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Genesis 4, Cain and Abel

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Loyal
We've all read this a hundred times, and yet everytime I read it... there is always more.

Gen 4:1; ... and she said, "I have gotten a manchild with the help of the LORD."

It;s interesting that Eve mentions "help from the Lord" in conceiving a baby. This could be taken a number of ways.

Gen 4:2; Again, she gave birth to his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of flocks, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

Abel was a rancher, he had livestock. But Cain was a farmer and grew crops.

Gen 4:3; So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the LORD of the fruit of the ground.
Gen 4:4; Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and for his offering;
Gen 4:5; but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. So Cain became very angry and his countenance fell.

The first question that comes to mind here is... "why" did they give an offering to God?
Where did God previously tell them they needed to do this? Or was this just a giving from the goodness
of their hearts? (There is a difference between and offering and sacrifice, one has to do with sin).

Also why God "regard" Abels offering, but not Cains offering?
Is giving an offering expected? Required?

Gen 4:6; Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen?

Truly.. why was Cain angry? Fear? Insecurity? Jealousy? All of the above?

Gen 4:7; "If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it."

Gen 4:7; (KJV) If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

This verse has a lot in it.
If you do well.... what does this mean? Do good? Do good enough? Do your best?
It's a statement from God that starts with an "If" which means the results of the statement are up to us.

Sin is crouching at the door, and its desire is for you?
Sin desires us? (or do we desire to sin?) This is the first time the word "sin" appears in the Bible.
Could it be "Satan" desires us? To belong to him instead of God.

The verse ends with ... "you must master it".
God didn't master it for them, ... YOU must master it.

... to be continued ..
 
Member
We've all read this a hundred times, and yet everytime I read it... there is always more.

Gen 4:1; ... and she said, "I have gotten a manchild with the help of the LORD."

It;s interesting that Eve mentions "help from the Lord" in conceiving a baby. This could be taken a number of ways.

Gen 4:2; Again, she gave birth to his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of flocks, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

Abel was a rancher, he had livestock. But Cain was a farmer and grew crops.

Gen 4:3; So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the LORD of the fruit of the ground.
Gen 4:4; Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and for his offering;
Gen 4:5; but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. So Cain became very angry and his countenance fell.

The first question that comes to mind here is... "why" did they give an offering to God?
Where did God previously tell them they needed to do this? Or was this just a giving from the goodness
of their hearts? (There is a difference between and offering and sacrifice, one has to do with sin).

Also why God "regard" Abels offering, but not Cains offering?
Is giving an offering expected? Required?

Gen 4:6; Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen?

Truly.. why was Cain angry? Fear? Insecurity? Jealousy? All of the above?

Gen 4:7; "If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it."

Gen 4:7; (KJV) If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

This verse has a lot in it.
If you do well.... what does this mean? Do good? Do good enough? Do your best?
It's a statement from God that starts with an "If" which means the results of the statement are up to us.

Sin is crouching at the door, and its desire is for you?
Sin desires us? (or do we desire to sin?) This is the first time the word "sin" appears in the Bible.
Could it be "Satan" desires us? To belong to him instead of God.

The verse ends with ... "you must master it".
God didn't master it for them, ... YOU must master it.

... to be continued ..
Have you ever wondered why Cain and Abel didn't have a partner like their parents Adam ( male flesh ) and Eve ( female flesh ). Cain was born without a mate and so was Abel. Wasn't man created male and female?

Genesis 1
26: Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
 
Loyal
Somehow Cain finds a wife in another land.

Gen 4:17; Cain had relations with his wife and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city Enoch, after the name of his son.
 
Member
Somehow Cain finds a wife in another land.

Gen 4:17; Cain had relations with his wife and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city Enoch, after the name of his son.
It's very difficult to understand what happened after Adam stopped obeying the voice of the Lord and began listening to the voice of his ( FEMALE ) eternal partner who was speaking lies from Satan. That's when everything changed for Adam ( MALE ) and Eve ( FEMALE ) and their offspring only got ONE body with both MALE and FEMALE DNA in it. This means Cain was both male and female and so was Abel. When Cain found another body for a wife, he didn't understand that he was committing adultery. Cain's body contained his partner genetically speaking so his wife wasn't his eternal partner.
 
Loyal
It's very difficult to understand what happened after Adam stopped obeying the voice of the Lord and began listening to the voice of his ( FEMALE ) eternal partner who was speaking lies from Satan. That's when everything changed for Adam ( MALE ) and Eve ( FEMALE ) and their offspring only got ONE body with both MALE and FEMALE DNA in it. This means Cain was both male and female and so was Abel. When Cain found another body for a wife, he didn't understand that he was committing adultery. Cain's body contained his partner genetically speaking so his wife wasn't his eternal partner.
Should we should use genetics as men understand it to explain the things of God? If we are striving and/or surrendering to become a part of the Bride of Christ, should we set aside our spouses of flesh?

In the Spirit our spouse needs to be Jesus, but does not the scripture provide that we may also have a spouse in the flesh? We are to be one with the spouse of the flesh [strive to be] even as we strive to be one with our Lord Jesus.
 
Member
Should we should use genetics as men understand it to explain the things of God? If we are striving and/or surrendering to become a part of the Bride of Christ, should we set aside our spouses of flesh?

In the Spirit our spouse needs to be Jesus, but does not the scripture provide that we may also have a spouse in the flesh? We are to be one with the spouse of the flesh [strive to be] even as we strive to be one with our Lord Jesus.
Twisting the words of the Lord will not help you understand what created MAN is in the IMAGE OF GOD. It's best to listen carefully to what the Lord is teaching in these words.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
The word, "man" means "mankind" and within mankind there is both male, and female. A man is NOT a female, neither is a female a man, but, a woman is a man (part of mankind) with a "womb" which is why she is called wo-man.
 
Member
The word, "man" means "mankind" and within mankind there is both male, and female. A man is NOT a female, neither is a female a man, but, a woman is a man (part of mankind) with a "womb" which is why she is called wo-man.
It's very easy to twist the words into whatever you want them to look like. If God had his prophet write MANKIND instead of MAN, then there wouldn't be any need to twist MAN into MANKIND. This following scripture does not use the word "MANKIND". Try twist the word "MAN" into MANKIND here and it wouldn't make any sense at all.

Mark 10
2: And Pharisees came up and in order to test him asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?"
3: He answered them, "What did Moses command you?"
4: They said, "Moses allowed a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to put her away."
5: But Jesus said to them, "For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.
6: But from the beginning of creation, `God made them ( MAN ) male and female.'
7: `For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife,
8: and the two shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two but one flesh.
9: What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder."
10: And in the house the disciples asked him again about this matter.
11: And he said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her;
12: and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
It's very easy to twist the words into whatever you want them to look like. If God had his prophet write MANKIND instead of MAN, then there wouldn't be any need to twist MAN into MANKIND. This following scripture does not use the word "MANKIND". Try twist the word "MAN" into MANKIND here and it wouldn't make any sense at all.

Mark 10
2: And Pharisees came up and in order to test him asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?"
3: He answered them, "What did Moses command you?"
4: They said, "Moses allowed a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to put her away."
5: But Jesus said to them, "For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.
6: But from the beginning of creation, `God made them ( MAN ) male and female.'
7: `For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife,
8: and the two shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two but one flesh.
9: What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder."
10: And in the house the disciples asked him again about this matter.
11: And he said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her;
12: and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."
Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make humankind in our image, after our likeness, so they may rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move on the earth."
Gen 1:27 God created humankind in his own image..... (NET)

Gen 1:26 God said, Let Us [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit] make mankind in Our image, after Our likeness, and let them have complete authority over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the [tame] beasts, and over all of the earth, and over everything that creeps upon the earth. [Ps. 104:30; Heb. 1:2; 11:3.] (AMP)
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
If God had his prophet write MANKIND instead of MAN, then there wouldn't be any need to twist MAN into MANKIND. This following scripture does not use the word "MANKIND
You can not take scripture and make a theology from them unless you first compare it to ALL scripture. It must be a thread that runs through out ALL the Bible.
 
Member
You can not take scripture and make a theology from them unless you first compare it to ALL scripture. It must be a thread that runs through out ALL the Bible.
I listen to the Holy Spirit of God, not man's interpretations of what he reads in the Bible.

1 John 5
9: If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for this is the testimony of God that he has borne witness to his Son.
10: He who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. He who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne to his Son.
11: And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
20: And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, to know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

2 Timothy 2
7: Think over what I say, for the Lord will grant you understanding in everything.


Exodus 4:
10: But Moses said to the LORD, "Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either heretofore or since thou hast spoken to thy servant; but I am slow of speech and of tongue."
11: Then the LORD said to him, "Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him dumb, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?
12: Now therefore go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall speak."

Psalm 32
8: I will instruct you and teach you the way you should go; I will counsel you with my eye upon you.

John 12
44: And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me.
45: And he who sees me sees him who sent me.
46: I have come as light into the world, that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.
47: If any one hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
48: He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.
49: For I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak.
50: And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has bidden me."

Everything I write and speak for God comes from the Holy Spirit into my MIND. Those of you who don't believe this to be true are unspiritual minded and you will never understand who MAN, ( male and female ) and GOD are.
 
Administrator
Staff Member
I listen to the Holy Spirit of God, not man's interpretations of what he reads in the Bible.
You must be so special, but sending me a private message calling people here hypocrites must be from GOD too?

Account closed.
 
Loyal
Twisting the words of the Lord will not help you understand what created MAN is in the IMAGE OF GOD. It's best to listen carefully to what the Lord is teaching in these words.
Twisting? No, I'm not doing that, at least, not purposely. It is simply that I don't know a lot about genetics and/or DNA. There are probably others that know even less than me. Do we have to learn the details of those things to understand God and God's Way? I would think not.

I would say rather that if we seek first His righteousness and His kingdom everything that is needed will be added to us. [Matt 6:33]
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
Twisting? No, I'm not doing that, at least, not purposely. It is simply that I don't know a lot about genetics and/or DNA. There are probably others that know even less than me. Do we have to learn the details of those things to understand God and God's Way? I would think not.

I would say rather that if we seek first His righteousness and His kingdom everything that is needed will be added to us. [Matt 6:33]
If you ever looked at TheVeryEnd profile page (which is no longer available) You would have read that the Lord began to "speak" to him in his brain several years ago. That would have raised a "red flag" as the Lord does not speak to men's brain which is physical in nature, he speaks to men's' heart (his spirit).

Pro 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

Psa 18:28 For thou wilt light my candle: the LORD my God will enlighten my darkness.

There are many who have the exact same problem, thinking that analytical, reasonable, logical thinking is the only way to gain the knowledge of God, which is completely false!!!
 
Loyal
If you ever looked at TheVeryEnd profile page (which is no longer available) You would have read that the Lord began to "speak" to him in his brain several years ago. That would have raised a "red flag" as the Lord does not speak to men's brain which is physical in nature, he speaks to men's' heart (his spirit).

Pro 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

Psa 18:28 For thou wilt light my candle: the LORD my God will enlighten my darkness.

There are many who have the exact same problem, thinking that analytical, reasonable, logical thinking is the only way to gain the knowledge of God, which is completely false!!!
No, I did not look at his profile. I always like to talk to a person myself for as long as is possible, even if we seemingly disagree, before [if ever] rendering a final decision. Apparently some disagree with my way on this [which I certainly hope is God's Way], but the decision on TheVeryEnd was not mine to make in any case.

Give God the glory!
 
Member
Genesis is a wonderful book because it set the stage for all that follows, all the way to the end of Revelation. Even what happened in the beginning is referred to through out the Bible all the into Revelation. If one doesn't understand just what happened at the very beginning, the Bible will never fit together or one will never truly understand the strong meat of God's Word, the Bible. Like Genesis 4:2. After Cain is borned. And she again bare his brother Abel. This English word, (again) is the Hebrew word, (yacaph) pronounced, (yaw-saf'). Meaning (often adverbial, to continue to do a thing). In other words, Eve bare Cain then continued in labor and then bare Able. Able wasn't born the following year, he was born just minutes later after Cain. They were twins, not identical twins, but fraternal twins. Your world renown King James Bible scholars agree with this truth. One scholar that I'm referring to is the world Greatest scholar, E.W. Bullinger. Bullinger was the scholar of scholars and I think that He was the only one trusted to proof read the old manuscripts, from which bibles are translated from and compare them to the King James Bible. He is also the one who compiled the Conpanion Bible, probably the best study bible out there. Still the King James Bible but with E.W. Bullinger cometary to the side.

When the Bible says, man, most of the time it means all of man kind and a few times it means Adam himself. Not just any man, but Adam himself, that picticular man. Being very specific. At the sixth day God created man both male and female, meaning He created female beings and He created male beings, not that man was or could be, both male and female. Take note here in that God up to this point was creating, creating, creating. This is important because God is about change up here and do something different, just shortly after He rested on the SEVENTH DAY. Now that God has rested and blessed and sanctified the SEVENTH DAY, then GOD makes this statement in Genesis 2:5, and there WAS NOT A MAN TO TILL THE GROUND. Now pay attention here cause this is over looked by most. This is what would be the EIGHTITH DAY. The number 8 in biblical numatics, means a new beginning. God has stopped creating here and is now beginning to start FORMING instead of creating. Genesis 2:7 Then God FORMED man of the dust of the ground and starts referring to him as THE man. Not just any man but that picticular man. Genesis 2:8. And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there He put THE man whom He had FORMED. Not all the people God created on the sixth day were in the garden of Eden, only THE man,Adam. Genesis 2:21 God takes a rib from THE man Adam and makes him a help mate, Eve. As far as human beings, only Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden. All the other males and females created on the sixth day lived out side the garden of Eden. Remember when Cain was kicked out of the garden of Eden he dwelt in the land of Nod, east of Eden and there Cain took a wife. Not one of his sisters but one of the females created on the sixth day that lived in the land of Nod.

Now these two, Adam and Eve are the perfect couple. From them would be the start of the Israelite race or people, God's chosen people. Not chosen cause they were special or anything better than those people created on the sixth day. No, they were chosen by God to be taught His Word, then scaddered through out the world to teach God's word to the rest of the world. From or through Adam and Eve would come the Christ. Although not all Israelites stayed true to their race and married outside, God saw that there was always a pure blood Israelite male and female couple, all the way to Christ!s birth. After Christ's birth God quit protecting that pure lineage.
 
Member
I think that God speaks to men mostly through the volume of the book, the Bible, God's word. God has talked to some men in a audible voice but it was very very very rare. If God speaks to some flesh man it will be so awesome to that man he will probably not tell anyone about it, but will begin to carry out what was said.
 
Loyal
Gen 4:16; Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

I think it's interesting here that Cain left "the presence of the Lord".
In Psalms 139:8; David says If I go to heaven.. you are there. If I go to Sheol.. you are there.
It seems we cannot go any place that the Lord isn't there. But is it possible there are places the Lord chooses not to dwell?
Places that He chooses not to look upon? It seems when Jesus was on the cross, God the Father turned His back on Him, did not
look upon Him... at least for those moments.

In Gen 3:9; God asks Adam.. "where are you"? Is it really possible that God didn't know where they were?
Or is possible that God knew they were trying to hide from Him? (Do we try to hide from God sometimes?)

In Gen 4:9; God asks Cain.. "Where is Abel your brother"? Did God really not know what happened to Abel?
Again.. I think God knows when we are trying to hide something from Him.

Still in Gen 4:16; it seems it was Cains choice (not necessarily God's) to depart from the presence of the Lord.
Sometimes it seems it is Gods choice to depart from us.
In 1 Sam 16:14; it says the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul.
In Judges 16:20; it says Samson "did not know that the Lord had departed from him".

I wonder if there are Christians today.. who do not know... "that the Lord has departed from them".
 
Member
Gen 4:16; Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

I think it's interesting here that Cain left "the presence of the Lord".
In Psalms 139:8; David says If I go to heaven.. you are there. If I go to Sheol.. you are there.
It seems we cannot go any place that the Lord isn't there. But is it possible there are places the Lord chooses not to dwell?
Places that He chooses not to look upon? It seems when Jesus was on the cross, God the Father turned His back on Him, did not
look upon Him... at least for those moments.

In Gen 3:9; God asks Adam.. "where are you"? Is it really possible that God didn't know where they were?
Or is possible that God knew they were trying to hide from Him? (Do we try to hide from God sometimes?)

In Gen 4:9; God asks Cain.. "Where is Abel your brother"? Did God really not know what happened to Abel?
Again.. I think God knows when we are trying to hide something from Him.

Still in Gen 4:16; it seems it was Cains choice (not necessarily God's) to depart from the presence of the Lord.
Sometimes it seems it is Gods choice to depart from us.
In 1 Sam 16:14; it says the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul.
In Judges 16:20; it says Samson "did not know that the Lord had departed from him".

I wonder if there are Christians today.. who do not know... "that the Lord has departed from them".
Gen 4:16; Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

I think it's interesting here that Cain left "the presence of the Lord".
In Psalms 139:8; David says If I go to heaven.. you are there. If I go to Sheol.. you are there.
It seems we cannot go any place that the Lord isn't there. But is it possible there are places the Lord chooses not to dwell?
Places that He chooses not to look upon? It seems when Jesus was on the cross, God the Father turned His back on Him, did not
look upon Him... at least for those moments.

In Gen 3:9; God asks Adam.. "where are you"? Is it really possible that God didn't know where they were?
Or is possible that God knew they were trying to hide from Him? (Do we try to hide from God sometimes?)

In Gen 4:9; God asks Cain.. "Where is Abel your brother"? Did God really not know what happened to Abel?
Again.. I think God knows when we are trying to hide something from Him.

Still in Gen 4:16; it seems it was Cains choice (not necessarily God's) to depart from the presence of the Lord.
Sometimes it seems it is Gods choice to depart from us.
In 1 Sam 16:14; it says the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul.
In Judges 16:20; it says Samson "did not know that the Lord had departed from him".

I wonder if there are Christians today.. who do not know... "that the Lord has departed from them".

I think there many that don't realize God has turned His face or departed from them. Why, because so many are basically biblically illiterate. God is still there just hoping and waiting for them to come back in alignment with the word. There are many who never miss a day that the church doors are open, sit on the very first row but know very little of the strong meat which Christ says that we must know. The Word of God is more than the Ten Commandments, more than knowing Jesus And God loves you, these are the milk of Gods Word, the baby food. We are told, once you have got the milk, get into the strong meat. Here are some strong meats:

THE KEY OF DAVID
THE SONG OF MOSSES
THE PARABLE OF THE SOWER
THE PARABLE OF THE FIG TREE
THE PARABLE OF THE TEARS
THE SEVEN SEALS
THE SEVEN TRUMPS
THE SEVEN VIALS
TO KNOW WHO THE KENITES ARE

And there are more but if you know and understand these, you are well on your way in strong meat.

In Revelation where a Christ is having the angels write letters to the seven churches of Asia, Christ goes over them one by one and says what He likes And dislikes about them. Only two of the churches did Christ find pleasing to Him. What did those two churches teach: THE KEY TO DAVID and those that call themselves Jews and are not but do lie and are of the synagogue of Satan. My friends, these two things are no doubt, strong meat.
 

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