Hidden reefs - false grace

[B-A-C]

These people are mentioned through the new testament, but I will specifically focus on the book of Jude here.

Jude 1:3; Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.
Jude 1:4; For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:5; Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.

Who are these "certain persons" who have "crept in unnoticed" into the church? They are "ungodly persons who the grace of our God into a license to sin".
Jude reminds us here, even though God saved the Jews from the bondage of Egypt, He still destroyed some of those He rescued.

Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Even angels who were once in heaven with God, but decided to rebel against Him will receive the punishment of eternal fire.

Jude 1:8; Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties.

"these same men", these unglodly people that have crept into the church.. they defile the flesh and reject authority.
Have you noticed how prevalent these people are in the church today? Even here on TJ. It seems every other post is about Christians
are unable to sin.. or even if they do sin there is no consequences for it. I'm not talking about occasional stumbling here, I'm taking about
people who say we shouldn't even be aware of our sins anymore.

Jude 1:10; But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.
Jude 1:11; Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
Jude 1:12; These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;
Jude 1:13; wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.

"these men" (who have crept into the church to turn grace into a license to sin) don't even understand what they are saying. They have gone the way of Cain and Balaam.

At one time Cain was making offerings to God. But God was dissapointed in Cains offering, so Cain blamed his brother and killed him.
At one time Balaam was a godly man, but at the end of his life he turned to follow other gods and told the Jews it was OK to do so.
"These men" (who revile authority and defile the flesh) are hidden reefs. They care only about themselves. They are without fruit. The Bible says the black darkness is reserved for them.

Jude 1:14; It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,
Jude 1:15; to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
Jude 1:16; These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.

The Bible says The Lord is coming to execute judgment on the ungodly. People who follow after their own lusts, people who are arrogant. People who flatter you to get an advantage.
So what should we do about this?

Jude 1:17; But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Jude 1:18; that they were saying to you, "In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts."
Jude 1:19; These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.

The mockers are here.. in case you haven't noticed. The hidden reefs are among us today. They are causing division in the church.
Not only do they follow after their own ungodly lusts, but they are telling us "it's OK". "God doesn't really care about that. It's not even really sin".

Jude 1:20; But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
Jude 1:21; keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.
Jude 1:22; And have mercy on some, who are doubting;
Jude 1:23; save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.

Yes there is mercy and grace, I'm not saying there isn't any. None of us will get to heaven without it. I'm not saying it's not OK to stumble.
What Jude is saying here is... there are people who sneak into the church (ungodly people) who want us to be just as ungodly as they are.

 

[regibassman57]

Who are these "certain persons" who have "crept in unnoticed" into the church? They are "ungodly persons who the grace of our God into a license to sin" It seems every other post is about Christiansare unable to sin.. or even if they do sin there is no consequences for it. I'm not talking about occasional stumbling here, I'm taking about people who say we shouldn't even be aware of our sins anymore. "these men" (who have crept into the church to turn grace into a license to sin) don't even understand what they are saying. They have gone the way of Cain and Balaam. What Jude is saying here is... there are people who sneak into the church (ungodly people) who want us to be just as ungodly as they are.

@B-A-C,

You are speaking from a one-sided understanding. I’m speaking from the understanding of both sides. I’ve thought the same way you have in the past and my eyes were opened. If you understood the term “unfruitful works” you would not speak through words showing your lack of understanding in this post. If you understood Grace, you would not speak and show your lack of understanding on the subject of Grace. God instituted “Grace” because man could not take sins away of himself. This is the purpose of Jesus Christ’s coming. If the law could have taken away sins, Jesus would not have had to come.

Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which you could not be “justified” by the “law of Moses.”

Rom 8:3 For what the “law could not do,” in that it was weak through the flesh, “God sending his own Son” in the likeness of sinful flesh, and “for sin,” “condemned sin” in the flesh:

Rom 8:2 For the “law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus” hath made me “free” from the “law of sin and death.”

Everything you’ve said about giving people a “license” to sin would be a “sin” in itself on your part (if God was imputing sin). No one on this forum has said believers have a license to sin. To give a person a “license to sin” would have to “justify the works” of evil that were known as sin. No person on this post does that. No person on this post speaks contrary to the consequences of wrong actions. This is why I said, you are speaking from ignorance and in your ignorance you are lying and mischaracterizing upright Christians by your wrong assumptions.

You posted the scripture: Jude 1:5; Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.

It says that God “saved” a people out of the land of Egypt. Once Israel was saved from bondage in Egypt, they never went back into bondage to Egypt because they were “saved” from Egypt; it was done. Scripture says that Jesus “saved” believers from sin and you say believers have gone back into sin; as to say, Israel went back into Egypt.

You are not accepting Eph. 2:5, 8, 9. This is the Grace that saved believers from sin. You are seeking to condemn people that teach what the Grace of God has done. You are saying believers are not saved from sin, not healed from sin, not redeemed from sin, not sanctified from sin, etc. God’s Grace is for believers to learn and give space mentally from condemnation which comes from the consciousness of sin.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Believers have been saved from sin like Israel was saved from Egypt.

 

[B-A-C]

Believers have been saved from sin like Israel was saved from Egypt.

Keep in mind none of the Jews that were saved from Egypt entered into the promised land.

Yes God "saved" them from Egypt. Just because your saved doesn't mean you are guaranteed to make it to the promised land.

You are not accepting Eph. 2:5, 8, 9. This is the Grace that saved believers from sin.

Your right, I don't. The words "grace" and "alone" don't appear together in scripture anywhere.

Jas 2:20; But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

Jas 2:24; You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

 

[regibassman57]

@B-A-C,

Keep in mind none of the Jews that were saved from Egypt entered into the promised land.

Yes God "saved" them from Egypt. Just because your saved doesn't mean you are guaranteed to make it to the promised land.

That is true, only Joshua and Caleb entered into the promise land of those that were saved from Eygpt and the children under 20 years old. Those that didn't enter, didn't enter because of their unbelief; they didn't believe God's word. But the point I was making is they were saved and never went back into bondage. Why then do believers teach Christians go backward into something they were saved from?

Your right, I don't. The words "grace" and "alone" don't appear together in scripture anywhere.

Jas 2:20; But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

Jas 2:24; You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

I don’t believe in the Grace alone doctrine for the inheritance of Eternal life. Ephesians 2: 5, 8, 9 is teaching “Grace alone” from the deliverance from sin. No man can work to be delivered and saved from sin, so it is by “Grace Alone” in Christ. Only Jesus could do this work through His death and resurrection. This is why Israel couldn’t have life through “their works” of animal sacrifices. The blood of bulls and goats or the works of any man could not give life. Jesus only could do the work for the salvation from sins.

I agree it doesn’t mean a believer will obtain Eternal Life. I’ve consistently posted Matthew 13:41. For those believers that are disobedient, God will gather them “out” of the Kingdom and they will inherit death.

 

[B-A-C]

Why then do believers teach Christians go backward into something they were saved from?

They weren't saved from the bondage of the law. They were saved from the bondage of sin.

I agree it doesn’t mean a believer will obtain Eternal Life. I’ve consistently posted Matthew 13:41. For those believers that are disobedient, God will gather them “out” of the Kingdom and they will inherit death.

On this we agree, but even here you are admitting obedience is required. Grace alone doesn't do it all.

 

[regibassman57]

@B-A-C,

They weren't saved from the bondage of the law. They were saved from the bondage of sin.
On this we agree, but even here you are admitting obedience is required. Grace alone doesn't do it all.

Israel was saved from the bondage of hard labor from a sinful people. Believers have been saved from the bondage of sin imputed unto them by the law of sin and death. Neither can go back into slavery of sin unless God changes His mind and that will not happen.

You must have me mixed up with another member. When have I ever said “obedience” was not required? And I’ve never said it’s by Grace alone when it comes to “Eternal Life.”

 

[regibassman57]

@B-A-C ,
What is the difference between a man being declared righteous or unrighteous by the law, as oppose to a man being declared righteous or unrighteous by Jesus Christ?

 

[Dave M]

Who are these "certain persons" who have "crept in unnoticed" into the church? They are "ungodly persons who the grace of our God into a license to sin".

thanks for the great post brother @B-A-C

seems these people pop on her on TJ on a regular basis now adays. preaching theology that appeals to the flesh, not the spirit. I cant help wonder if they are actually just deceived themselves or are they trying to deceive us. either way best to let them alone and just pray for them in the name of Jesus.