Grievances with God

[KingJ]

@planet2146

With the use of AI I have created this thread to list your grievances with God so that we can properly discuss and address them on a point-by-point basis. Grievances you raised in this thread Hello.

1. God deliberately causes suffering

“The only help that he provides is pain and misery.” “It seems like a twisted hobby for him.” “Why did he choose to put us on a planet where there is UV light, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, tsumanis…” “I think things could of have been thought out a little less crudely.”

2. God uses suffering as a test or training ground

“I don't trust god one iota.” “We have to accept an extreme life to be worthy of god's love?” “What problem do you think god has with success and joy?” “Most of us have to eat, heat and cool our houses unwind from the stresses of life, especially the ones god imposes on us.”

3. God seems cruel, narcissistic or sadistic

“It seems like a twisted hobby for him.” “Is god a narcissists?” “Have you ever met a narcissist in real life? Sickening.” “I think we are here for entertainment purposes.” “I think ‘god’ likes to see how we think, how tolerant we can be, how he is worshiped. I think he constantly measures us.”

4. God is ultimately responsible for evil, even if Satan exists

“I don't believe in ‘Satan’ so that only leaves the almighty one.” “yin and yang, god and the devil are just the frame work of the person pulling the levers. Whatever it is.” “I could be wrong and it was the other guy ‘satan’, but I believe god is complicit.” “This talk about the demons, deities, this and that, god is suppose to rein supreme over them and because they seem to dominate, I believe god is complicit…”

5. God manipulates people's lives

“The lord arranges things in such a way that they are difficult to explain.” “His ways are very nuanced and clandestine.” “I know you were working through these people or knew that they had such the talent that you invited them in my life to make me miserable.” “God came knocking on my door several years ago and said, I never liked you from the day you were born…” “Whatever you worked your a** of for, I made sure the experience was of low quality.”

6. God blames people for things He helped cause

“God needed a lot of help from his soldiers to get me to sin…” “Considering some of the individuals whatever it is invited in my life, I think it's absurd for whatever it is to call me out.” “Why are you so upset with me that I'm so prideful, do you remember when these people called me stupid, while those didn't, that is why I'm so prideful.” “You can thank your soldiers for what you hate about me so much.”

7. God seems opposed to human success, achievement and enjoyment

“I get it but I do not see what the problem is taking satisfaction in being fruitful or good at something. Better yet, taking joy in your work.” “I'm a little confused, doesn't god want us to be joyful?” “What problem do you think god has with success and joy?”

8. The Bible's emphasis on rejecting the world seems unrealistic

“Do you live in a monastery?” “Most of us have to eat, heat and cool our houses unwind from the stresses of life, especially the ones god imposes on us.” “We need transportation, we have electric bills, car insurance, pay rent or mortgages, health insurance the list goes on and on.” “Be realistic.”

9. God is hidden and ambiguous while expecting people to believe in Him

“His ways are very nuanced and clandestine.” “I'm still trying to figure out what I'm dealing with (God, demon, holy spirit, imp).” “How can something possibly be everywhere at once?” “Does anyone actually have any proof that a ‘heaven’ exists?” “No voices or anything like that. More like incredible coincidences, synchronicity and an internal psychic like guidance…”

10. God demands devotion despite treating people harshly

“I don't trust god one iota.” “The only help that he provides is pain and misery.” “I think god feels that I was just there and I showed no real love.” “I think god also feels that I abandoned him…” “I think my situation is; at a very young age I think that god feels that I insulted him.” “I believe it is a gift from god to be devout to him.”
od has treated him harshly.

 

[KingJ]

Scripture is quite clear on these grievances you raised. These are very common arguments we all have with God. You say you are a Christian. It is important for a Christian to understand the scriptural answers to these questions. I hope the below helps you.

1. God deliberately causes suffering

Scripture distinguishes between God causing evil and God allowing suffering while working through it for good. “We know that all things work together for good to them that love God” (Romans 8:28). Scripture also says that God does not tempt anyone with evil (James 1:13). Suffering therefore cannot simply be equated with God being cruel.

2. God uses suffering as a test or training ground

Scripture explicitly teaches that trials can serve a purpose in the believer's life: “the trying of your faith worketh patience” (James 1:3). Hebrews 12:6-11 likewise describes God's chastening as producing “the peaceable fruit of righteousness.” Scripture therefore does present suffering and trials as something God can use for our spiritual good.

3. God seems cruel narcissistic or sadistic

Scripture does not portray God's desire for worship as narcissism. God is worthy of worship because of who He is: “Thou art worthy O Lord to receive glory and honour and power” (Revelation 4:11). At the same time Scripture says “God is love” (1 John 4:8) and demonstrates that love through Christ's sacrifice (Romans 5:8).

4. God is ultimately responsible for evil even if Satan exists

Scripture distinguishes between God's sovereignty and the actions of evil beings. Satan is described as a real adversary (1 Peter 5:8) but God is not the author of sin. “Let no man say when he is tempted I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil neither tempteth he any man” (James 1:13). God can permit evil without approving of the evil itself.

5. God manipulates people's lives

Scripture does teach that God is sovereign over circumstances: “The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD” (Psalm 37:23). But Scripture also warns against assuming that every misfortune is God's direct action. Job's experience is a particularly important example. We therefore shouldn't automatically interpret every difficult person or circumstance as someone God deliberately placed in our lives to make us miserable.

6. God blames people for things He helped cause

Scripture recognises that circumstances can influence people but still holds individuals morally responsible for their own actions. “Every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed” (James 1:14). Ezekiel 18:20 says “The soul that sinneth it shall die.” Being hurt by others can explain someone's struggles but Scripture does not therefore remove personal responsibility for sin.

7. God seems opposed to human success achievement and enjoyment

Scripture does not condemn honest work or enjoyment. In fact “every man should eat and drink and enjoy the good of all his labour” (Ecclesiastes 3:13). The problem is not achievement itself but pride and trusting in earthly wealth. “God resisteth the proud but giveth grace unto the humble” (James 4:6).

8. The Bible's emphasis on rejecting the world seems unrealistic

Scripture does not tell Christians to stop participating in ordinary earthly life. Jesus said believers are “in the world” (John 17:11) and Paul instructed Christians to work and provide for themselves (2 Thessalonians 3:10-12). When Scripture says “Love not the world” (1 John 2:15) it is referring to the sinful system and desires opposed to God rather than telling Christians to abandon normal earthly responsibilities.

9. God is hidden and ambiguous while expecting people to believe in Him

Scripture teaches that God has actually given mankind evidence of Himself. “The heavens declare the glory of God” (Psalm 19:1) and Romans 1:20 says God's invisible attributes are understood through the things He has made. Christianity also points to God's revelation through Christ: “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John 14:9). Scripture therefore does not present God as having left humanity without revelation.

10. God demands devotion despite treating people harshly

The central Christian answer is the cross. Scripture says “God commendeth his love toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8). Jesus Himself says “Greater love hath no man than this that a man lay down his life for his friends” (John 15:13). Whatever questions remain about suffering therefore have to be considered alongside the biblical claim that God demonstrated His love by giving His Son for sinners.

 

[KingJ]

@planet2146

In Summary:

You seem to have put God on trial with only a prosecutor present. But if God is to be judged fairly then everything He has done must be taken into consideration. He created you. He created the world. He gave mankind the ability to choose between good and evil. He has provided an eternal home for the righteous and a final judgment for the wicked.

God is not beyond accusations of evil simply because He is God. Rather He is beyond them because He is perfectly good and righteous in all His ways: “The Lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17). In fact God does not ask us to believe that He is good merely because He is God. He invites us to examine His works and judge rightly: “Judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard. What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it?” (Isaiah 5:3–4). Scripture likewise declares: “Let God be true, but every man a liar” (Romans 3:4). God therefore does not fear examination or righteous judgment. His character and His works will withstand it.

A creation such as mankind requires the genuine opportunity to exercise free will. That requires time. Space. Choices. Consequences. And the ability to choose between obedience and rebellion. This world provides the setting in which those choices can take place.

And this was not an afterthought. Scripture says that God's purpose in Christ was established “before the foundation of the world” (Ephesians 1:4). God's plan was not merely to create mankind and leave us to our fate. It was to reconcile sinners to Himself through Jesus

Therefore the suffering and difficulties of this present world cannot properly be judged in isolation. They must be considered within the whole of God's plan — creation, free will, sin, redemption, Christ's sacrifice, resurrection, judgment and eternity.

The cross ultimately stands at the centre of that plan. “God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).

 

[Twistie]

@planet2146

In Summary:

You seem to have put God on trial with only a prosecutor present. But if God is to be judged fairly then everything He has done must be taken into consideration. He created you. He created the world. He gave mankind the ability to choose between good and evil. He has provided an eternal home for the righteous and a final judgment for the wicked.

God is not beyond accusations of evil simply because He is God. Rather He is beyond them because He is perfectly good and righteous in all His ways: “The Lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17). In fact God does not ask us to believe that He is good merely because He is God. He invites us to examine His works and judge rightly: “Judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard. What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it?” (Isaiah 5:3–4). Scripture likewise declares: “Let God be true, but every man a liar” (Romans 3:4). God therefore does not fear examination or righteous judgment. His character and His works will withstand it.

A creation such as mankind requires the genuine opportunity to exercise free will. That requires time. Space. Choices. Consequences. And the ability to choose between obedience and rebellion. This world provides the setting in which those choices can take place.

And this was not an afterthought. Scripture says that God's purpose in Christ was established “before the foundation of the world” (Ephesians 1:4). God's plan was not merely to create mankind and leave us to our fate. It was to reconcile sinners to Himself through Jesus

Therefore the suffering and difficulties of this present world cannot properly be judged in isolation. They must be considered within the whole of God's plan — creation, free will, sin, redemption, Christ's sacrifice, resurrection, judgment and eternity.

The cross ultimately stands at the centre of that plan. “God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).

Thats a pretty awesome write! I really enjoyed this last one
(post) great way to start off my praising this morning..thanks!!

(⁠✷⁠‿⁠✷⁠)

 

[Bill]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

First of all scripture States. God is Love.

Scripture also States. Where love is, evil cannot be.

Okay so this establishes something very specific about God. That he is love, and evil cannot be there with him.

So to lay claim, this is His fault, as it is evil, is a false statement.

What you should recognize, is that God created. And he created mankind with a free will. And Mankind in his freedom chose. The suffering of mankind comes from their own freedom to choose.

Suffering and war are results of mankind falling away from God. I.E. we had Paradise in our hands, and Mankind sinned, first with Adam and Eve. And after, most of mandkind.

I say most of mankind, because there must have been a sliver or a few who strived to be with God. Otherwise you would not have had Melchizedek during the time of Abraham. Nor would you have had Abraham being an upright and righteous man.

Most of what we see as pain and suffering, is our own fault.

This last part has to be seen not through mans eyes, but through God's. When we see perfection, it is what "WE" deem as what perfection should look like.
But there are some people who are created with "deformities" and created handicapped or mentally handicapped. These Children of God are created perfect in God's eyes to teach us compassion. To teach us to become more God-like. Remember, it was Jesus who told us to be like Him.

 

[NBTT]

Most of what we see as pain and suffering, is our own fault.

There have been several large earthquakes recently. Often parents, being larger, are crushed under falling buildings and mangled small children are found alive in the rubble. The knowledge that Adam & Eve sinned long ago is not all that comforting to the parent-less mangled child with a life of misery.

Even as a person of faith, I have prayed that God heal me or take me out (His will not mine). So far His will is more suffering.

 

[Twistie]

There have been several large earthquakes recently. Often parents, being larger, are crushed under falling buildings and mangled small children are found alive in the rubble. The knowledge that Adam & Eve sinned long ago is not all that comforting to the parent-less mangled child with a life of misery.

Even as a person of faith, I have prayed that God heal me or take me out (His will not mine). So far His will is more suffering.

I get that..there are many days that the pain keeps me homebound but i also understand i beat the heck out of this body with all the crap i was into i also come to see it as a blessing..i get to spend much time with the Lord..and He has shown me so much.... things that i wouldn't be able to fathom as a child.. there are still very much unsolved in my life that i still grieve over but the Lord He does comfort us and He does give us the strength to keep going..some times the grief we go through n i mean like loss loss of those we may hold dear there is no comforting word just being there n being silent and doing what we can to lessen their burdens speaks louder than any word can be spoken.. idk..

Ive seen much ive lost much ive meant some beautiful broken people like me on my life walk n unless one can empathize with others they wont get it..they cant..

When my children would talk to me id tell them dont let this world harden your heart because if it does the world won....

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.


ʕ⁠·⁠ᴥ⁠·⁠ʔ

 

[Twistie]

The ancient Hebrew word commonly translated as charity is tzedakah (צְדָקָה), which fundamentally translates to "righteousness" or "justice".

Meaning and NuanceObligation vs. Choice: Unlike the modern Western concept of charity—which implies a voluntary, spontaneous act of generosity—tzedakah is an ethical and religious duty..

Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Man like to complicate things the LAbba is not one of Confusion

 

[KingJ]

There have been several large earthquakes recently. Often parents, being larger, are crushed under falling buildings and mangled small children are found alive in the rubble. The knowledge that Adam & Eve sinned long ago is not all that comforting to the parent-less mangled child with a life of misery.

Even as a person of faith, I have prayed that God heal me or take me out (His will not mine). So far His will is more suffering.

Sorry to hear about your suffering, praying for God to strengthen you and keep you.

Any and all suffering of children is among the hardest things to defend God on.

But, when it comes to adults enduring suffering I don't battle at all. God gave me two visions that helped me so much. One vision was of myself at a casino playing a slot machine. He likened my suffering to it paying out massive rewards. He would 'push the suffering button' as often as He could and pure gold coins would come flying out. Second was of Job. I saw Job in heaven with a crown that read ''suffered A, B and C for God and yet remained faithful''. A Christian who endures any kind of suffering for Jesus, whether it be living with an illness that he can easily cure or persecution for His name, will receive a massive reward in heaven for it.

Earth is a proving ground I don't believe God will repeat with us. We just need to make 1000% certain that we are in fact a Christian and that our suffering is God ordained.

Life can be very comfortable for many in today's world. We don't have the stress that people had 100 years ago. 100 years ago one could easily suffer and die from: Childbirth, Appendicitis, Pneumonia, Diphtheria, Tetanus, Polio, Smallpox, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Whooping cough, Scarlet fever, Tuberculosis, Typhoid fever, Cholera, Malaria, Sepsis from an infected wound, Childbirth hemorrhage, Ectopic pregnancy, Preeclampsia, Placental abruption, Obstructed labor, Postpartum infection, Blood loss requiring transfusion, Severe burns, Broken bones requiring surgery, Appendiceal rupture, Gallbladder infection, Kidney stones with severe infection, Bacterial meningitis, Encephalitis, Rheumatic fever, Peptic ulcer bleeding, Intestinal obstruction, Hernia strangulation, Cataracts causing blindness, Severe dental infections, Gangrene, Osteomyelitis, Severe dehydration from diarrhea, Rabies after exposure, Yellow fever, Typhus, Typhoid perforation, Pneumococcal meningitis, Haemophilus influenzae meningitis, Severe asthma attacks, Diabetic ketoacidosis, Heart attack, Stroke, Blood clots requiring emergency treatment.

From that list it is rather clear that suffering is a part of God's plan for mankind. We as Christians do need to step back and see the higher purpose in it.

 

[Gothedral]

Even as a person of faith, I have prayed that God heal me - or take me out (His will not mine). So far His will is more suffering.

Gen 27:1... Despite being a central patriarch of the covenant promise, Isaac spent the entire final chapter of his life completely incapacitated by physical blindness.

Gen 32 (verses 25 and 31 especially): Following a mysterious night-long spiritual and physical wrestling match with the Angel of YHWH, the patriarch Jacob was left with a permanent physical injury to his hip socket that lasted the rest of his life.

2 Sam 9:3, 13... While not a prophet, Mephibosheth (the son of Jonathan) is presented in the historical books as a righteous and intensely faithful covenant partner to King David. He dropped as a child and endured total physical disability in both feet for his entire life.

There's the Book of the testament of Job ...

1 Tim 5:23... Timothy, a faithful young pastor and co-laborer with Paul, suffered from a chronic, recurring physical ailment. Rather than performing a miraculous healing, Paul offered practical, medicinal advice for managing the daily condition.

But yeah, it shouldn't be hard to explain to a child, for of such is Heaven.