• Hi Guest!

    You may be aware that "big tech" has been aggressively censoring conservatives on Twitter, Facebook, Google, Instagram, YouTube and other social media platforms. This is tyrannical and suppressive towards Christians and conservatives.

    Please share Talk Jesus community on every platform you have to give conservatives an outlet and safe community to be apart of.

    Support This Community

    Thank You

  • Welcome to Talk Jesus

    A true bible based, Jesus centered online community. Join over 13,000 members today

    Register Log In

How did they know to keep the law; if the law hadnt been given yet?

Member
If the law wasn't given to Moses until the Hebrews were in the wilderness at Mount Sinai; how did Noah know the difference between clean and unclean animals, how did Abraham know to tithe and how did the Hebrews in Egypt know to keep the Sabbath?
 
Loyal
If the law wasn't given to Moses until the Hebrews were in the wilderness at Mount Sinai; how did Noah know the difference between clean and unclean animals, how did Abraham know to tithe and how did the Hebrews in Egypt know to keep the Sabbath?
Romans
12For all who have sinned [j]without the Law will also perish [k]without the Law, and all who have sinned [l]under the Law will be judged [m]by the Law; 13for it is not the hearers [n]of the Law who are [o]righteous before God, but the doers [p]of the Law who will be justified. 14For when Gentiles who do not have [q]the Law [r]instinctively perform the requirements of the Law, these, though not having [s][/s][s]the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the daywhen, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of mankind through Christ Jesus.

The word of God will Judge everyone, on judgment day. This type of Judgment is not understandable to Humans but Just under GOD. Our GOD is "Incomprehensible" by a finite mind. He is not a man or have man's ways, or a brain, a brain is a creation of his. Nothing more than a "CPU" created by a person. So believe this HE has it worked out. I think the best thing we can do, is "workout our own "Salvation". Because at the judgment, I can bet, nobody is not going to be worried about, Johnny, Billy, Mama, daddy, sister or brother:eyes: When we appear before the "Ancient of Days" and your knees start to knocking, echoing throughout the halls of Justice., laws is going to be the last thing in your "Being"! You are going to wonder are you dreaming. And were you went wrong at lighting speed! And if you never Feared GOD, today you will.:eyes:

PS it was a custom among all Nations in Abraham time< that when neigboring "Clans" went to war together, the Clans paid 10 % of the spoils of war to the ruleing Clan of that region. Abraham never paid a "tithe of any thing he own. But He paid a tithe of the "Spoils" of the war of the 5 kings He and the other kings went up to save "Lot" and lot's caln and neigboring clans. and the spoils the 10 % he gave to Melchizedek after Melchizedek fed Abrahams people and troops of 5 kings, then He paid Melchizedek a !0 th of the spoils and gave all the rest to the other 4 or 5 kings that went to war against the "Maraudering Kings "!
what i said is recorded in the bible, But you cannot just take a couple of sentences of a book to come out with this truth.

Tithe of war was custom to all the urrounding nation. Same as Child and human Sacrifices were a custom throughout the regions. Why do you think, the children of Israel was guilty of doing these things as well , The regions for centuries did these practices and many times Israel fell back into old practices. that was before the giving of 600 plus laws given to "Israel" during the Leadership of Moses.

Remember sometimes old ways are hard to break. That is why Jesus came so that we also would receive a "Paraclete", a Advocate to help us to walk in the ways of GOD. Without a Advocate it is inpossible to do so. If anyone thinks they can, without a "Paraclete" most likely is "Pelagian" in their Christian thinging concerning christianity.. Declared by "Biblical termino;ogy". and not me. The dictionary definition and not mine. I have no dictionary of my own making neither have I "Coined" any words.[/s]
 
Active
If the law wasn't given to Moses until the Hebrews were in the wilderness at Mount
Sinai; how did Noah know the difference between clean and unclean animals, how
did Abraham know to tithe and how did the Hebrews in Egypt know to keep the
Sabbath?
A number of God's requirements were known and practiced prior to their
codification in the covenant that Moses' people made with God at Sinai. For
example:

Gen 26:5 . . Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments,
my statutes, and my laws.
_
 
Active
A number of God's requirements were known and practiced prior to their
codification in the covenant that Moses' people made with God at Sinai. For
example:

Gen 26:5 . . Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments,
my statutes, and my laws.
_
That verse does not fit the question....Before the law was given, people did live aware of standards that the law covered....Why? I think it was simply because it made sense...as most laws do...As living Gods way does make sense.
 
Active
That verse does not fit the question
Perhaps you misunderstood DanielVision's requirements back in post No.1

Abraham, Noah, and the Hebrews were not just "people" they were holy people in contact with God whereas ordinary people weren't. DanielVision did not inquire about ordinary people.
_
 
Active
Law was given in the Garden ,
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
 
Active
Law was given in the Garden ,
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Ok What was the law given? Take dominion? We fail there, Be fruitful? Ok. How have we replenished the Earth, with so many starving?
 
Loyal
Wasn't the law given so we would know what sin was? And all the Levitucal laws were given to set the Children of Israel apart from the rest of the people groups?
 
Member
Sacrifices were set up by God after the fall of Adam. Cain killed Abel over sacrifices. Somebody had to teach them. So God taught them and judged Cain and Abel's sacrifice. Therefore they knew the difference between clean and unclean. So they knew what sin was. No civil law was established though. After the flood, Noah sacrificed. The covenant with Noah after the flood, in chapter 9 of Genesis. sets some more rules to live by, like Thou shalt not kill, that's in the Ten commandments. Noah's great, great, great grandson, Nimrod taught against God, but set up civil law by tyranny.
 
Active
Ok...I reread the entire passage/chapter...I'm afraid I still don't see your point...Could you explain it as though I have dementia?
I think the point made by Reba1 is that it was at the time man ate of the tree of knowledge that they became aware of good and evil.

This is true and the answer to the OP.
 
Active
If the law wasn't given to Moses until the Hebrews were in the wilderness at Mount Sinai; how did Noah know the difference between clean and unclean animals, how did Abraham know to tithe and how did the Hebrews in Egypt know to keep the Sabbath?
Mankind was created a little beneath the angels Heb 2:7 and given the knowledge of evil / rebellion from God when they ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge Gen 3:22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.''.

Prior to this event, Adam and Eve only knew what is good.

The laws God gave to Moses need to be understood in context of His plan for the Hebrew race. They were a 'ring-fenced' nation. Even during their time of blessing and protection from God, they did not enforce the law of God on neighbours. Only God's will.

Example. When Jonah went to Nineveh, he did not say ''it is the will of God that you all tithe, attend weekly meetings, appoint elders, stone mortal sinners to death''. No, he said ''it is the will of God that you all repent of your sin as it is grievous and is testing God's patience''.
 
Loyal
@KingJ -- In the Old Testament the Lord God / Lord / God -- all three titles are used - gave Moses instructions for the people to follow. I'm thinking that Adam and Eve -- because of disobeying God -- gained the knowledge of good and evil -- is different than having the Levitical laws to follow. The Levitical laws were given to Moses for the health and well-being of the Children of Israel -- setting them apart from the other people groups around them.

Adam and Eve came into this world in a state of innocents. Becoming aware Of both good and evil came as the result of having taken a bit of the fruit. Now -- a question Might arise -- is the state of innocents the same as knowing only what good was. Because With good Comes evil.

They were told to NOT mingle with the neighboring people. But some of them did Anyway. It was their 'free will' -- their choice.

God would that All would come to Him with a repentant heart -- but He alone knows who will. And those who Do repent -- turn from their wicked ways and To God's way. The Holy Spirit will give new, better desires.
 
Active
Read the whole passage
Ok...I reread the entire passage/chapter...I'm afraid I still don't see your point...Could you explain it as though I have dementia?
I am at fault here. I should have quoted these passages...
Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen_3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
Gen_3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;


We can carry this over to Noah. ETC

Gen 7:5 And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.

Gen_26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.


Although these passages use the word 'command' I an not of the belief that God needs to say this is a command for His Word to be a command. He sovereign. Thinking down the lines of when mom said " go clean your room' she did not need to say this is a commandant or this is law. We tend to lump the word LAW into what was given to Moses , i believe the 'law' is well beyond what was given to Moses.
 
Active
I am at fault here. I should have quoted these passages...
Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen_3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
Gen_3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;


We can carry this over to Noah. ETC

Gen 7:5 And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.

Gen_26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.


Although these passages use the word 'command' I an not of the belief that God needs to say this is a command for His Word to be a command. He sovereign. Thinking down the lines of when mom said " go clean your room' she did not need to say this is a commandant or this is law. We tend to lump the word LAW into what was given to Moses , i believe the 'law' is well beyond what was given to Moses.
Thank you I do see your point.... In the Bible, the word 'Word, Law, command, judgement and the like' are often interchangable, so I can see where you are coming from. You're right, a persons spirit knows, even if his mind does not, the difference between right or wrong. Right from the garden...
 
Loyal
If the law wasn't given to Moses until the Hebrews were in the wilderness at Mount Sinai; how did Noah know the difference between clean and unclean animals, how did Abraham know to tithe and how did the Hebrews in Egypt know to keep the Sabbath?
Moral laws are written on our hearts. We are created in God's image.
Almost everyone is every society knows certain things are wrong. They've never heard of the Bible or the 10 commandments, but yet somehow... they know killing people is wrong, lying is wrong, stealing is wrong.
Sexual sins and idol worship aren't usually considered wrong. by non-Christians.

How did Noah know which animals were clean before the Levitical law was given? Is everything God told Noah recorded in the Bible? Chances are God simply told him.


And all the Levitucal laws were given to set the Children of Israel apart from the rest of the people groups?
Even the Gentiles had to follow these laws under Judaism. (Over 20 verses in the OT say this, and over a dozen in the NT also)
In fact the very first time the law was read in the promised land, Gentiles were there.

Josh 8:30; Then Joshua built an altar to the Lord, the God of Israel, on Mount Ebal,
Josh 8:31; just as Moses the servant of the Lord had commanded the sons of Israel, as it is written in the Book of the Law of Moses, an altar of uncut stones on which no one had wielded an iron tool; and they offered burnt offerings on it to the Lord, and sacrificed peace offerings.
Josh 8:32; And he wrote there on the stones a copy of the Law of Moses, which he had written, in the presence of the sons of Israel.
Josh 8:33; And all Israel with their elders, officers, and their judges were standing on both sides of the ark before the Levitical priests who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord, the stranger as well as the native. Half of them stood in front of Mount Gerizim, and half of them in front of Mount Ebal, just as Moses the servant of the Lord had commanded at first to bless the people of Israel.
Josh 8:34; Then afterward he read all the words of the Law, the blessing and the curse, according to everything that is written in the Book of the Law.
Josh 8:35; There was not a word of all that Moses had commanded which Joshua did not read before all the assembly of Israel with the women, the little ones, and the strangers who were living among them.

Verse 33 says the stranger as well as the native. There were no native Jews in Canaan, The whole book of Joshua is about Joshua and Gideon driving out the Canaanites so the Jews can take the promised land.
So who were these strangers? Also verse 35 says "the strangers living among them". They were all strangers to Canaan, so who were these people, they would have been Gentiles such as Rahab (who was a Canaanite).

When the covenant of circumcision was given to Abraham, he circumcised Ishmael before he circumcised Isaac, even though Ishmael was not a Jew.
Isaac and Jacob were really the first Jews. Yes Abraham was their forefather, but he was also Ishmael's forefather was well.

The 10 commandments always applied to the Gentiles, and all but one of them are repeated in Paul's books to the Gentiles in the New Testament.

[NLT]
Rom 2:12; When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God’s written law. And the Jews, who do have God’s law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it.
Rom 2:13; For merely listening to the law doesn’t make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight.
Rom 2:14; Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it.
Rom 2:15; They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right

1Cor 7:19; Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

One example - the only one I have memorized off the top of my head...

Eph 6:1; Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
Eph 6:2; Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),
Eph 6:3; so that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth.

But I can find the others if necessary.
 
Last edited:
Loyal
Found another in my readings this morning.

Eph 4:28; He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need.
 

Similar threads

Top