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How Can God Send People to Hell Who Haven't Heard About Jesus?

Active

Two main points:
  1. All sin is of equal merit in separation from God.
  2. Not equal in severity of judgment by God.
As best as I can, I try to deal with my most common sins. Anger is still a large problem for me. I would rather be judged for Anger and the fact I did better than being a rapist, abuser, murderer, etc.
 
Loyal

Two main points:
  1. All sin is of equal merit in separation from God.
  2. Not equal in severity of judgment by God.
As best as I can, I try to deal with my most common sins. Anger is still a large problem for me. I would rather be judged for Anger and the fact I did better than being a rapist, abuser, murderer, etc.

Subject heading:- How Can God Send People to 'Hell; Who Haven't Heard About Jesus?

Hello @MedicBravo,

Look up how the middle English word 'Hell' as it was originally intended to be used, as chosen by the translators: and then read the Scriptures with that in mind: ignoring the intrusion of Greek Philosophy and general misuse with which it has been tainted, and you will never ask that question again. :)


Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Active
@complete
People have misunderstood it's use and how different languages use of it do not denote a different place.
The Bible was written in 3 languages: Hebrew (1), Aramaic (2), and Greek (3).
Jesus spoke 1 and 2 and likely by the time Greek was being used the teachers and priests/pastors had to learn Greek OR translate it into what they knew.
Hebrew: sheowl - Abode of the dead. Abode has at least 32 synonyms.
Greek: Hades.
Two names for the same place not "different sections of it or another part" or "a different Hell entirely".
Hel - Norse. Same place.
No human has ever experienced it and lived to describe it. No one gets a trial period in either place.
The English language came from 3 different ones I believe and evolved over time to what we have now. Hel = Hell.
Not sure how long English has been a major and standard language for how long and where but it and the popularity of the Bible gave rise to various English (Old and Modern) languages.
Regardless of each word for it they all denote the same place.
I know there is one such website which translates the Greek to English very well and read from R to L unlike how we read in America. You can click on any word, Hebrew, English, or Greek and get a definition.
There are far more people who care about making sure people get the accurate reading of the Bible than those who seek to corrupt it.
 
Loyal

“How Can God Send People to Hell Who Haven't Heard About Jesus?”​


Well, let us change the word “Hell” to “Eternal Torment”

Answer: easy:

He just do it, because it is, His good pleasure to do so,

That is not a cold answer “That’s Is “GOD”!

For all belongs in Eternal Torment.

That is why “Grace is That much More Glorious to us Forever more.:pensive:

And if you do not see that now, you will.:pensive:

You will.
 
Active
FAQ: Is it possible to be saved/lost without ever hearing about Jesus?

REPLY: According to Luke 12:47-48, everyone will be judged on the basis of what
they knew rather than what they didn't know.

However, in God's estimation the wonders and complexity of the cosmos-- all its
forms of life, matter, and energy --is a strong enough argument to convince people
that everything came about by intelligent design and the handiwork of a higher
power, i.e. a supreme being.

Plus, their own sense of justice-- their conscience --is enough to warn people that
there's coming an ultimate reckoning to make things right, i.e. to reward people for
their good, and to punish them for their evil.

Those particulars are wrapped up in a timeless gospel spoken of in the book of
Revelation called the everlasting gospel. It's been saving and condemning folks
since practically the dawn of Man. There's no talk of Jesus in the everlasting gospel,
nor a resurrection, nor a crucifixion, nor a Holy Ghost, nor a baptism, nor a church,
nor any mention of the Ten Commandments.

The everlasting gospel is a bounce from the very first chapter of Genesis. It's not
only universal, but also very elemental; pretty much all it says is:

1» There's a supreme being.

2» He deserves respect, and he deserves the admiration of a genius without par.

3» There's a frightful reckoning looming on the horizon, and

4» The cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the product of
intelligent design.

The everlasting gospel isn't preached, rather, it's instilled, i.e. intuitive. (Ps 19:1-4,
John 1:4, John 1:9, & Rom 1:18-20)
_
 
Loyal
@complete
People have misunderstood it's use and how different languages use of it do not denote a different place.
The Bible was written in 3 languages: Hebrew (1), Aramaic (2), and Greek (3).
Jesus spoke 1 and 2 and likely by the time Greek was being used the teachers and priests/pastors had to learn Greek OR translate it into what they knew.
Hebrew: sheowl - Abode of the dead. Abode has at least 32 synonyms.
Greek: Hades.
Two names for the same place not "different sections of it or another part" or "a different Hell entirely".
Hel - Norse. Same place.
No human has ever experienced it and lived to describe it. No one gets a trial period in either place.
The English language came from 3 different ones I believe and evolved over time to what we have now. Hel = Hell.
Not sure how long English has been a major and standard language for how long and where but it and the popularity of the Bible gave rise to various English (Old and Modern) languages.
Regardless of each word for it they all denote the same place.
I know there is one such website which translates the Greek to English very well and read from R to L unlike how we read in America. You can click on any word, Hebrew, English, or Greek and get a definition.
There are far more people who care about making sure people get the accurate reading of the Bible than those who seek to corrupt it.

Subject heading:- How Can God Send People to Hell Who Haven't Heard About Jesus?


Hello @MedicBravo, :)

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, I agree the place remains as God depicts it in His word, regardless of human interference subsequently. The root meaning of the middle English word hell, is 'to hide away', and is used in Scripture as 'the place of the dead'. As you will be aware, it is translated from Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Tartaroo. Tartaroo is used only once and refers to the place where the fallen angels (spirits) of Genesis are imprisoned (1 Peter 3:19), whereas Sheol and Hades refer to the grave, which we all occupy eventually. It is Gehenna, used by our Lord, only, which refers to judgement and fire, for it has reference to the end-time fires of destruction, in which the bodies of the dead will be placed.

In each case it is 'the place of the dead': but not all of mankind share the same fate, therefore the same destination. There are those who die by drowning, whose bodies are never retrieved, by fire and by other means, but they all see corruption in one form or another, and where they lie, is their 'place of the dead', for it is 'state', rather than a 'place'.

The traditional interpretation of Hell, as a place of eternal conscious punishment does not exist, for it is not the Hell described in Scripture. The spirit (or breath of life of man) goes back to God Who gave it, and there is therefore no consciousness in death.

Yes, the damage done to this word Hell by it's usage, was done way back in history, and subsequent use and misuse has resulted from it, but the damage done by such has caused despite to the truth of God's word, and untold misery to many unnecessarily. For judgment must come before sentencing, and punishment proceeds from it, if justice is to be done: and God is righteous and therefore will Judge justly, and administer justice as only He can.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Last edited:
Active
@complete
People have misunderstood it's use and how different languages use of it do not denote a different place.
The Bible was written in 3 languages: Hebrew (1), Aramaic (2), and Greek (3).
Jesus spoke 1 and 2 and likely by the time Greek was being used the teachers and priests/pastors had to learn Greek OR translate it into what they knew.
Hebrew: sheowl - Abode of the dead. Abode has at least 32 synonyms.
Greek: Hades.
Two names for the same place not "different sections of it or another part" or "a different Hell entirely".
Hel - Norse. Same place.
No human has ever experienced it and lived to describe it. No one gets a trial period in either place.
The English language came from 3 different ones I believe and evolved over time to what we have now. Hel = Hell.
Not sure how long English has been a major and standard language for how long and where but it and the popularity of the Bible gave rise to various English (Old and Modern) languages.
Regardless of each word for it they all denote the same place.
I know there is one such website which translates the Greek to English very well and read from R to L unlike how we read in America. You can click on any word, Hebrew, English, or Greek and get a definition.
There are far more people who care about making sure people get the accurate reading of the Bible than those who seek to corrupt it.
Actually, sometimes hell in English has been derived from Gehenna which is known as a refuse dump outside of the city of Jerusalem.

But the Lord used Gehenna for a different meaning as for the valley of slaughter or a place of slaughter where the dead are left unburied.

Jeremiah 7:32 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.
33 And the carcases of this people shall be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth; and none shall fray them away.

In some verses where the consequence of "hell" is towards saved believers is to be cut off and sent to hell which is Gehenna a place of slaughter on earth and not the afterlife thus alluding to the castaways at the rapture event.

Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. KJV

Some versions leave out being angry with our brother "without cause". I know the NASB did for why I had thought it was wrong for me to be angry at all but we are allowed to be angry with cause but do not sin.

Ephesians 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27 Neither give place to the devil.

Anyway, this is a warning to saved believers and one of the ways we are to be ready before He comes and that is to forgive others as He has forgiven us or else we will not be sitting at the Marriage Supper table in Heaven.

Matthew 7:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


Since Christ set the example for us on the cross to forgive those who do not ask for forgiveness so that in the eventuality that they should be saved or have repented and are at the Marriage Supper in Heaven, we have forgiven them as He has forgiven them and us.

Luke 23:
33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.


1 Peter 2:19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Matthew 5:
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I admit that I need the Lord's help to forgive my enemies and cast down thoughts of vengeance, but He is helping me and will continue to help me to do this in leaving vengeance to the Lord.

Romans 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

I am at the point that I can do no good towards my enemies and so I just lean on Him in waiting for the Lord to deliver me from this life and I pray it is soon, but I have His peace and He keeps me from being angry so that I will not give place to the devil. I expect to be a victim of identity theft and although I shall see if He will lead me to take any measures to prevent it, He will help me face the loss, but I will not be beholden to the debt. Let the enemy destroy the rest of my life as He is helping me set my heart on the treasures above where no thief nor rust nor moth can mess with.
 
Loyal
'If ye then be risen with Christ,
seek those things which are above,
where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear,
then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.'
(Colossians 3:1-4)

@MedicoBravo, :)

If Christ Jesus our risen Lord appears in glory, before we die, then we will not have to undergo the corruption which death brings, or share the place of the dead (Hell), as those who have gone before us, but will be changed into our resurrection bodies and not have to see death at all.

Praise His Holy Name!

:love:
 
Loyal
Actually, sometimes hell in English has been derived from Gehenna which is known as a refuse dump outside of the city of Jerusalem.

But the Lord used Gehenna for a different meaning as for the valley of slaughter or a place of slaughter where the dead are left unburied.

Jeremiah 7:32-33
'Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord,
that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom,
but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.
And the carcases of this people shall be meat for the fowls of the heaven,
and for the beasts of the earth; and none shall fray them away.'
Hello @GodB4Us,

Thank you for quoting this verse. Yes, it is only the Lord Jesus Christ Himself who uses the word 'Gehenna' as recorded in Scripture.
In some verses where the consequence of "hell" is towards saved believers is to be cut off and sent to hell which is Gehenna a place of slaughter on earth and not the after life thus alluding to the castaways at the rapture event.

Matthew 5:21-22
'Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:
and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council:
but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.' KJV

Some versions leave out being angry with our brother "without cause". I know the NASB did for why I had thought it was wrong for me to be angry at all
but we are allowed to be angry with cause but do not sin.

Ephesians 4:25-27
'Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil.

Anyway, this is a warning to saved believers and one of the ways we are to be ready before He comes and that is to forgive others as He has forgiven us or else we will not be sitting at the Marriage Supper table in Heaven.

Matthew 7:9-15
'After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
'Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil:
For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.'


Since Christ set the example for us on the cross to forgive those who do not ask for forgiveness so that in the eventuality that they should be saved or have repented and are at the Marriage Supper in Heaven, we have forgiven them as He has forgiven them and us.

Luke 23:
33-35
'And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary,
there they crucified Him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided Him, saying,
He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.'

1 Peter 2:19-25
For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently?
but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.'

Matthew 5:
38-48
' Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you,
and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:
for He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I admit that I need the Lord's help to forgive my enemies and cast down thoughts of vengeance, but He is helping me and will continue to help me to do this in leaving vengeance to the Lord.

Romans 12:17-21
Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath:
for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink:
for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Luke 18:7-8

And shall not God avenge His own elect,
which cry day and night unto Him, though He bear long with them?
I tell you that He will avenge them speedily.
Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall He find faith on the earth?

I am at the point that I can do no good towards my enemies and so I just lean on Him in waiting for the Lord to deliver me from this life and I pray it is soon, but I have His peace and He keeps me from being angry so that I will not give place to the devil. I expect to be a victim of identity theft and although I shall see if He will lead me to take any measures to prevent it, He will help me face the loss, but I will not be beholden to the debt. Let the enemy destroy the rest of my life as He is helping me set my heart on the treasures above where no thief nor rust nor moth can mess with.
GodB4Us, you think and express yourself very differently to myself, but at this moment I could hug you. For having read through your post, you come across as a lovely Brother in Christ. I feel the need to consider what you have said more closely and to respond to it in more detail, but if I do so it will derail this thread, but please know that I have learned from you this day. Praise God! - Be encouraged in heart, brother.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Active
Actually, sometimes hell in English has been derived from Gehenna which is known as a refuse dump outside of the city of Jerusalem.

But the Lord used Gehenna for a different meaning as for the valley of slaughter or a place of slaughter where the dead are left unburied.

Jeremiah 7:32 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.
33 And the carcases of this people shall be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth; and none shall fray them away.

In some verses where the consequence of "hell" is towards saved believers is to be cut off and sent to hell which is Gehenna a place of slaughter on earth and not the afterlife thus alluding to the castaways at the rapture event.

Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. KJV

Some versions leave out being angry with our brother "without cause". I know the NASB did for why I had thought it was wrong for me to be angry at all but we are allowed to be angry with cause but do not sin.

Ephesians 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27 Neither give place to the devil.

Anyway, this is a warning to saved believers and one of the ways we are to be ready before He comes and that is to forgive others as He has forgiven us or else we will not be sitting at the Marriage Supper table in Heaven.

Matthew 7:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


Since Christ set the example for us on the cross to forgive those who do not ask for forgiveness so that in the eventuality that they should be saved or have repented and are at the Marriage Supper in Heaven, we have forgiven them as He has forgiven them and us.

Luke 23:
33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.


1 Peter 2:19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Matthew 5:
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I admit that I need the Lord's help to forgive my enemies and cast down thoughts of vengeance, but He is helping me and will continue to help me to do this in leaving vengeance to the Lord.

Romans 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

I am at the point that I can do no good towards my enemies and so I just lean on Him in waiting for the Lord to deliver me from this life and I pray it is soon, but I have His peace and He keeps me from being angry so that I will not give place to the devil. I expect to be a victim of identity theft and although I shall see if He will lead me to take any measures to prevent it, He will help me face the loss, but I will not be beholden to the debt. Let the enemy destroy the rest of my life as He is helping me set my heart on the treasures above where no thief nor rust nor moth can mess with.
Hi @GodB4Us,
Thank you for sharing.
I was a victim of identity theft, where someone used by name and address. I proved it wasn't me and it didn't get the person doing it into trouble either. The way it was resolved. Probably a minor thing as not a great deal of money and the company just wanted money. They ignored the whole situation in the end.
I've been the scapegoat as well of a situation, and justice cannot be done until Jesus is with us face to face. I don't want any vengeance or anything like that. I did before but not now.
I can see you are walking closely with God and I pray He helps you .
God Bless you brother. Take Care.
 
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Two main points:
  1. All sin is of equal merit in separation from God.
  2. Not equal in severity of judgment by God.
As best as I can, I try to deal with my most common sins. Anger is still a large problem for me. I would rather be judged for Anger and the fact I did better than being a rapist, abuser, murderer, etc.
When we know that no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him [er John 6:44 as it is the Father that hides the truth from the prudent and the wise but reveal His Son unto the babes, Matthew 11:25-27 then He may help us to see that our believing in Jesus Christ is a manifested work of God per John 3:18-21

Then we have this promise which comes after this warning about sharing the gospel to those that do not want to hear it and thus are not seeking Him.

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Even though this is an instructions to His disciples above, here is an example set by the Lord in ministry below.

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.
8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas.
9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

It is said that the Father literally drags us unto the Son because our sinful nature repels us from the Son and so the Father can foresee whom will receive Him from those that prefer not to, thus why it is written that all those that seek, shall find because their seeking Him is also a manifested work of the Father.

So the truth I see in scripture is that no one will be in hell that would have believed in Him if they had heard the gospel.

Muslims live in a very strict and isolated community of believers and it is hard for evangelists to reach them but reports are that Muslims are converting to Christianity because they are receiving visions from the Lord for why they are believing in Him to be saved. When you look at Paul as Saul, on the road to Damascus, seeking to persecute Christians and even killing them as he had done to Stephen, you would doubt he was ever seeking God in what he was doing and yet God the Father revealed His Son to him to question his service to God, repent and finally believed in Him to be saved and to serve Him in another way in a ministry of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

So I do not believe there will ever be any one in hell that would have believed in Him if they had heard the gospel as all those that would have sought Him, can only be seeking Him when the Father is drawing them unto the Son.
 
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Hello @GodB4Us,

Thank you for quoting this verse. Yes, it is only the Lord Jesus Christ Himself who uses the word 'Gehenna' as recorded in Scripture.

GodB4Us, you think and express yourself very differently to myself, but at this moment I could hug you. For having read through your post, you come across as a lovely Brother in Christ. I feel the need to consider what you have said more closely and to respond to it in more detail, but if I do so it will derail this thread, but please know that I have learned from you this day. Praise God! - Be encouraged in heart, brother.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
I am glad to see the Lord is ministering even through the likes of me as I give Him the credit and glory for any increase He has done.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

May God bless you & keep you. May He shine His face upon you & give you His peace.
 
Active
Hi @GodB4Us,
Thank you for sharing.
I was a victim of identity theft, where someone used by name and address. I proved it wasn't me and it didn't get the person doing it into trouble either. The way it was resolved. Probably a minor thing as not a great deal of money and the company just wanted money. They ignored the whole situation in the end.
I've been the scapegoat as well of a situation, and justice cannot be done until Jesus is with us face to face. I don't want any vengeance or anything like that. I did before but not now.
I can see you are walking closely with God and I pray He helps you .
God Bless you brother. Take Care.
Thank you for sharing as well.

James 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

May God bless you and keep you. May He shine His face upon you & give you His peace.
 
Loyal

"How Can God Send People to Hell?"​


In the end, there will only be Heaven, and hell (lake of fire) If people reject God and want nothing to do with him then the only place left for them is in the lake of fire. God never sends people to hell they send themselves of their own choosing.
 
Loyal

How Can God Send People to Hell Who Haven't Heard About Jesus?​

All of creation declares the existance of God even his eternal power and Godhead so that no one will have an excuse that they do not believe.

Rom 1:19 For that which is known about God is evident to them and made plain in their inner consciousness because God [Himself] has shown it to them.

Rom 1:20 For ever since the creation of the world His invisible nature and attributes, that is, His eternal power and divinity, have been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through the things that have been made (His handiworks). So [men] are without excuse [altogether without any defense or justification], [Psa 19:1-4] (AMP)

If that was not enough just in case creation itself did not convince them God put his laws into every man woman and child's conscience to know the difference between good and evil.

Rom 2:14 When Gentiles who have not the [divine] Law do instinctively what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, since they do not have the Law.

Rom 2:15 They show that the essential requirements of the Law are written in their hearts and are operating there, with which their consciences (sense of right and wrong) also bear witness; and their [moral] decisions (their arguments of reason, their condemning or approving thoughts) will accuse or perhaps defend and excuse [them] (AMP)

And if that is not enough we have the Gospel which confirms to every man what they already know as truth within themselves, because God has shown it to them.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

The problem is not that people dont know, it is they do know but refuse to believe what that alredy know as true.

Light has come but men "love" darkness more than "light" because their deeds are evil and they know it!
 
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People spared the wrath of God apart from Jesus' gospel won't qualify for all the
benefits associated with the "my church" spoken of by Matt 16:18, but I think
they'll still have it pretty good in whatever circumstances they find themselves.

Ps 16:11 . . In Your presence is fullness of joy; in Your right hand there are
endless pleasures.
_
 
Active
@complete
Hell, or whatever name gets your rocks off, is a place and there is suffering.

  1. Matt 5:22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.
  2. Matt 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
  3. Matt 5:22, 29-30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
  4. Mat 10:28 “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
  5. Mat 11:23 And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to hell; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
  6. Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
  7. Mat 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.
  8. Mat 23:15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
  9. Mat 23:33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?

Mark: (Jesus)
  1. Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched.
  2. Mark 9:45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched.
  3. Mark 9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.
Matthew:
  • Matt 7:13 Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
  • Matt 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
  • Mat 13:40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
  • Mat 13:42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
  • Mat 13:50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
  • Mat 18:8 If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire.
  • Mat 22:13 Then the king said to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
  • Mat 25:30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
  • Mat 25:41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
  • Mark 9:44, 46, 48 where Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.
  • Mark 12:40 who devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. These will receive greater condemnation.
  • Luke 13:3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.
  • Luke 16:24 Then he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
  • John 5:29 and come forth; those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
  • John 15:6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
We know the Nazis buried Jews and others in mass graves, allowed people to slowly die, and those camps were "Hell on Earth".
The fault of many Christians is putting modernism on a time and culture that don't exist anymore.
 
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@GodB4Us
At the time, if Gehenna was the worst place in all the known world then it would be a great analogy for Hell. They could've used every evil, horrible adjective to describe it and the effectiveness of what Hell could be would still be lost on everyone.
If you could experience Hell, everything you know would change. Call me crazy but I don't want a trial period in either place.
I don't think people will see and experience the same thing. It's a supernatural place and how things work are beyond fail human minds. I don't want to find out.
Since there is record of that dump then it's existence would have frightened many. Visual experiences will affect a person more than words on paper.
 
Loyal
When we know that no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him [er John 6:44 as it is the Father that hides the truth from the prudent and the wise but reveal His Son unto the babes, Matthew 11:25-27 then He may help us to see that our believing in Jesus Christ is a manifested work of God per John 3:18-21

Then we have this promise which comes after this warning about sharing the gospel to those that do not want to hear it and thus are not seeking Him.

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Even though this is an instructions to His disciples above, here is an example set by the Lord in ministry below.

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.
8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas.
9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

It is said that the Father literally drags us unto the Son because our sinful nature repels us from the Son and so the Father can foresee whom will receive Him from those that prefer not to, thus why it is written that all those that seek, shall find because their seeking Him is also a manifested work of the Father.

So the truth I see in scripture is that no one will be in hell that would have believed in Him if they had heard the gospel.

Muslims live in a very strict and isolated community of believers and it is hard for evangelists to reach them but reports are that Muslims are converting to Christianity because they are receiving visions from the Lord for why they are believing in Him to be saved. When you look at Paul as Saul, on the road to Damascus, seeking to persecute Christians and even killing them as he had done to Stephen, you would doubt he was ever seeking God in what he was doing and yet God the Father revealed His Son to him to question his service to God, repent and finally believed in Him to be saved and to serve Him in another way in a ministry of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

So I do not believe there will ever be any one in hell that would have believed in Him if they had heard the gospel as all those that would have sought Him, can only be seeking Him when the Father is drawing them unto the Son.
Hello @GodB4Us,

If, as I believe to be true, Hell indeed means, 'to hide away,' as in the grave: the grave is 'gravedom', or, 'the place of the death;' then it is a fact that all will go there, for all go to some form of gravedom, even if cremated. The only difference between the believing dead and the unbelieving, is that in God's eyes they are merely sleeping, because of the hope of eternal life that He has given to them, for on a day of His choosing we will be raised to life eternal. Whereas the unbelieving dead, were dead even while thy lived, for they had no eternal hope, and they will be raised to judgement. For the believer there is no condemnation, so they will pass from death into life.

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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