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Gender Roles from God

Loyal
We live in a time where there is a lot of confusion about Gender. Satan is doing his best to confuse people.
We know that God isn't the author of confusion.

But still the world has men who want to be women.

1 Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

Deut 22:5; "A woman shall not wear man's clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman's clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God.

...and women, who want to be men. Presidents, company CEOs, and head pastors of churches.

1 Tim 2:9; Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments,
1 Tim 2:10; but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.
1 Tim 2:11; A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
1 Tim 2:12; But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
1 Tim 2:13; For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
1 Tim 2:14; And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
1 Tim 2:15; But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

1 Cor 14:33; for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
1 Cor 14:34; The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1 Cor 14:35; If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

Now I believe women can do ministry in the church, they can be in lay ministry, women's ministries, music ministies, children's ministries and women Sunday school
teachers. But it seems the Bible doesn't support womens rights from church perspective.

There were women in ministry in the Bible. But it seems none were the "head of the church".

Luke 2:36; And there was a prophetess, Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years and had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage,

Act 16:14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.

There was a woman who was a Judge over Israel in the old testament, but that was because no man would step forth at that time.

Why do men want to take on women's roles and duties? (Sometimes they have no choice)
Why do women want to take on men's roles and duties? (Sometimes they have no choice)

1 Cor 11:3; But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

But often... it's simply because we "want" to.
 
Member
You are right. There are defined functions within the church and some of these functions are gender specific. Revealed prohibitions are not overturned by personal desires or agendas.
 
Member
Well, I understand the meaning of Church differently than most. I being a woman am subject to my husband only and God. I am not subject to a pastoral head or priest , Pope ex.....
Church means assembly of believers. And since Christ said wherever two or three gather in my name ,I am there in the midst of them then that is so.-'Wherever' , being the
key phrase here. In the first church it is true that Men are the head and this is true for its sister church- the end of the age assembly. However, that does not mean a woman is subject to every man
who thinks he is acting as the head. If my husband , gives me the green light to speak a truth that needs to be heard ,I do.
Jeremiah 31:32-34
…32It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt—a covenant they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. 33“But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD, I will put My law in their minds and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 34No longer will each man teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity and will remember their sins no more.”…

Michael's Deliverance and the End Times Daniel12:3-5
…3Then the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever. 4But you, Daniel, shut up these words and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will roam to and fro, and knowledge will increase.” 5Then I, Daniel, looked and saw two others standing there, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank.…

I Will Pour Out My Spirit Joel 2:28-29
28And afterward, I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. 29Even on My menservants and maidservants, I will pour out My Spirit in those days.…
Acts 2:17
In the last days, God says, I will pour out My Spirit on all people; your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

In forums people have to be careful about what they are doing. Sometimes an assembly of people want to set up church in a forum and try to subjugate a woman when they are not her husband. As for me and my house we serve the Lord, and my husband who is head over me gives me full permission to speak whatever truth that needs to be spoken.

Another thing about the head , is that- in some denominations like the Messianic, the men who should be Christian only follow Rabbinical Orthodox practices that are not Christian but are rather based in false traditions . These traditions were not passed down from Moses even. They are based in the Talmud and Kabbalah. I am speaking of the covering of a mans head. When they do the Blessing of Aron they cover their heads, not only for that prayer but every prayer just about, and even when prophesying. I guess because their too caught up in being legitimized by their Edom (Red)- Jewish Christ rejecting counterparts they missed this.

Roles in Worship 1Corinthians 11:1-16

1You are to imitate me, just as I imitate Christ.

2Now I commend you for remembering me in everything and for maintaining the traditions, just as I passed them on to you. 3But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for it is just as if her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, let her hair be cut off. And if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.

7A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man. 9Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason a woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels.

11In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For just as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.

13Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Doesn’t nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. 16If anyone is inclined to dispute this, we have no other practice, nor do the churches of God.

As a woman, I always cover my head when in an assembly. I even have my head covered when I enter a forum to Talk about Jesus because I know not when the Holy Spirit will speak and if prophecy or the understanding of it may be given.
There are without question God given roles. God is good.
 
Loyal
In Christ there is no male or female. Man is only the head of the women in marriage. Christ is the head of a woman, just as much as the Christ is the head of the man in Christ.
 
Loyal
Gal 3:28; There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Well certainly there are Jews and Greeks (Gentiles). And there has been, and still are slaves and slavery in the world.
There are men and women in the world. The context of this verse is saying anyone can be saved. Men or not "more" saved or "more" valuable
to God than women. But there ARE still specific gender roles.

God didn't create men to be women, and He didn't create women to be men.
 
Member
Gal 3:28; There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Well certainly there are Jews and Greeks (Gentiles). And there has been, and still are slaves and slavery in the world.
There are men and women in the world. The context of this verse is saying anyone can be saved. Men or not "more" saved or "more" valuable
to God than women. But there ARE still specific gender roles.


God didn't create men to be women, and He didn't create women to be men.
Obviously.
 
Loyal
Deu 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
 
Member
Deu 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
The Word of the Lord, Praise be to God!
 
Active
Deu 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
Agreed. But in post # 4, you said in Christ, there is no male and female. Now you quote a verse stating that woman can wear necklaces and men must not. I can't follow your thoughts. Not sure if this was meant as a reply to BAC's post # 5?
 
Loyal
Agreed. But in post # 4, you said in Christ, there is no male and female. Now you quote a verse stating that woman can wear necklaces and men must not. I can't follow your thoughts. Not sure if this was meant as a reply to BAC's post # 5?
There had to be a difference in the sex's or the command to replenish the earth could not have been possible. In Christ there is no male or female, but in the flesh there is.
 
Loyal
We live in a time where there is a lot of confusion about Gender. Satan is doing his best to confuse people.
We know that God isn't the author of confusion.

But still the world has men who want to be women.

1 Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

Deut 22:5; "A woman shall not wear man's clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman's clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God.

...and women, who want to be men. Presidents, company CEOs, and head pastors of churches.

1 Tim 2:9; Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments,
1 Tim 2:10; but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.
1 Tim 2:11; A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
1 Tim 2:12; But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
1 Tim 2:13; For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
1 Tim 2:14; And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
1 Tim 2:15; But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

1 Cor 14:33; for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
1 Cor 14:34; The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1 Cor 14:35; If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

Now I believe women can do ministry in the church, they can be in lay ministry, women's ministries, music ministies, children's ministries and women Sunday school
teachers. But it seems the Bible doesn't support womens rights from church perspective.

There were women in ministry in the Bible. But it seems none were the "head of the church".

Luke 2:36; And there was a prophetess, Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years and had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage,

Act 16:14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.

There was a woman who was a Judge over Israel in the old testament, but that was because no man would step forth at that time.

Why do men want to take on women's roles and duties? (Sometimes they have no choice)
Why do women want to take on men's roles and duties? (Sometimes they have no choice)

1 Cor 11:3; But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

But often... it's simply because we "want" to.
Oh Here we go again! All this blat about women not teaching, or ministering as pastors is taken from, what? Two verses out of the entire bible. And those two verses taken completely out of context? Satan was on the ball there! There is no place, NO PLACE, in the bible that says women are not to preach or minister. I suggest that that woman hating devil has fed the church such a pernicious lie here. It behooves ALL Christians to dig into this subject and stop taking it without even thinking about it. Its unscriptural, contradictory to the Word,and even illogical. Will somebody please do a real study into the subject? Before they spray that fertilizer again?
 
Moderator
Staff Member
All this blat about women not teaching, or ministering as pastors is taken from, what? Two verses out of the entire bible. And those two verses taken completely out of context?

Good morning dear (somewhat irritated sounding) brother @Bendito

What context do you ascribe to the verses below to?


Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence

1 Timothy 2:11-12
 
Member
Good morning dear (somewhat irritated sounding) brother @Bendito

What context do you ascribe to the verses below to?


Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence

1 Timothy 2:11-12
Personally I take the verses at face value. My husband is who I do not usurp. And by the way , not every man is an anointed priest of God . This is what 1Timothy addresses Husbands anointed to be presbyters .
Qualifications for Presbyters
1This is a trustworthy saying: If anyone aspires to be an overseer, he desires a noble task. 2A presbyter, then, must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not dependent on wine, not violent but gentle, peaceable, and free of the love of money.…


u·surp
yo͞oˈsərp/
verb
verb: usurp; 3rd person present: usurps; past tense: usurped; past participle: usurped; gerund or present participle: usurping
  1. take (a position of power or importance) illegally or by force.
take the place of (someone in a position of power) illegally: supplant.
encroach or infringe upon (someone's rights).
Priest in an assembly are not to be usurped by their wives, before the assembly. This in no way implies that a woman who learns in silence before the assembly, can not speak privately to her husband, those suggestions in wisdom God has placed upon her heart. At that point her husband decides if he will apply those suggestions before the assembly.
 
Loyal
Good morning dear (somewhat irritated sounding) brother @Bendito

What context do you ascribe to the verses below to?


Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence

1 Timothy 2:11-12
For the 1 Timothy 2 reference one MUST start at Chapter 1:1 to see the context. What was happening? What was being discussed. As in, Paul was answering questions...1 Timmy 2: 11-12 was one of the questions. One of the leaders said that, Paul repeated the statement and then answered it. Without context there is no way we can understand what is being said or talked about. And you know, a text without a context is a pretext....a lie.

Of course nobody in our group would lie, but by taking a doctrine based on incomplete information, one can believe a lie
 
Loyal
1 Tim 2:9-12

Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

What exactly do you think the context here is?


1 Cor 14 is about rules in the church concerning spiritual gifts.
1 Cor 14:23; Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?
1 Cor 14:34; The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1 Cor 14:35; If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.


What exactly is the reason these verses are invalid?
 
Loyal
1 Tim 2:9-12

Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and msanctity with self-restraint.

What exactly do you think the context here is?


1 Cor 14 is about rules in the church concerning spiritual gifts.
1 Cor 14:23; Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?
1 Cor 14:34; The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1 Cor 14:35; If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.


What exactly is the reason these verses are invalid?
My friend, context! In this case, as with many other places in the bible, the context is not two verses before and Marne one after. Back up. Chapter 1. Paul comes to Corinth Nondenominational Church. He addresses a few problems. Whom do we follow. They were divided over that. Sexual sin among them I dealt with. Then the taking of the brethren to secular courts. Don't do that! Chapter 7. Oh wow! you guys do have a lot of questions, don't you? Paul starts answering questions. Husband wife relationship. Single peoples problems with uh. Lbido. Eating of food sacrificed. And so on. He looks at the questions. Some he answers directly and others he repeats the question then answers. So look at the question here he is... Speaking about tongues, and I believe the question caught his eye and he reacted to it. "women need to shut up in church. Just like the Torah says". Guess what my friend. That was not Paul speaking there. He simply read the question. Paul was a very learned man. He KNEW the Torah and he would never have said that the Torah said women should keep quiet. Why? Simply. The Torah says no sub thing! Then Paul answers the man vs 36. Then he returns to his previous topic to finish it. So you see Paul does not forbid women to preach, teach, or anything else. Back to the other verse quoted on this this thread. There is neither male nor female... All are equal
 
Member
My friend, context! In this case, as with many other places in the bible, the context is not two verses before and Marne one after. Back up. Chapter 1. Paul comes to Corinth Nondenominational Church. He addresses a few problems. Whom do we follow. They were divided over that. Sexual sin among them I dealt with. Then the taking of the brethren to secular courts. Don't do that! Chapter 7. Oh wow! you guys do have a lot of questions, don't you? Paul starts answering questions. Husband wife relationship. Single peoples problems with uh. Lbido. Eating of food sacrificed. And so on. He looks at the questions. Some he answers directly and others he repeats the question then answers. So look at the question here he is... Speaking about tongues, and I believe the question caught his eye and he reacted to it. "women need to shut up in church. Just like the Torah says". Guess what my friend. That was not Paul speaking there. He simply read the question. Paul was a very learned man. He KNEW the Torah and he would never have said that the Torah said women should keep quiet. Why? Simply. The Torah says no sub thing! Then Paul answers the man vs 36. Then he returns to his previous topic to finish it. So you see Paul does not forbid women to preach, teach, or anything else. Back to the other verse quoted on this this thread. There is neither male nor female... All are equal
I wish I had a nickel every time someone accuses another person of not honoring the context of a particular passage of scripture. What I have discovered from much experience is that 99% of those who charge others to honor the context of a segment of scripture could not find the context of a passage with both hands and written instructions. I think your post well illustrates that point.
 
Loyal
I wish I had a nickel every time someone accuses another person of not honoring the context of a particular passage of scripture. What I have discovered from much experience is that 99% of those who charge others to honor the context of a segment of scripture could not find the context of a passage with both hands and written instructions. I think your post well illustrates that point.
Well, at least you're thinking. After a fashion
 
Member
Well, at least you're thinking. After a fashion
I think you are missing my point. You have not demonstrated the contest of 1Cor 14 at all. If you would, please explain to us Paul's statements in the context of chapter fourteen. What issue is Paul dealing with in this chapter?
 
Loyal
I think you are missing my point. You have not demonstrated the contest of 1Cor 14 at all. If you would, please explain to us Paul's statements in the context of chapter fourteen. What issue is Paul dealing with in this chapter?
Context shows what is being said. It shows what is happening. It gives the entire picture...For example...You and I are sitting in your backyard talking and putting a few uh coffees under our belt. You're telling me about something you just read. "One single explosion! Thirty thousand people dead, the city leveled, and twenty-five ships sunk!" We're talking quietly but the neighbor on the other side of the fence who is busy pruning his roses only heard you say about the explosion. All of a sudden we're surrounded by cops and we're arrested for plotting a terrorist attack. Stupid right? We were talking about My Pelee erupting in 1902.
The neighbor heard one sentence, one verse, and built an entire doctrine on it...and things went to hell.
 

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