
"And the king shall do according to his will: and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every God, and shall speak marvelous things against
the God of gods........
added to show that it is during the second half of the anti Christ's seven yr period that this takes place.
ROMANS 12:1 " I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you PRESENT YOUR BODIES A LIVING SACRIFICE, HOLY, ACCEPTABLE UNTO GOD,
WHICH IS YOUR REASONABLE SERVICE.
Hope this helps settle the question in your mind as to when and why. Laid out almost entirely by scripture not opinion.
Now for opinions sake I would say that the pre-tribbers ,who have it wrong, will be the great falling away when they see the tribulation taking place and will lose what faith if any they had. These will also betray the true Christians, as they will now believe the whole thing was a lie. Example is Santa Clause or the Tooth Fairy that your parents told you about but when you grew up you found out that both were a lie so can you believe anything they said that requires faith as you have not experienced it yet?
On the other hand those that do know God by experience don't care as to when they leave or how, they are just here to do their Fathers will whatever that may be.
"I come to do thy will O God" The MIND OF CHRIST.
Active
I think NON-ELECT would suffice.
Loyal
If you believe the rapture will happen before the Tribulation. Are the Two Witnesses lost souls then ?
Loyal
I feel sorry for you .
All of Mankind are Gods Created Children .
And you who deem yourselves worthy must humble yourselves as servants to the rest of Mankind, in the same way that Jesus humbled Himself to take the form of a human . It was Jesus who said follow me .
Following Jesus is more than following the words , but doing as He said.
Do you brother wash the feet of the " Lost " do You go out amoung the towns and villiages preaching to the sick in spirit . It is easy to stand behind the pulpit and teach those who you know. And those of like mind . But as a teacher that God calls you to be , you must go to those who hate you . You must be willing to give up your life for the sake of those who are " Lost ".
Sincerely , your brother in Christ
Loyal
It is a terrible word of judgement i will never use on another . Nor should anyone here be so bold as to say it. You will only condemn yourself.
Active
I did not make the vessels fitted to destruction. Nor did I make myself a vessel of mercy. God did both.
Loyal
Greetings Bill
A good question, it is always good to get us to look back at the scriptures and refresh our knowledge.
The first question I would raise based on what you have said is, where are the two witnesses when the Rapture occurs? At the point of the Rapture?
We know that God will grant the two witnesses authority and it will be for 1260 days, but when do they actually come onto the scene? At the rapture or within the seven year, Tribulation and Great Tribulation periods.
Revelation 11:3
And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.
Malachi tells us Elijah the prophet will be sent, before, the coming of the great and terrible day.
Malachi 4:5
Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD.
We also know the two witnesses will be called back to Heaven
Revelation 11:12
And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here " Then they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them.
We also know that The Two Witnesses are Moses and Elijah.
In 1 Kings 18 - It is Elijah who calls down fire from heaven.
It is Elijah who shut the sky so that it would not rain.
It is Moses who struck the Nile and turned it to blood.
It was Moses who struck the land of Egypt with plagues
The two witnesses seem to appear in the first part of the Tribulation period, but when in the first part? At the time of the Rapture?
Looking in more detail... The first 3.5 years being 42 months, the period for the two witness' 1260 days, 42 months
Please fill in any gaps or bits missed, all, it was a good question you raised brother Bill
Bless you.
Loyal
They are not Moses and Elijah. Where both Moses and Elijah beseeched God to do as they asked . Both the Witnesses have greater authority , the authority of God . For scripture states. " They are able " meaning it is by thier authority . " as often as they like " . ( please see Rev 11 : 6 )
Also where Elijah and Moses are concerned . It is not them as we see the example of John the Baptist, where Jesus says that John the Baptist was Elijah. And we all know by way of scripture that John was born . So this is showing us , the same is true with the Two Witnesses. That they are born and were children and are now grown men. Each with similar gifts to Elijah and Moses . Yet they are not those two . But i will tell you . They are like bookends , looking the same but opposites. And all that God is, is between them,
Loyal
Yes, God Has created all of mankind. Well -- He did create Adam and then made Eve out of Adam. And God does allow egg/ ***** to bring forth a child. That is the only way human life comes into being. But that does Not mean that all of humanity will be born again.
The rapture will be only those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. The universal church -- there are born again people all over this world.
Someone said that only the Elect will be taken up. Well -- while that is true -- God is the only one who knows who they are. I'm not concerned about who the 'elect' might or might not be. The concern should be to share the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen. Whether it be from behind a pulpit -- or a neighbor -- whomever. As the Holy Spirit guides - share. Our actions / words will be a 'witness' to others.
But we need to be careful that our own efforts to win others , does not become a 'good work' on our part. Our expectations of others can become misplaced.
Loyal
As far as your question on the timing of the Rapture . It will happen at Christ's return . You will live through the days of the Great Tribulation and die a martyr . It will happen near the end.
But it wont be without struggle, all you have learned about the pre trib rapture. You have put too much stock into it. The realization of its falsehood will nearly break you . When the time comes . You will remember my words . " I stand before God the Father and forgive you " .
As we sit here today , you will reject my words and who i am .
But i have already forgiven you brother.
Go in God's Peace and Love , bill
Loyal
Sue , i cant wait for that hot summer day to come , when you wake up to find 10 feet of snow on your house .
Think of me kindly on that day .
Loyal
Sue , to whom does Paul talk of in Romans 2 ; 14 thru 16 . I tell you Sue , these pagans Paul speaks of will be in heaven . And they will not know of Jesus name until they are with Him in paradise.
Who are the Jews , Paul speaks of in Romans 2 : 28 and 29 .
Why they are anyone whose heart is circumcised. For Scripture states " the real Jew is the one who is inwardly a Jew "
Paul is talking about anyone / everyone that has God deep in thier heart .
As we spoke before . What part of God is not God. So if a Jew understands the teachings handed down by Moses . And Loves God deeply in his heart . He already Loves Jesus , he just doesnt understand the knowledge of Jesus. And the Muslim , if he has great love for God. God lives in his heart . What part of God is not God . The Muslim has no clue of the Holy Spirit nor Jesus . But because he Loves God, he already loves the others too.
This is why Paul says in Romans 8 28 thru 30 . " We know that by turning everything to thier good, God cooperates with all those who love him, with all those that He has called according to his purpose. They are the ones he chose specially long ago an intended to become true images of his Son, so that his Son might be the eldest of many brothers. He called those he intended for this, those he called he justified, and with those he justified he shared his glory. "
Loyal
Lol. Sue isnt the only one .
Loyal
Lol. Sue isnt the only one .
He shall not break the bending reed, nor put out the flickering flame.
This passage is not only for Jesus, but all who wish to follow Him.
Active
Maybe I should clarify myself for you. The nation of Israel were Gods chosen people in the Old Testament and the rest were consider gentiles or not chosen.
Then when the New Testament was ratified Jesus made of two peoples one people who are the chosen of God but not necessarily the elect in this dispensation of time.
But in another dispensation of time there will be another group of elect, and still yet another group that are not elect. Both are necessary for maturation of the elect
in each dispensation. THE MYSTERY OF INIQUITY.
Ephesians 1:10 "That in the dispensation of the fullness of TIMES he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth;
even in him."
If there is more than one dispensation of time, which there is, then ALL THINGS including ALL PEOPLE will be reconciled to God through Jesus and the anointing
of the Holy Ghost as this is what causes death to be destroyed as ALL have come unto life. So ALL are the elect of God but the Elect are the elect at different times
in the dispensation of the completion of the TIMES. Some only see this one time that we are in now, others more.
1 Co 15:22-23 " For as in Adam ALL DIE, even so IN CHRIST shall ALL BE MADE ALIVE. But EVERY MAN in his own order."
This is freedom: to know that God intends to make ALL ALIVE IN CHRIST (THE ANOINTING OF HIS SPIRIT), it's just a matter of timing,
thus the need for the fullness of TIMES.
Titus 1:2 "In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began." Before even Adam was made he promised it, but to who?
I've often asked the question did the original sin of Adam bring about a greater condemnation than the justification unto life that Jesus bought for all with his own blood?
The answer of course is the sacrifice was so much more than the original sin it is hardly worth comparison. And both the condemnation and the justification were
decrees of God for both situations. And no one has ever over ridden his first decree of condemnation as we have all lived it in the flesh. So why would we believe his
second decree unto a justification of life for ALL would somehow be nullified by our own choices, the first wasn't, has God abdicated his throne in favor of our wisdom? Hardly!!
Romans 5:18 Tells it exactly as it is. "Therefore as through one mans offense judgement came to ALL MEN, resulting in condemnation, even so by one Mans righteous
act the FREE GIFT CAME TO ALL MEN, RESULTING IN JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE."
Romans 11:32 "For God hath concluded them ALL in UNBELIEF, that HE might HAVE MERCY UPON ALL." SAYS THE SAME THING AS ROMANS 5:18 with different
words to make the point.
I hope that clears the air.