Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

Historical Scriptural, proof of the Eternal TWO.

wordsponge

Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
52
<o:p>
The TWO was common knowledge among the Christians.
+
John.1
[1] In the beginning the Word existed
and the Word was with GOD, and the Word was God.
[2] The same (God) was in the beginning with GOD.
+
Moses alone:
A Token unto Moses:
The Father revealed the Son to Moses.
Later the Father revealed the Son to Peter. (Matt. 16:17)

Exod.3
[11] Moses said to GOD, (#1 the Father, the Highest)
Who am I, that I could go unto Pharaoh,
and that I could bring forth (liberate)
the children of Israel out of Egypt?
[12] And GOD said,
I will certainly be with you
and this shall be a token to you,
that I have sent you:
When you have brought forth the people out of Egypt
You shall serve God (#2 the Son, the God of Israel),
upon this mountain.
+
[15] And GOD said moreover to Moses
This you shall say to the children of Israel:
The LORD GOD of your (3 fore) fathers,
the GOD of Abraham (the Most High), the GOD of Isaac,
and the GOD of Jacob,
has sent me to you.
This is My Nam
Forever, (We can pray to GOD using that name. See Peter Acts 3 :13)
and this is my memorial to all generations.

Exod.19
[24] And the LORD (#1) said unto him, (Moses)
Away, get down,
and you and Aaron (the High Priest), shall come up with you
but do not let the (assistant) Priests and the people break through,
to come up unto the LORD (#2),
lest he breaks forth upon them.

Moses and the Nobles saw two Gods.

Exod.24
[1] The LORD (#2 = Jesus, the God of Israel) said to Moses:
You, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu
and seventy (70) of the Elders of Israel,
come up to the LORD (#1 the Most High, the Father),
and worship (delight) afar off.
[2] Moses alone shall come near the LORD (#1).
The others shall not come near
Nor shall the (common) people go up with him.
*
[9] Then Moses,
Aaron, Nadab, Abihu >> (whom Jesus called by their name)
and seventy (70) of the Elders of Israel, went up.
[10] They >> saw (Jesus) the God of (the nation) Israel (#2)
and under his feet, there was like a paved work of a sapphire stone,
and like it was the body of heaven in his clearness.
[11] and upon the nobles of the children of Israel he (Jesus)
laid not his hand:
they (Moses and company)
>> also saw GOD (#1 the Father, the Highest who is above all.)
and they ate and drank (dined)


They are aware about the TWO.
David and the Prophets also wrote about TWO.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Why did Moses, the Servant of the Most High, NOT tell Israel?

Deut.6
[4] Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD (of the TWO = the Son)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Moses sees TWO again.
Exod.34
[5] The LORD (Jesus #2) descended in the cloud,
and stood there with Moses,
and (the LORD #2)
proclaimed the name (the character)
of the LORD >> (the Father #1)
[6] and the LORD (# 2, Jesus)
passed by before Moses and proclaimed:
The LORD (#1)
The Lord GOD (the Most High #1)
merciful and gracious,
longsuffering
and abundant in goodness and truth,
[7] Keeping mercy for thousands,
forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin,
and who will by no means,
clear the (premeditated) guilty.
Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children
and upon the children's children,
to the third and to the fourth generation (under the first Covenant)
[8] and Moses made haste
and >> bowed his head toward the earth
and he worshipped. (the TWO)
[9] Moses said:
If I have found grace in your sight now, O LORD,(the Father)
let my Lord, I pray you, go among us
for it is a stiff necked people,
and pardon our iniquity and our sin,
and take us for
your inheritance >> (Israel belonged to the Father who placed his Son over them.)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Abraham and his TWO.

Gen.12
[1] Now the LORD (GOD, the Most High, the Father,)
had said to Abram,
Get (separate) out of your country,
and from your kindred and from your father's house,
unto a land (Canaan) that I will show you:
[2] And I (the Father)
will make of you a great nation (of Israel)
and I will bless you (personally),
and I will make your name (reputation) great (famous)
and you (Abraham) shall be a blessing.
[3] And I will bless the people who bless you (Abraham only),
and curse him who curses you (Abraham only):
and in you,
all of the families of the earth be blessed.
[4] So Abram departed,
as the LORD (GOD) had said to him and Lot went with him.
Abram was seventy and five (75) years old
when he departed out of Haran.
[5] And Abram took Sarai his wife and Lot his brother's son,
and al ofl their substance that they had gathered,
and the souls that they had gotten in Haran;
and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan;
and into the land of Canaan they came.

Abraham and the Word = the Son.
Gen.15
[1] After these things the Word of the LORD (= Jesus),
came in a vision to Abram saying to him:
Do not fear Abram.
I (Jesus) am your(personal) shield (from GOD),
and your (personal) exceedingly great
reward (from GOD. Jesus is a Gift to us also)
[2] And Abram said, Lord GOD (to Jesus)
what will you (personally) give me, seeing that I go childless,
and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
[3] and Abram said,
Behold, to me you (Jesus the Word) have given no seed:
and, lo, one born in my house is my heir.
*
[4] and, behold,
the Word of the LORD came to him saying:
This (He) shall not be your heir;
but he (Isaac a promised child)
who shall come forth out of your own bowels shall be your heir.
[5] and he (Jesus) brought him (Abraham) forth abroad, and said,
Look now toward heaven and tell the stars
if you be able to number them:
and he (Jesus) promised him: So shall your seed be.
*
[6] And he (Abraham) believed in (trusted) the LORD (Jesus)
and he (Jesus) counted it to him for righteousness.

Gen.14
[22] And Abram said to the king of Sodom:
I have lifted up my hand unto the LORD,
the Most High GOD, (the Father #1)
the possessor (owner) of heaven and earth,
[23] That I will not take,
from a thread even to a shoe latchet,
and that I will not take any thing that is yours,
lest you should say:
I have made Abram rich.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jacob and his TWO.

Deut.33
[27] The eternal GOD (the Everlasting GOD #1) is your refuge,
and underneath are the Everlasting Arms (Jesus #2)
and he (the Arm) shall thrust out the enemy from before you
and he shall say: Destroy them.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

King David and his TWO.

Pss.50
[14] Offer thanksgiving to GOD (the Father #1)
and pay your vows to the Most High (the Father #1)
[15] and call upon me (the Son #2), in the day of trouble
and I (the Arm/ Hand of GOD, the Son) will save you
and you shall glorify me (the Son = the God of Israel)


Pss.110
[1] The LORD (#1, the GOD of Abraham)
said to my LORD (the God of Israel #2, Jesus the Son):
Sit at my right hand,
until I make your enemies (from Israel and then from the Gentiles),
your footstool.

Pss.45
[6] Your throne, O God (of Israel #2, Jesus),
exists forever and ever.
The scepter (symbol) of your kingdom
is a right (for all people) scepter.
[7] You love righteousness, (love and good deeds among the Israelites),
and you hated wickedness (among them).
Therefore GOD (#1), your GOD (and your Father)
has anointed you with the Oil of Gladness (the Holy Spirit)
above your fellows (the Apostles)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Prophet Isaiah and his TWO.

Isa.40
[10] Behold, the Lord GOD (the Father #1),
will come (to Israel),
with (his) Strong Hand (= Jesus #2, in one body),
and his Arm (Jesus #2, the Mighty Arm of GOD) shall rule for him.
Behold, his reward is with him (his Arm)
and his work before him (his Arm).

Isaiah prayed to the Arm = the Son.
Isa.5
[9] Awake, awake,
put on strength, O (Jesus #2, the),
Arm of the LORD.
Awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old.
Aren’t you it (he) who cut Rahab,
and wounded the dragon?
[10] Aren’t you it (he) who dried the sea,
the waters of the great deep
who had (miraculously) made the depths of the sea,
(into) a way,
for the ransomed to pass over?

The Prophet Isaiah and his THREE.

Isa.48
[16] Come near to me (for a secret),
Hear this.
I (Jesus, the God of Israel),
have not spoken secretly from the beginning.
From the time that it (Israel) was (made),
I (#2) am there
and now the LORD GOD (the Father #1),
has sent me (#2) and his Spirit (#3)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Zechariah and his TWO.

Zech.13
[7] Awake, O sword,
against my shepherd (Jesus, #2),
and against the man who is my fellow (=ONE with me),
saith the LORD (GOD) of hosts (#1 the Father)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Apostles and their TWO.

They prayed to TWO:
Acts.1
Prayer to the Son
Jesus chooses equips and paces
[24] And they prayed and said:
You LORD (Jesus the HEAD),
who knows the hearts of all men,
show which of these two you (the Head, the God of Israel)
have chosen,
[25] so that he may take part
of this Ministry (of Grace) and Apostleship,
from which Judas by transgression fell,
so that he might go to his own place.
[26] And they gave forth their lots (votes)
and the lot fell upon Matthias;
and he was numbered with the eleven Apostles.

Acts.4
Prayer to the Father.
They lifted up their voice to GOD with one accord,
and said:
LORD (the Most High),
you are GOD who (by Jesus).
have >> made (not created) <<
the heaven (s) and the earth and the sea
and every single thing that exist in them
[25] who by the mouth
of your servant David (who served the Mighty God),
has said:
“Why did the heathen (Gentiles) rage
and the people (of Israel) imagine vain (impossible) things?
[26] The (Gentile) kings of the earth rose up
and the (Jewish) rulers were gathered together (united),
against the Lord (GOD)
and against his Christ (Jesus, the Mighty God)
[27] For truly against your Holy Child /Son Jesus,
whom you have anointed (with your Holy Spirit),
both Herod and Pontius Pilate with the Gentile (faction)
and the People of (the nation of) Israel,
were gathered together (united),
[28] in order to do,
whatever your counsel (your plan/ pleasure)
and your Hand (= Jesus)
had previously planned
to be done. (John.18:37; Matt.26:53 – 54)
[29] and now, LORD (the Most High),
behold the threatening (of the heretic Rulers)
and grant to (allow) your servants (your Arms),
that with all boldness (fearlessly),
they may speak your (effective spirit filled) Word,
[30] by stretching forth your Hand (Jesus) to heal
and (permit) that signs and wonders may be done
by (invoking) the name (power) of your Holy Child Jesus.
[31] When they had finished prayed,
the place (the building),
where they were assembled together, was shaken
and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost
and they spoke the Word of GOD with (great) boldness.


The Apostles knew TWO and taught about TWO.

John.14
[1] Do not let your heart be troubled
You (children of the Prophets),
believe in GOD (the Father),
believe also
in me (the incarnated = the Mighty God of Israel = the Son of GOD)

2Pet.1
[2] Grace and peace be multiplied (X2)
to you (correctly baptized and anointed Christians)
through knowledge of GOD (#1; the Most High, the GOD of Abraham)
and (knowledge) of Jesus our (Israelite
LORD, (#2; the Mighty God of Israel)

John.14
[7] If you had known me (the God of Israel)
then you would have known my Father (the GOD of Abraham) also
and from henceforth you know him, (who is like the righteous Jesus)
and have seen (his similitude) him.

The Apostles received from the TWO.

1Pet.1
[2] Elect according to the foreknowledge of GOD the Father,
through sanctification, of (by) the Spirit,
unto obedience (to the faith)
and the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ (the righteous God)
Grace and peace to you, be multiplied (X2)
[3] Blessed be the GOD and Father (#1)
of our (Israelite) LORD Jesus Christ (the Mighty God #2)
who according to his liberal mercy has begotten us again
to a lively(energizing) hope,
by the resurrection of Jesus Christ (the Mighty God),
from the dead…


The Father called to his Son.
The Son gives Gifts, makes the New man,
and places in the Church.

Paul gave thanks to Jesus, the Son (#2)

1Tim.1
[12] And I thank Christ Jesus our (Israelite) LORD, (the Mighty God)
who has enabled me,
for he counted me faithful,
putting me into the (exclusive) ministry
[13] who before a blasphemer, a persecutor
and injurious (to the Christians)
but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
[14] And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant,
with faith (in BOTH) and love (for all) that is in Christ Jesus.

Paul gives thanks to the Father (#1)

1Cor.1
[3] Grace and peace,
to you,
from GOD our Father
and from the LORD Jesus Christ (the Heavenly TWO)
[4] I always thank my GOD on your behalf,
for the grace of/ from GOD that is given you by Jesus Christ
[5] that in all matters you are enriched by him (Jesus),
in all utterance
and in all knowledge (from above)
[6] Even as the Testimony about Christ (that he is the God of Israel),
was confirmed in you:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jesus and his TWO.

John.10
[29] My Father (#1 the Most High),
who gave them (my sheep) to me (#2), is greater than all
and no man is able to pluck them out out
my Father's hand. (Jesus is the HAND of GOD)

John.14
[28] You have heard me say to you:
I go away and return unto you (Apostles).
If you loved me, then you would rejoice,
because I said:
I go to the Father,
for my Father (#1; the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob)
is greater than I. (#2; the Mighty God of Israel)

John.8
[15] You (Jews) judge after the flesh (human appearance).
I judge no man.
[16] And yet if I judge, my judgment is true (accurate),
for I (the incarnated God of Israel) am not alone
but I and the (invisible and all wise) Father who sent me.
[17] It is also written in your law,
that the testimony of two men is true.
[18] I (#2) am one who bear witness of/ about myself,
and the Father (#1),
who sent me,
bears witness of me (through the unheard of miracles)

John.5
[24] Verily, verily, I (#2) say to you,
He who hears (obeys) my word
and believes on him (#1) who sent me,
has everlasting life
and shall not come into condemnation (by GOD)
but is/ has passed from death (due to sin) to life.

John.14
[7] If you (Apostles) had known me, (the God of Israel)
then you would have known (by revelation) my Father (#1) also
and from henceforth you know him (through his image/similitude)
and you have seen him (through his image/similitude).

John.6
[38] For I (the God of Israel, #2),
came down from heaven (where I live)
not to do my own will,
but to do the will of him (#1; the GOD of Abraham)
who has sent me.

John.15
[23] He (the antichrist Israelite) who hates me,
hates my Father (the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) also.

Consistency is lacking in the translation of the Almighty (#2)
and LORD GOD Almighty or just GOD Almighty. (#1)

The Translators had ONE God in mind.

Rev.1
[8] I am Alpha and Omega,
the beginning and the ending,
saith the LORD (Jesus),
who is and who was and who is to come,
the Almighty (the immortal Son)

Rev.4
[8] And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him;
and they were full of eyes within:
and they rest not day and night saying:
Holy, holy, holy, LORD GOD Almighty, (#1)
who was, and is, and is to come (the Everlasting GOD)

Rev.21
[22] And I saw no Temple in there
for the LORD GOD Almighty (#1)
and the Lamb (#2) are the Temple of it.

1 Pet.1
[21] by
Jesus (#2; the incarnated God of Israel) teaching,
you (converts) believe in GOD (#1 the Most High)
who raised him up from the dead,
and who gave him glory (very high Dignity)
so that your faith and hope might be in GOD (also)

The Spirit lives and works
and is in us, the Sheep.

2 Cor.13
[14] The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, (the incarnated God of Israel)
and the love of GOD (the Highest)
and the communion of the Holy Spirit,
be with you all. Amen.

Jesus reveals …
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Why wasn’t, disrespectful and rebellious, Israel told by Moses ??

Deut.6
[4] Hear, O (nation of) Israel.
The LORD our (Israelite) God is one LORD:

Moses is not speaking to ALL nations or to the Church.
Jesus, the HEAD of the Church, speaks to the Church,
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
</o:p>
 
GOD's people, who emphasized the TWO,
were killed and called heretics.
To this day they are called heretics.
The people who did the killing are legitimized to this day?

Did Jesus teach the children of the Highest, to kill anyone for any reason ???
+++
Luke.6
[35] ... love your enemies (and not kill them)
and do good (to all others)
and lend, hoping for nothing again;
and your reward shall be great,
and you shall be the Children of the Highest
+
for he is kind to the unthankful and to the evil.

[36] Therefore be merciful (and not murderous), like your Father also is merciful.
 
Last edited:
Hi @wordsponge

Can you please explain what this thread is about and your goal?
 
Last edited:
Are you willing to show common courtesy and reply at least once to my two emails?

I have told you, twice,
that I have heard from the LORD and that I wanted to give the information to you
to share with your people.
You never replied...

What is that "all about.?"

John.10
[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

The LORD judge between us...
 
Last edited:
Are you willing to show common courtesy and reply at least once to my two emails?

I have told you, twice,
that I have heard from the LORD and that I wanted to give the information to you
to share with your people.
You never replied...

What is that "all about.?"

John.10
[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

The LORD judge between us...


Brother Chad asked you a very relevant question and you have responded to him very impolitely
Your threads and post are very cryptic and unclear.

Please take note of what Chad had said

And remember this forum is for sharing the word of the Lord, the Bible and the glorious message of His gospel.
 
Hello wordsponge.

An interesting series of verses you posted though far too long for most people to read. May I
suggest smaller posts in future wordsponge, people will not read a post that is too long.

Have you read the vision that Ezekial was given wordsponge?

Ezekial 1
1 Now it came about in the thirtieth year, on the fifth day of the fourth month, while I was by
the river Chebar among the exiles, the heavens were opened and I saw visions of God.

Ezekial witnessed the opening of the heavens and saw visions of God, wordsponge. We are
fortunate that God gave this vision to Ezekial, for in this vision we get to see the true God.

Let us read the rest of the vision that Ezekial was given to identify whom Ezekial is looking at.

Ezekiel 1
26 Now above the expanse that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne,
like lapis lazuli in appearance; and on that which resembled a throne, high up, was a figure with
the appearance of a man. 27 Then I noticed from the appearance of His loins and upward something
like glowing metal that looked like fire all around within it, and from the appearance of His loins and
downward I saw something like fire; and there was a radiance around Him. 28 As the appearance of the
rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the surrounding radiance. Such was the
appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord.

The one in the visions above is Jesus Christ, he has the 'appearance of a man'. There can be no argument
that Ezekial's vision is of God Himself. Because Ezekial specifies that he had visions of God.

How do you read the passages above wordsponge?
 
Jesus taught. the beloved and glorified Apostles, who taught in ALL the world >>
+++
1 John.5
[19] We (Apostles) know that we are of GOD,
and the whole world (of Israel) lies in wickedness.
[20] and we (Apostles) know that the Son of GOD has come
and he has given us an understanding
that we may know him (the Most High) who is true,
and we are in him (GOD) who is true
even (smoothly) in his Son Jesus Christ.
This is the true GOD (the unbegotten Father), and eternal life.
 
Actually there are three. The Holy Spirit is just as important as the Father and the Son.
This is simply the trinity. One God, three manifestations. They are three separate distinct personalities, but they are One God.

1 Cor 8:6; yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Gen 1:1; In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.



He was God and he was with God. Gen 1:1 says God created the heavens and the earth, John 1:3; says Jesus created everything, Jesus is God.

John 1:14; And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Isa 9:6; For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Jesus is God. The child that was given to us (Jesus) is mighty god, eternal Father.

Matt 1:23; "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."

Jesus' name actually means God with us, Jesus was with he us, he is God.

Isa 7:14; "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

John 10:30; "I and the Father are one."

John 14:9; Jesus *said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

If Jesus is a different God from the father, which one should we worship?

Exod 20:2; "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
Exod 20:3; "You shall have no other gods before Me.
 
Actually there are three. The Holy Spirit is just as important as the Father and the Son.
This is simply the trinity. One God, three manifestations. They are three separate distinct personalities, but they are One God.

1 Cor 8:6; yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Gen 1:1; In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.



He was God and he was with God. Gen 1:1 says God created the heavens and the earth, John 1:3; says Jesus created everything, Jesus is God.

John 1:14; And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Isa 9:6; For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Jesus is God. The child that was given to us (Jesus) is mighty god, eternal Father.

Matt 1:23; "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."

Jesus' name actually means God with us, Jesus was with he us, he is God.

Isa 7:14; "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

John 10:30; "I and the Father are one."

John 14:9; Jesus *said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

If Jesus is a different God from the father, which one should we worship?

Exod 20:2; "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
Exod 20:3; "You shall have no other gods before Me.
+++
Hi brother,

You are right UNTIL...

2 Cor.3
[17] Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
+
The Lord is that Spirit.
Therefore the lord is counted TWICE.

So 3 -1 =2

'Synonymity...being used..
Regards...

You are ok,
Jesus will show if you stick with him, for understanding , and not people.
 
+++
Hi brother,

You are right UNTIL...

2 Cor.3
[17] Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
+
The Lord is that Spirit.
Therefore the lord is counted TWICE.

So 3 -1 =2

'Synonymity...being used..
Regards...

You are ok,
Jesus will show if you stick with him, for understanding , and not people.

You have a body, a spirit, a soul, do you say you are three people? No. The Spirit of the Lord is the Lord. The spirit of a person is that person. Your arm is you, your body is you, your head is you, your spirit is you. The Spirit of Christ is just as much Christ Himself as His resurrected body in Heaven. Therefore there is only one Lord, not two.
 
You have a body, a spirit, a soul, do you say you are three people? No. The Spirit of the Lord is the Lord. The spirit of a person is that person. Your arm is you, your body is you, your head is you, your spirit is you. The Spirit of Christ is just as much Christ Himself as His resurrected body in Heaven. Therefore there is only one Lord, not two.
+++
I see inconsistency in the use of those three.
I stick with Jesus BODY and Spirit.

John.6
[63] It is the (human) spirit that quickens the (human) flesh (body) profits nothing:....
 
<o:p>
John.14
[7] If you (Apostles) had known me, (the God of Israel)
then you would have known (by revelation) my Father (#1) also
and from henceforth you know him (through his image/similitude)
and you have seen him (through his image/similitude).
</o:p>
Hello wordsponge.

Did you know that the Jehovah's witnesses love to quote the same verses as you do.
They also interpret the verses in the same manner as you do, but I think that they
claim Jesus was only a mighty angel. Which differs to your understanding it appears.

You said in another post which is similar to the one above.
John 14
[28] You (Apostles) have heard me say to you: I go away and I come again unto you.
If you loved me, then you would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father
because my Father >> is greater than I

The sum of what Jesus has said, is that, he is NOT of the same CALIBRE as his Father.
CONCLUSION: Jesus is not of the same calibre as his Father.
For the Jehovah's witnesses this is one of the defining verses of their theology. Jesus said
that the Father is greater than himself and what more evidence does one need. So it
would not be unreasonable at all to define Jesus as a lesser entity than God the Father.

The only problem with placing an undue emphasis on this passage, is that Jesus made this
statement as a man. When Jesus found Himself in the form of a man He humbled Himself,
as the scripture declares. It is critical that we understand that Jesus as a man no longer
looked at himself any other way than as a slave to both mankind and to His Father.

Philippians 2
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to
be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a slave.

Jesus let go of His former identity and became a man, born under the law in Israel.
As such Jesus constantly lived His life on earth in full submission to His Father.
Jesus had to obey the law, Jesus was under the authority of the Levitical priesthood.
Jesus lived His life in full submission to all governing authorities whether religous
or otherwise.

Jesus humbled Himself even though He was equal to His Father, that is what this
passage tells us! This is not a theological understanding but the simple revelation
of the scripture. Jesus was equal in all respects to His Father and the passage above
clearly informs us of this.

It is this profound humility that Jesus executed that is the sole cause of the confusion
regarding His identity. There are so many cults in the past and even to this day, that
view Jesus in all manner of ways due to this one verse. Some see Jesus as only a man
created by God (Christadelphians). Others see Jesus as a lesser God than the One
and Only God Almighty (Mormans). Still others see Jesus as only an angel (Jehovah's
witnesses). Wait there's more, there are many who see Jesus as only a prophet (Islam).
There are more interpretations available but space does not permit this.

There seems to be no end to the different interpretations and resulting cults that will
reveal the true identity of the Christ. These groups mentioned above, all see themselves
as the true children of the most High, Almighty God. Each group above are the elect, the
one and only, spiritual children of God. Every one of these groups view all other groups
as being deceived. Make no mistake on this point, all groups mentioned above elevate their
own self importance, they always do. There is never any humility at all in a cult.

When Jesus said His Father was greater, Jesus was telling the truth, for Jesus had
emptied Himself of His former Glory that He had with His Father.

Here is a verse that creates some problems for the array of interpretations mentioned
above.

John 14
7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know
Him, and have seen Him.

Jesus is now openly declaring that the apostles have seen the Father but have not
realized it. Well this verse carries the same weight as (John 14:28). Jesus declares
that the apostles have seen and also know the Father because they can see and know
Jesus.

Now we are caught in an intellectual bind, on the one hand the Father is greater than
Jesus, fact. But also, Jesus is fully representing His Father, fact. To see and know Jesus
means we see and know the Father, fact.

If Jesus is truly a lesser being than His Father, then we cannot really be seeing or knowing
the Father! If you are struggling with this dual identity of Jesus you are not alone, please
read the following.

John 14
8 Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.

The apostle Philip makes the obvious request of Jesus. Show us the Father so that
we will finally know for sure whether you are telling the truth! After all, if we can see
the Almighty God in person then we can confirm your claims. Jesus, just show us the Father
and I will never question you again on this subject.

John 14
9 Jesus said to him, Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me,
Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Knowing Jesus is knowing the Father, there is no distinction between these two identities.
Talking to Jesus is exactly the same as talking to the Father. Worshiping Jesus is simply
worshiping the Father. They are one and the same God, there by simple reason cannot
exist any difference what so ever between them. For if there was any difference at all
between them, then knowing Jesus would mean that one does not fully know the Father.
This conclusion is impossible to avoid, Jesus must be God the Father in all facets for
the scripture above to hold.

How Philip can you say 'show us the Father' ???
 
Last edited:
Hello wordsponge.

Did you know that the Jehovah's witnesses love to quote the same verses as you do.
They also interpret the verses in the same manner as you do, but I think that they
claim Jesus was only a mighty angel. Which differs to your understanding it appears.

You said in another post which is similar to the one above.

For the Jehovah's witnesses this is one of the defining verses of their theology. Jesus said
that the Father is greater than himself and what more evidence does one need. So it
would not be unreasonable at all to define Jesus as a lesser entity than God the Father.

The only problem with placing an undue emphasis on this passage, is that Jesus made this
statement as a man. When Jesus found Himself in the form of a man He humbled Himself,
as the scripture declares. It is critical that we understand that Jesus as a man no longer
looked at himself any other way than as a slave to both mankind and to His Father.

Philippians 2
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to
be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a slave.

Jesus let go of His former identity and became a man, born under the law in Israel.
As such Jesus constantly lived His life on earth in full submission to His Father.
Jesus had to obey the law, Jesus was under the authority of the Levitical priesthood.
Jesus lived His life in full submission to all governing authorities whether religous
or otherwise.

Jesus humbled Himself even though He was equal to His Father, that is what this
passage tells us! This is not a theological understanding but the simple revelation
of the scripture. Jesus was equal in all respects to His Father and the passage above
clearly informs us of this.

It is this profound humility that Jesus executed that is the sole cause of the confusion
regarding His identity. There are so many cults in the past and even to this day, that
view Jesus in all manner of ways due to this one verse. Some see Jesus as only a man
created by God (Christadelphians). Others see Jesus as a lesser God than the One
and Only God Almighty (Mormans). Still others see Jesus as only an angel (Jehovah's
witnesses). Wait there's more, there are many who see Jesus as only a prophet (Islam).
There are more interpretations available but space does not permit this.

There seems to be no end to the different interpretations and resulting cults that will
reveal the true identity of the Christ. These groups mentioned above, all see themselves
as the true children of the most High, Almighty God. Each group above are the elect, the
one and only, spiritual children of God. Every one of these groups view all other groups
as being deceived. Make no mistake on this point, all groups mentioned above elevate their
own self importance, they always do. There is never any humility at all in a cult.

When Jesus said His Father was greater, Jesus was telling the truth, for Jesus had
emptied Himself of His former Glory that He had with His Father.

Here is a verse that creates some problems for the array of interpretations mentioned
above.

John 14
7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know
Him, and have seen Him.

Jesus is now openly declaring that the apostles have seen the Father but have not
realized it. Well this verse carries the same weight as (John 14:28). Jesus declares
that the apostles have seen and also know the Father because they can see and know
Jesus.

Now we are caught in an intellectual bind, on the one hand the Father is greater than
Jesus, fact. But also, Jesus is fully representing His Father, fact. To see and know Jesus
means we see and know the Father, fact.

If Jesus is truly a lesser being than His Father, then we cannot really be seeing or knowing
the Father! If you are struggling with this dual identity of Jesus you are not alone, please
read the following.

John 14
8 Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.

The apostle Philip makes the obvious request of Jesus. Show us the Father so that
we will finally know for sure whether you are telling the truth! After all, if we can see
the Almighty God in person then we can confirm your claims. Jesus, just show us the Father
and I will never question you again on this subject.

John 14
9 Jesus said to him, Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me,
Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Knowing Jesus is knowing the Father, there is no distinction between these two identities.
Talking to Jesus is exactly the same as talking to the Father. Worshiping Jesus is simply
worshiping the Father. They are one and the same God, there by simple reason cannot
exist any difference what so ever between them. For if there was any difference at all
between them, then knowing Jesus would mean that one does not fully know the Father.
This conclusion is impossible to avoid, Jesus must be God the Father in all facets for
the scripture above to hold.

How Philip can you say 'show us the Father' ???

The Jehovah witnesses are indeed Arian but they do not say that Jesus is God, as wordsponge has.
 
The Jehovah witnesses are indeed Arian but they do not say that Jesus is God, as wordsponge has.
+++
Many do not know that Jesus was always with the SHEEP and the Father in the SHEEP.
Isa.42
[16] And I (the Father) will bring the (Spiritually) blind by a (NEW) way that they did not know.
I will lead them in (NEW) paths that they have not known:
I will make darkness light before them,
and crooked things straight.
These things will I do unto them,
and (I will) not forsake them.

Heb.13
[5] Let your conversation be without covetousness;
and be content with such things like you have:
for he (the Highest) has said:
I will never leave you, nor forsake you.

If a person is not baptized, as is acceptable,
then the person has not made connection with Christ and GOD.


 
Back
Top