Going to Heaven

[B-A-C]

Someone mentioned in another thread, that perhaps we aren't going to heaven when we die.
Hmmmm.... It got me wondering, why do I believe I'm going to heaven? Are there verses that say this?

Heaven seems to be a place, it is mentioned over 450 times in the Bible, but where is it? What is it? The answers aren't as easy as I thought.

In Matt 5:3; and Matt 5:10; it says some people will inherit "the kingdom of heaven". Is the kingdom of heaven, really heaven? I've always thought so, but some people disagree.
Matt 5:20; talks about entering the kingdom of heaven. So does Matt 7:21; and Matt 18:3;

It has been mentioned before that sometimes in the Bible, the kingdom of heaven is mentioned like a place... kind of like a temple or tabernacle.
But sometimes the kingdom of heaven is mentioned as kind of a club that you have membership to... kind of like a church body.
The Bible goes on to say that even weeds (tares) and bad fish are in the "kingdom" of heaven. So obviously this isn't the same thing as heaven.

In Mark 16:19; it says Jesus went up to heaven. ( also see Acts 1:2; Acts 1:11; 1 Thes 1:10; 1 Pet 3:22; )
Luke 10:18; says Satan used to be in heaven, but was cast out.
John 3:13; says no people have ascended into heaven yet, except Jesus. (also see Acts 2:34; )
John 6:38; says Jesus came down from heaven. (see 1Cor 15:47; )

Romans 10 has an interesting passage.
Rom 10:6; But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down),
Rom 10:7; or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)."

In Php 2:10; it mentions 3 groups people.
Php 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Php 2:11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Rev 13:6; And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.
Is it possible this is just Jesus, the Father, and the angels? I'm not sure. Rev 7:10-17; talk about the 24 elders who are also there. (see Rev 19:4; )
(can these be humans if no one has ascended to heaven yet?)

It seems someone is in heaven. Maybe it's just the angels? Under the earth or beneath the earth is usually taken as those in sheol or hades.
Php 3:20; says our citizenship is in heaven. Citizenship is usually tied a place ( a country).

Finally there is a place called the New Jerusalem. Some people call the New Jerusalem heaven, however the Bible differentiates the two.
( Rev 3:12; Rev 21:2; Rev 21:10; ) all say that the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven. Rev 22:1-3; talk about those who will live there.

John 14:2; says in my fathers house are many dwelling places (King James says many mansions). Is this in heaven, or in the New Jerusalem?
The next verse says Jesus is going to prepare a place for us there.

Also there is the judgment, are the thrones mentioned in Rev 20:4; in heaven? Or somewhere else?
We know that God's throne is in heaven, but is this the same throne?

2 Cor 5:6-8; say that when we leave the body we are present with the Lord, is this in the New Jerusalem? Or in heaven? Or somewhere else?

 

[B-A-C]

Rev 7:3; saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads."
Rev 7:4; And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
Rev 7:5; from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,
Rev 7:6; from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand,
Rev 7:7; from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand,
Rev 7:8; from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

Obviously this is the 144,000 Jews.

Rev 7:9; After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
Rev 7:10; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
Rev 7:11; And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
Rev 7:12; saying, "Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen."
Rev 7:13; Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15; "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.

Where is the great multitude of people "no one could count". It is difficult to tell from the passage, is it heaven or the New Jerusalem?

 

[B-A-C]

The Bible also talks about a huge wedding feast. It mentions reclining "at the table" in the kingdom of God. Perhaps this metaphorical, but I believe it's really a real place.

Matt 8:11; "I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven;

Luke 13:29; "And they will come from east and west and from north and south, and will recline at the table in the kingdom of God.

I originally thought feast would be in the New Jerusalem, but the verses above say the kingdom of heaven/God.

 

[B-A-C]

Rev 20:11; Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

Is the great white throne judgment in heaven? If so, do people stay there after they are judged?
It seems the throne of God is in heaven.

Matt 5:34; "But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,
Matt 23:22; "And whoever swears by heaven, swears both by the throne of God and by Him who sits upon it.

I believe Jesus is in heaven seated next to the father.
Luke 22:69; "But from now on THE SON OF MAN WILL BE SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND of the power OF GOD."
Eph 1:20; which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
Col 3:1; Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

 

[rag4aCrown]

Blessings in the Lord Jesus;
One thing is for sure; instead of trying to figure something out for ourselves, considering what is and what isn't; it may be best to seek the kingdom of God first; that He resides within us right now.
For it is written; Unless we be converted and become as "little children", we shall not even see the "kingdom of heaven". Amen.
We have no understanding until God reveals it; Unveiling the scriptures and their truth to us. Amen.
Are we depending and trusting on Him, in Him, with Him, through Him for ALL our needs?
This is what "little children" do. They trust in one bigger than them for food, clothing, have their diaper changed, tying their shoe............................
Hum...Instead of making them become more like us; we should be taking lessons from them and become more like them. Amen.
All praise, glory, and honor be to God. Amen.

 

[rag4aCrown]

Blessings;
I have seen the New Jerusalem. It was not connect to the earth.
It stood in mid air, above the tree tops. It ascended upwards out of my sight.
Colors bounced and twinkled from within it and about it. A golden glow encircled it; Love embracing it.
Yes, I believe there are many mansions within her walls. The doors on the front were very tall and slender.
I was allowed to see it; but was not allowed to see past the doors.
All praise, honor, and glory be to God. Amen.

 

[james1523]

I agree that the New Jerusalem is floating above the Earth.

For the answer about what the New Jerusalem is, take a look at who else is floating above the earth:

1 Thess 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

The New Jerusalem is a symbolic vision for the believers who live with the Lord forever in the air.

 

[B-A-C]

Description of the New Jerusalem. It seems to have physical dimensions.

Rev 21:10; And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11; having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper.
Rev 21:12; It had a great and high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names were written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel.
Rev 21:13; There were three gates on the east and three gates on the north and three gates on the south and three gates on the west.
Rev 21:14; And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Rev 21:15; The one who spoke with me had a gold measuring rod to measure the city, and its gates and its wall.
Rev 21:16; The city is laid out as a square, and its length is as great as the width; and he measured the city with the rod, fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal.
Rev 21:17; And he measured its wall, seventy-two yards, according to human measurements, which are also angelic measurements.
Rev 21:18; The material of the wall was jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass.
Rev 21:19; The foundation stones of the city wall were adorned with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation stone was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, chalcedony; the fourth, emerald;
Rev 21:20; the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, topaz; the tenth, chrysoprase; the eleventh, jacinth; the twelfth, amethyst.
Rev 21:21; And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the gates was a single pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.
Rev 21:22; I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
Rev 21:23; And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.
Rev 21:24; The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.
Rev 21:25; In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed;
Rev 21:26; and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it;
Rev 21:27; and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[clark thompson]

I will be with my Lord and this makes it heaven.

 

[james1523]

Description of the New Jerusalem. It seems to have physical dimensions.

Rev 21:10; And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11; having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper.
Rev 21:12; It had a great and high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names were written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel.
Rev 21:13; There were three gates on the east and three gates on the north and three gates on the south and three gates on the west.
Rev 21:14; And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Rev 21:15; The one who spoke with me had a gold measuring rod to measure the city, and its gates and its wall.
Rev 21:16; The city is laid out as a square, and its length is as great as the width; and he measured the city with the rod, fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal.
Rev 21:17; And he measured its wall, seventy-two yards, according to human measurements, which are also angelic measurements.
Rev 21:18; The material of the wall was jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass.
Rev 21:19; The foundation stones of the city wall were adorned with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation stone was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, chalcedony; the fourth, emerald;
Rev 21:20; the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, topaz; the tenth, chrysoprase; the eleventh, jacinth; the twelfth, amethyst.
Rev 21:21; And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the gates was a single pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.
Rev 21:22; I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
Rev 21:23; And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.
Rev 21:24; The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.
Rev 21:25; In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed;
Rev 21:26; and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it;
Rev 21:27; and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Yes I believe the physical dimensions and building materials are symbolic, if we take the time to cross-reference their significance to the Old Testament types, this will become clearer.
For example,
The twelve foundation stones (verse 14), are the twelve apostles, who founded the church:

Eph 2:19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God's people and also members of his household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.

Peter was the first foundation stone (Matt 16:18) but the others became stones as well.

 

[Hekuran]

Great question. This opens up big issues about the way salvation is taught.
It's common enough to hear phrases such as "the Bible is our roadmap to get us to heaven" or "Jesus came to earth so that we might go to heaven", "our destination is heaven" plus dozens more. But I can't see any place where the Bible talks about heaven as the goal of the Christian life. What's going on here?

 

[imajw4life]

Does the BIble hold out hope of heavenly life?

Luke 12:32 "Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom. And Rev 14:1-3 "I saw, and look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads...And they are signing as if a new song...and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth."

That number is literal: After mentioning that number 144,000, Revelation 7:9 refers to "a great crowd, which no man was able to number." If the number 144,000 were not literal it would lack meaning as a contrast to the "great crowd." Viewing the number as literal agrees with Jesus' statement at Matthew 22:14 regarding the Kingdom of the heavens "There are many invited, but few chosen.

 

[james1523]

Luke 12:32 "Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom. And Rev 14:1-3 "I saw, and look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads...And they are signing as if a new song...and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth."

That number is literal: After mentioning that number 144,000, Revelation 7:9 refers to "a great crowd, which no man was able to number." If the number 144,000 were not literal it would lack meaning as a contrast to the "great crowd." Viewing the number as literal agrees with Jesus' statement at Matthew 22:14 regarding the Kingdom of the heavens "There are many invited, but few chosen.

One question, as a JW how do you know if you are part of the 144,000 or not?

It's symbolic because Revelation is a prophetic vision, and prophetic visions contain much imagery and symbolism. Most numbers in scripture are approximations or symbolic, the number 144000 is 12 times 12 times 1000 which is very symbolic.

 

[imajw4life]

The 144,000 receive unmistakably the witness of the holy spirit. The apostle Paul wrote "All who are led by God's spirit, these are God's sons. The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God's children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs; heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together." (Romans 8:14-17) This witness of the spirit is so powerful that those who have the slightest doubt about having received the heavenly calling can reasonably conclude that they have not.

 

[imajw4life]

This is because the majority of us, minus 144,000, will enjoy the earth for eternity. That is why the earth was created. Soon the earth will be turned back to paradise conditions, and we will live forever upon it.