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Giants...Again.

Loyal
At one point, in one forum, somebody asked me a question and I did not get to it....The question was to the point....Is there salvation for the giants, the fallen angels or the Nephilim at large. The giants do fit into the Nephilim classification but they are called Raphaim. This is my answer.
Rather than bore you with my own writing style, I'll share the work of my friend Tom Horn. His research is definitely parallel to mine but I feel he says it better. It's a bit of a long read for some....and some will no doubt reject it because it's drawn from several sources. Good sources but some people....
**************************************************************************************************
The legend of the Days of Noah and what happened then is recorded in numerous ancient texts within
every major culture of the ancient world, where the astonishingly consistent story is told of “gods”
that descended from heaven and materialized in bodies of flesh. From Rome to Greece—and before
that, to Egypt, Persia, Assyria, Babylonia, and Sumer—the earliest records of civilization tell of the
era when powerful beings known to the Hebrews as Watchers and in the book of Genesis as the benei
ha-elohim (sons of God) mingled themselves with humans, giving birth to part-celestial, part terrestrial hybrids known as Nephilim. The Bible says this happened when men began to increase on
earth and daughters were born to them. When the sons of God saw the women’s beauty, they took
wives from among them to sire their unusual offspring. In Genesis 6:4 we read the following account:
“There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto
the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old,
men of renown.”
When this Scripture is compared with other ancient texts, including Enoch, Jubilees, Baruch, Genesis
Apocryphon, Philo, Josephus, Jasher, and others, it unfolds to some that the giants of the Old
Testament, such as Goliath, were the part-human, part-animal, part-angelic offspring of a supernatural
interruption into the divine order and natural evolution of the species. This was certainly the view of
most, if not all, of the Ante-Nicene church fathers including Athenagoras, Commodianus, Julius
Africanus, et al. The apocryphal book of Enoch gives a name to the angels involved in this cosmic
conspiracy, calling them “Watchers.” We read:
And I Enoch was blessing the Lord of majesty and the King of the ages, and lo! the Watchers called
me—Enoch the scribe—and said to me: “Enoch, thou scribe of righteousness, go, declare to the
Watchers of the heaven who have left the high heaven, the holy eternal place, and have defiled
themselves with women, and have done as the children of earth do, and have taken unto themselves
wives: Ye have wrought great destruction on the earth: And ye shall have no peace nor forgiveness of
sin: and inasmuch as they delight themselves in their children [the Nephilim], The murder of their
beloved ones shall they see, and over the destruction of their children shall they lament, and shall
make supplication unto eternity, but mercy and peace shall ye not attain.” (1 Enoch 10:3-8)
According to Enoch, two hundred of these powerful angels departed “high heaven” and used human
DNA to extend their progeny into mankind's plane of existence. The Interlinear Hebrew Bible offers
an interesting interpretation of Genesis 6:2 in this regard. Where the King James Bible says, “The
sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair” (brackets in original), the IHN interprets
this as, “The benei Elohim saw the daughters of Adam, that they were fit extensions.” The term “fit
extensions” seems applicable when the whole of the ancient record is understood to mean that the
Watchers wanted to leave their proper sphere of existence in order to enter Earths three-dimensional
reality. They viewed women—or at least their genetic material— as part of the formula for
accomplishing this task. Departing the proper habitation that God had assigned them was grievous to
the Lord and led to divine penalization. Jude described it this way: The “angels which kept not their
first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto
the judgment of the great day” (Jude 6:6).
Besides apocryphal, pseudepigraphic, and Jewish traditions related to the legend of the Watchers and
the “mighty men” born of their union with humans, mythologized accounts tell the stories of “gods”
using humans to produce heroes or demigods (half-gods). When the ancient Greek version of the
Hebrew Old Testament (the LXX or Septuagint) was made, the word “Nephilim”—referring to the
part-human offspring of the Watchers—was translated “gegenes,” a word implying “Earth-born.” This
same terminology was used to describe the Greek Titans and other legendary heroes of part-celestial
and part-terrestrial origin, such as Hercules (born of Zeus and the mortal Alcmena), Achilles (the
Trojan hero son of Thetis and Peleus), and Gilgamesh (the two-thirds god and one-third human child
of Lugalbanda and Ninsun).
These demigods were likewise accompanied in texts and idol representation by half-animal and halfhuman creatures like centaurs (the part-human, part-horse offspring of Apollo’s son, Centaurus),
chimeras, furies, satyrs, gorgons, nymphs, Minotaur's, and other genetic aberrations. This is seen as
indication that the Watchers not only modified human DNA during the construction of the Nephilim,
but animals as well—a point the book of Enoch supports, saying in the seventh chapter that the fallen
angels “sinned” against animals as well as humans. Other books such as Jubilees add that this
interspecies mingling eventually resulted in mutations among normal humans and animals whose
“flesh” (genetic makeup) was “corrupted” by the activity, presumably through crossbreeding (see
Jubilees 5:1-5; 7:21-25). Even the Old Testament contains reference to the genetic mutations that
developed among humans following this time frame, including “men” of unusual size, physical
strength, six fingers, six toes, animal appetite for blood, and even lion-like features (2 Samuel 21:20;
23:20).
Perhaps of all ancient records, the most telling extra-biblical script is from the book of Jasher, a
mostly-forgotten text referred to in the Bible in Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18. Jasher records the
familiar story of the fall of the Watchers, and then adds an exceptional detail that none of the other
texts is as unequivocal about, something that can only be understood in modern language to mean
advanced biotechnology, genetic engineering, or “transgenic modification” of species. After the
Watchers had instructed humans “in the secrets of heaven,” note what Jasher says occurred: “[Then]
the sons of men [began teaching] the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order
therewith to provoke the Lord” (Jasher 4:18).
The phrase “the mixture of animals of one species with the other” cannot mean Watchers had taught
men hybridization, as this would not have “provoked the Lord.” God made like animals of different
breeds capable of reproducing. For example, horses can propagate with other mammals of the
Equidae classification (the taxonomic “horse family”), including donkeys and zebras.
It would not have “provoked the Lord” for this type of animal breeding to have taken place, as God,
Himself, made the animals able to do this.
If, on the other hand, like trans-humanists James Hughes and Nick Bostrom propose, the Watchers
were crossing species boundaries by mixing incompatible animals of one species with the other, such
as a horse with a human (centaur), this would have been a different matter and may cast light on the
numerous ancient stories of mythical beings of variant-species manufacturing that fit perfectly within
the records of what the Watchers were accomplishing. Understandably, this kind of chimera-making
would have “provoked the Lord,” and it raises the serious question of why the Watchers would have
risked eternal damnation by tinkering with God’s creation in this way. Yahweh had placed boundaries
between the species and strictly ordered that “each kind” reproduce only after its “own kind.” Was
the motive of the Watchers to break these rules simply the desire to rebel, to assault God’s creative
genius through biologically altering what He had made? Or was something of deeper significance
behind the activity?
Some believe the corruption of antediluvian DNA by Watchers was an effort to cut off the birth line of
the Messiah. This theory posits that Satan understood the protoevangelium— the promise in Genesis
3:15 that a Savior would be born, the seed of the woman, and that He would destroy the fallen angel’s
power. Satan’s followers therefore intermingled with the human race in a conspiracy to stop the birth
of Christ. If human DNA could be universally corrupted or “demonized,” they reasoned, no Savior
would be born and mankind would be lost forever. Those who support this theory believe this is why
God ordered
His people to maintain a pure bloodline and not to intermarry with the other nations. When Israel
breached this command and the mutated DNA began rapidly spreading among men and animals, God
instructed Noah to build an ark and to prepare for a flood that would destroy every living thing. That
God had to send such a universal fiat like the Flood illustrates how widespread the altered DNA
eventually became. In fact, the Bible says in Genesis 6:9 that only Noah, and by extension his
children, were found “perfect” in their generation. The Hebrew word for “perfect” in this case is
tamiym, which means “without blemish” or “healthy,” the same word used in Leviticus to describe an
unblemished, sacrificial lamb. The meaning was not that Noah was morally perfect, but that his
physical makeup—his DNA—had not been contaminated with Nephilim descent, as apparently the
rest of the world had become. In order to preserve mankind as He had made them, God destroyed all
but Noah’s family in the Flood. The ancient records including those of the Bible appear to agree with
this theology, consistently describing the cause of the Flood as happening in response to “all flesh”
having become “corrupted, both man and beast.”
An Alternative Reason the Watchers Blended DNA
While the author of this paper believes the theory of “DNA corruption as an intended method for
halting the coming of Christ” has merit, an alternative or additional reason the Watchers may have
blended living organisms exists. This theory is original with me and grew from my need to
incorporate the voluminous historical texts, which described this peculiar history, into a consistent
account corresponding with consistent Scriptural interpretation.
To harmonize the ancient records, I came to believe (after six thousand pages and over a decade of
research) that the overriding motive for whatever the Watchers were doing with the DNA of various
species had to be understood within the context of their foremost goal, which was to leave their plane
of existence and to enter ours. My challenge then became to answer the question how blending
various species would satisfy this goal or provide Watchers with a method of departure from “high
heaven” and incarnation into man’s “habitation.” While I cannot take time in this paper to explain
every detail, I eventually hypothesized that the Watchers blended species in the way they did in order
to create a soulless or spiritless body into which they could extend themselves. The rationale is that
every creature as it existed originally had its beginning in God, who ordered each creature to
reproduce “after its own kind.” The phrase, “after its own kind,” verifies what kind of spirit can enter
into an intelligent being at conception. When the ***** of a dog meets ovum of a dog and the life of a
dog is formed, at the first spark of life the spirit or personality of a dog enters that embryo and it
grows to become a dog in spirit and form. The spirit of a man does not enter it, in the same way that a
man is not born with the spirit of a horse or cow. This creature/spirit integrity is part of the divine
order and would have kept the Watchers, who wanted to incarnate within the human realm (not just
“possess” creatures), from displacing the spirits of humans or animals and replacing them with their
own. How did they overcome this problem? Like some transhumanists advocate for and scientists are
doing today, it appears based on the ancient records that they blended existing DNA of several living
creatures and made something that neither the spirit of man or beast would enter at conception, for it
was neither man nor beast. As Mysterious World, in its 2003 feature, “Giants in the Earth,” noted:
The Nephilim were genetically manufactured beings created from the genetic material of various preexisting animal species... The fallen angels did not personally interbreed with the daughters of men,
but used their godlike intellect to delve into the secrets of YHWH's Creation and manipulate it to their
own purposes. And the key to creating or recreating man, as we have (re)discovered in the twentieth
century, is the human genome—DNA.”
This manipulation of living tissue by the fallen angels led to an unusual body made up of human,
animal, and plant genetics known as Nephilim, an “earth-born” facsimile or “fit extension” into which
they could incarnate. Some students of prophecy envision the same science being used in modern
times to revive extinct animals or Nephilim, or to create newly-engineered versions of demigods and
mythological animals as part of the coming kingdom of Antichrist. This is because as interbreeding
begins between transgenic animals, genetically modified humans, and species as God made them, the
altered DNA will quickly migrate into the natural environment, and when that happens (as is already
occurring among genetically modified plants and animals), “alien” and/or animal characteristics will
be introduced to the human gene pool and spread through intermarriage, altering the human genetic
code and eventually eliminating humanity as we know it. This is what happened before the Great
Flood, according to many theologians, and perhaps that has been the whole idea for the end-times as
well—to create a generation of genetically altered humans to serve as “fit extensions” for the
resurrection of underworld Nephilim hordes in preparation of Armageddon
******************************************************************************************
If you made it this far, you can see where there is no salvation for the fallen angels or any of their offspring. Even the children of these creatures are full of evil only, dedicated and sworn to the destruction of God and His people.
 
Active
At one point, in one forum, somebody asked me a question and I did not get to it....The question was to the point....Is there salvation for the giants, the fallen angels or the Nephilim at large. The giants do fit into the Nephilim classification but they are called Raphaim. This is my answer.
Rather than bore you with my own writing style, I'll share the work of my friend Tom Horn. His research is definitely parallel to mine but I feel he says it better. It's a bit of a long read for some....and some will no doubt reject it because it's drawn from several sources. Good sources but some people....
**************************************************************************************************
The legend of the Days of Noah and what happened then is recorded in numerous ancient texts within
every major culture of the ancient world, where the astonishingly consistent story is told of “gods”
that descended from heaven and materialized in bodies of flesh. From Rome to Greece—and before
that, to Egypt, Persia, Assyria, Babylonia, and Sumer—the earliest records of civilization tell of the
era when powerful beings known to the Hebrews as Watchers and in the book of Genesis as the benei
ha-elohim (sons of God) mingled themselves with humans, giving birth to part-celestial, part terrestrial hybrids known as Nephilim. The Bible says this happened when men began to increase on
earth and daughters were born to them. When the sons of God saw the women’s beauty, they took
wives from among them to sire their unusual offspring. In Genesis 6:4 we read the following account:
“There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto
the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old,
men of renown.”
When this Scripture is compared with other ancient texts, including Enoch, Jubilees, Baruch, Genesis
Apocryphon, Philo, Josephus, Jasher, and others, it unfolds to some that the giants of the Old
Testament, such as Goliath, were the part-human, part-animal, part-angelic offspring of a supernatural
interruption into the divine order and natural evolution of the species. This was certainly the view of
most, if not all, of the Ante-Nicene church fathers including Athenagoras, Commodianus, Julius
Africanus, et al. The apocryphal book of Enoch gives a name to the angels involved in this cosmic
conspiracy, calling them “Watchers.” We read:
And I Enoch was blessing the Lord of majesty and the King of the ages, and lo! the Watchers called
me—Enoch the scribe—and said to me: “Enoch, thou scribe of righteousness, go, declare to the
Watchers of the heaven who have left the high heaven, the holy eternal place, and have defiled
themselves with women, and have done as the children of earth do, and have taken unto themselves
wives: Ye have wrought great destruction on the earth: And ye shall have no peace nor forgiveness of
sin: and inasmuch as they delight themselves in their children [the Nephilim], The murder of their
beloved ones shall they see, and over the destruction of their children shall they lament, and shall
make supplication unto eternity, but mercy and peace shall ye not attain.” (1 Enoch 10:3-8)
According to Enoch, two hundred of these powerful angels departed “high heaven” and used human
DNA to extend their progeny into mankind's plane of existence. The Interlinear Hebrew Bible offers
an interesting interpretation of Genesis 6:2 in this regard. Where the King James Bible says, “The
sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair” (brackets in original), the IHN interprets
this as, “The benei Elohim saw the daughters of Adam, that they were fit extensions.” The term “fit
extensions” seems applicable when the whole of the ancient record is understood to mean that the
Watchers wanted to leave their proper sphere of existence in order to enter Earths three-dimensional
reality. They viewed women—or at least their genetic material— as part of the formula for
accomplishing this task. Departing the proper habitation that God had assigned them was grievous to
the Lord and led to divine penalization. Jude described it this way: The “angels which kept not their
first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto
the judgment of the great day” (Jude 6:6).
Besides apocryphal, pseudepigraphic, and Jewish traditions related to the legend of the Watchers and
the “mighty men” born of their union with humans, mythologized accounts tell the stories of “gods”
using humans to produce heroes or demigods (half-gods). When the ancient Greek version of the
Hebrew Old Testament (the LXX or Septuagint) was made, the word “Nephilim”—referring to the
part-human offspring of the Watchers—was translated “gegenes,” a word implying “Earth-born.” This
same terminology was used to describe the Greek Titans and other legendary heroes of part-celestial
and part-terrestrial origin, such as Hercules (born of Zeus and the mortal Alcmena), Achilles (the
Trojan hero son of Thetis and Peleus), and Gilgamesh (the two-thirds god and one-third human child
of Lugalbanda and Ninsun).
These demigods were likewise accompanied in texts and idol representation by half-animal and halfhuman creatures like centaurs (the part-human, part-horse offspring of Apollo’s son, Centaurus),
chimeras, furies, satyrs, gorgons, nymphs, Minotaur's, and other genetic aberrations. This is seen as
indication that the Watchers not only modified human DNA during the construction of the Nephilim,
but animals as well—a point the book of Enoch supports, saying in the seventh chapter that the fallen
angels “sinned” against animals as well as humans. Other books such as Jubilees add that this
interspecies mingling eventually resulted in mutations among normal humans and animals whose
“flesh” (genetic makeup) was “corrupted” by the activity, presumably through crossbreeding (see
Jubilees 5:1-5; 7:21-25). Even the Old Testament contains reference to the genetic mutations that
developed among humans following this time frame, including “men” of unusual size, physical
strength, six fingers, six toes, animal appetite for blood, and even lion-like features (2 Samuel 21:20;
23:20).
Perhaps of all ancient records, the most telling extra-biblical script is from the book of Jasher, a
mostly-forgotten text referred to in the Bible in Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18. Jasher records the
familiar story of the fall of the Watchers, and then adds an exceptional detail that none of the other
texts is as unequivocal about, something that can only be understood in modern language to mean
advanced biotechnology, genetic engineering, or “transgenic modification” of species. After the
Watchers had instructed humans “in the secrets of heaven,” note what Jasher says occurred: “[Then]
the sons of men [began teaching] the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order
therewith to provoke the Lord” (Jasher 4:18).
The phrase “the mixture of animals of one species with the other” cannot mean Watchers had taught
men hybridization, as this would not have “provoked the Lord.” God made like animals of different
breeds capable of reproducing. For example, horses can propagate with other mammals of the
Equidae classification (the taxonomic “horse family”), including donkeys and zebras.
It would not have “provoked the Lord” for this type of animal breeding to have taken place, as God,
Himself, made the animals able to do this.
If, on the other hand, like trans-humanists James Hughes and Nick Bostrom propose, the Watchers
were crossing species boundaries by mixing incompatible animals of one species with the other, such
as a horse with a human (centaur), this would have been a different matter and may cast light on the
numerous ancient stories of mythical beings of variant-species manufacturing that fit perfectly within
the records of what the Watchers were accomplishing. Understandably, this kind of chimera-making
would have “provoked the Lord,” and it raises the serious question of why the Watchers would have
risked eternal damnation by tinkering with God’s creation in this way. Yahweh had placed boundaries
between the species and strictly ordered that “each kind” reproduce only after its “own kind.” Was
the motive of the Watchers to break these rules simply the desire to rebel, to assault God’s creative
genius through biologically altering what He had made? Or was something of deeper significance
behind the activity?
Some believe the corruption of antediluvian DNA by Watchers was an effort to cut off the birth line of
the Messiah. This theory posits that Satan understood the protoevangelium— the promise in Genesis
3:15 that a Savior would be born, the seed of the woman, and that He would destroy the fallen angel’s
power. Satan’s followers therefore intermingled with the human race in a conspiracy to stop the birth
of Christ. If human DNA could be universally corrupted or “demonized,” they reasoned, no Savior
would be born and mankind would be lost forever. Those who support this theory believe this is why
God ordered
His people to maintain a pure bloodline and not to intermarry with the other nations. When Israel
breached this command and the mutated DNA began rapidly spreading among men and animals, God
instructed Noah to build an ark and to prepare for a flood that would destroy every living thing. That
God had to send such a universal fiat like the Flood illustrates how widespread the altered DNA
eventually became. In fact, the Bible says in Genesis 6:9 that only Noah, and by extension his
children, were found “perfect” in their generation. The Hebrew word for “perfect” in this case is
tamiym, which means “without blemish” or “healthy,” the same word used in Leviticus to describe an
unblemished, sacrificial lamb. The meaning was not that Noah was morally perfect, but that his
physical makeup—his DNA—had not been contaminated with Nephilim descent, as apparently the
rest of the world had become. In order to preserve mankind as He had made them, God destroyed all
but Noah’s family in the Flood. The ancient records including those of the Bible appear to agree with
this theology, consistently describing the cause of the Flood as happening in response to “all flesh”
having become “corrupted, both man and beast.”
An Alternative Reason the Watchers Blended DNA
While the author of this paper believes the theory of “DNA corruption as an intended method for
halting the coming of Christ” has merit, an alternative or additional reason the Watchers may have
blended living organisms exists. This theory is original with me and grew from my need to
incorporate the voluminous historical texts, which described this peculiar history, into a consistent
account corresponding with consistent Scriptural interpretation.
To harmonize the ancient records, I came to believe (after six thousand pages and over a decade of
research) that the overriding motive for whatever the Watchers were doing with the DNA of various
species had to be understood within the context of their foremost goal, which was to leave their plane
of existence and to enter ours. My challenge then became to answer the question how blending
various species would satisfy this goal or provide Watchers with a method of departure from “high
heaven” and incarnation into man’s “habitation.” While I cannot take time in this paper to explain
every detail, I eventually hypothesized that the Watchers blended species in the way they did in order
to create a soulless or spiritless body into which they could extend themselves. The rationale is that
every creature as it existed originally had its beginning in God, who ordered each creature to
reproduce “after its own kind.” The phrase, “after its own kind,” verifies what kind of spirit can enter
into an intelligent being at conception. When the ***** of a dog meets ovum of a dog and the life of a
dog is formed, at the first spark of life the spirit or personality of a dog enters that embryo and it
grows to become a dog in spirit and form. The spirit of a man does not enter it, in the same way that a
man is not born with the spirit of a horse or cow. This creature/spirit integrity is part of the divine
order and would have kept the Watchers, who wanted to incarnate within the human realm (not just
“possess” creatures), from displacing the spirits of humans or animals and replacing them with their
own. How did they overcome this problem? Like some transhumanists advocate for and scientists are
doing today, it appears based on the ancient records that they blended existing DNA of several living
creatures and made something that neither the spirit of man or beast would enter at conception, for it
was neither man nor beast. As Mysterious World, in its 2003 feature, “Giants in the Earth,” noted:
The Nephilim were genetically manufactured beings created from the genetic material of various preexisting animal species... The fallen angels did not personally interbreed with the daughters of men,
but used their godlike intellect to delve into the secrets of YHWH's Creation and manipulate it to their
own purposes. And the key to creating or recreating man, as we have (re)discovered in the twentieth
century, is the human genome—DNA.”
This manipulation of living tissue by the fallen angels led to an unusual body made up of human,
animal, and plant genetics known as Nephilim, an “earth-born” facsimile or “fit extension” into which
they could incarnate. Some students of prophecy envision the same science being used in modern
times to revive extinct animals or Nephilim, or to create newly-engineered versions of demigods and
mythological animals as part of the coming kingdom of Antichrist. This is because as interbreeding
begins between transgenic animals, genetically modified humans, and species as God made them, the
altered DNA will quickly migrate into the natural environment, and when that happens (as is already
occurring among genetically modified plants and animals), “alien” and/or animal characteristics will
be introduced to the human gene pool and spread through intermarriage, altering the human genetic
code and eventually eliminating humanity as we know it. This is what happened before the Great
Flood, according to many theologians, and perhaps that has been the whole idea for the end-times as
well—to create a generation of genetically altered humans to serve as “fit extensions” for the
resurrection of underworld Nephilim hordes in preparation of Armageddon
******************************************************************************************
If you made it this far, you can see where there is no salvation for the fallen angels or any of their offspring. Even the children of these creatures are full of evil only, dedicated and sworn to the destruction of God and His people.
I have once or twice wondered how many beings other than God intended caught on to the genetic concept such as revealed to Jacob in
Genesis 30:41 (KJV)
41 And it came to pass, whensoever the stronger cattle did conceive, that Jacob laid the rods before the eyes of the cattle in the gutters, that they might conceive among the rods.

So possibly the giants were not at all of the DNA of fallen angels entering humanity, looking for a new place to thrive, having fallen and become homeless. Hummmm. Perhaps that's why it only took faithful teenager David to conquer Goliath and his brethren. Goliath was a GMO human, neither fully human nor angelic. He was more like a noxious weed. Possible.
 
Last edited:
Loyal
I have once or twice wondered how many beings other than God intended caught on to the genetic concept such as revealed to Jacob in
Genesis 30:41 (KJV)
41 And it came to pass, whensoever the stronger cattle did conceive, that Jacob laid the rods before the eyes of the cattle in the gutters, that they might conceive among the rods.

So possibly the giants were not at all of the DNA of fallen angels entering humanity, looking for a new place to thrive, having fallen and become homeless. Hummmm. Perhaps that's why it only took faithful teenager David to conquer Goliath nd his brethren. Goliath was a GMO human, neither fully human nor angelic. He was more like a noxious weed. Possible.
And David's sling was the weed killer Satans genetic manipulation project started right at the beginning of mankind's history
 
Loyal
It seems that angels are not men.

Heb 2:7; "YOU HAVE MADE HIM FOR A LITTLE WHILE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS; YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR, AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
Heb 2:9; But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

It seems that men are "lower" than the angels. Angels are "lower" than God in the over all scheme of things.
Perhaps Giants are somewhere in the middle, not angels, but not men either.

My take has always been that Satan tried to taint the bloodline of men. God gave man dominion over the earth. We were told to conquer it and subdue it.
I think Satan wanted to make sure it wasn't man who inherited the earth.

I notice that angels can never be redeemed. Once they fall, the die is cast for eternity. Was it the same for giants? Maybe, but then maybe giants were never really "meant to be".
In any case, there is no where recorded in the Bible where an angel tried to repent, or a giant tried to seek salvation.
 
Active
I wonder how deep the tinkering of our food supply is going into perdition with GMO. There's a need to feed the world cheaper, but......
 
Loyal
It seems that angels are not men.

Heb 2:7; "YOU HAVE MADE HIM FOR A LITTLE WHILE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS; YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR, AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
Heb 2:9; But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

It seems that men are "lower" than the angels. Angels are "lower" than God in the over all scheme of things.
Perhaps Giants are somewhere in the middle, not angels, but not men either.

My take has always been that Satan tried to taint the bloodline of men. God gave man dominion over the earth. We were told to conquer it and subdue it.
I think Satan wanted to make sure it wasn't man who inherited the earth.

I notice that angels can never be redeemed. Once they fall, the die is cast for eternity. Was it the same for giants? Maybe, but then maybe giants were never really "meant to be".
In any case, there is no where recorded in the Bible where an angel tried to repent, or a giant tried to seek salvation.
Yes..The offspring of the fallen angels were/are under the same penalty/ curse as the angels themselves. As you pointed out, salvation is only for humans...Mankind.
 
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It seems that angels are not men.

Heb 2:7; "YOU HAVE MADE HIM FOR A LITTLE WHILE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS; YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR, AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
Heb 2:9; But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

It seems that men are "lower" than the angels. Angels are "lower" than God in the over all scheme of things.
Perhaps Giants are somewhere in the middle, not angels, but not men either.

My take has always been that Satan tried to taint the bloodline of men. God gave man dominion over the earth. We were told to conquer it and subdue it.
I think Satan wanted to make sure it wasn't man who inherited the earth.

I notice that angels can never be redeemed. Once they fall, the die is cast for eternity. Was it the same for giants? Maybe, but then maybe giants were never really "meant to be".
In any case, there is no where recorded in the Bible where an angel tried to repent, or a giant tried to seek salvation.
Interesting that our GMO foods are becoming less identifiable by the body as potential nutritional sources. Even the food is perverted! It's also interesting that theory explains how giants made it through the Flood. It wasn't their DNA, but a rod concept like given by God to Jacob, only perverted by Satan to intercept the potential bloodline of Jesus. He was so close to success, but for the fullness of time intercepting him.
 
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Yes..The offspring of the fallen angels were/are under the same penalty/ curse as the angels themselves. As you pointed out, salvation is only for humans...Mankind.
Now I begin to doubt angels have children born to them. They were directly created by God to serve Him. To Adam and Eve He commanded reproduction. It appears to me the population of angels is finite, set before the foundations of the earth, incapable of reproduction. A third of them are chained in the bottomless pit, to be released upon the people in the last days. Two thirds (innumerable) remain. They apparently can't die, so there's no need to propagate them. That fully explains why the Law was so careful to prohibit intermarriage for Jews and gentiles, not for normal genetic reasons, but for meddling with existing human DNA potentials by extraordinary interference, something along the lines of human cloning.
 
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I wonder how the patriarchs like Methuselah made it to within a week of the Noahic flood, staying straight with God. There is no telling how many brethren of Adam lived right up to that day. I can see that quandary for the folks today subject to Jesus' return. I don't need this right before bedtime, so I'll stop thinking about it right now
 
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Oh boy. Well, it says the giants were there first. It might be the fallen angels, after the giants appeared, inspired offspring between those giants and normal human women. The giants might be considered equal in status to the angelic "sons of God", though the giants were the GMO humans inspired by the fallen angels corrupting normal men and women. God is on record calling human judges "sons of God". The men of renown might have been the earliest, but profoundly corrupt pseudo human judges, more physical than the judges of the book of Judges.

So I can see a dual problem for normal humans, giants around, and half breed humans competing for power. Nite night.
 
Loyal
I wonder how the patriarchs like Methuselah made it to within a week of the Noahic flood, staying straight with God. There is no telling how many brethren of Adam lived right up to that day. I can see that quandary for the folks today subject to Jesus' return. I don't need this right before bedtime, so I'll stop thinking about it right now
Was Methuselah the last to die before the flood? Perhaps. I know of no other patriarchs who were alive then died at that time. I find it interesting that Christian scholars argue over whether or not Methuselah died in the flood....If he was alive I have no doubt he would have been on the ark. LOL You go to bed. I'm supposed to be working here. A book doesn't write itself.
 
Loyal
Interesting that our GMO foods are becoming less identifiable by the body as potential nutritional sources. Even the food is perverted! It's also interesting that theory explains how giants made it through the Flood. It wasn't their DNA, but a rod concept like given by God to Jacob, only perverted by Satan to intercept the potential bloodline of Jesus. He was so close to success, but for the fullness of time intercepting him.
I'm not sure how that would work my friend...Jacob's Stick Trick with sheep, goats, & cattle
 
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I'm not sure how that would work my friend...Jacob's Stick Trick with sheep, goats, & cattle
It's a matter of genetic manipulation. In Jacob's time it was a matter of helping out "speciation", aiding in the preferred choice of mates. That was accomplished in nature, rediscovered by revelation to Jacob, then again to Gregor Mendel, the "father of genetics" for our era. So now today geneticists can remove a single part of a gene, then replace it with a desired part, manipulating the DNA sequencing to produce a desired outcome. Ever wonder why basketball players have gotten so tall and can become almost super-human? Some parents saw the thing coming, focusing on producing children that might make them wealthy. Some worked on genius capacities, and others for talents like music. In addition, coaches look for candidates around the world, grooming some to become stars. Manipulation of humans continues on.
 
Loyal
It's a matter of genetic manipulation. In Jacob's time it was a matter of helping out "speciation", aiding in the preferred choice of mates. That was accomplished in nature, rediscovered by revelation to Jacob, then again to Gregor Mendel, the "father of genetics" for our era. So now today geneticists can remove a single part of a gene, then replace it with a desired part, manipulating the DNA sequencing to produce a desired outcome. Ever wonder why basketball players have gotten so tall and can become almost super-human? Some parents saw the thing coming, focusing on producing children that might make them wealthy. Some worked on genius capacities, and others for talents like music. In addition, coaches look for candidates around the world, grooming some to become stars. Manipulation of humans continues on.
I don't know about that...Did you ckick the link. It appears to be a thing of diet
 
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I don't know about that...Did you ckick the link. It appears to be a thing of diet
I checked the link and went to Biblical Archaeology Society library to study what has been unearthed. Mighty men of gladiator fame had a diet the same as country folk's had, heavy on barley and vegetables. No diggings have turned up an unusual diet for large-boned people. I've met two giants who suffered "giantism", a genetic disorder. One of them was at least 8 feet tall, with a head larger than a basketball, with a very loud voice you could not avoid. He was part of a special needs group shopping together at a grocery store, a little shy of normal acting, his cart full of snacks. If he were outfitted in armor and put to battle I figure many would flee at the sight of him. But most folks here knew he was gentle as a lamb.
 
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Was Methuselah the last to die before the flood? Perhaps. I know of no other patriarchs who were alive then died at that time. I find it interesting that Christian scholars argue over whether or not Methuselah died in the flood....If he was alive I have no doubt he would have been on the ark. LOL You go to bed. I'm supposed to be working here. A book doesn't write itself.
Taking Genesis genaelogies literally, practically all of Adam's proginy probably lived right up to and into the Flood. Adam's bones would still have had some hair attached to his corpse, having died just 120 years before Noah was born.
 
Loyal
I checked the link and went to Biblical Archaeology Society library to study what has been unearthed. Mighty men of gladiator fame had a diet the same as country folk's had, heavy on barley and vegetables. No diggings have turned up an unusual diet for large-boned people. I've met two giants who suffered "giantism", a genetic disorder. One of them was at least 8 feet tall, with a head larger than a basketball, with a very loud voice you could not avoid. He was part of a special needs group shopping together at a grocery store, a little shy of normal acting, his cart full of snacks. If he were outfitted in armor and put to battle I figure many would flee at the sight of him. But most folks here knew he was gentle as a lamb.
My friend....Those you met with gigantism were not giants of the type we're discussing...They were human, through and through...The giants we're talking about included meats fruits grains veggies and humans...oh yeah...They also ate each other.
 
Loyal
Taking Genesis genaelogies literally, practically all of Adam's proginy probably lived right up to and into the Flood. Adam's bones would still have had some hair attached to his corpse, having died just 120 years before Noah was born.
Possibly but if any of Gods people were on the Earth at the time of the flood, they would have been on the ark.
 
Member
If there are no fallen angels existing in the Old Testament - and the fallen angels do not exist until the New Testament when they make war in heaven and are then tt this time - thrown out of heaven when Yahoshua comes to earth.

How can the giants be the product of fallen angels which did not even exist at this time.
 

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