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Hey Jude

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Loyal
Another book I have been reading lately... the book of Jude. One of the shorter books of the Bible. Only one chapter :smile:

I guess we should start off with... who is Jude? (Other than someone the Beatles knew :smile: )

Jude 1:1; Jude, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ:
Jude 1:2; May mercy and peace and love be multiplied to you.

The answer to that question mostly depends on whether you are protestant or Roman Catholic.

Protestant believe he was the brother of Jesus. (or at least half-brother).
In verse 1 above he identifies himself as the brother of James.

There were of course two disciples named James. One was the brother of John, "sons of thunder"
also known as the sons of Zebedee..

Mark 3:17; and James, the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James (to them He gave the name Boanerges, which means, "Sons of Thunder") ;

The other James was the son of Alphaeus.

Matt 10:3; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;

This is the James thought to have written the book of James. He also had a brother named Jude (Judas)

Matt 13:55; "Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?

Gal 1:19; But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord's brother.

There are several verses in the new testament that say Mary was the mother of James and Judas (not Iscariat obviously) as well as some other names as well. But James, Jesus's half-brother is thought to have written the book of James, and Jude (James and Jesus's brother) is thought to have written the book of Jude.

Mark 6:3; "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?" And they took offense at Him.

The only place it actually uses his Romanized name is in the book of Jude. ( Jude 1:1; )

It is unknown whether Jude was one of the brother who initially did not believe in Jesus and made fun of Him.

John 7:3; Therefore His brothers said to Him, "Leave here and go into Judea, so that Your disciples also may see Your works which You are doing.
John 7:4; "For no one does anything in secret when he himself seeks to be known publicly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world."
John 7:5; For not even His brothers were believing in Him.

The book of Jude is "mostly" about false teachers who claim to be Christians as we will see.

.. to be continued ...
 
Active
Interesting BAC, I would like to know if there's anything further on Jesus sisters. The Bible doesn't give their names...
 
Loyal
Interesting BAC, I would like to know if there's anything further on Jesus sisters. The Bible doesn't give their names...
This is a little off topic, since very little of this is in the book of Jude, but there is of course quite a bit of information about Jesus's genealogy
and immediate family in the Bible.

To answer your question, it seems He had sister(s) also. Plural, as in "more than one".

Matt 13:55; "Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?
Matt 13:56; "And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?"

Mark 6:3; "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?" And they took offense at Him.

Matt 12:46; While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him.
Matt 12:47; Someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."

Mark 3:31; Then His mother and His brothers *arrived, and standing outside they sent word to Him and called Him.
Mark 3:32; A crowd was sitting around Him, and they *said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are outside looking for You."

Luke 8:19; And His mother and brothers came to Him, and they were unable to get to Him because of the crowd.
Luke 8:20; And it was reported to Him, "Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, wishing to see You."

Depending upon how you divide these verses up and your interpretation of English grammar, Jesus may have had a sister named Salome.

Mark 15:40; There were also some women looking on from a distance, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the Less and Joses, and Salome.
Mark 16:1; When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him.

There was a movie made back in the 1950's with Rita Hayworth called "Salome", but it was about Herod's daughter who danced before him and asked Herod
to cut off John the Baptists head. ( Matt 14:3-10; ) however in the Bible, it never says her name is Salome.

John the Baptist was Jesus's relative as well.

Luke 1:36; "And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has also conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month.
Luke 1:56; And Mary stayed with her about three months, and then returned to her home.

Mary possibly had a sister named Mary, who was married to Clopas.

John 19:25; Therefore the soldiers did these things. But standing by the cross of Jesus were His mother, and His mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.
 
Loyal
.. back to Jude...

Jude 1:3; Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.
Jude 1:4; For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:5; Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.

Apparently Jude wanted to write a letter to the church about "our common salvation". It is unknown if Jude wrote any other letters to the church.
The book of Jude is the only surviving manuscripts. But in this letter he says... "I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith".

I wonder why he felt this way? Some churches teach that we don't actually have to "contend" for the faith. But here in the Bible it says we do.
There are many other verses in the new Testament with similar language.

Jude warns them.. "certain persons have crept in unnoticed" .. this still happens frequently even today. I have seen these people in some of the churches
I have attended over the years, and you even see them here on TJ every now and then.

"ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness". Has there ever been a more true statement in the Bible?? If this isn't a striking
commentary about many in the church today, I don't know what is. Every now and then I flip through the "religious" channels on cable television.
Now don't get me wrong, some of these preachers teach the word pretty well. But there are also many who preach licentious grace.

li·cen·tious
līˈsenSHəs/
adjective
adjective: licentious

1.
promiscuous and unprincipled in sexual matters.
synonyms: dissolute, dissipated, debauched, degenerate, immoral, naughty, wanton, decadent, depraved, sinful, corrupt; More
lustful, lecherous, lascivious, libidinous, prurient, lubricious, lewd, promiscuous, lickerish;
formalconcupiscent
"a book that exaggerates the licentious behavior of the rich and famous"
antonyms: moral
2.
archaic
disregarding accepted rules or conventions, especially in grammar or literary style.

These teachers teach that the grace of God exists, just so you can sin. In fact they believe grace gives you a license to sin or do whatever you want.
They preach it doesn't matter how you live as long as you believe in Jesus. But that isn't what the Bible says, in fact Jude explains this as well.

"Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe."

Just because God saved the Israelites out of Egypt, doesn't mean they could do whatever they wanted. Those who forsook Him and worshiped the golden
calf were killed before they ever reached the promised land.

... next, rebellious angels ...
 
Loyal
I know I said we would talk about angels, and so we will.. but I'd like to take a bit of a detour here and talk about giants.
(trust me, this has to do with Jude)

Now it seems whenever you want to talk about giants people roll their eyes, and giggle, or else that flat out deny they existed at all.
The plain and simple fact of the matter is... giants are mentioned in the Bible quite frequently. Either you believe the Bible, or you don't.

All of these verses are from King James.
Gen 6:4; There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Numb 13:33; And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
Deut 2:10 The Emims dwelt therein in times past, a people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims;
Deut 2:11 Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites call them Emims.
Deut 2:20; (That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;
Deut 3:11; For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.
Deut 3:13; And the rest of Gilead, and all Bashan, being the kingdom of Og, gave I unto the half tribe of Manasseh; all the region of Argob, with all Bashan, which was called the land of giants.
Josh 12:4; And the coast of Og king of Bashan, which was of the remnant of the giants, that dwelt at Ashtaroth and at Edrei,
Josh 13:12; All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in Ashtaroth and in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did Moses smite, and cast them out.
Josh 15:8; And the border went up by the valley of the son of Hinnom unto the south side of the Jebusite; the same is Jerusalem: and the border went up to the top of the mountain that lieth before the valley of Hinnom westward, which is at the end of the valley of the giants northward:
Josh 17:15; And Joshua answered them, If thou be a great people, then get thee up to the wood country, and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee.
Josh 18:16; And the border came down to the end of the mountain that lieth before the valley of the son of Hinnom, and which is in the valley of the giants on the north, and descended to the valley of Hinnom, to the side of Jebusi on the south, and descended to Enrogel,

In fact it specifically names some giants.

2 Sam 21:16; And Ishbibenob, which was of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose spear weighed three hundred shekels of brass in weight, he being girded with a new sword, thought to have slain David.
2 Sam 21:18 ; And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which was of the sons of the giant.
2 Sam 21:20; And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.
2 Sam 21:22; These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.
1 Chron 20:4; And it came to pass after this, that there arose war at Gezer with the Philistines; at which time Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Sippai, that was of the children of the giant: and they were subdued.
1 Chron; 20:6 And yet again there was war at Gath, where was a man of great stature, whose fingers and toes were four and twenty, six on each hand, and six on each foot: and he also was the son of the giant.
1 Chron 20:8; These were born unto the giant in Gath; and they fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.

The Hebrew word here is...

רָפָה רָפָא
râphâ' râphâh
raw-faw', raw-faw'
From H7495 in the sense of invigorating; a giant: - giant, Rapha, Rephaim (-s). See also H1051.
Total KJV occurrences: 21

Of course most of us know the story or David and Goliath (the giant).

1 Sam 17:4; Then a champion came out from the armies of the Philistines named Goliath, from Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.

So the question here is... "Where did the giants come from"? Again, this is often debated, but here are some thoughts and scriptures.
Did God create the giants? Just so they could be destroyed? Or did they come from an un-natural source?

Gen 6:4; There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Because of this verse, that mentions the "sons" of God getting together and mingling with the "daughters" of men... some scholars believe this
is where the giants came from. The book of Enoch is not part of the canonized Bible, but it dedicates an entire chapter to this thought that giants
came from hanky-panky between the angels and humans. Some believe angels are not capable of having sex, but this isn't the only verse that disagrees
with that thought. ...so... what does this have to do with Jude?

... back to Jude ...

Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Some angels left heaven, (some rebelled with Satan) and now they are being "kept in eternal bonds" for the judgment.
Some of these angels committed sexual sins (like the people of Sodom and Gomorrah) and they went after "strange flesh". People interpret these verses
differently of course, but I don't think it's an accident it mentions Sodom and Gomorrah here. In the same passage it says "they went after strange flesh".
Unusual flesh, not natural flesh. The word in Hebrew here is...

ἕτερος
heteros
het'-er-os
Of uncertain affinity; (an-, the) other or different: - altered, else, next (day), one, (an-) other, some, strange.
Total KJV occurrences: 99

different, altered... strange, other... They went after a type of flesh that wasn't their own. In this case, humans... "the daughters of men".

Gen 6:2; says...

Gen 6:2; That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

It appeared that these "sons" of God even married some of the "daughters" of men.

Now some take verses like Matt 22:30; and Mark 12:25; to mean that angels can't be married or have sex. I think it simply means
God's angels aren't married in heaven. The good angels never married humans. In any case, the giants came from some where.

If you aren't buying this story about the angels... don't feel alone. But somehow, somewhere, the angels wents after un-natural (strange) flesh.

God may not have wanted the angels to be married, but...

Jude 1:8; Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties.

they defiled the flesh and rejected authority... just in case you were wondering... we are still talking about people who crept in un-noticed
and are turning the grace of God into licentiousness. Jude is using the angels as an example of being that did the same thing.
Jude is saying these people who are doing this will be punished just like the angels that rejected God's authority.

(**whew** how is that for a long trip around the block?)

In fact Jude verses 4 though 16 are all talking about these "ungodly people" who crept in un-noticed. We still have nine more verses
about these people.

.. to be continued ...
 
Loyal
I didn't check with the moderators, but I hope it's OK to post this... This is the Book of Enoch, chapter 6.
The Book of Enoch is not part of the Bible. I always dread posting "non-Bible" references, but hopefully this
will give you an idea of where some of this comes from. In my defense, at least I'm warning everyone this isn't from the Bible.

1. And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters.
2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.'
3. And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.'
4. And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.'
5. Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.
6. And they were in all two hundred; who descended ⌈in the days⌉ of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.
7. And these are the names of their leaders: Sêmîazâz, their leader, Arâkîba, Râmêêl, Kôkabîêl, Tâmîêl, Râmîêl, Dânêl, Êzêqêêl, Barâqîjâl, Asâêl, Armârôs, Batârêl, Anânêl, Zaqîêl, Samsâpêêl, Satarêl, Tûrêl, Jômjâêl, Sariêl.
8. These are their chiefs of tens.

The language is very similar to the beginning of Genesis chapter 6.

The book of Jude directly quotes the book of Enoch, so Jude must have been familiar with it.

Jude 1:14; It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,
Jude 1:15; to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

Notice this is a direct quote of the Book of Enoch, chapter 1, verse 9.

9. And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of ⌈His⌉ holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy ⌈all⌉ the ungodly:
And to convict all flesh
Of all the works ⌈of their ungodliness⌉ which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners ⌈have spoken⌉ against Him.
 
Loyal
Jude 1:8; Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties.
Jude 1:9; But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"
Jude 1:10; But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.
Jude 1:11; Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

So we are still in the context of "those certain people" who have "crept un-noticed" into the church. ( Jude 1:4; )

"these same men" = (those people mentioned in verse 4) they defile the flesh. Like the angels did, and like the people of Sodom and Gomorrah did.
They reject authority. The authority of God, of Jesus, and of God's word.

Verse 9 is somewhat controversial... but we learn a few things here. When did Satan and Michael argue over Moses's body?
The term "archangel" is only mentioned a few times in the Bible. (1 Thess 4:16; and Jude 1:9; )
Some people believe Gabriel is also an archangel, and yet other believe Satan/Lucifer was an archangel before he rebelled.
In any case.. even Michael the archangel did not judge Satan, but rather said "The Lord rebuke you". He left the final word up to God.

But "these men" (still the same men in verse 4) revile the things they do not understand. They don't understand who God is. They don't understand
the consequences of "rejecting His authority" and "reviling God's will". They do whatever they want. They have gone the way of Cain.
Cain was of course Adam and Eve's son who killed his brother Abel. Balaam is of course mentioned in Numbers 22. This is where the talking
donkey see the angel. But Balaam does not. Balaam was hired to curse the enemies of Balak, but he didn't, he blessed them. (However
God turned the curse into blessings). Balaam is also mentioned 2 Pet 2:15; and Rev 2:24;

Just like Balaam these people want to do the exact opposite of what God and the Bible say to do.

.. to be continued ..
 
Active
This is a little off topic, since very little of this is in the book of Jude, but there is of course quite a bit of information about Jesus's genealogy
and immediate family in the Bible.

To answer your question, it seems He had sister(s) also. Plural, as in "more than one".

Matt 13:55; "Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?
Matt 13:56; "And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?"

Mark 6:3; "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?" And they took offense at Him.

Matt 12:46; While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him.
Matt 12:47; Someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."

Mark 3:31; Then His mother and His brothers *arrived, and standing outside they sent word to Him and called Him.
Mark 3:32; A crowd was sitting around Him, and they *said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are outside looking for You."

Luke 8:19; And His mother and brothers came to Him, and they were unable to get to Him because of the crowd.
Luke 8:20; And it was reported to Him, "Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, wishing to see You."

Depending upon how you divide these verses up and your interpretation of English grammar, Jesus may have had a sister named Salome.

Mark 15:40; There were also some women looking on from a distance, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the Less and Joses, and Salome.
Mark 16:1; When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him.

There was a movie made back in the 1950's with Rita Hayworth called "Salome", but it was about Herod's daughter who danced before him and asked Herod
to cut off John the Baptists head. ( Matt 14:3-10; ) however in the Bible, it never says her name is Salome.

John the Baptist was Jesus's relative as well.

Luke 1:36; "And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has also conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month.
Luke 1:56; And Mary stayed with her about three months, and then returned to her home.

Mary possibly had a sister named Mary, who was married to Clopas.

John 19:25; Therefore the soldiers did these things. But standing by the cross of Jesus were His mother, and His mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.
Thanks wasnt there another lady named Joanna, could have been a sister,but I doubt Mary had a sister also named Mary it would have been someone else. I mean you dont name your sisters the same.

Sorry to go off topic.
 
Loyal
Thanks wasnt there another lady named Joanna, could have been a sister,but I doubt Mary had a sister also named Mary it would have been someone else. I mean you dont name your sisters the same.
I tend to agree with you here. Still whatever her name was... it seems Mary had a sister.

John 19:25; Therefore the soldiers did these things. But standing by the cross of Jesus were His mother, and His mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.
 
Loyal
Jude 1:12; These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;
Jude 1:13; wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.
Jude 1:14; It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,
Jude 1:15; to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

"These are the men" - what men? We are still talking about the ungodly people who creep into the church un-noticed back in verse 4.

They are hidden reefs. Rocks hidden in shallow water, just waiting for a ship to pass by. I don't know if you've ever seen an old boat or ship
with it's bottom ripped apart by a reef, but they can sink very very quickly. Everything is going along smoothly and then all of a sudden without
warning, you are sinking.

In your "love feasts". I'm not exactly sure what a "love feast" is. This is the only verse I could find in the entire Bible with that phrase.
But it seems some believe this is like an orgy. I think this is unlikely, what would a believer be doing at an orgy?
More likely it is just a gathering together of believers to fellowship and encourage and love on one another. These people want to "fit in"
be part of the church, be friends with believers.. but they only care about themselves. They have no fear in their actions or their beliefs.

They are "clouds without water". Sometimes clouds are good for just the shade, but if a cloud never rains or waters, what good is it?
They are just carried along by whichever way the wind is blowing today. Whenever I read this I think of Ephesians 4:4; (also James 1:6; )
about people who have no firm root in what they believe, no anchor in Jesus... they are just tossed around on the waves or blown
around by the winds, not even caring where they end up. They have no conscience or shame, whenever they feel a little guilt they just
cast it off "like sea foam". These people are hanging around for the reason to lead you astray. To be a reef for you ship. ( 1 Tim 1:19; )
Ready to shipwreck your faith. Remember how this passage started off... they turn the grace of God into a license to sin, by doing this
they deny Jesus. ( Jude 1:4; )

Verse 13 is somewhat controversial... "for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever". There are some in the church who
don't believe in two destinations. They say it isn't simply heaven or the lake of fire, but there is another place for some people... "the
outer darkness". ( Matt 8:12; Matt 25:30; 2 Pet 2:17; )

This entire passage is very similar to 2nd Peter 2:9-22; It also speaks about those who revile authority, and indulge in fleshly desires.
It also says these people follow Balaam, and go into the darkness. ( 2 Peter 2:17; )

I already briefly mentioned verses 14 and 15 previously, because these are the verses that quote the book of Enoch. But the bottom line here is..
God is going to judge those people.
 
Loyal
Jude 1:15; to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
Jude 1:16; These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.

Why is God coming back? To execute judgment, and to convict the ungodly.
Are you a grumbler? Do you find faults with others? Do you follow after your own lusts and desires? Are you arrogant?
If you aren't... do you know people like this? Most of us do.

People who "flatter" people for the sake of gaining an advantage. Remember these are still the same people who sneak into the church
and come to your church socials ("love feasts") and try to fit it... just so they can lead you astray.

.. next, mockers...
 
Loyal
So we have finally finished talking about those people "who have crept into the church un-noticed".
But Jude continues on with an admonition.. because of these people.

Jude 1:17; But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Jude 1:18; that they were saying to you, "In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts."
Jude 1:19; These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.

He starts off saying we should remember the words of the apostles. There are plenty of their words in the Bible.
Paul, John, Jude, Peter, James, ... these guys wrote most of the new testament. I don't think that means we should ignore Mark and Luke, those
who were never called apostles. Of course the words of the apostles are all built on Jesus. Who did they learn everything from?

In the "last time". When is the last times? Another hotly debated subject in the church today. But for me personally, I can't help but think
it is very very near. We certainly have "mockers" who follow after their own lusts. Some of these people even call themselves "Christians".

A lot of the book of Jude is similar to 2nd Peter. Here is a short passage.

2 Pet 3:3; Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,
2 Pet 3:4; and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."
2 Pet 3:5; For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,
2 Pet 3:6; through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.
2 Pet 3:7; But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

Again we see these mockers... "Where is Jesus?" "When is He coming back?" "He should have been here by now if He is coming". of course
"God is dead" and "There is no God". But one day this earth, and the current heavens will be burned up in fire. There will be a new heaven and a new earth.

In Jude verse 19, it says "these are the ones that cause divisions". It says they are devoid of the Spirit.
For me at least, these people are remarkably easy to spot after they say a few sentences or type a few lines in a TJ thread. They are common here on
TalkJesus. Some even claim to be clergy-persons. I've heard some of these people preach sermons. The ones who come here to speak of licentiousness
and cause division may have "crept in un-noticed". But they are here (and likely in your church as well) and it's time to wake up, and take notice of them.

...next... praying "in the Holy Spirit" and keeping "yourself" in the love of God.
 
Member
So we have finally finished talking about those people "who have crept into the church un-noticed".
But Jude continues on with an admonition.. because of these people.

Jude 1:17; But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Jude 1:18; that they were saying to you, "In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts."
Jude 1:19; These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.

He starts off saying we should remember the words of the apostles. There are plenty of their words in the Bible.
Paul, John, Jude, Peter, James, ... these guys wrote most of the new testament. I don't think that means we should ignore Mark and Luke, those
who were never called apostles. Of course the words of the apostles are all built on Jesus. Who did they learn everything from?

In the "last time". When is the last times? Another hotly debated subject in the church today. But for me personally, I can't help but think
it is very very near. We certainly have "mockers" who follow after their own lusts. Some of these people even call themselves "Christians".

A lot of the book of Jude is similar to 2nd Peter. Here is a short passage.

2 Pet 3:3; Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,
2 Pet 3:4; and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."
2 Pet 3:5; For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,
2 Pet 3:6; through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.
2 Pet 3:7; But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

Again we see these mockers... "Where is Jesus?" "When is He coming back?" "He should have been here by now if He is coming". of course
"God is dead" and "There is no God". But one day this earth, and the current heavens will be burned up in fire. There will be a new heaven and a new earth.

In Jude verse 19, it says "these are the ones that cause divisions". It says they are devoid of the Spirit.
For me at least, these people are remarkably easy to spot after they say a few sentences or type a few lines in a TJ thread. They are common here on
TalkJesus. Some even claim to be clergy-persons. I've heard some of these people preach sermons. The ones who come here to speak of licentiousness
and cause division may have "crept in un-noticed". But they are here (and likely in your church as well) and it's time to wake up, and take notice of them.

...next... praying "in the Holy Spirit" and keeping "yourself" in the love of God.
is there any room for repentance for these people?
 
Loyal
Jude 1:20; But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
Jude 1:21; keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.
Jude 1:22; And have mercy on some, who are doubting;
Jude 1:23; save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.

Have you ever noticed how many verses in the new testament talk about us being builded up? We are often compared to a house that is being built.
Both in the individual sense, and the corporate (church body) sense. ( Matt 7:24; Matt 7:26; Luke 6:48-49; Acts 9:31; 1 Cor 3:14; Eph 2:20-22; Col 2:7; Heb 3:4; 1 Pet 2:5;
Matt 16:18; Acts 20:32; Rom 15:20; 1 Thess 5:11; etc... ) I notice none of these verses say your "house" is finished yet.

Another phrase in the first verse here a lot of people miss is.. "praying in the Holy Spirit". This is actually mentioned several places by Paul.

Rom 8:26; In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
1 Cor 14:14; For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
1 Cor 14:15; What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.
Eph 6:18; With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,

I think some people just assume that anytime they are praying, they are "praying in the Spirit". Yet Paul says it's possible to separate these things.

Have mercy on some who are doubting. Doubting in what way? I believe Christians doubt sometimes. We shouldn't, but we do. Even the disciples asked
Jesus to give them more faith. Peter started sinking when he was walking on the water. "Doubting" Thomas didn't believe that Jesus really rose from the grave.
We say we know God can do anything, and yet there are those times.. when we have felt our problems are too big for God.

Verse 23 is somewhat controversial, "save others" ... "snatching them out of the fire"....

The plain and simple fact here is... the salvation of some people depend of us. Of course we ourselves do not have the power to save them, we aren't Jesus.
But we can correct them in love. ( 2 Tim 3:16; 2 Tim 2:25; etc.. ) sometimes, just being the light in the darkness, just a right word at the right time can change a person's
life. Their entire out-look on life. Sometimes we speak life, and sometimes we speak death, but I believe we will be held responsible for those we had a chance to
witness to, but never did. Some people who are going through desperate times, never stop to consider Jesus. Others who have thought about Him have given up on Him.
Maybe.. just maybe we can be the difference that leads them to Jesus.

I would like to talk about "polluted garments" but it's a large subject and I might have to get back to it. ( Rev 3:4; Rev 3:18; etc.. )
 
Active
I hope so...but the ones that do creep into church would actually hear about Jesus.. and they are being witnessed to everytime they go to church so if they hadn't heard by then and still behaving the way of Cain and not listening then there's nothing much you can do...
It's the ones who refuse to come and stay away (hide) for whatever reason that we need to reach.

There's a picture in Jeremiah about this as was asking God about it..as you were saying about the polluted garment, well in Jeremiah the prophet was shown a girdle and told to hide it in a rock. He took it out again and it was ruined. God was showing that people who refuse to listen to him will be like that girdle.
 
Loyal
Jude 1:24; Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,
Jude 1:25; to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

And so we finally make it to the last verses of Jude.
"to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling". Always the controversy.
Calvinists take this to mean if you are saved, you will never stumble. Armenians take this to mean, if you DO stumble it isn't Gods fault. He gives
you the ability. The word "stumbling" is taken several different ways. Does it simply mean "sin", or does it mean "falling away". In any case, even
if we do fail. Jesus is able to let us stand before the throne "blameless".

One of the more eloquent endings of a chapter in my opinion...

... to the ONLY God (there is no other).... through Jesus Christ our Lord.... be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority.... now and forever. Amen!
 
Active
Matt 10:3; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;
Am I missing something here in following your story?
Which James is Jesus's half-brother?
James the son of Alphaeus? Or, James, the son of Zebedee? (and brother to John)
Both these James are ascribed fathers none of whom appear to be Joseph ....
 
Loyal
Am I missing something here in following your story?
Which James is Jesus's half-brother?
James the son of Alphaeus? Or, James, the son of Zebedee? (and brother to John)
Both these James are ascribed fathers none of whom appear to be Joseph ....
Many Bible scholars believe Mary re-married.
 
Active
Many Bible scholars believe Mary re-married.
That's rather speculative.
We do not know when Joseph died - well I don't know.
If Mary the mother of Jesus remarried where is this in the scriptures?
Why would not Jesus' siblings all be sired by Joseph?
 
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