• Welcome to Talk Jesus

    A true bible based, Jesus centered online community. Join over 13,000 members today

    Register Log In

Get Behind Me Satan!

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Member
Peter 3:15-16 Simply proclaim the Lord Christ is holy in your hearts, and always have your answer ready for people who ask you the reason for the hope that you have. But give it with courtesy and respect and with a clear conscience, so that those who slander your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their accusations. And if it is the will of God that you should suffer, it is better to suffer for doing right than for doing wrong.

Our relationships with God are so personal; it is sometimes difficult to address certain questions without getting defensive. Or sometimes in our zeal or passion, totally of God, we can go too far, not taking into account where our audience is in their walk with the Lord, potentially causing more harm than good. But we are still responsible to give an answer. To have an answer.

A very sobering thought is that the Pharisees, the religious leaders of their times, (people that had incredibly large portions of the Old Testament memorized), the group with the answers, were the population of people that Jesus was the most upset with. Sometimes religious leaders topple, showing that what appeared to be fruit, was just a good show. We are reminded of something we thought was of God, wasn't His will at all.

Perhaps there are things we can't know - the Spirit will keep them hidden. However, if we are to have an answer, there are some fundamental things that we need to account for. One of those, I believe is discerning who is of the Lord and who is not. I have several reasons for this, but I want to briefly back track.

To get back to the example of the Pharisees, Jesus did discern this but then again, He was (and is) God. But He also told us to break evil bondage with fasting and prayer (Mk 9:29), to be wise as serpents (Mt 10:16), and that Satan can carry away a seed that does not take root in good soil (Mk 4:15). Other passages tell us about spiritual attacks, but clearly Jesus expected us to recognize and name evil.

Jesus also told his disciple Peter Get behind me Satan.(Mt 16:23 and Mk 8:33) Clearly, He was not saying, Peter you are going to hell. He was saying, Peter, you are obstructing the will of God.

Scott Peck (MD), in his book, The People of the Lie, writes,
"To proceed we need at least a working definition of evil. Yet in our hearts I think we all have some understanding of its nature. For the moment I can do no better than to heed my son, who, with the characteristic vision of eight year olds, explained simply, Why, Daddy, evil is live spelled backwards. Evil is in opposition to life. It is that which opposes the life force. It has, in short, to do with killing. Specifically, it has to do with murder, namely unnecessary killing, killing that is no required for biological survival."

He goes on to give several case studies of people he has treated, only two of which have to do with demon possession. What struck me most about the book was the clever subtlety of evil.

Perhaps, and hopefully, the scripture verse "Do not judge" has come to mind. Peck addresses this scripture better than I can.

"In labeling certain people as evil, I am obviously making a severely critical value judgment. My Lord said, "Judge not, that ye be not judged," By this statement so often quoted out of context Jesus did not mean we should never judge our neighbor. For he went on to say, Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. (Mt 7:1-5) What he meant was that we should judge others only with great care, and that such carefulness begins with self-judgment.

We cannot begin to heal human evil until we are able to look at it directly.

Obviously, the plank has to be out one should always have his or her own house clean. Additionally, this implies that pastors and leaders are held to a higher standard and are responsible for their flock. It would make sense that someone who needs to discern good an evil is held to a higher standard than what they expect of others. (Jm 3:1 Only a few of you, my brothers, should be teachers, bearing in mind that we shall receive a stricter judgment.) However, this is my opinion, which, if naming what is of the Lord and what is not, is also a necessary tool. There will be things where you don't know either way. Paul sets the example for the use of this. For other cases these instructions are my own, not the Lord's. He then goes on with his opinion. (1 Co 7:12)

Paul also talks about judging and makes an interesting remark that we are to judge our brothers and sisters, but not carry these expectations for the nonbeliver. In order to to this, we must discern the believer from the non believer.

It is no concern of mine to judge outsiders. It is for you to judge those who are inside, is it not? But outsiders are for God to judge. (1 Co 5:12-13)

Although outsiders are for God to judge, a person must discern inside from out.

Discernment requires careful and prayerful attention and people should be very conservative in saying what is of the Lord and what is not of the Lord. I can't emphasize this enough. Additionally it is only through the Holy Spirit that this discernment can take place, for only God knows the true spirit of every individual.

1 Corinthians 2:10-12
God has given us revelation through the Spirit, for the Spirit explores the depths of everything, even the depths of God. After all, is there anyone who knows the qualities of God except the Spirit of God.

It is good to be very conservative with discernment of good and evil. However, I notice something in myself that seems to come up in an entire line of reasoning I have seen in others too, which borders on the spirit of timidity Paul referred to as not from God. (2 Tm 1:7) There are times I resist naming good and evil at all, for fear of being wrong. I recognize this as pride, not avoiding being judgmental. The other danger is that evil unnamed has much more power.

So I am still (and will always be)
Fighting Wormwood
 
Last edited:
Member
Hello, fww

I have just read your post, and I hear what you say. The principle thing is to keep talking about Jesus. I do not have my bible to hand, I am just reading post's and trying to help and bless. But scripture does exhort us "always to be ready to give an account of our faith" That is our business. Yours and mine!! We are in this together!!

Give an account of our faith. Tell people our story. As we do this, simply, respectfully, etc... then the result lies with Jesus.

Tell your story. How you came to Jesus. How he is with you. What He has done!!

You are invincible when you speak what you know.
s
 
Member
Amen Stephen... and discerning when what we know is something that the Spirit tells us the other can hear -- or at least wants us to speak. Just wanted to fully agree - it's all about Him. We go about His Father's business and the outcome is in His hands. I also need to remember to have faithful expectations too!
Good stuff!

:)
fww
 
Member
There are times I resist naming good and evil at all, for fear of being wrong. I recognize this as pride, not avoiding being judgmental. The other danger is that evil unnamed has much more power.

Amen! Thank you for sharing this message!
 
Member
fightngwrmwood said:
1 Peter 3:15-16 “Simply proclaim the Lord Christ is holy in your hearts, and always have your answer ready for people who ask you the reason for the hope that you have. But give it with courtesy and respect and with a clear conscience, so that those who slander your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their accusations. And if it is the will of God that you should suffer, it is better to suffer for doing right than for doing wrong.”

Our relationships with God are so personal; it is sometimes difficult to address certain questions without getting defensive. Or sometimes in our zeal or passion, totally of God, we can go too far, not taking into account where our audience is in their walk with the Lord, potentially causing more harm than good. But we are still responsible to give an answer. To have an answer.

A very sobering thought is that the Pharisees, the religious leaders of their times, (people that had incredibly large portions of the Old Testament memorized), the group with the answers, were the population of people that Jesus was the most upset with. Sometimes religious leaders topple, showing that what appeared to be fruit was just a good show. We are reminded of something we thought was of God wasn’t His will at all.

Perhaps there are things we can’t know - the Spirit will keep them hidden. However, if we are to have an answer, there are some fundamental things that we need to account for. One of those, I believe, is discerning who is of the Lord and who is not. I have several reasons for this, but I want to briefly back track.

To get back to the example of the Pharisees, Jesus did discern this but then again, he was God. But he also told us to break evil bondage with fasting and prayer (Mark 9:29), to be wise as serpents (Matthew 10:16), and that Satan can carry away a seed that does not take root in good soil (Mark 4:15). Other passages tell us about spiritual attacks, but clearly Jesus expected us to recognize and name evil.

Jesus also told his disciple Peter “Get behind me Satan.” (Matthew 16:23 and Mark 8:33) Clearly, He was not saying, Peter you are going to hell. He was saying, Peter, you are obstructing the will of God.

Scott Peck (MD), in his book, The People of the Lie, writes,
“To proceed we need at least a working definition of evil. Yet in our hearts I think we all have some understanding of its nature. For the moment I can do no better than to heed my son, who, with the characteristic vision of eight year olds, explained simply, “Why, Daddy, evil is live spelled backwards.” Evil is in opposition to life. It is that which opposes the life force. It has, in short, to do with killing. Specifically, it has to do with murder, namely unnecessary killing, killing that is no required for biological survival.”

He goes on to give several case studies of people he has treated, only two of which have to do with demon possession. What struck me most about the book was the clever subtlety of evil.

Perhaps, and hopefully, the scripture verse “Do not judge” has come to mind. Peck addresses this scripture better than I can.

“In labeling certain people as evil, I am obviously making a severely critical value judgment. My Lord said, “Judge not, that ye be not judged,” By this statement – so often quoted out of context – Jesus did not mean we should never judge our neighbor. For he went on to say, “Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” (Matthew 7:1-5) What he meant was that we should judge others only with great care, and that such carefulness begins with self-judgment.

“We cannot begin to heal human evil until we are able to look at it directly.”

Obviously, the plank has to be out – one should always have his or her own house clean. Additionally, [this] implies that pastors and leaders are held to a higher standard and are responsible for their flock. It would make sense that someone who needs to discern good an evil is held to a higher standard than what they expect of others. (James 3:1 Only a few of you, my brothers, should be teachers, bearing in mind that we shall receive a stricter judgment.) However, this is my opinion, which, if naming what is of the Lord and what is not, is also a necessary tool. There will be things where you don’t know either way. Paul sets the example for the use of this. “For other cases these instructions are my own, not the Lord’s.["] He then goes on with his opinion. (1 Cor 7:12)

Paul also talks about judging and makes an interesting remark that we are to judge our brothers and sisters, but not carry these expectations for the nonbeliever. In order to to this, we must discern the believer from the non believer.
“It is no concern of mine to judge outsiders. It is for you to judge those who are inside, is it not? But outsiders are for God to judge.” (1 Cor 5:12-13)

Although outsiders are for God to judge, a person must discern inside from out.

Discernment requires careful and prayerful attention and people should be very conservative in saying what is of the Lord and what is not of the Lord. I can’t emphasize this enough. Additionally it is only through the Holy Spirit that this discernment can take place, for only God knows the true spirit of every individual.

1 Corinthians 2:10-12
God has given us revelation through the Spirit, for the Spirit explores the depths of everything, even the depths of God. After all, is there anyone who knows the qualities of God except the Spirit of God.

It is good to be very conservative with discernment of good and evil. However, I notice something in myself that seems to come up in an entire line of reasoning, which borders on the spirit of timidity. Timothy warned against not naming good and evil at all, for fear of being wrong. I recognize this as pride, not avoiding being judgmental. The other danger is that evil unnamed has much more power.
fightngwrmwood, thanks for this thread on our Lord's requirement that we recognize and name the enemy within and without. It has drawn me for thought many times.

Dealing with the two faces of pride, the plank in one's eye and the fear of man, takes great willingness to feel the pain of conviction and acknowledge when our own pains come from grieving the Holy Spirit.

"And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light." (2 Corinthians 11:14)NKJV

"Search me, O God, and know my heart; try me, and know my anxieties;And see if there is any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting." (Psalm 139:23,24)NKJV

The plank in my eye may permit me to point a finger, yet it functions by blinding me to my own sins. Only by calling upon the Lord and allowing His work in every tiny, deep, dark corner can we have the tools to clearly recognize darkness and let our attacks on evil be in the power of His Spirit. Without this scrutiny, we often fall into the trap of becoming resentful against others for the very foibles that we cannot see in ourselves.

The fear of man keeps us worrying about what others think, so that we are unwilling to be truthful with them, or we stay silent for fear of rejection. How many of us, when listening to longtime friends or likable people, will pull no punches and be truthful face to face, if the outcome of our advisory may be that person would treat us unfavorably? Indeed, our tendency is to placate even strangers, rather than feel we have incurred enmity.

Here on the forums, it may be easier to be straight and forthright, when something stirs against the Truth. But it can remain a stumbling block, silently feeding pride, if we lack consistency of boldness in our day to day, face to face encounters with both brethren and unbelievers, as our company may often be not of our own choosing in daily dealings. We have an excellent training ground at Talk Jesus. It is crucial that we take the Christlike examples incorporated here and put them into action where courage is truly tested; both to marshal our Redeemer against our own sin and in His name to rally ourselves against evil.

I have heard Pastors' messages over the years about how to recognize whether or not impetus for correcting others comes from the Holy Spirit. One advisory I have found works is to note if negative emotions are the motivator. Especially if one often thinks of a particular person or persons one wants to "set straight," then it is not of God. If a pattern of mind or heart is to take action because we feel resentful, fretfully critical, angry, or continually annoyed and we want to make someone(s) who bothers us see the light, then be sure, the Holy Spirit is not the author of the action. Righteous anger does not seeth; it brings confidence and power in the love of Jesus. It doesn't say, "I'll show you." It says to others, "God wants you to see Him." I must emphasize, this does not refer to the words we speak, which can appear so noble, this refers only to what is within, where true motivations are between God and the believer. If the fruit of the Spirit occupies heart and prompts our minds preceding any actions, then we can be confident that our motivation for naming evil and correcting others is of the Holy Spirit. (see Galatians 5:22-23)

The growth of fruit that comes from permitting His light to reveal ourselves to ourselves becomes our power to shine the exposing light of God upon the people and world around us.

"For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) and find out what pleases the Lord." (Ephesians 5:8-10)NIV
 
Member
Amen, amen!!! Such wonderful posts! Thank you guys for posting! Between this thread and the one mejbaker started ("Do You Love Life"), it's giving me lots to chew on today! Praise God!
 
Member
[Righteous anger does not seeth; it brings confidence and power in the love of Jesus. It doesn't say, "I'll show you." It says to others, "God wants you to see Him." I must emphasize, this does not refer to the words we speak, which can appear so noble, this refers only to what is within, where true motivations are between God and the believer. If the fruit of the Spirit occupies heart and prompts our minds preceding any actions, then we can be confident that our motivation for naming evil and correcting others is of the Holy Spirit. (see Galatians 5:22-23)

(From James 1) "Remember my brothers, eveyone one should be quick to listen, but slow to speak, and slow to human anger. God's saving justice is never served by human anger, so do away with all impurities and remnants of evil. Humbly welcome the word which has been planted in you and can save your souls."

All good stuff To Christ! Your post reminded me of this verse and that our hearts of correction are in love should be absent of self-righteous indignation and full of a desire for growth for the other person. At least, for truth to be told with gentleness, - but hopefully eventually to see the other as God does.
 

Similar threads

Top