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He's in control

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The very first words God chooses to say to us demonstrates that he is in control of the universe. Read on...

Science expresses the universe in five terms: -time, -space, -matter, -power, and -motion. Genesis perfectly revealed such truths to the Hebrews in 1450 B.C.

"In the beginning [time] God created [power] the heaven [space] and the earth [matter]...And the Spirit of God moved [motion] upon the face of the waters." Gen 1:1,2.

AMEN!
 
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b'reshit bara 'elohim et-ha-eretz v-et-ha-shama'im

in the beginning of the creating, elohim made the heavens and the earth.

let's get the first word translated right please.
 
Member
My bible (KJV) states...
Genisis 1:1-2

"1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."


(NKJV) states...

" 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[a] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters."

New International Reader Version

" 1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth didn't have any shape. And it was empty. Darkness was over the surface of the ocean. At that time, the ocean covered the earth. The Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."

In all 3 versions, the context is exactly the same, and illistrates time, space, matter, power, and motion. Which is precisely what this thread is about. What are you saying exactly? I'm truely unclear about that.

God bless,
Nigh
 
Administrator
Staff Member
shekinah said:
b'reshit bara 'elohim et-ha-eretz v-et-ha-shama'im

in the beginning of the creating, elohim made the heavens and the earth.

let's get the first word translated right please.
How about explaining what "first word" your referring to? I see nothing here to understand your post whatsoever. Then again, the first POST was entirely in english so whatever your trying to translate into hebrew is beyond me as I do not speak that language.

I hope to hear from you
 
Member
I'm not translating into hebrew, I'm translating OUT OF hebrew. I took my trusty BHS, and then transliterated cos there are no hebrew characters here.

Personally, I'm not exactly fussed about the language the KJV was using, they went through a fair few steps to get from original text to funky english translation. The idea behind the first word of the text of Genesis (b'reshit for those who either don't remember or who don't want to scroll up) (although debated cos we're not 100% certain of all of the pretty little vowels) is "at the beginning of the creating". Now I'm not disputing that that has something to do with time. I'm not arguing. I'm stating my opinion, and the opinion of a whole load of other people, that the translation is wrong. I thought the point of being here was to get as close to biblical truth as possible.
 
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Staff Member
In your opinion, how do you perhaps expect to translate the original hebrew into non "funky" english? Now, we're talking hebrew from 2,000+ years ago into today's english, or even 500+ years ago (KJV time).

Its just not that simple. Please keep in mind to that when speaking "opinions" do not assume the opinion of a 'whole load of other people'. They will speak their own.

"I thought the point of being here was to get as close to biblical truth as possible."

And? This is true, you thought correct. However, what is the point your making here? Are we who appreciate the KJV as The Word in English format against Truth? If I a mistaking your point, forgive me. I'm simply going by your text as I see it that is all.
 
Member
Well, I guess (hope), peple would want to familiarise themselves with some of the original texts. If not all of them, then perhaps the more pertinent ones.

I'm not assuming the opinion of a "whole load of other people", perhaps I should have worded it better and said, "a large number of highly respected theologians and linguists also hold this opinion". They have spoken on their own, I'm telling you what they said.

And the point I'm making about Biblical truth, and this might just be me, but getting close to the truth means going as close to the origianl source as possible. Like Chinese Whispers. If you want to know what person 1 said, ask them, or if you can't, person 2. Don't go straight to person number 37 and hope they're still on message. If you like KJV, or NKJV, or REB, or any version of the Bible you fancy, that's fine. But when someone comes along and says "hey original text, whoot!" don't assume that your person number 37 is more accurate than their person number 1 or 2.
 
Administrator
Staff Member
I understand now better what your saying and I appreciate you humbly making your point clear. Now regarding your idea about going to number 1 or 2 instead of 37, let's keep in mind that GOD guides us and convicts us through His Holy Spirit. So remember that no one lacks when they read KJV or NIV or any of the better modern translations in English today than they will the original Hebrew. GOD is with each person who seeks and asks for wisdom. Let's not forget, the Word is Holy Spirit inspired 100%

Also, let's not forget that majority of the people do not have access (and likely time in many cases) to study Hebrew. Its just a natural way of life. For me for example, I have no time to study Hebrew but I can't express enough of how filled with the Holy Spirit I have been reading ESV, NIV, NKJV the past 4 years I've been saved. GOD has granted me wisdom as I ask for it each and every day.

No one has authority to discard or disregard any bit of the modern translations. It is the Holy Spirit who inspired the original Word and guides each step of the devoted believers who GOD put in charge to translate to English in simpler understandable format for today's people.

God bless
 
Member
Brothers,
Both of you make clear and solid arguments. (although I lean on the Holy Spirit inspired understanding of Gods word..that's how he works for me. I'm convinced that if Dr. Suess wrote a version of the Bible, the Holy Spirit would still grant me understanding of Gods word when reading it.)

But that behind, why did you make your original post if you knew that the context/understanding was there? Which you addmited in your second post...
"Now I'm not disputing that that has something to do with time. I'm not arguing."
If you are going to go through each and every post logged on the Talk Jesus forums and 'retranslate' using the opinions of
"of highly respected theologians and linguists"
, you are going to be very busy, and probably won't have much time to study Hebrew much anymore. I'm just confused why you chose my post out of all the posts here at TJ.

Forgive me brother if I seem a little defensive, for I am called to test these things, and in light of the numerous attacks (both spiritualy, and digitally) aimed at Talk Jesus, it's members, and administrators...I am understandably a little trigger happy. It could be that this was perfectly harmless, and I'm overeacting. It could be that you are here to cause strife and division. If it is the latter, then...
1). I doubt that your next post would be to admit to it, and...
2). You will fail. We've been through this before, and in his grace, the Almighty Heavenly Father, faithful to his followers, continues to shed light in the darkness and give wisdom to all who ask for it.

With that being said, I bring it full circle to my original post...
"He is in control" Amen

May God continue to bless you,
Nigh
 
Member
" I'm convinced that if Dr. Suess wrote a version of the Bible, the Holy Spirit would still grant me understanding of Gods word when reading it."

Oh man Brother that's great! lol You know how the Who's were able to come out and sing together even after their Christmas had been stolen is a great message.Even in a seculure sence.
 
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