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BCRE8TVE

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
63
Hello everyone, my name is Alex, nice to meet you!

A bit about myself: First and foremost, I'd like to say that I am an atheist, but I respect 100% the people's right to beliefs, and will not try to preach, (de)convert, argue, debate, or any of that.

I am here simply because I wish to understand. Here's why.

I was raised in a catholic family in Ontario, Canada. My mother was religious in that we went to church two to three times a month. We would say a prayer before supper, but other than that, religion was never a huge influence in my family life.

I went in catholic schools, from grade 4 'till grade 12. We would sing the national anthem, and being a catholic school board, there would be a prayer every morning. We had religious activities around Easter, Christmas and all that, and since the school was literally right next to the church, that's were most of these activities happened. We even ended up going a few extra times during the year to celebrate the spirit of Christ (I suppose, I never really knew why we went).

Now for me, most of this stuff was just something I had to do, I would go along with it. To me going to church was just the same as answering when someone said good morning to you, or that you had to shake a stranger's hand when you met him. It was simply the way things were.

I never truly believed. To me, it was just some sort of big complicated story for adults, and I frankly didn't see the point in it. But I went along with it, because that's what was expected. I had been baptized, I had my first communion, my confirmation, etc, mostly just because everyone else was doing it.

And then I was in university. I am currently in my second year now, and last year while wandering on the internet (don't listen to what they tell you by the way, a student's main occupation is not studying, it's procrastinating! :p ) I found out two special things.

There were other people out there who didn't believe. There was a name for them. They were atheists. And I read up on atheism, what it was, and was surprised to find out I had been an atheist all along and had never known it!

Now this might not have had much impact on my life at all if I hadn't also found out something else. Those big complicated stories for grown-ups, the tales and the Gospels and the Psalms I had never understood, people really and truly believed that! And that astounded me! I had never ever thought people could seriously believe in it and devote so much of their time to their religion.

And from then on it has sparked my interest to meet different people, people of different faiths, to discus with them. I have had some luck with some christian chat rooms, but the chatroom wasn't very well structured for debates or serious discussions. I recently talked with an Ahmadiyya Muslim man, and our discussion was very interesting. Notice I did not debate him.

And so, in my quest for understanding faith and all its different beliefs, I have now found myself here. I figured that if I wanted to ask questions about why people believed and how it affected their lives, the best I could do would go directly to the source!


I do not know if this section is the appropriate one for discussions or if it is strictly used to meet and greet new users, but I will probably start another thread elsewhere for my questions.

I will however state my goals.
-I do not wish to argue. I find it rude of people who tell others 'You're wrong' just because they have differing opinions. I have my opinion, you have yours.
-However, I will correct you if I think you are mistaken about a certain subject such as evolution or atheism. I do not mean to be rude, simply to dispel misconceptions.
-This does not mean I will be rude in doing so. People are people are people. Be they religious or not, there will be smart and less smart individuals on both sides of the fence. I realize this and will not be prejudiced, by not posting comments of the kind 'Duh, the stopid theists got evolution wrong again hurr durr'. I respect each and every person I meet, unless that person proves to me he or she is not worthy of respect.
-I want to promote open debate as much as possible. Feel free to ask me anything you would like, and do not feel obliged in the slightest to answer all my questions. I understand to some religious beliefs are an intensely private matter, and I respect that.
-Feel free to tell me where I am wrong and why. I do not want to do mistakes, I want to learn from them to avoid doing them again. I do not want to spread misinformation, but to learn from real data.

In the end, the reason why I am here is to ask a few questions, such as:
-Why do you believe?
-What do your beliefs do for you?
-How did you come to believe?
-How/why did you accept Christianity (or denomination)?

I have never believed myself, and I am here as a humble student wishing to learn from the experiences of others, experiences I may never experience myself.

Thank you, that is all.

Live long and prosper!
 
Welcome!!!!

Welcome to the community BCRE8TVE.Glad to have you here with us. Hope you find all that you seek here on TJ. Blessings in Christ.

-Why do you believe?
I believe because to not believe is to deny my own existence and I believe because i was blessed enough to be given a chance to do so.
-What do your beliefs do for you?
My believes give me hope and comfort that nothing else can.
-How did you come to believe?
Like you i too was raised in a (Roman) Catholic family. Also like you my family going to church was just another activity, but my grandfather was a very religious man and he helped me to see that strong belief that he had and i still hold on to that belief dearly even after he passed away.
There was not a specific time for me when i just 'came' to believe. But as i got older of course with the world we live in there are things that get in my way and i do experience times when my eyes just open and I'm amazed all over again and it's to me like a renewal of faith all over again, and my belief becomes stronger.

-How/why did you accept Christianity (or denomination)?
How and why? Hmm well the faith was kind of 'handed' to me and i couldn't object to it. Before i knew it i was swiped along and i just found myself keep asking for more and more.
Perhaps it was because I just had no way to object to it because i had no foundation and i needed a strong foundation. My faith became that firm foundation for me and i became dependent on it and never looked back because for me it's better to have a strong foundation that wavers at times then to have no foundation at all.


I see no wrong in someone wishing to learn or hear other peoples opinions and I'm also here for that.
I do hope my answers have given a bit of an insight.

Be blessed.
 
Welcome aboard my atheist friend! I once walked in your shoes.


In the end, the reason why I am here is to ask a few questions, such as:
-Why do you believe?

Because God reveled himself to me.

-What do your beliefs do for you?

My faith is the substance of what I hope for, the evidence of the things I cannot see. My faith drives me to be like Christ and to please the Father in heaven who created you and I. My faith is a gift from God that has completely remodeled my life inside and out.

-How did you come to believe?

Very long story. In a nutshell, it boils down to God revealing himself to me little by little. I would muse over what little he had given me and accept it as truth. He would give me more. Until one day when he revealed to my heart that Jesus Christ was his beloved Son and he gave me the opportunity to join his family. As unworthy as I am, I received Christ as my Lord and God as my Father. I have since been growing in the grace of the God who loves me as his son.

-How/why did you accept Christianity (or denomination)?

Accepting a denomination has been all but impossible for me as they are full of heresy driven by their human desires to continue to live life to the fullest here serving themselves while giving God but a day each week in hope that he might receive them to everlasting habitations.

I would be more than happy to talk with you at length. If you are in the states I can make myself available by telephone. If you live within driving distance, we can have coffee.

Peace from God our Father unto you his offspring,

Gary
 
Thanks skipbeat!

Thanks you for sharing a bit of your story with me! I will post a different thread with my questions so that more may answer, if they wish. Feel free to post there too!

How and why? Hmm well the faith was kind of 'handed' to me and i couldn't object to it. Before i knew it i was swiped along and i just found myself keep asking for more and more.
Perhaps it was because I just had no way to object to it because i had no foundation and i needed a strong foundation. My faith became that firm foundation for me and i became dependent on it and never looked back because for me it's better to have a strong foundation that wavers at times then to have no foundation at all.
Please bear with me here, I am unaccustomed to how Christians react to atheists, I don't mean to sound rude here, but I simply wish to point out that just because atheists don't believe in God doesn't mean they have no foundation. Like I said, I'm an atheist, and while here I will try to dispel misconceptions as mush as I can.

Yes, your answers have given me insight, thank you!
On the other hand, isn't it odd to bless an atheist? :p







Hello gdemoss! I would very much like to hear your testimony! I have not heard of many atheists who converted to, well, any religion.

Because God reveled himself to me.
May I ask how? I'm very curious, I have no idea how conversions work towards religion.

Very long story.
I love long stories :) I would be honoured if you'd share it with me. I do understand however if it's something very private, you do not have to tell me about it.

Accepting a denomination has been all but impossible for me as they are full of heresy driven by their human desires to continue to live life to the fullest here serving themselves while giving God but a day each week in hope that he might receive them to everlasting habitations.
That sort of resumes my opinion also. Too many people are in it for heaven, and not to try to make this world a better place for all, to be kind and altruistic. However, to some, living to the fullest means for example going to build houses and schools in third-world countries. To others, it means parachute jumping. Some help more, some help less. To me, so long as they help others more than they are selfish, it is good.

I would be more than happy to talk with you at length. If you are in the states I can make myself available by telephone. If you live within driving distance, we can have coffee.
I would be very happy to talk at length also!
And if you feel like it, you could come drive all the way up here! It's currently snowing in Ontario, Canada though, so I think it might be a very long and unpleasant drive :p
 
Hello gdemoss! I would very much like to hear your testimony! I have not heard of many atheists who converted to, well, any religion.

An atheist is actually easier to convince that their is a God for God than one who believes something of a deity. Atheists are those who have completely reasoned God out of existence as a possibility. Since God is God and isn't limited to natural law or understanding, he is able to give the tools necessary to people like me to offer people like you a chance to see him as he is in truth.


May I ask how? I'm very curious, I have no idea how conversions work towards religion.

All religions are based upon the truth. All of them that are false have at least one error that causes them to be incomplete and useless to the follower.

The reason for the existence of religion is the call of God to his creation and their subsequent responses. Atheists are among some of the smartest people on the planet. Their high intellect gives them the ability to explain most everything logically without considering for a moment that they are wrong.

God capitalizes on this apparent strength which is really a weakness and beings to make foolish the wisdom of the wise ones. He lovingly breaks them down until their is a point come where the atheist can no longer completely rely on his intellect and during a moment of weakness calls out to God for help. The door is opened. God walks in. Since God is God he cannot bow down to the intellect of man or else man is then in control of God. God must always maintain his position of authority.

In this manner, he got me and I love him so much for breaking me.



I love long stories :) I would be honoured if you'd share it with me. I do understand however if it's something very private, you do not have to tell me about it.

Maybe at another time if the Lord permit.

That sort of resumes my opinion also. Too many people are in it for heaven, and not to try to make this world a better place for all, to be kind and altruistic. However, to some, living to the fullest means for example going to build houses and schools in third-world countries. To others, it means parachute jumping. Some help more, some help less. To me, so long as they help others more than they are selfish, it is good.

Thank you for not just assuming a meaning behind everything that I have said. Yes, living life to the fullest can be seen in many different lights. I am speaking of it from the perspective of a true believer in Christ. I don't know how familiar you are with the bible but it speaks volumes on what is expected of us who are here that are following him in hope of eternal life. I would suggest you read my thread on Eden to get an idea of how I understand the problem we find ourselves in today.



I would be very happy to talk at length also!
And if you feel like it, you could come drive all the way up here! It's currently snowing in Ontario, Canada though, so I think it might be a very long and unpleasant drive :p

I promise you that if it is in the Lords will that you and I have a face to face encounter, there is nothing that will stop it from happening. He works all things to the council of his own will. I would enjoy the time too.

Praying that God will prepare you for him to manifest himself unto you,

Gary
 
Welcome to TJ, BCRE8TVE!

I am glad that God has brought you here and that I may have an opportunity to answer some of your queries. I'll try not to go into a lot of detail, as this is just a welcome thread, and my purpose is not to debate you here. I will be glad to chat with you on other threads though, or privately if need be.

You asked :

-Why do you believe?
Because God has revealed himself to me. And I know you don't understand this, because the conundrum is, until you surrender to Christ you will never know or experience Him. Until you experience His power and ability to change lives, you won't understand what others with changed lives are experiencing. Until you ask Him to reveal Himself in a personal way, he never will. He has already revealed Himself to us through His creation though.

Plus - and I know that some atheists don't like to hear this -
The astounding complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

Conversely, to deny that, is to believe in an equally astounding number of coincidences, not only about our Earth but about the whole cosmos!

-What do your beliefs do for you?
Well, without listing any scripture (that may be for another time and place) they do many things. I am assured by faith that my Lord has and is working out His plan for me. And that although I am in an upside down world, He will never forsake me and nothing can come between His love for me. He puts peace in my heart, in a world where there is no peace.
I am assured by the One who cannot lie that I am righteous in His eyes and that in Christ there is no condemnation in me. A lot of people don't like themselves and are saddled by enormous guilt, heartache, pain, etc. We condemn ourselves when we don't turn to the Savior that sets us free.
Because there is no condemnation in me, I can face life without fear or trepidation. I don't need drugs, or alcohol, or pornography or any of the crutches that people need to "get by" and cope in life.

Yes, it is not just Christians that have "crutches". Everyone has them, so when an atheist poses the ubiquitous question to a Christian, "isn't your belief just a crutch?" The proper question is not, "do you have a crutch?' but, "can your crutch hold you up"?

My crutch, if that's what one wants to call it, can hold, sustain and keep me. I could go on, but for brevity sake I will try to move along to your other questions. Sorry, I am not meaning to be long-winded, but you asked, so I hope you can bear with me a little longer!

-How did you come to believe?
I heard the gospel message and eventually surrendered my pride and asked God to come into my life. Or more accurately, by allowing myself to listen just a little bit more whenever God would speak to my heart. And God is very patient and long-suffering with all of us, so He calls us many times in our lives. We're just very good at shutting him out, by being wrapped up in all the useless cares of the world that don't amount to much in the end.

So on a more specific level, after a long time of doing my own thing and finding that it never did or can satisfy, I broke down and called on the Lord. Everything in this life is temporal and I found that nothing can fill the emptiness, the God-shaped vacuum in our hearts. If that was not so, millionaires wouldn't be committing suicide.

I had no real and lasting peace in my life, so I called on the Prince of Peace. I had no real hope of anything of meaning, so I called on the Lord, who gives me hope for too many things to list here!

-How/why did you accept Christianity (or denomination)?
The answer to why, is partly contained in my other answers, and isn't easy to answer in a simple question and answer format. But I'll try. Why I accepted Christianity is, once I asked God to reveal Himself to me He did. He offered me the free gift of His love, forgiveness and salvation. And the more I trusted Him, the more He revealed Himself to me. And the more I submitted to Him, the more He gave of Himself to me. His love is irresistable once you experience it! You just want more of it!

I have not chosen any denomination, as I am interested in a relationship with Jesus Christ, not a relationship with a religious denomination.
Hope this helped, and I wish you the best as you interact with us on this forum!



 
Thanks skipbeat!

Thanks you for sharing a bit of your story with me! I will post a different thread with my questions so that more may answer, if they wish. Feel free to post there too!

Please bear with me here, I am unaccustomed to how Christians react to atheists, I don't mean to sound rude here, but I simply wish to point out that just because atheists don't believe in God doesn't mean they have no foundation. Like I said, I'm an atheist, and while here I will try to dispel misconceptions as mush as I can.

Yes, your answers have given me insight, thank you!
On the other hand, isn't it odd to bless an atheist? :p

No worry i was actually referring to myself when i spoke of foundation there:wink:. It wasn't referring to you or atheists. I find no difference in anyone . I bless anyone and it's up to them to decide if they want to be blessed are rather not be.
 
Gary,

An atheist is actually easier to convince that their is a God for God than one who believes something of a deity. Atheists are those who have completely reasoned God out of existence as a possibility. Since God is God and isn't limited to natural law or understanding, he is able to give the tools necessary to people like me to offer people like you a chance to see him as he is in truth.
I have not reasoned God out of existence, I have simply not encountered any convincing argument for God's existence, neither of any good argument why I should believe in such a supreme being.


The reason for the existence of religion is the call of God to his creation and their subsequent responses. Atheists are among some of the smartest people on the planet. Their high intellect gives them the ability to explain most everything logically without considering for a moment that they are wrong.
Only arrogant people never think for a moment that they are wrong. I constantly wonder if I am wrong, and always seek to adjust my beliefs and values if ever I find out that I was indeed wrong.

God capitalizes on this apparent strength which is really a weakness and beings to make foolish the wisdom of the wise ones. He lovingly breaks them down until their is a point come where the atheist can no longer completely rely on his intellect and during a moment of weakness calls out to God for help. The door is opened. God walks in. Since God is God he cannot bow down to the intellect of man or else man is then in control of God. God must always maintain his position of authority.
I find it an interesting expression, 'lovingly breaks them down'. It struck me as very unusual. I am not sure I understand exactly what you mean here. Breaking down a person's pride and confidence in his intellect, to show that person that something exists outside what his intellect might have allowed him? In that case, I do not have excessive pride in my own intellect, for I know many people are much smarter than I am. I also do not deny god's existence, I merely wonder what difference does it make, realistically.

Maybe at another time if the Lord permit.
No problem. I will also be starting another thread entitled 'Questions for Christians' sometimes in the near future, feel free to post there if you wish!

Thank you for not just assuming a meaning behind everything that I have said. Yes, living life to the fullest can be seen in many different lights. I am speaking of it from the perspective of a true believer in Christ. I don't know how familiar you are with the bible but it speaks volumes on what is expected of us who are here that are following him in hope of eternal life. I would suggest you read my thread on Eden to get an idea of how I understand the problem we find ourselves in today.
No problem! How can I expect intellectual integrity and honesty of the others if I don't act that way myself?
Also, I am not very familiar with the bible, the most I have done was reading a children illustrated bible when I was around 10 (I am now 19).
Could you provide me the link? I am not sure where to look in this forum.

I promise you that if it is in the Lords will that you and I have a face to face encounter, there is nothing that will stop it from happening. He works all things to the council of his own will. I would enjoy the time too.
I was mostly joking when I said that you know :p There are easier ways to have face to face conversations also than driving across half the continent :p





Peace Seeker

I am glad that God has brought you here and that I may have an opportunity to answer some of your queries. I'll try not to go into a lot of detail, as this is just a welcome thread, and my purpose is not to debate you here. I will be glad to chat with you on other threads though, or privately if need be.
Thank you! You may go into as many details as you wish, however I will start a thread entitled 'Questions for Christians' some time soon with these very questions as the main subject. On a side note, do you know where such a topic would best fit? I'm unfamiliar with this site's organization. The Ethics channel maybe?

Because God has revealed himself to me. And I know you don't understand this, because the conundrum is, until you surrender to Christ you will never know or experience Him. Until you experience His power and ability to change lives, you won't understand what others with changed lives are experiencing. Until you ask Him to reveal Himself in a personal way, he never will. He has already revealed Himself to us through His creation though.
I had never thought about it that way. I may never experience Christ until I submit myself to him. Perhaps the closest I'll ever come would be the testimonies from Christians such as yourself. I am mostly trying to understand why people believe though, I am not here with the express purpose of being converted.

Plus - and I know that some atheists don't like to hear this -
The astounding complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

Conversely, to deny that, is to believe in an equally astounding number of coincidences, not only about our Earth but about the whole cosmos!
Ah. That argument. When I was young, I always wanted to know how everything worked, and why. What I didn't know or understand, I read up on. I always knew I would some day grow up to be a scientist. And everywhere I read, in every explanation of how the world was the way it was, god never fit anywhere. God was not needed anywhere. In every equation, adding in god served to just add a useless parameter. 2 + 2 + god = 4, one could simply remove god and it would make no difference in the physical world. I have however not encountered any argument demonstrating how or why god was sustaining our universe today though.
As for the coincidences, yes, it is an astounding amount of coincidences. However, when one rolls a dice, is it a coincidence that a particular roll lands on a 6? Is is a coincidence that the average is exactly 3.5? No, it's all probabilities. The 'coincidences' that occurred simply had a higher statistical probability of occurring than either other 'coincidences', or of those 'coincidences' not happening at all.

Well, without listing any scripture (that may be for another time and place) they do many things. I am assured by faith that my Lord has and is working out His plan for me. And that although I am in an upside down world, He will never forsake me and nothing can come between His love for me. He puts peace in my heart, in a world where there is no peace.
I am assured by the One who cannot lie that I am righteous in His eyes and that in Christ there is no condemnation in me. A lot of people don't like themselves and are saddled by enormous guilt, heartache, pain, etc. We condemn ourselves when we don't turn to the Savior that sets us free.
I would simply like to point out that many are also riddled with guilt and shame because they are told they are unworthy sinners in the eyes of god. That may not be the main purpose of religion, but it goes both ways.

Because there is no condemnation in me, I can face life without fear or trepidation. I don't need drugs, or alcohol, or pornography or any of the crutches that people need to "get by" and cope in life.
If religion makes you a stronger person, then so much the better! Lead a happy life, and make this world a better place for everyone! :)

Yes, it is not just Christians that have "crutches". Everyone has them, so when an atheist poses the ubiquitous question to a Christian, "isn't your belief just a crutch?" The proper question is not, "do you have a crutch?' but, "can your crutch hold you up"?
I had never thought of it in terms of a crutch. I suppose it makes sense. In a way there is nothing bad with crutches, they are tools to help you stand up on your own. Arrogant atheists might mean crutch implying that there is something debilitating about religion, but I would disagree with them.

My crutch, if that's what one wants to call it, can hold, sustain and keep me. I could go on, but for brevity sake I will try to move along to your other questions. Sorry, I am not meaning to be long-winded, but you asked, so I hope you can bear with me a little longer!
No problem at all! You can be as long-winded as you wish, I will read it all!
My own crutch, if you will, does not hold me up, sustain me, or keep me. It does however help me see how to hold myself up, to sustain myself, and to see what additional crutches I do need or don't need.

I heard the gospel message and eventually surrendered my pride and asked God to come into my life. Or more accurately, by allowing myself to listen just a little bit more whenever God would speak to my heart. And God is very patient and long-suffering with all of us, so He calls us many times in our lives. We're just very good at shutting him out, by being wrapped up in all the useless cares of the world that don't amount to much in the end.
The thing is, I am not consciously trying to shut God out, I genuinely wonder what He would be telling me, and either way, even if He did speak to me, I am not sure I would recognize Him.

So on a more specific level, after a long time of doing my own thing and finding that it never did or can satisfy, I broke down and called on the Lord. Everything in this life is temporal and I found that nothing can fill the emptiness, the God-shaped vacuum in our hearts. If that was not so, millionaires wouldn't be committing suicide.
I have never understood the Go-shaped hole in the heart thing. I have also come to understand that everything was temporary, that one day I would die, and that would be the end of it. It doesn't fill me with sadness, it fills me with wonder, at the cycle of life and death.
Also, millionaires can commit suicide just as much as poor people. Having money doesn't mean one has a fulfilling life, any more than lack of money means your life isn't fulfilling either. Money has nothing to do with it.

I have not chosen any denomination, as I am interested in a relationship with Jesus Christ, not a relationship with a religious denomination.
Fair enough. I never really understood denominations myself either, having not really cared about religion much before finding out I was an atheist. To me there were Christians and Muslims and Hindus and others, and it wasn't especially important.
I do see what you mean by relationship with Jesus.

Hope this helped, and I wish you the best as you interact with us on this forum!
Yes it did, and thank you very much!





Skipbeat


No worry i was actually referring to myself when i spoke of foundation there. It wasn't referring to you or atheists.
Ah, ok, sorry. I just wanted to clear a possible misunderstanding!

I find no difference in anyone . I bless anyone and it's up to them to decide if they want to be blessed are rather not be.
Ah, ok! I was just wondering, is all! Thanks for blessing
me regardless!
 
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