I am not Pelagian!

[Tommy061]

I follow Jesus Christ, and the narrow road, I stand against original sin, and the heretic Augustine, and Luther, as well as all the other reformed teachers who teach original sin, faith alone, imputed righteousness, osas, etc.. I have been falsely accused by dutch christian, and have given this forum truth that transforms, I encourage the few who are not under the strong delusion to wake up, repent, and seek the mercy of God.

Mat 10:14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.
Mat 10:15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

1 Ti 4:1But the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons. (Doctrines of demons)

 

[james1523]

I follow Jesus Christ, and the narrow road, I stand against original sin, and the heretic Augustine, and Luther, as well as all the other reformed teachers who teach original sin, faith alone, imputed righteousness, osas, etc.. I have been falsely accused by dutch christian, and have given this forum truth that transforms, I encourage the few who are not under the strong delusion to wake up, repent, and seek the mercy of God.

Mat 10:14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.
Mat 10:15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

1 Ti 4:1But the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons. (Doctrines of demons)

Pelagianism teaches limited depravity, isn't denial of total depravity thus limited depravity and therefore Pelagian?

 

[CareGiver]

I follow Jesus Christ, and the narrow road, I stand against original sin, and the heretic Augustine, and Luther, as well as all the other reformed teachers who teach original sin, faith alone, imputed righteousness, osas, etc.. I have been falsely accused by dutch christian, and have given this forum truth that transforms, I encourage the few who are not under the strong delusion to wake up, repent, and seek the mercy of God.

Mat 10:14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.
Mat 10:15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

1 Ti 4:1But the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons. (Doctrines of demons)

We are sorry to hear others have accused you for your understanding, as if they know you are wrong (1 Corinthians 8:2). Much of the time when we believe another is in error, it is because of miscommunication.

We read your replys to the "Separating of the Sheep and the Goats" post and agree with many of the things you wrote.

Original sin - otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy (1 Corinthians 7:14). A child born holy has no sin, but is weak until Christ is formed in them.

Faith alone - Faith without works is a "dead faith" (James 2:26), .......a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. (James 2:24)
(We are justified in being forgiven of past sins by faith in Christ alone, but not justified to be made righteous by being born of GOD by faith only).

Inputed righteousness - We are justified when we have died with Christ by being joined together with His Spirit into His death, and made righteous when we are born of GOD by being made alive together with the Spirit of Christ.

GOD provided Jesus Christ as our mediator so we might be reconciled to GOD.
We are to be holy.....because it is written, "BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY." (1 Peter 1:16).
He who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him (1 John 5:18).

GOD gave us a free will. We can walk with the Spirit and be conformed to the image of GOD, or we can follow after the fleshly ways of the world and sin that lead to death.
GOD strengthens us when we become one with His Spirit by being born of GOD to help us overcome the ways of the world and sin to make us holy sons of GOD.
This is not faith by alone, it takes our cooperation to follow as the Spirit leads to overcome sin and to grow in grace and strength by resisting evil.

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. It says "shall be saved", that does not mean the one who believes "has been saved".
Christ came into the world to save His people from their sins. A believer that repents is initially saved by being forigven of past sins and a guilty conscience.
The curse of the Mosaic Law was lifted (along with condemnation by the curse) for those under the Law by the grace of GOD for their faith in Jesus Christ.

But even though we are under the grace of GOD and not the curse, and are forgiven of past sins, we have not been saved from the iniquity (unrighteous ways) or our fleshly ways in life until we have been cleansed/purged/purified of it through repentance and the washing of regeneration to overcome the ways of the world and sin to be holy.
It takes effort on our part to grow in grace and wisdom, to overcome sin, and to be mindful of our ways and to follow as the Spirit leads us through the day.

In Christ's love,.......may GOD bless

 

[DutchChristian]

I stand against original sin

Dear Tommy,

What is Pelagianism?

Pelagianism is the belief that original sin did not taint human nature and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without special Divine aid. This is still sometimes called Limited Depravity. Thus, Adam's sin was "to set a bad example" for his progeny, but his actions did not have the other consequences imputed to original sin. Pelagianism views the role of Jesus as "setting a good example" for the rest of humanity (thus counteracting Adam's bad example) as well as providing an atonement for our sins. In short, humanity has full control, and thus full responsibility, for obeying the Gospel in addition to full responsibility for every sin (the latter insisted upon by both proponents and opponents of Pelagianism). According to Pelagian doctrine, because humans are sinners by choice, they are therefore criminals who need the atonement of Jesus Christ. Sinners are not victims, they are criminals who need pardon.

This theological theory is named after Pelagius (AD 354 – AD 420/440), although he denied, at least at some point in his life, many of the doctrines associated with his name.

(Above is an excerpt from wikipedia)

But The Bible Reads:

Romans 5:
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now who was that one man by which the judgement came upon all men to condemnation?

Original sin or fall of man is because Adam fell in trangression by his offence the judgement came upon all men to condemnation.

Only Jesus Christ Who Is GOD Himself and IS PERFECT and The Unspotted Lamb of GOD Could Through His Perfect Obedience to The Father and His Sacrifice on The Cross release us from the DEATH curse and Grant us Life

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

And again i say:

19 For as by one man's disobedience *(Adam) many were made sinners, so by the Obedience of One *(Jesus Christ) shall many be made righteous.

*(emphasis mine)

Remember now:

Romans 3:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

And yes man has a free will to reject God (we are not robots) otherwise our love towards God would not be real genuine love towards Him (if we could only obey as a robot without our free will to love God) and thus a person can reject God by being for example stubbornly being stiffnecked and hard heartened, as man can resist God by going on and on by being stiffnecked and choose to disobey God or to choose their own way instead of Gods Way and so as to choose to rather be their own gods rather to gratify the selfgod they so love and therewith choose to go against The Word of The LORD, and so 5 point Tulip calvinism is error too! BUT so is pelagianism error!

We all need the Cross and The BLOOD of The Lord Jesus, you cannot work your way into heaven it is:

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the Gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Tommy May The LORD God Instruct you, and take HEED to yourself!

as YOU ARE IN DANGER

and i am SEVERELY WARNING you as i have already warned you many times, you better be real careful and flee from your attack on the Bible. If you do not take heed to my warnings given i pray The LORD to Judge between you and me about this very situation very soon as God Sees fit by His Majestic Wisdom and According as He Perfectly Wills: if you do not repent And believe The Gospel!

Sincerely,
Dutch Christian

Again i say:

TAKE HEED TO THE WARNINGS YOU ALREADY ARE IN GREAT DANGER

by His Grace i believe The LORD Is Speaking to you through my mouth and by His Grace i believe The LORD Has a Witness against you: The Word of GOD

 

[DHC]

Romans 3
9 What then? Are we better than they?
not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;
10 as it is written, there is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good, there is not even one.”
13 Their throat is an open grave, with their tongues they keep deceiving,
The poison of asps is under their lips;
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness;
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,17 And the path of peace they have not known.
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.


Mankind has a very serious sinful condition, as the above verses
testify. It would be safer to assume that all have the full potential
to commit the above. In fact human history is the powerful validation
of the above. Full depravity is the only true option.

 

[james1523]

Christ is the Truth and hence any doctrine must agree with Christ's person as the Truth. One important aspect of Christ's person is incarnation. In evaluating the truthfulness of any doctrine it is helpful to consider incarnation as God working in, through, with and by man.

Pelagians believed that mankind could choose God and resist evil without any Grace or help from God. That a sinless life could be lived by human will power alone. That all was required was for man to follow his good nature. This can be seen as "man only".

Augustine on the other hand, believed in God's gift of grace but that mankind had free will to reject or accept this free gift of grace. This is "man and God"

TULIP Calvinism on the other hand believes in grace, but denies that man has free will. This is "God only".

Pelagianism and TULIP Calvinism are at two extremes, with either 'man only' or 'God only'. Augustine is the balanced scriptural view, which agrees with incarnation, involving both "God and man".

In a strong case against Calvinism, the early church Fathers believed that man had free will to choose good or evil:


Justin Martyr said, “Let some suppose, from what has been said by us, that we say that whatever occurs happens by a fatal necessity, because it is foretold as known beforehand, this too we explain. We have learned from the prophets, and we hold it to be true, that punishments, chastisements, and good rewards, are rendered according to the merit of each man’s actions. Now, if this is not so, but all things happen by fate, then neither is anything at all in our own power. For if it is predetermined that this man will be good, and this other man will be evil, neither is the first one meritorious nor the latter man to be blamed. And again, unless the human race has the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions.”
Justin Martyr said, “I have proven in what has been said that those who were foreknown to be unrighteous, whether men or angels, are not made wicked by God’s fault. Rather, each man is what he will appear to be through his own fault.”
Tatian said, “We were not created to die. Rather, we die by our own fault. Our free will has destroyed us. We who were free have become slaves. We have been sold through sin. Nothing evil has been created by God. We ourselves have manifested wickedness. But we, who have manifested it, are able again to reject it.”
Melito said, “There is, therefore, nothing to hinder you from changing your evil manner to life, because you are a free man.”
Theophilus said, “If, on the other hand, he would turn to the things of death, disobeying God, he would himself be the cause of death to himself. For God made man free, and with power of himself.”
Irenaeus said, “But man, being endowed with reason, and in this respect similar to God, having been made free in his will, and with power over himself, is himself his own cause that sometimes he becomes wheat, and sometimes chaff.”
Irenaeus said, “Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good deeds’…And ‘Why call me, Lord, Lord, and do not do the things that I say?’…All such passages demonstrate the independent will of man…For it is in man’s power to disobey God and to forfeit what is good.”
Clement of Alexandria said, “We…have believed and are saved by voluntary choice.”
Tertullian said, “I find, then, that man was constituted free by God. He was master of his own will and power…For a law would not be imposed upon one who did not have it in his power to render that obedience which is due to law. Nor again, would the penalty of death be threatened against sin, if a contempt of the law were impossible to man in the liberty of his will…Man is free, with a will either for obedience or resistance.

 

[B-A-C]

This similar to the classic debate of being a conservative or radical. Most people think this means you want things to stay the same, or you want them to be different.

But in reality the conservative believes man was born evil (into sin) and can learn to be good though an outside influence (i.e. God).
The radical believes man was born good and learns to be evil though an outside influence (i.e Satan).

Most believe sin isn't against someone until they are old enough to reach the age of accountability. Even small children usually know what is right and what is wrong.
(i.e. sharing, hitting, yelling, throwing a tantrum, behaving, etc..) But they rarely are responsible enough to be held accountable for their actions.

Infants may not have sin held against them (even this is debatable). But certainly after a certain age, we will have sin counted against us.

Rom 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:10; as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
Rom 5:12; Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

On a more minor level, not only do Pelagians believe we can resist sin, some go as far as to say man (not God) is who defines what sin is.

Jer 17:9; "The heart is more wicked than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?

 

[judge not]

Satan is responsible for the sins of mankind.

God's plan for humanity is to give us eternal life.

God allows evil in the world as a consequence of free will.

We are being tested to give the chance to resist and overcome the temptation to do evil.
Our reward is eternal life. -James 1:12

Good will eventually triumph over evil with the comfort of God's Holy Spirit.