I Think most True Christians really do not understand what happen In The Fall in Genesis. and as far as their conversation, goes, ADAM died.

[PloughBoy]

I also think some christians do not know how serious the fall was, and how evil it is. and if they cannot see how evil, the most evilest of all the crimes that ever existed. They will not take their own salvation and deliverance that serious. But by not doing so, their proclamation of "The Gospel of Jesus Christ" is proclaim in a Lukewarm manner with a lot of excuses in their defense. But if in their conversation of "the Salvation story" was more active in their daily conversation of the events to bring them into remembrance, i think it would have a better effect than the "superficial" act of every 1st Sunday or everyday of receiving "The Lord supper" for remembrance. Please note: I am not attacking the "LORD Supper"! But addressing our conversation concerning "The salvation Story", but we must truly understand what happen in "The Fall" in Genesis. Now what happen simple things, but great deteriorations.

your thoughts?

 

[Hekuran]

I think you consistently underestimate most Christians.

 

[PloughBoy]

I think you consistently underestimate most Christians.

It is possible, but i been talking Christ around this country and Canada for over 40 years and talking Christ. and paying attention to certain Research polls, and conversations with christians and non. in over at least 45 states of these USA. I talked BIBLE, with men women and teenagers and children. And speaking i cannot remember at how many times, "impromptu's' They admit how short they come, people do. but if every Sunday you are going to same building and the same people, and that is the most you engage about Jesus and the bible, I can understand your views. and doing a few soup kitchen events and a few scripted nursing homes visits. But really engaged where the "HOLY SPIRIT" is flowing through you! And YOU FEEL THAT OIL POURING all over you! Like Heaven's gateway is opening up! And the way people, strangers look at you, with a light in their eyes. Stores, Malls, SuperMarkets and Gasoline Stations, Then every now and then, the scripture would come to mind, "a city that sits on a hill" it is a lot more than the Word of God that come through you but the "Light, that generates that word." and that light is not a church! That light, that is in you is "Christ Jesus"! For you are The Temple Of GOD! and God dwells in You, But you must remain in the Vine! and Keep yourselves from all kinds of idols! I think that if Some Christians really knew understood How Christ Jesus is in them. Their understanding would be so much broaden and their conversation would be more heavenly instead of earthly, and GOD will still be doing the work in them and they would not be working in the flesh in which they contribute that work to be the work of God they are doing.

 

[Dave M]

when ever I read a lot of your post PB one scripture always pops in my mind.


The Pharisee and the Tax Collector Luke 18

9To some who trusted in their own righteousness and viewed others with contempt, He also told this parable:
10“Two men went up to the temple to pray. One was a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed,a ‘God, I thank You that I am not like the other men—swindlers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.
12I fast twice a week and pay tithes of all that I acquire.’
13But the tax collector stood at a distance, unwilling even to lift up his eyes to heaven. Instead, he beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner!’
14I tell you, this man, rather than the Pharisee, went home justified. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

 

[Dave M]

reading the word is great and a lot of people are full of book knowledge, but do they get wisdom from what they read ??? unless they are putting into action what they read they are with out wisdom.

So as it will be when Jesus separates the goat and the sheep, they all seemed to know Jesus and believed, yet the one difference was called out, the Goats did nothing, the sheep actually helped the needy they were servants,

 

[PloughBoy]

when ever I read a lot of your post PB one scripture always pops in my mind.


The Pharisee and the Tax Collector Luke 18

9To some who trusted in their own righteousness and viewed others with contempt, He also told this parable:
10“Two men went up to the temple to pray. One was a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed,a ‘God, I thank You that I am not like the other men—swindlers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.
12I fast twice a week and pay tithes of all that I acquire.’
13But the tax collector stood at a distance, unwilling even to lift up his eyes to heaven. Instead, he beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner!’
14I tell you, this man, rather than the Pharisee, went home justified. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

I act like a Pharisee, maybe i do. Paul did too, Nicodemus did too, and Joseph of Arimathea. So you think i should talk like a "Tax Collector" more than a Pharisee? Just trying to sum up plainly a picture of what you are saying. for i know what the tax collector and the Pharisee said in Luke 18.

 

[PloughBoy]

reading the word is great and a lot of people are full of book knowledge, but do they get wisdom from what they read ??? unless they are putting into action what they read they are with out wisdom.

So as it will be when Jesus separates the goat and the sheep, they all seemed to know Jesus and believed, yet the one difference was called out, the Goats did nothing, the sheep actually helped the needy they were servants,

How does a person get wisdom and how does a person get Godly wisdom. Well God is the one who gives all wisdom, and if we do not have any, GOD just didn't give us none. But i do understand Fearing God Is The beginning of Wisdom, and believe me "I FEAR HIM"!

PS God is the one who makes Sheep and Goats. "Can a Leopard change its spots"?

 

[Dave M]

PS God is the one who makes Sheep and Goats. "Can a Leopard change its spots"?

Jesus said to seek the kingdom of God to everyone,,,

All are invited,,


Jesus came to save all people

its us to us to accept the wedding invitation

 

[PloughBoy]

ok, that is enough, i tried to wait on thoughts concerning the title Tread: "I Think most True Christians really do not understand what happen In The Fall in Genesis. and as far as their conversation, goes, ADAM died. "

Before the fall of mankind, the bees would not sting you, the mosquitos was not a pest. if you took a swim in the river you would not drown. When you ran with the Lions and the Tigers you would not sweat, nor did you have body odor. And when night fell, the stars were pure in light, you could sleep without being cold or hot, but the atmosphere was perfect for mankind condition, if you step on a stone bare footed, the stone would not hurt your foot. You could play with the "Adler"who would land on your arm lay down beside the "Viper" and have no fear! why because there was no such thing as fear, "for perfect love cast out fear" There was no fear even of God, before The Fall. The Sun would not even harm your eyes as you gaze into it's strength. You could run and not get tired. The Hawk would play with The Squirrel, and the Bear would cuddle with the sheep as would the Gazelle would run along beside Cheetah, and when night falls the Wolf would play with the moon and engage with the crickets and the owls and play along with the Frogs for "A wood land Concert" that would echo through the night to sing you to you, for a good night sleep. undisturbed. No need for "ADT" or worried about a "3 am call". or it's 11 pm, do you know where your teenager are at. or it is 5 am do you know where your daughter is at. for all is well before the Fall: Now can you rightly understand what was said: "What have you done?"

8When the cool evening breezes were blowing, the mana and his wife heard the LORD God walking about in the garden. So they hid from the LORD God among the trees. 9Then the LORD God called to the man, “Where are you?”

10He replied, “I heard you walking in the garden, so I hid. I was afraid because I was naked.” ["The first fear that entered the universe"]

11“Who told you that you were naked?” the LORD God asked. “Have you eaten from the tree whose fruit I commanded you not to eat?”

12The man replied, “It was the woman you gave me who gave me the fruit, and I ate it.”

13Then the LORD God asked the woman, “What have you done?” [in other words, God shook His head and said: you do not know "What You Have Done"!

 

[B-A-C]

You have to admit.. it's a bit inconsistent here. According to you...

God decides who is a goat and who is a sheep (predestination).

But yet He tells Eve... "You don't know what you've done".. as if she had control over it.

I don't think you can have it both ways.

 

[PloughBoy]

TRUE, the calling went out to all!
International Standard Version
"Keep on struggling to enter through the narrow door, because I tell you that many people will try to enter, but won't be able to do so.


37Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.…
(John 6).

Berean Study Bible
For many are called, but few are chosen.”

Whatsoever God wills, comes to pass! His will, supersedes all wills! If He wills all to be saved, ALL gets saved! Our God is not a man. He is The Almighty GOD! He is not a God that hopes a person get saved and wish that all will be saved. When He speaks it happens. His will is done on earth just like it is done in Heaven! or do you dis agree?

 

[PloughBoy]

You have to admit.. it's a bit inconsistent here. According to you...

God decides who is a goat and who is a sheep (predestination).

But yet He tells Eve... "You don't know what you've done".. as if she had control over it.

I don't think you can have it both ways.

is not God the Creator of all things. I have never saw a Goat turn themselves into a Sheep!

was not Eve perfect and sin had not entered the world yet?

I see you do not understand Scripture or have not read the story.

 

[PloughBoy]

Jesus said to seek the kingdom of God to everyone,,,

All are invited,,


Jesus came to save all people

its us to us to accept the wedding invitation

I was wondering if a person is "spiritual dead" dead in their trespasses and sins. How can a dead person accept and reach out and take and read a "wedding invitation"? is not dead is dead? and who would send a dead person a wedding Invitation? surely God wouldn't.

Now think about that.

 

[B-A-C]

Whatsoever God wills, comes to pass! His will, supersedes all wills! If He wills all to be saved, ALL gets saved!

How do you reconcile ...

1Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

1 Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance

with verses like...

Matt 7: 21; “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
Matt 7:23; And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Matt 25:11; Later the other virgins also came, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open up for us.’
Matt 25:12; But he answered, ‘Truly I say to you, I do not know you.’

Matt 25:30; Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Are these last three passage incorrect? Was Jesus lying when He said them?
The only way both sides reconcile with each other is... God "wants" all men to be saved... He "wants" us to choose Him. But He doesn't force us to.
He's at the door knocking... but it's up to us to open the door.

Luke 13:23; And someone said to Him, “Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?”

Do you know what Jesus answered here?

Matt 7:13; “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Matt 7:14; For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

If only a "few" find the path to life... How does God's will that "all men be saved".. "not wishing for any to perish" reconcile with this?

 

[B-A-C]

surely God wouldn't.

But the Bible says He did.

Matt 22:3; "And he sent out his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come.

 

[PloughBoy]

i will address this portion of the text. "who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" the word here "desires" is a translation problem of the english reader for the greek has also punctuation marks to convey the thought patterns of the text. and as a english reader reads that word "desires" that person automatically jumps in the english thinking mold. and not understand the Greek word desires and it's particular intent. This is what "Theologian and Critical Scholars" labels or call " a problem text"! and to make it clear for you. the word problem here means, like a 'Mathematical problem" and do not mean "a problem that is hard to solve" ok. That is far as i am going to go with that. and that is for a reason. remember how some say: "i does not take all of that". i say, "depends on where you are going and how far you want to go"

 

[PloughBoy]

But the Bible says He did.

Matt 22:3; "And he sent out his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come.

"God is the God of the Living and not the Dead" Jesus said:, and Jesus do not lie. dead men cannot read "spiritual invitations"

PS are you having fun yet?

 

[Dave M]

I was wondering if a person is "spiritual dead" dead in their trespasses and sins. How can a dead person accept and reach out and take and read a "wedding invitation"? is not dead is dead? and who would send a dead person a wedding Invitation? surely God wouldn't.

Now think about that.

dear brother the more I think about it the sadder I get for you,

you are arguing over what scripture teaches

 

[Dave M]

Matthew 6:33
But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

now it seems to me those that already are born again most likeley are already seeking the Kingdom so this must be for the dead !! for when I was dead this is what I did I seeked God with everything I had, and years later I finally got changed, then some more time I finally started producing fruit, then some more time I started more fellowship

Luke 19:10
For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

Seems Jesus cares a lot more about the lost then those that are already saved thank God for I was once lost.



there is more rejoicing over one sinner who is saved in heaven then those that are righteous

Luke 15:7
Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

 

[PloughBoy]

dear brother the more I think about it the sadder I get for you,

you are arguing over what scripture teaches

he Parable of the Banquet
…11But when the king came in to see the guests, he spotted a man who was not dressed in wedding clothes. 12‘Friend,’ he asked, ‘how did you get in here withoutwedding clothes?’ But the man was speechless. 13Then the king told the servants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’…

You ought to be sad about, who wants to get in and they are turn away. "Many will want to come in, but will be turn away" " they will knock on the door and it will be locked and Jesus will not open it". " many are called to the wedding but out of that calling only a few will be chosen". " salvation is a gift, faith is a gift it is not earn so there is nothing to boast about" I don't care how many Hail Marys you toss in the air. To believe in Jesus Christ is a gift. But many Christians are filled with so much pride in giving them selves credit for their believeth in Jesus. That they do not understand the salvation message, and they witness in the flesh, and making a lot of noise and not bearing any fruit in such matters And they become angry and human critical and they try to slay the messenger, when the Truth is "Proclaim". Of pleasing "The Creator" and not "the creature". If I chose to please man I have become a enemy of God" neither is my messages after man. But to please God.

8But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim a gospel contrary to the one we proclaimed to you, let him be under a curse! 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is proclaiming to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be under a curse!

Paul Proclaiming the Gospel

10Am I now seeking the approval of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ. 11For I certify to you, brothers, that the gospel I preached was not devised by man.b 12I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

And Paul did say: "follow me as I follow Christ" and His foot steps are recorded as well as "Jesus Christ" are.

Which words have I said that is contrary, to the "Gospel of Jesus Christ" and positive to the working for the devil?