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Hebrew Roots Cult!
Member
"To Christians, the central tenet of their religion is the belief that Jesus is the Son of God, part of the trinity, the savior of souls who is the messiah. He is God's revelation through flesh. Jesus was, in Christian terms, God incarnate, God in the flesh who came to Earth to absorb the sins of humans and therefore free from sin those who accepted his divinity. To Jews, whatever wonderful teacher and storyteller Jesus may have been, he was just a human, not the son of God (except in the metaphorical sense in which all humans are children of God). In the Jewish view, Jesus cannot save souls; only God can. Jesus did not, in the Jewish view, rise from the dead." the Hebrew Roots Movement Hate I have to say it again Hate the apostle Pauls teaching!!
Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9–11)
“Every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord” — declared in Greek, what was then the lingua franca of the civilized world. The word tongue in Greek, γλώσσα or glōssa, could also refer to language, as with the Latin lingua, and as we continue to use tongue in English. Was “every tongue” to confess the Lord, but only as Yeshua? Plainly not: in that very sentence, Paul hails Him as Jesus in Greek.
Arguing that only “Yeshua,” or any other rendition of the name, is the correct and proper address for our Lord, denies the entire received Christian tradition, the handing down of the faith to every people as the Apostles and their spiritual descendants have done. Just as the Greek people received the name of the Lord as Ἰησοῦς, the English people received Him as Jesus, the Spanish as Jesús, and so forth:When the Apostle Paul, the first great missionary, carried the Gospel of Christ beyond Judea and Palestine, he carried His name not as Yeshua but as Ἰησοῦς. The name Iesus is a natural transliteration of the Greek name into Latin, and thence, with the translation of the Bible into English, Jesus.
I have found that many Christians believe that if a congregation calls itself “Messianic” that the pastor, or in this case they call themselves “rabbis” are ethnic Jews. This is just not true. Of course there are some of these rabbis who are truly ethnic Jews, but that is not the norm. Many congregations just assume that the rabbi is a Jew. This is deceptive.
But also there is no reason for a Gentile believer to elevate an ethnic Jewish believer above any other Christian. We are all part of the body of Christ!
The Hebrew Roots assemblies are often made up of a majority of Gentiles, including Gentile rabbis. Usually they prefer to be identified as “Messianic Christians.” Many have come to the conclusion that God has “called” them to be Jewish and have accepted the theological position that the Torah (Old Testament law) is equally binding on Gentiles and Jews alike. They often wear articles of traditional Jewish clothing, practice Davidic dancing, and incorporate Hebrew names and phrases into their writing and conversations. Most reject the use of the name “Jesus” in favor of Yeshua or YHWH, claiming that these are the “true” names that God desires for Himself. In most cases, they elevate the Torah as the foundational teaching for the Church, which brings about the demotion of the New Testament, causing it to become secondary in importance and only to be understood in light of the Old Testament. The idea that the New Testament is faulty and relevant only in light of the Old Testament has also brought the doctrine of the Trinity under attack by many advocates of the Hebrew Roots beliefs.
As opposed to what the Hebrew Roots movement claims, the New Testament teachings of the Apostle Paul are perfectly clear and self-explanatory. Colossians 2:16,17 says, “Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day – things which are a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.” Romans 14:5 states, “One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.” Scripture clearly indicates that these issues are a matter of personal choice. These verses and many others give clear evidence that the Mosaic Covenant laws and ordinances have ended. Continuing to teach that the Old Covenant is still in effect in spite of what the New Testament teaches, or twisting the New Testament to agree with the Hebrew Roots beliefs, is false teaching.
There are aspects of the Hebrew Roots teachings that certainly can be beneficial. Seeking to explore the Jewish culture and perspective, within which most of the Bible was written, opens and enriches our understanding of the Scriptures, adding insight and depth to many of the passages, parables and idioms. There is nothing wrong with Gentiles and Jews joining together in celebrating the feasts and enjoying a Messianic style of worship. Taking part in these events and learning the way in which the Jews understood the teachings of our Lord can be a tool, giving us greater effectiveness in reaching the unbelieving Jew with the gospel. It is good for Gentiles, in the body of the Messiah, to identify in our fellowship with Israel. However, to identify with Israel is different from identifying “as” Israel.
Gentile believers are not grafted into the Judaism of the Mosaic Covenant; they are grafted into the seed and faith of Abraham, which preceded the Law and Jewish customs. They are fellow citizens with the saints (Ephesians 2:19), but they are not Jews. Paul explains this clearly when he tells those who were circumcised (the Jews) “not to seek to be uncircumcised” and those who were uncircumcised (the Gentiles) “not to become circumcised” (1 Corinthians 7:18). There is no need for either group to feel they must become what they are not. Instead, God has made Jews and Gentiles into “one new man” in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2:15). This “new man” is referring to the Church, the body of Christ, which is made up of neither Jew nor Gentile (Galatians 3:27-29). It’s important for Jews and Gentiles to remain authentic in their own identity. In this way a clear picture of the unity of the body of Christ can be seen as Jews and Gentiles are united by one Lord, one faith, one baptism. If Gentiles are grafted into Israel, becoming Jews, the purpose and picture of both Jew and Gentile, coming together as one new man, is lost. God never intended Gentiles to become one in Israel, but one in Christ.
The influence of this movement is working its way into our churches and seminaries. It’s dangerous in its implication that keeping the Old Covenant law is walking a “higher path” and is the only way to please God and receive His blessings. Nowhere in the Bible do we find Gentile believers being instructed to follow Levitical laws or Jewish customs; in fact, the opposite is taught. Romans 7:6 says, “But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.” Christ, in keeping perfectly every ordinance of the Mosaic Law, completely fulfilled it. Just as making the final payment on a home fulfills that contract and ends one’s obligation to it, so also Christ has made the final payment and has fulfilled the law, bringing it to an end for us all.
the apostle Paul was a false prophet and not a true follower of Christ is usually put forth by those of the Hebrew roots movement persuasion, among others. They believe Christians should submit to the Old Testament Law, but Paul clearly disagrees with them, proclaiming that Christians are no longer under the Mosaic Law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15), but the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). Rather than submitting to God’s Word, the Hebrew roots movement simply dismisses Paul altogether and claims that Paul was a false apostle and that his writings should not be in the Bible. They Hate>>Hate the apostle Pauls teaching!
Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9–11)
“Every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord” — declared in Greek, what was then the lingua franca of the civilized world. The word tongue in Greek, γλώσσα or glōssa, could also refer to language, as with the Latin lingua, and as we continue to use tongue in English. Was “every tongue” to confess the Lord, but only as Yeshua? Plainly not: in that very sentence, Paul hails Him as Jesus in Greek.
Arguing that only “Yeshua,” or any other rendition of the name, is the correct and proper address for our Lord, denies the entire received Christian tradition, the handing down of the faith to every people as the Apostles and their spiritual descendants have done. Just as the Greek people received the name of the Lord as Ἰησοῦς, the English people received Him as Jesus, the Spanish as Jesús, and so forth:When the Apostle Paul, the first great missionary, carried the Gospel of Christ beyond Judea and Palestine, he carried His name not as Yeshua but as Ἰησοῦς. The name Iesus is a natural transliteration of the Greek name into Latin, and thence, with the translation of the Bible into English, Jesus.
I have found that many Christians believe that if a congregation calls itself “Messianic” that the pastor, or in this case they call themselves “rabbis” are ethnic Jews. This is just not true. Of course there are some of these rabbis who are truly ethnic Jews, but that is not the norm. Many congregations just assume that the rabbi is a Jew. This is deceptive.
But also there is no reason for a Gentile believer to elevate an ethnic Jewish believer above any other Christian. We are all part of the body of Christ!
The Hebrew Roots assemblies are often made up of a majority of Gentiles, including Gentile rabbis. Usually they prefer to be identified as “Messianic Christians.” Many have come to the conclusion that God has “called” them to be Jewish and have accepted the theological position that the Torah (Old Testament law) is equally binding on Gentiles and Jews alike. They often wear articles of traditional Jewish clothing, practice Davidic dancing, and incorporate Hebrew names and phrases into their writing and conversations. Most reject the use of the name “Jesus” in favor of Yeshua or YHWH, claiming that these are the “true” names that God desires for Himself. In most cases, they elevate the Torah as the foundational teaching for the Church, which brings about the demotion of the New Testament, causing it to become secondary in importance and only to be understood in light of the Old Testament. The idea that the New Testament is faulty and relevant only in light of the Old Testament has also brought the doctrine of the Trinity under attack by many advocates of the Hebrew Roots beliefs.
As opposed to what the Hebrew Roots movement claims, the New Testament teachings of the Apostle Paul are perfectly clear and self-explanatory. Colossians 2:16,17 says, “Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day – things which are a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.” Romans 14:5 states, “One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.” Scripture clearly indicates that these issues are a matter of personal choice. These verses and many others give clear evidence that the Mosaic Covenant laws and ordinances have ended. Continuing to teach that the Old Covenant is still in effect in spite of what the New Testament teaches, or twisting the New Testament to agree with the Hebrew Roots beliefs, is false teaching.
There are aspects of the Hebrew Roots teachings that certainly can be beneficial. Seeking to explore the Jewish culture and perspective, within which most of the Bible was written, opens and enriches our understanding of the Scriptures, adding insight and depth to many of the passages, parables and idioms. There is nothing wrong with Gentiles and Jews joining together in celebrating the feasts and enjoying a Messianic style of worship. Taking part in these events and learning the way in which the Jews understood the teachings of our Lord can be a tool, giving us greater effectiveness in reaching the unbelieving Jew with the gospel. It is good for Gentiles, in the body of the Messiah, to identify in our fellowship with Israel. However, to identify with Israel is different from identifying “as” Israel.
Gentile believers are not grafted into the Judaism of the Mosaic Covenant; they are grafted into the seed and faith of Abraham, which preceded the Law and Jewish customs. They are fellow citizens with the saints (Ephesians 2:19), but they are not Jews. Paul explains this clearly when he tells those who were circumcised (the Jews) “not to seek to be uncircumcised” and those who were uncircumcised (the Gentiles) “not to become circumcised” (1 Corinthians 7:18). There is no need for either group to feel they must become what they are not. Instead, God has made Jews and Gentiles into “one new man” in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2:15). This “new man” is referring to the Church, the body of Christ, which is made up of neither Jew nor Gentile (Galatians 3:27-29). It’s important for Jews and Gentiles to remain authentic in their own identity. In this way a clear picture of the unity of the body of Christ can be seen as Jews and Gentiles are united by one Lord, one faith, one baptism. If Gentiles are grafted into Israel, becoming Jews, the purpose and picture of both Jew and Gentile, coming together as one new man, is lost. God never intended Gentiles to become one in Israel, but one in Christ.
The influence of this movement is working its way into our churches and seminaries. It’s dangerous in its implication that keeping the Old Covenant law is walking a “higher path” and is the only way to please God and receive His blessings. Nowhere in the Bible do we find Gentile believers being instructed to follow Levitical laws or Jewish customs; in fact, the opposite is taught. Romans 7:6 says, “But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.” Christ, in keeping perfectly every ordinance of the Mosaic Law, completely fulfilled it. Just as making the final payment on a home fulfills that contract and ends one’s obligation to it, so also Christ has made the final payment and has fulfilled the law, bringing it to an end for us all.
the apostle Paul was a false prophet and not a true follower of Christ is usually put forth by those of the Hebrew roots movement persuasion, among others. They believe Christians should submit to the Old Testament Law, but Paul clearly disagrees with them, proclaiming that Christians are no longer under the Mosaic Law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15), but the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). Rather than submitting to God’s Word, the Hebrew roots movement simply dismisses Paul altogether and claims that Paul was a false apostle and that his writings should not be in the Bible. They Hate>>Hate the apostle Pauls teaching!
Last edited by a moderator:
Loyal
I wish you would include a bit more of God and bit less of unsupported prejudicial statements here. Personal attacks are not allowed here and for good reason.
Loyal
I think you should stop generalizing and rather pay attention to what individuals who interacts with you believe. Then it may still be the best thing to simply be silent.
The proper rendition of our Lord's name is in the believer's heart rather than in his mouth alone. In nearly any public place in the United States and likely in other supposedly Christian countries it would not be unusual to hear the word, "Jesus" spoken with very unflattering and even blasphemous meanings and intentions. God is always looking at our hearts. If Jesus is not in our hearts, it does not matter how good our words may sound.
Why all of this negative talk against a group of people? Take people as they are one at a time.
Member
Why all of this negative talk against a group of people? Take people as they are one at a time. >> Why >they are wolfs in wolfs clothing and movement is around more then you think! even on this forum!!> they hate the new testament , they say its corrupted and they hate the apostales and for Paul they have a special hatred for !! Its very intro that some people do not know >>what % of the NT did Paul write???
Paul is traditionally considered to have authored 14 of the 27 books of the New Testament in the Bible. His authorship of seven of the 14 books is universally accepted, but debate remains about the rest and what did Paul preach??? He preached that GodJesus came to this world to set us free from sin and mans traditions, that the blood of the cross is all we need for salvations ! But these vipers want to say that the blood and the death of GodJesus is not nearly enough !!>> making the NT and the death of GodJesus on the cross a sham!! Do not get me wrong I love the jews and Israel >> All Israel will be saved! And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. But I hate vipers that try to come in and preach a different gospel and a diff Christ!
Paul is traditionally considered to have authored 14 of the 27 books of the New Testament in the Bible. His authorship of seven of the 14 books is universally accepted, but debate remains about the rest and what did Paul preach??? He preached that GodJesus came to this world to set us free from sin and mans traditions, that the blood of the cross is all we need for salvations ! But these vipers want to say that the blood and the death of GodJesus is not nearly enough !!>> making the NT and the death of GodJesus on the cross a sham!! Do not get me wrong I love the jews and Israel >> All Israel will be saved! And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. But I hate vipers that try to come in and preach a different gospel and a diff Christ!
Active
Maybe PM the person concerned and ask what they believe about apostle Paul.
I wouldn't jump to conclusions just yet. Paul was apostle to the Gentiles and its well known he was sent away because the jewish people, wouldnt accept that he converted. Even the other disciples did not really 'get' Paul's mission at first. Esp Peter.
I havent seen anything on this forum that is suspect that it would ask anyone whos not jewish to be circumcised.
Maybe there is a sect that is extreme but from what I know is the worst of it is when christians are asked to financially support israel but the money does not really go where its meant to.
My thoughts are (not that my thoughts count for much) that the danger for hebrew believers is if they only waiting for Jesus their messiah to appear in the flesh (when the victory has already been won on the cross 2000 years ago) and bring the kingdom and not realising that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom. Its not an earthly kingdom but a heavenly one. We dont get to it without the cross.
I wouldn't jump to conclusions just yet. Paul was apostle to the Gentiles and its well known he was sent away because the jewish people, wouldnt accept that he converted. Even the other disciples did not really 'get' Paul's mission at first. Esp Peter.
I havent seen anything on this forum that is suspect that it would ask anyone whos not jewish to be circumcised.
Maybe there is a sect that is extreme but from what I know is the worst of it is when christians are asked to financially support israel but the money does not really go where its meant to.
My thoughts are (not that my thoughts count for much) that the danger for hebrew believers is if they only waiting for Jesus their messiah to appear in the flesh (when the victory has already been won on the cross 2000 years ago) and bring the kingdom and not realising that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom. Its not an earthly kingdom but a heavenly one. We dont get to it without the cross.
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Loyal
And who is the "they" on this forum? And if they are actually here, try talking to them or report their wrongful activities to the powers that be here for appropriate action.
Again with the name calling of someone who is apparently not here to defend themselves. If you love the Jews, you have a strange way to expressing it. What is your definition of Christ and how does it differ from "theirs"?
Moderator
Staff Member
@Rant
Open discussions are always welcome. Unfounded accusations on unidentified members are not.
As Brother Amadeus and Sister Lanolin have stated. There are methods in place that will allow you to address certain issues you may have with certain members. PM's or to the Forum Administrator/Moderators.
As I've stated. We can have discussions concerning many subjects, and we may not "all" agree, but always understanding that the Love we have for each other is paramount to any Christian Community of Believers seeking to grow in Christ Jesus and His Word.
We also understand that there are deceptions in the world and many attempts to lead the faithful away by perverting the word of God. Many throughout the years have come here to Talk Jesus and attempted it. Never preferable to showing them through reasoning of Scripture, but when this, with prayer, does not dissuade them from accepting the truth found in the Word of God, they have been deleted as members. They could not be allowed to stay.
We appreciate when a member brings forward a new deception, for Watchmen are surely needed in these darkening days, but unsubstantiated accusations as I have stated in my opening will not be accepted.
You might want to take some time to review our "Statement of Faith" for Talk Jesus.
Talk Jesus - Statement of Faith
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
Moderator
<><
Open discussions are always welcome. Unfounded accusations on unidentified members are not.
As Brother Amadeus and Sister Lanolin have stated. There are methods in place that will allow you to address certain issues you may have with certain members. PM's or to the Forum Administrator/Moderators.
As I've stated. We can have discussions concerning many subjects, and we may not "all" agree, but always understanding that the Love we have for each other is paramount to any Christian Community of Believers seeking to grow in Christ Jesus and His Word.
We also understand that there are deceptions in the world and many attempts to lead the faithful away by perverting the word of God. Many throughout the years have come here to Talk Jesus and attempted it. Never preferable to showing them through reasoning of Scripture, but when this, with prayer, does not dissuade them from accepting the truth found in the Word of God, they have been deleted as members. They could not be allowed to stay.
We appreciate when a member brings forward a new deception, for Watchmen are surely needed in these darkening days, but unsubstantiated accusations as I have stated in my opening will not be accepted.
You might want to take some time to review our "Statement of Faith" for Talk Jesus.
Talk Jesus - Statement of Faith
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
Moderator
<><
Member
Messianic Jews that I have met online of Facebook, always without fail, ridicule my friends and myself for celebrating Christmas and Easter. We do not ridicule them for NOT celebrating, but they will boldly and unashamedly burst upon friends' posts, for example, recently a friend of mine who is in ministry, posted a short recording of her son singing a Christmas song about Jesus. My friend was openly attacked on her page with venom and hostility. Sadly this is not at all the first time I have seen this.
Loyal
For what "they" may or may not have done that was wrong, who are we to stand in judgment of them all? Looking around you, are all of the people you have met anywhere, who say they are they are Christians, Christ-like according to what the scripture describes Christ as being? Should we also throw all of them along with Messianic Jews into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth? None of us here are Jesus, which includes you and me and the writer of the OP. We must work while it is Day for soon night cometh when no man may work. Our job is not to root out the tares, if tares there be...
Stop and think about what God has told you your work is to be.
"But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work." John 5:17
"Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." John 6:29
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