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Giants - Did God create them?

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Considering that the book of Enoch is not considered part of inspired Scripture -- you might want to stick to inspired Scripture. Scripture says that 1/3 of the angels rebelled and were kicked out of heaven. Lucifer became satan and the rebelling angels became demons. They are all still active down here on earth. It's called the invisible spirit world.
Do you read anything besides the Bible? Do you watch television? How about fiction. Did you read only the Bible in school? Maybe a newspaper? Or reference books on other subjects? Truth is not limited to the Bible Sue. The things is to be careful of where you look for the truth. The trick is NOT to run away from everything non- biblical but to use your God-given intelligence and discernment in your learning.
As an example my dear friend, you seem to be saying fallen angels are demons...That's NOT in the Bible...That's extra-biblical Churchianity.
 
Bendito -- seems we've had this conversation previously. In PMing / Conversation. You're into sci-fi in a big way. Christian sci-fi.

And, yes, I watch TV and 'Google' a lot and FB -- I'm Not an uneducated person -- Bible college - - and use my God-given brain a great deal.

Bible -- John -- Jesus Christ is telling us that "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but through Me."

There's a multitude of truth in All areas of education. And, yes, we DO need to be careful as to what we Do accept as the Truth.

The demonic being in the world -- it's Obvious. Just talk to missionaries in some of the African countries. They face occultism/ demon worshiping / the witch-doctors. It's in This country. Do you know the origins of Halloween?!

The demons that Jesus Christ caste out of people in the New Testament -- where do you think they came from?! the world of witches/ worlocks = church of satan. Voodoo. It's all 'alive and well ' on planet earth. I happen to have that book.

Back when my older daughter was in high school, she got to know a guy who lived down the street from us. His mom and aunt. They were Very in to Halloween. they wanted their son, the guy my daughter was getting to know - to go to a party with them. He said no and stayed home. Later that evening he called our house. He was freaking out. The kitchen cupboard doors were opening and shutting and chairs moving around. He was home by himself. You know what his Mom and aunt were doing at their 'party'. using the demonic world to mess with him.

Okay -- you tell Me where you think the demonic world Does come from. And Please stick to Biblical FACT.

I do more 'discerning' on this Forum than anyplace else. And some of my recent 'discerning' concerns the church I'm changing From and To. :smile:
 
Considering that the book of Enoch is not considered part of inspired Scripture -- you might want to stick to inspired Scripture. Scripture says that 1/3 of the angels rebelled and were kicked out of heaven. Lucifer became satan and the rebelling angels became demons. They are all still active down here on earth. It's called the invisible spirit world.
Bendito -- seems we've had this conversation previously. In PMing / Conversation. You're into sci-fi in a big way. Christian sci-fi.

And, yes, I watch TV and 'Google' a lot and FB -- I'm Not an uneducated person -- Bible college - - and use my God-given brain a great deal.

Bible -- John -- Jesus Christ is telling us that "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but through Me."

There's a multitude of truth in All areas of education. And, yes, we DO need to be careful as to what we Do accept as the Truth.

The demonic being in the world -- it's Obvious. Just talk to missionaries in some of the African countries. They face occultism/ demon worshiping / the witch-doctors. It's in This country. Do you know the origins of Halloween?!

The demons that Jesus Christ caste out of people in the New Testament -- where do you think they came from?! the world of witches/ worlocks = church of satan. Voodoo. It's all 'alive and well ' on planet earth. I happen to have that book.

Back when my older daughter was in high school, she got to know a guy who lived down the street from us. His mom and aunt. They were Very in to Halloween. they wanted their son, the guy my daughter was getting to know - to go to a party with them. He said no and stayed home. Later that evening he called our house. He was freaking out. The kitchen cupboard doors were opening and shutting and chairs moving around. He was home by himself. You know what his Mom and aunt were doing at their 'party'. using the demonic world to mess with him.

Okay -- you tell Me where you think the demonic world Does come from. And Please stick to Biblical FACT.

I do more 'discerning' on this Forum than anyplace else. And some of my recent 'discerning' concerns the church I'm changing From and To. :smile:
First off Sister....I was not insinuating you are not educated. I know you to be a very smart woman, well read, and knowledgeable in many areas. I meant no slight to you in any way. I was not very clear in my question...the reason I asked if you read other things than the bible is simply that you will garner truths from many other sources in your life. The bible is truth. There is no argument there. My point is that truth is everywhere. Why would one deny truth here and not there? The Book of Enoch. Check the source...Enoch walked with God1 Do we? If Enoch walked with God then what he says must be at least a little bit right. He must know what he's talking about at least a little bit. Right? So....take the truth that he shares and go on.
So what happened? God and Enoch were talking about the giants. This is what God told Enoch would happen with the giants:
Origin of Demons
8My judgment for the giants is that since they are born from flesh they will be called evil spirits and will
remain on the earth. 9Because they were created from above, from the holy Watchers, at death their spirits will come forth from their bodies and dwell on the earth. They will be called evil spirits. 10The heavenly spirits will dwell in heaven, but the terrestrial spirits who were born on earth will dwell on earth. [xlix] 11The evil spirits of the giants will be like clouds. They will afflict, corrupt, tempt, battle, work
destruction on the earth, and do evil; they will not eat nor drink, but be invisible. 12They will rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them.
16 When the giants die and their spirits leave their bodies, their flesh will decay without judgment. In this way the race will cease to exist until the great judgment in which the age will be wholly consummated over the Watchers and the godless.
There is the origin of demons...Not bible but from a man who walked with God. In truth I would much rather learn from a man who walks/ walked with God than learn from any bible school.

Yes I'm well aware of what Halloween is...and Easter, and Christmas. I'm aware of many of the demon taught things Christians are into. I'm aware that demons are very active, especially in and against the Christian church. Where Satan is concerned WE are the threat to him, not his people. If Christians would only wake up! They could and would kick Satan butt all over the planet. If Christians knew their authority they could lock Satan and his demons in a box, figuratively speaking, and this planet would flourish! But instead....Christians dither, they compromise with the world, they adopt demonic teachings and traditions too. Why? Christians, in general, talk the talk, but they also have to walk the walk. And they don't. Now I the did not point this at you Sue but nonetheless, it is true.
Now as to. giving you the thing of where demons come from....The bible does not say....So...YOU give me from the bible where fallen angels are demons....

Actually Sue....I said my writing falls into the Genre of Sci-fi...I didn't say it was Sci-fi....The story is fiction but what I write about is NOT fiction. It's just that genre's are limited and there no real genre for my kind of stories.


I'm really beginning to hate all this pointless bickering. Christian sites....fighting among ourselves.
 
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Active Member
First off Sister....I was not insinuating you are not educated. I know you to be a very smart woman, well read, and knowledgeable in many areas. I meant no slight to you in any way. I was not very clear in my question...the reason I asked if you read other things than the bible is simply that you will garner truths from many other sources in your life. The bible is truth. There is no argument there. My point is that truth is everywhere. Why would one deny truth here and not there? The Book of Enoch. Check the source...Enoch walked with God1 Do we? If Enoch walked with God then what he says must be at least a little bit right. He must know what he's talking about at least a little bit. Right? So....take the truth that he shares and go on.
So what happened? God and Enoch were talking about the giants. This is what God told Enoch would happen with the giants:
Origin of Demons
8My judgment for the giants is that since they are born from flesh they will be called evil spirits and will
remain on the earth. 9Because they were created from above, from the holy Watchers, at death their spirits will come forth from their bodies and dwell on the earth. They will be called evil spirits. 10The heavenly spirits will dwell in heaven, but the terrestrial spirits who were born on earth will dwell on earth. [xlix] 11The evil spirits of the giants will be like clouds. They will afflict, corrupt, tempt, battle, work
destruction on the earth, and do evil; they will not eat nor drink, but be invisible. 12They will rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them.
16 When the giants die and their spirits leave their bodies, their flesh will decay without judgment. In this way the race will cease to exist until the great judgment in which the age will be wholly consummated over the Watchers and the godless.
There is the origin of demons...Not bible but from a man who walked with God. In truth I would much rather learn from a man who walks/ walked with God than learn from any bible school.

Yes I'm well aware of what Halloween is...and Easter, and Christmas. I'm aware of many of the demon taught things Christians are into. I'm aware that demons are very active, especially in and against the Christian church. Where Satan is concerned WE are the threat to him, not his people. If Christians would only wake up! They could and would kick Satan butt all over the planet. If Christians knew their authority they could lock Satan and his demons in a box, figuratively speaking, and this planet would flourish! But instead....Christians dither, they compromise with the world, they adopt demonic teachings and traditions too. Why? Christians, in general, talk the talk, but they also have to walk the walk. And they don't. Now I the did not point this at you Sue but nonetheless, it is true.
Now as to. giving you the thing of where demons come from....The bible does not say....So...YOU give me from the bible where fallen angels are demons....

Actually Sue....I said my writing falls into the Genre of Sci-fi...I didn't say it was Sci-fi....The story is fiction but what I write about is NOT fiction. It's just that genre's are limited and there no real genre for my kind of stories.


I'm really beginning to hate all this pointless bickering. Christian sites....fighting among ourselves.
I had, maybe still have an old Bible school textbook that has a chapter for each book of the canon and the apocrypha and some early Church scholar writings. I remember Enoch had dozens of contradictions with canon scriptures. Just a quick look on Google comes up with longer lists verse by list. Have you checked Enoch out besides just reading and believing it? I wouldn't believe parts while disagreeing with parts. That would not correctly be possible with the holy Bible. There was good reason not to hold the book equal to canon books. 1 Enoch was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, which I havn't looked at.
 
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I had, maybe still have an old Bible textbook that has a chapter for each book of the canon and the apocrypha and some early Church scholor writings. I remember Enoch had dozens of contradictions with canon scriptures. Just a quick look on Google comes up with longer lists verse by list. Have you checked Enoch out besides just reading and believing it? I wouldn't believe parts while disagreeing with parts. There was good reason not to hold the book equal to canon books. 1 Enoch was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, which I havn't looked at.
If the Book of Enoch contradicts the Word, why did Jesus quote that book?
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. (Mat 5:5) The elect shall possess light, joy and peace, and they shall inherit the earth. (Enoch 5:7 {6:9})

the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the son (John 5:22). the principal part of the judgment was assigned to him, the Son of man. (Enoch 69:27 {68:39})

shall inherit everlasting life (Mat. 19:29) those who will inherit eternal life (Enoch 40:9 {40:9})

"Wo unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. (Luke 6:24) Woe to you who are rich, for in your riches have you trusted; but from your riches you shall be removed. (Enoch 94:8 {93:7}).

Ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Mat. 19:28) I will place each of them on a throne of glory (Enoch 108:12 {105:26})

Woe unto that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born. (Mat. 26:24) Where will the habitation of sinners be . . . who have rejected the Lord of spirits. It would have been better for them, had they never been born. (Enoch 38:2 {38:2})

between us and you there is a great gulf fixed. (Luke 16:26) by a chasm . . . [are] their souls are separated (Enoch 22: 9,11{22:10,12})

In my Father's house are many mansions (John 14:2) In that day shall the Elect One sit upon a throne of glory, and shall choose their conditions and countless habitations. (Enoch 45:3 {45:3})

that ye may be called the children of light (John 12:36) the good from the generation of light (Enoch 108:11 {105: 25})

the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. (John 4:14) all the thirsty drank, and were filled with wisdom, having their habitation with the righteous, the elect, and the holy. (Enoch 48:1 {48:1})

Why did Jude quote the Book of Enoch?

Jude 1:14-15, quoting Enoch 1:9 {2:1} [1]

"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
"To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches, which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."

We first learn of Enoch in Genesis 5 but it leaves us with questions. Hebrews 11 has the answers and Jude quotes Enoch! How did Jude come to know the words of Enoch? They are not in the Bible. The answer of course, is The Book of Enoch. A book which is actually quoted not only by Jude, but also James the natural brother of Jesus. The quote in (Jude 14-15) & (1 Enoch 1:9) is as follows: "In the seventh (generation) from Adam Enoch also prophesied these things, saying: 'Behold, the Lord came with his holy myriads, to execute judgment on all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners spoke against him'."

What is the Book of Enoch and where did it come from?
Enoch was the grandfather of Noah. The Book of Enoch chapter 68:1 "And after that my grandfather Enoch gave me all the secrets in the book and in the parables which had been given to him, and he put them together for me in the words of the book of the parables." This makes it possible for the Book to have survived the flood as its not too hard to accept that Noah would have taken his Great Grandfathers writings with him onto the ark.

The Book of Enoch was extant centuries before the birth of Christ and yet is considered by many to be more Christian in its theology than Jewish. It was considered scripture by many early Christians. The earliest literature of the so-called "Church Fathers" is filled with references to this mysterious book. The early second century "Epistle of Barnabus" makes much use of the Book of Enoch. Second and Third Century "Church Fathers" like Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origin and Clement of Alexandria all make use of the Book of Enoch. Tertullian (160-230 C.E) even called the Book of Enoch "Holy Scripture". The Ethiopic Church even added the Book of Enoch to its official canon. It was widely known and read the first three centuries after Christ. This and many other books became discredited after the Council of Laodicea. And being under ban of the authorities, afterwards it gradually passed out of circulation.

At about the time of the Protestant Reformation, there came to be a renewed interest in the Book of Enoch which had long since been lost to the modern world. By the late 1400's rumors began to spread that somewhere a copy of the long lost Book of Enoch might still exist. During this time many books arose claiming to be the long lost book and were later found to be forgeries. The return of the long lost Book of Enoch to the modern western world is credited to the famous explorer James Bruce, who in 1773 returned from six years in Abyssinia with three Ethiopic copies of the lost book. In 1821 Richard Laurence published the first English translation. The famous R.H. Charles edition was published in 1912. In the following years several portions of the Greek text surfaced. Then with the discovery of cave 4 of the Dead Sea Scrolls, seven fragmentary copies of the Aramaic text were discovered.

The Book of Enoch is divided into five basic parts, but it is the The Book of Parables (37-71) which gives scholars the most trouble for it is primarily concerned with a figure called "the messiah"; "the righteous one"; "the chosen one" and "the son of man." Chapter 46:1-2, There I beheld the Ancient of days whose head was like white wool, and with him another, whose countenance resembled that of a man. His countenance was full of grace, like that of one of the holy angels. Then I inquired of one of the angels, who went with me, and who showed me every secret thing, concerning this Son of man; who he was; whence he was; and why he accompanied the Ancient of days. He answered and said to me, This is the Son of man, to whom righteousness belongs; with whom righteousness has dwealt; and who will reveal all the treasures of that which is concealed: for the Lord of spirits has chosen him; and his portion has surpassed all before the Lord of spirits in everlasting uprightness."

The opening verses of the Book of Enoch tell us that the revelations in this book were not meant for Enoch's generation, rather a remote generation, and of course the book would make more sense to the generations after Christ. We know that the early Church made use of the Book of Enoch, but it was then all but lost, until recent times. Perhaps this book was meant for our generation, as it is widely available today after being concealed for over a millennia. (Enoch 1:1-3) The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his parable and said -Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come.

But hey! If you don't want to use the Book of Enoch, nobody is going to force you. I believe it lines up with the Bible so I choose to use it. And I don't judge you for not using it.
 
Bendito -- you've mentioned two books now that are Not included in the Canon of Scripture -- Epistles of Barnabas is the other you mentioned.

Well -- you believe in a lot of things that don't line up with Scripture.

Part of your post "...who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed." previously in that sentence "The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation" If that 's really what the book of Enoch is saying -- then That Is a contradiction Of the rest of Scripture.

For one thing -- it's the born-again believers who will be up and out and the wicked and godless will be staying down here.

There Are those who believe that the gathering up of the born-again believers won't take place until After the 7 yrs of tribulation. But there are some holes in that. The believers will be taken up Pre-trib because that's when the marriage super of the Lamb will be taking place. During those 7 yrs.
 
Bendito -- you've mentioned two books now that are Not included in the Canon of Scripture -- Epistles of Barnabas is the other you mentioned.

Well -- you believe in a lot of things that don't line up with Scripture.

Part of your post "...who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed." previously in that sentence "The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation" If that 's really what the book of Enoch is saying -- then That Is a contradiction Of the rest of Scripture.

For one thing -- it's the born-again believers who will be up and out and the wicked and godless will be staying down here.

There Are those who believe that the gathering up of the born-again believers won't take place until After the 7 yrs of tribulation. But there are some holes in that. The believers will be taken up Pre-trib because that's when the marriage super of the Lamb will be taking place. During those 7 yrs.
Why don't you tell me where I mentioned the Epistles of Barnabas. I'd like to see what I said at least. Where did I say all the wicked and godless are removed...At least give me a post number. Come on girl, play fair
 
Active Member
There are probably thousands heretical ancient to modern documents, that contain some holy scripture. I think considering what we know about Noah and the Jewish history there would have been at least some reference to it. It would have been a great help for Genesis to have recorded such a significant event as Noah taking the book aboard through the flood. He should certainly have had personal knowledge of his own great grand father, but what little is known from the Hebrew canon is
Genesis 5:23-24 (KJV)
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Then he was mentioned in the genealogy of Jesus in Luke, again in Hebrews, and in Jude, all too brief to make him more honorable than Rahab or Gideon.
The Book of Enoch must be considered in a category of interest for history and curiosity value. Moses didn't place it between Genesis and Exodus, nor did it find a place among the Jews in general to this day. The Jews never included it in their Hebrew canon, but it was included in the Septuagint.

There being fragments of 1 Enoch among the thousands of the Dead Sea scrolls, it's possibly contemporaneous with the Essenes, authored among them or acquired by them from an unknown author. Since the Jews never accepted it, there would have been no copies made to preserve it. No originals could possibly have survived as an original from much beyond the era of copies in the Dead Sea fragment collection. If some scholars are right, the quotes in it found in the Bible were based on inspired volumes that were canonized by the Church. In other words, that book was written after the synoptic books and probably even after the Prison Epistles, dating to the third century. Only one particular Egyptian sect of Jews honors the book, preserving it. It dropped from quotations among Christian scholars by the 4th century. It is of course possible Catholic copiers kept a copy going for the sake of scholarship. They don't put it directly alongside the canon either. The non-Catholic Church since the 4th century has left Enoch settled as Apocryphal. The RCC regards it as deuterocanonical (secondary writings listed at the Councils). Well, let the Catholics be Catholics, papists be papists. We ought to be grateful they were vital to maintaining the scriptures to be held by Protestants, who were fearful of removing anything previously accepted as inspired, as were early scholars disagreeing but not taking firm action on a list of books to canonize (made the rule) until finally confirmed in 397 AD.

Jesus would not have quoted from a document that contradicts what God inspired to be recorded in the New Testament. He only did and said what the Father did and said. The Holy Spirit didn't confirm Enoch to the apostles. If allowing anyone to teach from such a faulty though interesting document as Enoch being as eligible as the holy scriptures the Church recognized as inspired (canon), we would be faulty ourselves for standing by not marking false or deceived teachers, especially those causing divisions. Defending Enoch against (or in a favorable contrast) the Bible canon is simply indefensible among Christians, though more admiral among Catholics.

Tolerating lessons out of the Book of Mormon would be comparable to accepting the Aprocryphal books as inspired equally as the canonical books, which actually likes the KJV Bible but goes way beyond it into questionable doctrines.
 
Why don't you tell me where I mentioned the Epistles of Barnabas. I'd like to see what I said at least. Where did I say all the wicked and godless are removed...At least give me a post number. Come on girl, play fair
I found that exact same text (post 325 and earlier ones in this thread) copied on many websites, probably originating from Catholic Answers based on the use of words, whcih are not your style. Try being original. A hazard of copy/paste large statements is not bothering to read it and remember what "you wrote". I really desire to see an end to the practice, limiting it to Bible verses. I'd much rather go to the website where it's easier to read enhanced text, and at least get some idea of their perspective. Catholics are very busy drawing readers in, filling chat room memberships, with an agenda aimed at recruitment. So are Hebrew Roots folks, and other cults, including false, dangerous ones.....

I'm done with this thread, further discussion of the topic being increasingly redundant and filling with error.
 
My thought had been that I'm very aware of what I've typed in a post. So, ya, I agree.

Some years ago I got onto a large RCC Forum. They let Anyone in. I got into a section of q/a -- I would respond to other people's questions from Scripture -- it wasn't appreciated. Seem that their aim was to recruit people from other belief systems into their RCC system. Oh, ya, and I got kicked off.

A belief system Has to acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Son of God / the death, burial and bodily resurrection from the dead. No good works needed for salvation. Or it's not truly Bible only. And it's not truly Christianity.
 
Bendito -- you've mentioned two books now that are Not included in the Canon of Scripture -- Epistles of Barnabas is the other you mentioned.

Well -- you believe in a lot of things that don't line up with Scripture.

Part of your post "...who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed." previously in that sentence "The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation" If that 's really what the book of Enoch is saying -- then That Is a contradiction Of the rest of Scripture.

For one thing -- it's the born-again believers who will be up and out and the wicked and godless will be staying down here.

There Are those who believe that the gathering up of the born-again believers won't take place until After the 7 yrs of tribulation. But there are some holes in that. The believers will be taken up Pre-trib because that's when the marriage super of the Lamb will be taking place. During those 7 yrs.
Actually, my friend, I believe a lot of things that do not line up with Churchianity teaching. I believe that the Book of Enoch lines up with the Bible. If you do not, don't read it. Simple as that.
That line about the wicked and Godless being removed, in the Book of Enoch it reads, not removed, but destroyed. and God blessing those faithful who are still on the Earth in those days. What's the problem with that? I already told you in other posts that not all "Christians" will be caught up in the rapture...Some WILL go into the tribulation period. The BIBLE backs that one up....The bride is caught up. And I told you who the bride is....The one who has made herself ready.....
Personally I think you are fighting this so hard because it scares you.....You need to find out why it scares you.
 
I found that exact same text (post 325 and earlier ones in this thread) copied on many websites, probably originating from Catholic Answers based on the use of words, whcih are not your style. Try being original. A hazard of copy/paste large statements is not bothering to read it and remember what "you wrote". I really desire to see an end to the practice, limiting it to Bible verses. I'd much rather go to the website where it's easier to read enhanced text, and at least get some idea of their perspective. Catholics are very busy drawing readers in, filling chat room memberships, with an agenda aimed at recruitment. So are Hebrew Roots folks, and other cults, including false, dangerous ones.....

I'm done with this thread, further discussion of the topic being increasingly redundant and filling with error.
Repetitively redundant.
 
Actually, my friend, I believe a lot of things that do not line up with Churchianity teaching. I believe that the Book of Enoch lines up with the Bible. If you do not, don't read it. Simple as that.
That line about the wicked and Godless being removed, in the Book of Enoch it reads, not removed, but destroyed. and God blessing those faithful who are still on the Earth in those days. What's the problem with that? I already told you in other posts that not all "Christians" will be caught up in the rapture...Some WILL go into the tribulation period. The BIBLE backs that one up....The bride is caught up. And I told you who the bride is....The one who has made herself ready.....
Personally I think you are fighting this so hard because it scares you.....You need to find out why it scares you.


Well -- it's still not accurate -- the wicked and Godless Will be destroyed in the very end. The rapture was being talked about. And That is simply not true at the time of the rapture. Scripture tells us that all born-again believers will be taken up and everyone else will be left down here.

And, yes, you Have said a couple of times that not all believers will be raptured up. So, you Do believe in a partial rapture which is Not Scriptural. And we don't agree on who the Bride of Christ is -- because it Is the Church.

You believe that it's okay to believe everything in all the non-Canonical books.. Well -- a person ends up with some false teachings.
 
Well -- it's still not accurate -- the wicked and Godless Will be destroyed in the very end. The rapture was being talked about. And That is simply not true at the time of the rapture. Scripture tells us that all born-again believers will be taken up and everyone else will be left down here.

And, yes, you Have said a couple of times that not all believers will be raptured up. So, you Do believe in a partial rapture which is Not Scriptural. And we don't agree on who the Bride of Christ is -- because it Is the Church.

You believe that it's okay to believe everything in all the non-Canonical books.. Well -- a person ends up with some false teachings.
:smile: The rapture is being spoken of and the second coming as well.

You'll have to show me the scriptures that say all born again believers are raptured
 
Bendito -- The rapture ( of the Church) is going to happen at any time -- no one except the Father in heaven knows when. No one is to try setting a time or day.
The 2nd coming is when Christ returns to this earth to reign for 1,000 yrs. and, also, no one knows when This will happen. "we" can observe world events leading up to it.
But -- the 7 yrs. of tribulation have to happen first.

So, yes, I would agree with you generally speaking.
 
@B AC ---- then where did the demons come from that Jesus was casting out of the people?

And why do missionaries find people being demon- possessed in some of the African or other countries as well as witch doctors. It makes the most sense that when Lucifer and his rebellious angel friends were kicked out of heaven and thrown down here to earth -- that they became the world of demonic activity. Putting two and two together, a person gets. But I will see what Scripture specifically says. Look at Revelation 12 : 7-9 " And there was a war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down -- that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him."

sort of sounds like That is where they came from.

Then in James 2:19 "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that -- and shudder."

And Ephesians 6:12 -- the armor of God -- that we fight against principalities -- the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
 

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