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God's Election, Called vs. Chosen

Member
Want to know where the doctrines of 'once saved always saved' from the Reformers and Calvin originated?

It comes from men's confusion within some of Apostle Paul's Epistles about God's chosen elect vs. those who have only been 'called' but not 'chosen'. The majority of us believers have been 'called' only. I don't know any of us that can rightly claim the chosen elect positions Christ's Apostles had as 'sent ones'. Many preachers keep trying to equate our belief on Christ like we are 'chosen' as they were, but Scripture makes a clear distinction their calling was different, even with the 12 thrones Jesus promised them in God's future Kingdom (Matt.19:28).

Who represents God's 'chosen' elect per The New Covenant when Jesus came to die on the cross? His Apostles, including Apostle Paul. The actual meaning of the word 'apostle' in Greek means 'one sent' or one that is sent. Apostle Paul was one of the greatest examples of a chosen sent one by Christ, because Paul (Saul) once greatly persecuted Christ's Church (Acts 22).

Per Acts 9, Jesus said that Paul was His "chosen vessel", as He struck Paul down on the road to Damascus while Paul even had a letter of authority by the Jews to hunt down and deliver up Christians to them. Jesus intervened divinely into Paul's life bringing Paul into His Service against his will. That especially is a sign of a chosen elect, a sent one by Christ. Likewise with Christ's other Apostles, when He met them and told them to follow, they got up and followed, no questions, no debates, they left what they were doing and followed Him, like He already 'owned' them.

So the idea of a 'chosen' elect is actually about previous 'ownership' by The Father and His Son. This is especially shown in the John 17 chapter when our Lord Jesus prayed to The Father prior to His being delivered up to be crucified. The heart of this within that John 17 chapter is how Christ 'sent' His chosen ones (Apostles) into the world to serve The Gospel and that they had belonged to The Father and He gave them to Jesus, and Jesus kept them while He was in the world.

Then by the preaching of The Gospel by them, others that believed on Christ by their preaching were to become 'one' together in The Father and Christ Jesus. So two different groups are being shown there, the first as Christ's chosen elect sent ones which The Father owned and gave to Him, and then all others that would believe on Him through the preaching of His chosen sent Apostles. It's about the foundation of Christ's Church, and then us as the lively stones that are built upon that foundation. In Ephesians 2 Apostle Paul included God's OT prophets within that foundation also, with our Lord Jesus Christ as the Chief Cornerstone.

This is why in some of Paul's Epistles we read ideas about it being impossible for some to fall away from Christ Jesus, like Romans 8...

Rom 8:29-31
29 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
(KJV)

All of those above verses must be weighed together. That "predestinate" means 'chosen' before the foundation of this world. That is how the John 17 Scripture is defining Christ's chosen sent Apostles that were to help create the foundation of His Church. It's because His 'sent' chosen ones already were owned by The Father and The Son, even before they were born. This is why our Lord Jesus could command them instantly to follow Him when He came in the flesh. It is how He could divinely intervene directly with Saul (Paul) and bring him in His Service of The Gospel, influencing Paul's free will. And if you think further back to OT times, it is how God even told His prophet Jeremiah that He knew him even before he was in his mother's womb, and sanctified Jeremiah even before he was born (Jeremiah 1:5). It's about God's ownership, even before birth. Same idea in Romans 9 where Paul says before Jacob and Esau were born, God said He loved Jacob, but hated Esau.

So truly, for God's chosen elect, that idea of if God be for us, who can be against us, applies directly and especially to them, for they cannot fall away from God since He already owned those from the beginning. For us who are called only, it means as long as we stay in The Faith on Christ Jesus then that passage will apply to us also. But fall away, and it won't.

This is why we can find Apostle Paul also constantly warning to stay in Christ and keep The Faith lest we fall, making our 'calling sure', vs. ideas like that Romans 8 Scripture above about those whom God foreknew and already justified and glorified into His Service for the sake of those who would believe on Christ through their preaching (i.e., John 17:20-21).

But some men have confused this distinction Paul's Epistles contain about those of us that are not 'chosen elect' like Christ's sent ones (Apostles and OT prophets, and OT Patriarchs), but are 'called' only. Our Lord Jesus taught this distinction also when He said, "For many are called, but few are chosen" (Matthew 22:14).

Another major distinction Christ's sent ones have per Scripture is a direct appearance and conversation with Christ Jesus, i.e., in Person. How many of us today can claim that? I can claim gifts and a touching by The Holy Spirit, but not with my Lord Jesus in my direct presence speaking to Him in Person like His Apostles did, nor like Adam, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, etc., did and the OT prophets did.

What this means is that we who have been 'called' only, can indeed fall away from Christ IF... we allow it, not remaining "a chaste virgin" like Paul warned in 2 Cor.11. This is how Christ would send His chosen that already 'knew' the dangers of this world and how to warn the rest of us about them. Christ already put His Word directly into their hearts and minds so as to be able to show us. We have that promise too IF... we heed Him and His Apostles and are careful to not fall away. When we do that, maintain our walk with Christ, then we are joined with Him and His elect chosen sent ones, and we all become one Body in Christ Jesus.

Some have confused this difference of many are called but few are chosen, not actually paying attention to how The LORD has setup beforehand a chosen elect in His Service for the benefit of the rest of us He called. His chosen cannot ever be turned away from Him, for they are chosen. They cannot ever fall away from Him to deception when they are called, because He already owns them. This is how it would have been impossible for Apostle Paul to fall away from Him back to following his brethren the Jews. Christ already owned Paul, even when Paul was persecuting His Church, and when it was time He called him by divine intervention, showing that previous ownership of Paul.

Because of confusion on this, some men have applied that sent chosen already justified, already sanctified, already glorified state of those predestinated like Christ's Apostles, to all believers on Christ Jesus, even to those of us who have only been 'called', but not 'chosen'. That's where the OSAS doctrines of Calvinism originates, those not realizing this difference per Scripture that those 'called' only can still fall away IF they allow it, while His chosen elect cannot.
 
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Member
Here's a Biblical question brethren regarding the above.

Per Scripture involving the end time events against falling away, keeping our garments lest we appear naked and in shame, refusing to bow in false worship to the coming Antichrist and the "image of the beast" he is to setup in Jerusalem per Paul's 2 Thessalonians 2 Scripture and the "strong delusion", WHO in Christ's Church would be subject to those things for the end?

Ans: those called, but not chosen.


Matt 24:21-26
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
(KJV)


That warning our Lord Jesus gave in His Olivet Discourse upon the Mount of Olives is for the latter days during the "great tribulation" that is soon coming upon us. It is about the coming Antichrist that is to set himself up in place of God in Jerusalem for the end, just prior to Christ's return.

Our Lord Jesus warns there that when the deceived say that Christ is here, don't believe it. If they say He is in the desert, don't follow after that false one, or in the secret chambers, don't believe it.

In verse 24 He reveals just how strong that delusion of a pseudo-Christ ("false Christs" from the Greek) will be, and its relation to His chosen elect ("very elect" = even the elect). It is to be such a powerful working of deception by that false messiah working miracles and wonders on earth, that IF possible, it would deceive even His own elect.

That "if it were possible" phrase is to show which of His elect He was talking about. It's about His 'chosen' elect, those He already owns that cannot be deceived, ever, i.e., those who will ever remain steadfast in Christ, even during that great tribulation period.

But what about the 'called' only who are not of that chosen elect? The called only can... be deceived by that false messiah's working in our near future. Many brethren today are already prepared to not recognize that first messiah coming to Jerusalem as being a false one. They are not being taught to watch the times and the seasons for the end of this world that Apostle Paul mentioned in 1 Thess.5. It's these that Apostle Paul was referring to in the 2 Thessalonians 2 chapter involving that coming false one to Jerusalem to sit in a temple there and proclaim himself as God:

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)
 
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Loyal
Rom 8:29; For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
I don't doubt He foreknew. I don't have a problem with God knowing the future.
But just because He knew what our choice would be, doesn't mean He made the choice for us.
I also don't doubt that He predestined those who chose Him to "conformed to the image of His Son" (some Bibles say the image of Jesus Christ).

I may know that you want to go into the Army. (foreknew)
But I didn't make that choice for you.
However if you do go into the Army, it's predestined you will get a short haircut and wear green clothes. (predestined)

This verse has nothing to do with freewill.

Josh 24:15; If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”
 
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Loyal
As for the word "elect".

In the US we hold elections in November. The future President is chosen then. He is chosen and he is an elect.
But he is NOT a President yet. Presidential inaugurations are normally held in February. So for 4 months, he is just an elect.

Some people seem to hold the fact that they are chosen, or they are an elect as an idea that everything has already happened to them
that is ever going to Spiritually happen to them.
 
Member
Want to know where the doctrines of 'once saved always saved' from the Reformers and Calvin originated?

It comes from men's confusion within some of Apostle Paul's Epistles about God's chosen elect vs. those who have only been 'called' but not 'chosen'. The majority of us believers have been 'called' only. I don't know any of us that can rightly claim the chosen elect positions Christ's Apostles had as 'sent ones'. Many preachers keep trying to equate our belief on Christ like we are 'chosen' as they were, but Scripture makes a clear distinction their calling was different, even with the 12 thrones Jesus promised them in God's future Kingdom (Matt.19:28).

Who represents God's 'chosen' elect per The New Covenant when Jesus came to die on the cross? His Apostles, including Apostle Paul. The actual meaning of the word 'apostle' in Greek means 'one sent' or one that is sent. Apostle Paul was one of the greatest examples of a chosen sent one by Christ, because Paul (Saul) once greatly persecuted Christ's Church (Acts 22).

Per Acts 9, Jesus said that Paul was His "chosen vessel", as He struck Paul down on the road to Damascus while Paul even had a letter of authority by the Jews to hunt down and deliver up Christians to them. Jesus intervened divinely into Paul's life bringing Paul into His Service against his will. That especially is a sign of a chosen elect, a sent one by Christ. Likewise with Christ's other Apostles, when He met them and told them to follow, they got up and followed, no questions, no debates, they left what they were doing and followed Him, like He already 'owned' them.

So the idea of a 'chosen' elect is actually about previous 'ownership' by The Father and His Son. This is especially shown in the John 17 chapter when our Lord Jesus prayed to The Father prior to His being delivered up to be crucified. The heart of this within that John 17 chapter is how Christ 'sent' His chosen ones (Apostles) into the world to serve The Gospel and that they had belonged to The Father and He gave them to Jesus, and Jesus kept them while He was in the world.

Then by the preaching of The Gospel by them, others that believed on Christ by their preaching were to become 'one' together in The Father and Christ Jesus. So two different groups are being shown there, the first as Christ's chosen elect sent ones which The Father owned and gave to Him, and then all others that would believe on Him through the preaching of His chosen sent Apostles. It's about the foundation of Christ's Church, and then us as the lively stones that are built upon that foundation. In Ephesians 2 Apostle Paul included God's OT prophets within that foundation also, with our Lord Jesus Christ as the Chief Cornerstone.

This is why in some of Paul's Epistles we read ideas about it being impossible for some to fall away from Christ Jesus, like Romans 8...

Rom 8:29-31
29 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
(KJV)

All of those above verses must be weighed together. That "predestinate" means 'chosen' before the foundation of this world. That is how the John 17 Scripture is defining Christ's chosen sent Apostles that were to help create the foundation of His Church. It's because His 'sent' chosen ones already were owned by The Father and The Son, even before they were born. This is why our Lord Jesus could command them instantly to follow Him when He came in the flesh. It is how He could divinely intervene directly with Saul (Paul) and bring him in His Service of The Gospel, influencing Paul's free will. And if you think further back to OT times, it is how God even told His prophet Jeremiah that He knew him even before he was in his mother's womb, and sanctified Jeremiah even before he was born (Jeremiah 1:5). It's about God's ownership, even before birth. Same idea in Romans 9 where Paul says before Jacob and Esau were born, God said He loved Jacob, but hated Esau.

So truly, for God's chosen elect, that idea of if God be for us, who can be against us, applies directly and especially to them, for they cannot fall away from God since He already owned those from the beginning. For us who are called only, it means as long as we stay in The Faith on Christ Jesus then that passage will apply to us also. But fall away, and it won't.

This is why we can find Apostle Paul also constantly warning to stay in Christ and keep The Faith lest we fall, making our 'calling sure', vs. ideas like that Romans 8 Scripture above about those whom God foreknew and already justified and glorified into His Service for the sake of those who would believe on Christ through their preaching (i.e., John 17:20-21).

But some men have confused this distinction Paul's Epistles contain about those of us that are not 'chosen elect' like Christ's sent ones (Apostles and OT prophets, and OT Patriarchs), but are 'called' only. Our Lord Jesus taught this distinction also when He said, "For many are called, but few are chosen" (Matthew 22:14).

Another major distinction Christ's sent ones have per Scripture is a direct appearance and conversation with Christ Jesus, i.e., in Person. How many of us today can claim that? I can claim gifts and a touching by The Holy Spirit, but not with my Lord Jesus in my direct presence speaking to Him in Person like His Apostles did, nor like Adam, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, etc., did and the OT prophets did.

What this means is that we who have been 'called' only, can indeed fall away from Christ IF... we allow it, not remaining "a chaste virgin" like Paul warned in 2 Cor.11. This is how Christ would send His chosen that already 'knew' the dangers of this world and how to warn the rest of us about them. Christ already put His Word directly into their hearts and minds so as to be able to show us. We have that promise too IF... we heed Him and His Apostles and are careful to not fall away. When we do that, maintain our walk with Christ, then we are joined with Him and His elect chosen sent ones, and we all become one Body in Christ Jesus.

Some have confused this difference of many are called but few are chosen, not actually paying attention to how The LORD has setup beforehand a chosen elect in His Service for the benefit of the rest of us He called. His chosen cannot ever be turned away from Him, for they are chosen. They cannot ever fall away from Him to deception when they are called, because He already owns them. This is how it would have been impossible for Apostle Paul to fall away from Him back to following his brethren the Jews. Christ already owned Paul, even when Paul was persecuting His Church, and when it was time He called him by divine intervention, showing that previous ownership of Paul.

Because of confusion on this, some men have applied that sent chosen already justified, already sanctified, already glorified state of those predestinated like Christ's Apostles, to all believers on Christ Jesus, even to those of us who have only been 'called', but not 'chosen'. That's where the OSAS doctrines of Calvinism originates, those not realizing this difference per Scripture that those 'called' only can still fall away IF they allow it, while His chosen elect cannot.


Is tis your orignal material? I thnk I have read this somewhere else, several places too. Pardon, but is'nt this more of the debate against OSAS? Hasn't this been beat to death enough? You have exppessed your self very well. There are no winners. Most people have already made their mind up by now. There has been so many posts and so many snarky remarks, why keep it up any more?
 
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Active

RJ

I don't doubt He foreknew. I don't have a problem with God knowing the future.
But just because He knew what our choice would be, doesn't mean He made the choice for us.
I also don't doubt that He predestined those who chose Him to "conformed to the image of His Son" (some Bibles say the image of Jesus Christ).

I may know that you want to go into the Army. (foreknew)
But I didn't make that choice for you.
However if you do go into the Army, it's predestined you will get a short haircut and wear green clothes. (predestined)

This verse has nothing to do with freewill.

Josh 24:15; If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”
  • God is perfect
  • God is omniscient,omipotent and omnipresent.
  • He is the Alpha and the Omega. The begining and the end at the same time.
  • God knew everyones choice from the foundation of the universe and put each of us in his Book of Life. We didn't come along thousands of years later, become saved and then go in the Book of Life, we were already there.
  • Predistination is a God word and it is absolutely tied into the act of choice or free will!
 
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Member
Here's another Biblical proof that God has a chosen elect that He Himself has preserved that cannot fall away.

Rom 11:1-5
1 I say then, Hath God cast away His people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 "Lord, they have killed Thy prophets, and digged down Thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life."
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? "I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal."
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
(KJV)

Ahab was king of the northern Israelite kingdom of the time when Elijah said that verse 3 complaining to God (see 1 Kings 18 & 19). King Ahab had married Jezebel who was a Zidonian, a place of pagan false worshipers, and she worshiped Baal, and forced Baal worship upon the house of Israel. She tried to wipe out all of God's prophets, including Elijah who thought he was the only one left. God told Elijah He has left seven thousand in Israel that had not bowed the knee to Baal.

In Romans 11 Apostle Paul shows that election had continued even to a remnant of Israel pertaining to The New Covenant in his day (Rom.11:5).

We all would like to think we are like that seven thousand 'chosen' directly by God, but we must not forget that God does the choosing, not us. It's because He is not going to let His Word go forth without producing fruit per His promises. What He has said will come to pass as written. We can be sure of that.

Would His elect chosen ones go around proclaiming how 'elect' they are, or even ask others if they are one of His chosen elect? No, not likely. Only those not chosen who misunderstand why He has a 'chosen' elect would do something like that, because they see it as some kind of special status symbol like the thinking of this world. It is not, especially since the many Bible examples of a chosen elect reveals those felt not able to the task. Moses and Jeremiah told God they couldn't speak well enough to go talk to the people of Israel. Jonah tried to get out of his chosen duty God gave him to preach to Nineveh, even to the point of jumping overboard to save the others aboard and maybe end his responsibility God gave him. God caused a great fish to swallow Jonah and it spit him out right upon the shores of Nineveh.

So our Heavenly Father and His Son have a group of chosen elect, even today, that He knows He can depend on to do His Will, and that He will if necessary, like He did with Jonah, put back in line according to His Will if they begin to stray. That's what ownership actually means; He already owns those and can influence their 'free will' (Apostle Paul being one of the strongest examples of that Divine influence per Acts 9).

So what about those of us that aren't chosen elect, but called only? Can He depend upon us to do His Will, even though He allows us the free will to stray? Each one of us must answer that question to ourselves.
 
Active

RJ

Here's another Biblical proof that God has a chosen elect that He Himself has preserved that cannot fall away.

Rom 11:1-5
1 I say then, Hath God cast away His people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 "Lord, they have killed Thy prophets, and digged down Thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life."
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? "I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal."
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
(KJV)

Ahab was king of the northern Israelite kingdom of the time when Elijah said that verse 3 complaining to God (see 1 Kings 18 & 19). King Ahab had married Jezebel who was a Zidonian, a place of pagan false worshipers, and she worshiped Baal, and forced Baal worship upon the house of Israel. She tried to wipe out all of God's prophets, including Elijah who thought he was the only one left. God told Elijah He has left seven thousand in Israel that had not bowed the knee to Baal.

In Romans 11 Apostle Paul shows that election had continued even to a remnant of Israel pertaining to The New Covenant in his day (Rom.11:5).

We all would like to think we are like that seven thousand 'chosen' directly by God, but we must not forget that God does the choosing, not us. It's because He is not going to let His Word go forth without producing fruit per His promises. What He has said will come to pass as written. We can be sure of that.

Would His elect chosen ones go around proclaiming how 'elect' they are, or even ask others if they are one of His chosen elect? No, not likely. Only those not chosen who misunderstand why He has a 'chosen' elect would do something like that, because they see it as some kind of special status symbol like the thinking of this world. It is not, especially since the many Bible examples of a chosen elect reveals those felt not able to the task. Moses and Jeremiah told God they couldn't speak well enough to go talk to the people of Israel. Jonah tried to get out of his chosen duty God gave him to preach to Nineveh, even to the point of jumping overboard to save the others aboard and maybe end his responsibility God gave him. God caused a great fish to swallow Jonah and it spit him out right upon the shores of Nineveh.

So our Heavenly Father and His Son have a group of chosen elect, even today, that He knows He can depend on to do His Will, and that He will if necessary, like He did with Jonah, put back in line according to His Will if they begin to stray. That's what ownership actually means; He already owns those and can influence their 'free will' (Apostle Paul being one of the strongest examples of that Divine influence per Acts 9).

So what about those of us that aren't chosen elect, but called only? Can He depend upon us to do His Will, even though He allows us the free will to stray? Each one of us must answer that question to ourselves.
What about: Revelation 3:20
  • This writting was for everyone of the true unbelievers. It wasn't to only " Going To Be The Elect", like it was a forgone conclusion that everyone was elected to hear this and they were all save.
  • If anyone hears my voice and opens the door....I see nothing about only a elected few.
  • Christ still graciously, by his word and Spirit, comes to the door of the hearts of sinners. Those who open to him shall enjoy his presence
  • Today, in this era of living under the law, "Christ died once for all"!
  • You can call it or categorize how ever you wish, there should be no denial, God does not refuse anyone. He constantly persues all the wicked. Every one of us has a chance for glory until our dieing breath and we can only lose it to unbelief!
 
Member
For God so loved the WORLD... The bible tells us Jesus died for all sins. Not just some of them. If God predestined only some for eternal life that would also mean God predestined some to hell, and this is against who God is. The bible tells us God does not desire even one should perish.

God knew who would choose to follow Him and who would reject Him. He has a plan for each of us.
 
Member

DHC

For God so loved the WORLD... The bible tells us Jesus died for all sins. Not just some of them. If God predestined only some for eternal life that would also mean God predestined some to hell, and this is against who God is. The bible tells us God does not desire even one should perish.

God knew who would choose to follow Him and who would reject Him. He has a plan for each of us.
Hello eddieb.

Your post started well.

Love is the defining nature of God, all that God does is from pure, eternal love.

This is the way that God should be defined and known by us.

1 John 4:8
The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

If you read through the Gospels the character that Jesus is displays at
all times is love. To know God is to love.

Romans 5:5
and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within
our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

This is the goal of every Christian life and it is delivered to us by the Holy Spirit.

John 13:35
By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.

This is the distinguishing trait of all those who follow Jesus, love for one another.

John 15:9
Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.

This the the true and paramount command given to us in Christ.

Romans 8:39
nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from
the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I would be reluctant to use this verse to support a theology. This verse promises
that we cannot be separated from the love of God. In this we rejoice!

Romans 12:10
Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor;

If your life is increasing in love for God and humanity then you have the very fullness of
Christ Himself. Love is the greatest attribute that we can attain to, a perfect Christian
life. You were created for the purpose of fellowship with God and all creation in love.

1 Corinthians 13:2
If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith,
so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
 
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Active

RJ

For God so loved the WORLD... The bible tells us Jesus died for all sins. Not just some of them. If God predestined only some for eternal life that would also mean God predestined some to hell, and this is against who God is. The bible tells us God does not desire even one should perish.

God knew who would choose to follow Him and who would reject Him. He has a plan for each of us.
I so agree!
If we don't beleive this , we put limits on the one who is limitless.
After all, he is the Alpha and the Omega...he is the begining and the end at the same time.
Our God is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent!
So man still has a choice or free will and God has predestined this!
 
Member
I so agree!
If we don't beleive this , we put limits on the one who is limitless.
After all, he is the Alpha and the Omega...he is the begining and the end at the same time.
Our God is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent!
So man still has a choice or free will and God has predestined this!
I don't think we can even come close to understanding how and who is called or not called. I know God knows who will become a Follower of Jesus Christ and who will reject Him. It's not my knowledge to know either way, so we as believers just keep extending to call to come to those who will. I have no idea why Jesus choose or called me, or even why I responded, I know I just had to believe He loves me, and paid the cost for my sins. Seems simple to say, but it is very complex for most to understand or people whould be begging God to Save them at every chance that was given. Is that how you feel?
 
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RJ

I don't think we can even come close to understanding how and who is called or not called. I know God knows who will become a Follower of Jesus Christ and who will reject Him. It's not my knowledge to know either way, so we as believers just keep extending to call to come to those who will. I have no idea why Jesus choose or called me, or even why I responded, I know I just had to believe He loves me, and paid the cost for my sins. Seems simple to say, but it is very complex for most to understand or people whould be begging God to Save them at every chance that was given. Is that how you feel?
We as believers come close sometimes but no, none of us fully understand. But, It is impossible for the non-believer for they have no consciene toward or need for God.
Our time is comming: 1 Corinthians 13:9-13
Until then, the non-believer is our responsibility and we are to plant the seeds of grace and hope when ever we can.
We should also be able to agree, that in God's Kingdom and when it comes to truth and righteousness, there is no impossibilities. He is all knowing, all present and all powerful and this too when can not fully comprehend!
 
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I don't think we can even come close to understanding how and who is called or not called. I know God knows who will become a Follower of Jesus Christ and who will reject Him. It's not my knowledge to know either way, so we as believers just keep extending to call to come to those who will. I have no idea why Jesus choose or called me, or even why I responded, I know I just had to believe He loves me, and paid the cost for my sins. Seems simple to say, but it is very complex for most to understand or people whould be begging God to Save them at every chance that was given. Is that how you feel?
Some people use the term 'predestined' and 'double predestined'. Single predestination refers to God calling all to salvation, but knowing who will be saved in the end. Double predestination means that God chooses who will be saved in the end.
 
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God chooses us first, and then we choose Him after He has chosen us:

John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you .....

In Judaism, it was customary for the disciple to choose his teacher. But Christ reversed this custom, by choosing His disciples. But this does not imply we cannot resist God's choice of us, or that God cannot resist (or ignore) our choice of Him.

God may choose us, yet we may reject Him (John 5:40, Luke 13:34)
We may choose God, yet He may reject us (Matt 7:21, Matt 22:11-13)
 
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Some people use the term 'predestined' and 'double predestined'. Single predestination refers to God calling all to salvation, but knowing who will be saved in the end. Double predestination means that God chooses who will be saved in the end.
I do think that some people are so filled with hate and anger that Gods Grace could never touch their hard, cold heart. God knows that before they are concieved. Are some people made to go to hell? I don't think God makes them with the intention of going to hell, but in His all knowing He knows from the time of creation who will reject Him and who will respond to Jesus Christ paying the price for their sins.

Very few raised on hate and killing will respond to Love. Take most Muslims the way they are brought up gives them little chance to take love and openess to the gospel. There are many people who are taught wrong from the day they are born.
 
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Is tis your orignal material? I thnk I have read this somewhere else, several places too. Pardon, but is'nt this more of the debate against OSAS? Hasn't this been beat to death enough? You have exppessed your self very well. There are no winners. Most people have already made their mind up by now. There has been so many posts and so many snarky remarks, why keep it up any more?
Yes, that is my original material, which should be easy to tell per my writing style with other posts of mine. I didn't come here Biblically unlearned. And Calvin's doctrines about the idea of God's election did influence today's doctrines of men called OSAS, because that doctrine applies the idea of Christ's 'chosen' to all true believers as His election. The point NT Scripture makes though, which I have documented in my original post, is that a chosen elect has their free will divinely influenced if they begin to stray, which is the Biblical case with those like Apostle Paul, the prophets and Patriarchs. Most of us cannot claim that kind of Divine influence in our lives, even though we may have a touching by The Holy Spirit. This is most easily seen today with how many brethren are falling away as per Paul's prophecy for the end.
 
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What about: Revelation 3:20
  • This writting was for everyone of the true unbelievers. It wasn't to only " Going To Be The Elect", like it was a forgone conclusion that everyone was elected to hear this and they were all save.
  • If anyone hears my voice and opens the door....I see nothing about only a elected few.
  • Christ still graciously, by his word and Spirit, comes to the door of the hearts of sinners. Those who open to him shall enjoy his presence
  • Today, in this era of living under the law, "Christ died once for all"!
  • You can call it or categorize how ever you wish, there should be no denial, God does not refuse anyone. He constantly persues all the wicked. Every one of us has a chance for glory until our dieing breath and we can only lose it to unbelief!
That still is not addressing the subject of Scripture about the 'chosen' vs. the 'called'. Like our Lord Jesus said, "For many are called, but few are chosen." This is specifically what the John 17 chapter reveals if one will read it line upon line and notice two groups are mentioned, the first group those like Christ's Apostles which The Father already owned and gave to Christ, and then all those who would come to believe by their preaching of The Gospel.

And in final Christ said it was His hope that all of them, both groups, would become one in Him and The Father.

Thus we have in the NT Epistles by His Apostles warnings to that second group to stay in Christ and don't fall away or be deceived, revealing the difference between His chosen vs. those called only that are still allowed to use their free will to stray.

Romans 11 about Israel in part that God has blinded is linked to this contrast also, since Paul covers both an elect remnant of Israel that God has preserved that won't fall away, vs. the Israel in part which He blinded until the fulness of the Gentiles is fulfilled.

So the matter for us 'called' is to remain steadfast in Christ Jesus all the way to the end of this world, and thus we are accounted with His elect chosen ones as One Body in Him. But His chosen ones are not subject to a falling away, ever. This is how our Lord Jesus could even promise His Apostles already, that they would sit upon 12 thrones over the 12 tribes of Israel in His future Kingdom (Matt.19:28).
 
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Why do I bring up this distinction that's within God's Word about His election vs. those who can still fall away?

It's because of what's getting ready to happen in our days, this last generation we now are in that I am convinced per Scripture will see Christ's second coming. Our Lord Jesus and His Apostles warned us about these times when the coming Antichrist/false messiah will come to play God on earth and cause the majority of the world to believe it (Matt.24:23-26; 2 Thess.2:3-4; Rev.13:11-16; 2 Cor.11). And on the 6th Vial our Lord Jesus warned us to keep our garments lest we walk naked, because His coming will be as a thief. He and His Apostles specifically warned us to not be deceived about that future event.

That future event of a coming Antichrist to sit in a temple in Jerusalem and play God even the early Church fathers of the 1st and 2nd centuries understood per Scripture, and looked for in their days. It didn't happen then. The Reformers thought it was the pope in their days. It was not. And since then, men's doctrines have stupified many into thinking they either will be raptured prior to that Antichrist coming, and others have believed no such event will happen in our near future and that it was already history. This reveals many brethren today are not prepared for this event, showing how ready they are to be deceived by this coming event.
 

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