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In my life I've thought of alot messed up thing's, but it has never entered my mind to torture my own child just because she doesn't want to know me. But I'm to believe that your all loving God can allow the torture of his own children, simply because they don't decide to know him.

As much as I know about my daughter, she does not believe in your God. So if she died today not knowing him, where do you think she'll end up

Hell?

She is also in a sexual relationship outside of marriage, so if she died suddenly, where do you think your God will send her

Hell?

If I, a fallen sinner, who's heart is desperately wicked can't think about my own child roasting in hell, how can my own spiritual father think any worse?

How can he?
 
Active
You know that we serve a God who lay His life down for us. Who tells us to love our enemies Matt 5:44. Yet you assume He is now a wicked tyrant on par with the devil for all eternity? God does not torture. Has never tortured His enemy. Let's not make terrible assumptions. We will agree with God's punishment. The terrible thing about hell will be the eternal separation. Living with yourself and your free will choice.

People in hell weep and gnash their teeth because they look up and see that they are cast out Luke 13:28.

People go to hell because they don't want to be with God. God makes a home for them. The verdict is: People reject Jesus because they love the darkness / wickedness John 3:19.

There will not be a sweet girl in hell. All innocent and sweet children will be in heaven to be tested another day Rev 20:10. Or the sweet daughter that hates what is evil Rom 12:9 will be with God. Because she has a heart after God's.
 
Active
If I, a fallen sinner, who's heart is desperately wicked can't think about my own child roasting in hell, how can my own spiritual father think any worse?
This is exactly the kind of reasoning God wants from us Isa 1:18. We have to understand that God wants us to agree with Him. Of course we just need to ensure the 'us' is a sane thinking person who also hates what is evil and wicked.

We have to grasp that we are not His children. Humans are a creation. We only become His children when we are grafted in to His family by the blood Jesus shed on the cross. Then, God will 'tolerate' us for eternity. Yes.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.
 
Loyal
If you don't obey God, He doesn't really consider you His child.

He created you. Then He gave you a choice to follow whatever you want.
Does it make Him evil that He gave you a choice? Maybe it would be more evil if He didn't.

Of course in the old testament, parents stoned disobedient children.

All this may seems a little extreme, but consider..... (true story)

A house with several children in it from 5 to 18. The oldest is giving drugs to the younger
ones and trying to get them to try them.

I never stopped loving the oldest one. I love him to this day. But he wasn't allowed to live in my house
anymore. This is just one example. But it could be anything.

======================================================================================

Also I think we as a whole, have really forgotten what love is. What to love someone with all your
heart and soul and strength is really like. We say we love our spouses or girlfriends/boyfriends like that,
but then when they leave us... it's like... oh well... better luck next time.

In Italy up until a generation or so ago... if you caught your spouse in bed with someone else and shot
them "in the heat of the moment". It was like a$100 fine and 3 days in jail. People understood what it
was to really love someone. To really be "one-flesh" with someone.

In the old days, people wanted to marry virgins... not someone who was "defiled"... yes I said defiled.
Now it's one thing to marry them already as "un-chaste".
It's another thing for them to cheat on you after you marry them. And yet many "Christians" do this to
God every single day.

You think He should be angry at offended at them? Then you don't really know what love is.

Rom 2:5; But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

The phrase "wrath of God" is in the Bible over 150 times. In the new testament over 30 times.
 
Loyal
How did our hearts get so hard and cynical? These shallow temporary relationships are everywhere.
Even in families now. People get married and divorced like casting off old clothes and buying new ones.

We text each other on cell phones when we are in the same room with people, just so we don't have to
deal with their hearts on a personal level. Just so we don't have to look in their eyes and feel the pain.

For some reason people have the idea God "loves to roast people". Maybe He likes the smell of BBQ?
What they don't think of is what and who they are betraying and how personally He takes it.
If God "is love". How much does it hurt Him when people reject Him?

When people got divorced in "the old days". People cried and mourned for weeks, months... even years. They usually didn't date anyone else for years if at all. Their hearts were really broken.

Now when people get divorced... they are dating and sleeping with people the next week.
It's almost like they go in with the attitude, if this doesn't work there's always a "plan B".

God doesn't want us to have a plan B. He is the "only" plan.

Matt 24:12; "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.
Matt 24:13; "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
 
Member
You know that we serve a God who lay His life down for us. Who tells us to love our enemies Matt 5:44. Yet you assume He is now a wicked tyrant on par with the devil for all eternity? God does not torture. Has never tortured His enemy. Let's not make terrible assumptions. We will agree with God's punishment. The terrible thing about hell will be the eternal separation. Living with yourself and your free will choice.

People in hell weep and gnash their teeth because they look up and see that they are cast out Luke 13:28.

People go to hell because they don't want to be with God. God makes a home for them. The verdict is: People reject Jesus because they love the darkness / wickedness John 3:19.

There will not be a sweet girl in hell. All innocent and sweet children will be in heaven to be tested another day Rev 20:10. Or the sweet daughter that hates what is evil Rom 12:9 will be with God. Because she has a heart after God's.
I can't even fathom Hitler in hell, nor Charles Manson, Nor Ted Bundy.
 
Member
If you don't obey God, He doesn't really consider you His child.

He created you. Then He gave you a choice to follow whatever you want.
Does it make Him evil that He gave you a choice? Maybe it would be more evil if He didn't.

Of course in the old testament, parents stoned disobedient children.

All this may seems a little extreme, but consider..... (true story)

A house with several children in it from 5 to 18. The oldest is giving drugs to the younger
ones and trying to get them to try them.

I never stopped loving the oldest one. I love him to this day. But he wasn't allowed to live in my house
anymore. This is just one example. But it could be anything.

======================================================================================

Also I think we as a whole, have really forgotten what love is. What to love someone with all your
heart and soul and strength is really like. We say we love our spouses or girlfriends/boyfriends like that,
but then when they leave us... it's like... oh well... better luck next time.

In Italy up until a generation or so ago... if you caught your spouse in bed with someone else and shot
them "in the heat of the moment". It was like a$100 fine and 3 days in jail. People understood what it
was to really love someone. To really be "one-flesh" with someone.

In the old days, people wanted to marry virgins... not someone who was "defiled"... yes I said defiled.
Now it's one thing to marry them already as "un-chaste".
It's another thing for them to cheat on you after you marry them. And yet many "Christians" do this to
God every single day.

You think He should be angry at offended at them? Then you don't really know what love is.

Rom 2:5; But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

The phrase "wrath of God" is in the Bible over 150 times. In the new testament over 30 times.
Yet that person is still your child, I don't think you can deny that. But could you torture your own child for being a druggy?
 
Active
In my life I've thought of alot messed up thing's, but it has never entered my mind to torture my own child just because she doesn't want to know me. But I'm to believe that your all loving God can allow the torture of his own children, simply because they don't decide to know him.

As much as I know about my daughter, she does not believe in your God. So if she died today not knowing him, where do you think she'll end up

Hell?

She is also in a sexual relationship outside of marriage, so if she died suddenly, where do you think your God will send her

Hell?

If I, a fallen sinner, who's heart is desperately wicked can't think about my own child roasting in hell, how can my own spiritual father think any worse?

How can he?
If you and your daughter don't want to know God, or obey Him, you won't be forced to.
It does seem that you are aware of the end result of that line of action though.
Are you unaware of the promised reward for doing as He wishes?
 
Loyal
Yet that person is still your child, I don't think you can deny that. But could you torture your own child for being a druggy?
I realize the person asking the question isn't on TJ anymore.
But I will answer.

Yes, he is still my child, and yes I love him. The interesting thing about that story is... He is a youth pastor today.
But if it meant sending the one disobedient to prison to save the three that were obedient... I would do it. ( I did do it ).
It hurt me as much or more than it hurt him. But we are great friends today.
 
Active
I can't even fathom Hitler in hell, nor Charles Manson, Nor Ted Bundy.
Look, any sane thinking Christian will want to rehabilitate these guys. Separate them with Geneva convention type treatment until they are fully rehabilitated.

So, on that front I completely agree with you.

But we need to try and grasp something about God. God '''knows''' the depths of all our hearts and minds Jer 17:9-10.

God sees men in sin cross a line. A line which tells Him that they are beyond rehabilitation. Their ''full'' hearts desire is to love what is wicked and evil more then hate it.

Now, to us, we can assume with a fair degree of accuracy that all those continuing in mortal / grievous type sins are close to that point of no return. The kind of sins for example that warranted the death penalty among the Jews in the OT.

We can also see that the devil has been at wickedness everyday, from the day he was cast out of heaven. IE According to scripture, it seems that God did not make a mistake in casting him out. He has not wanted to repent and make amends. Why doesn't he decide to just ''stop'' doing what is wicked? He doesn't. He remains hardhearted and arrogant. Full of himself. No space for humility and selflessness. I am not insinuating there is no good in him. Just it is such a fraction with his vanity and hatred of righteousness. He is consumed with accusing us as a wicked failed creation before God. He is consumed with himself and his power. God getting through to him became impossible.

God does not make mistakes. When He puts someone in hell, it is because they do not want to hate what is wicked. They want to love it. Now all wickedness stems from self pride. I will do what I want. Now, no offence, this is exactly the kind of speech I here from atheists when I visit their sites.

Please try and see vanity and wickedness for what it is. It causes us to be blind to what is good and pure. God is in that perfect state of righteousness. He is not the least bit blind.
 
Loyal
This is exactly the kind of reasoning God wants from us Isa 1:18. We have to understand that God wants us to agree with Him. Of course we just need to ensure the 'us' is a sane thinking person who also hates what is evil and wicked.

We have to grasp that we are not His children. Humans are a creation. We only become His children when we are grafted in to His family by the blood Jesus shed on the cross. Then, God will 'tolerate' us for eternity. Yes.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.
Of course we are His children if we are Christians by adoption...and thats a tighter bond than being born his kids. Good point KingJ
 
Loyal
Yet that person is still your child, I don't think you can deny that. But could you torture your own child for being a druggy?
Dear lady. God does not send ANYBODY to hell....If a person rejects God where is he supposed to go? There is with God or with Satan and his hell.....Life or death. Light or darkness....YOU choose....Will you live life with LIFE Himself or will you follow Satan to his lake of fire. YOU choose... God already said it. Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live

Choose life or death....choose blessing or cursing Then He made is easy...He even tells us the right choice..."Choose life!"

Its so simple that you would need help to make a mistake....Hmmmm Come to think of it....The way you're talking your help is close by you.
 
Moderator
Staff Member
@bandito @KingJ @B-A-C @At Peace

Just wanted to let you brothers know. Member cmd73 has been banned so won't be responding.
However, continuing to pray for him, is something we might want to not stop doing.
The hope being that one day he may come/return to our Lord to know His Grace & Mercy.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
<><
 
Loyal
@bandito @KingJ @B-A-C @At Peace

Just wanted to let you brothers know. Member cmd73 has been banned so won't be responding.
However, continuing to pray for him, is something we might want to not stop doing.
The hope being that one day he may come/return to our Lord to know His Grace & Mercy.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
<><
Thank you for letting us know
 
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