Galatians 5:17... meaning??

[AudreyNicole]

I just read an article that states this from Galatians 5:17:

We naturally love to do evil things that are just the opposite from the things that the Holy Spirit tells us to do; and the good things we want to do when the Spirit has his way with us are just the opposite of our natural desires. These two forces within us are constantly fighting each other to win control over us, and our wishes are never free from their pressures.

This is a little difficult for me to understand. I am a recently saved Christian and am working on learning and following the word of God, and recognizing His leading in my life. I am learning to surrender myself to Him and His control, and give up my own will for His.

Knowing God's will and following it everyday of our lives doesn't seem too difficult, all you have to do is ask and read, right?...but then I read this and it seems to say that everything we want to do, everything we dream to do, is against God... and so we should do the opposite. It makes it sound like if you want to do God's will then you just do the opposite of what you want to do. And this of course seems silly... and it would lead to a miserable existence. So how do you explain this verse?

I guess I'm just confused because it makes doing God's will seem scary and unappealing. I know when we're saved we are transformed and given a heart of flesh and lose our heart of stone. So does this verse apply to those saved? I know there will always be temptation and sin, even in the lives of believers. But if you truly desire to do God's will, and pray for Him to change your heart to reflect His desires, then are your wants and desires still evil?

 

[jeffsi435]

It means that as a believer you have two natures in you. One is the flesh, which has one desire and then there is the Holy Spirit, which has another. These two are always in conflict with one another.

 

[Brighthouse]

Hi AudreyNicole, Jeff is quite correct,if you continue reading down from here, you will see what the deeds of the flesh are,and you will see what the fruit of the Spirit is! NOW!! do we make mistakes? yep,do we somtimes give in to our flesh? yep, Our wonderful Brother Paul had this problem as well!! ( Rom 7:15-25) What the Lord has helped me in knowing,the more we examine ourselves 2 cor 13:5 the better we do the next time.In school we are at times given a test,I used to hate tests!! I did hate them because I did not know the purpose of the test,which through the Lord I understand now!! The purpose of the test,is not to fail!! BUT!! to grow in Jesus!! As you know Jesus already knows if we are going to pass or learn!! notice!! I did not say fail!! We cannot fail because Jesus who started a good work in us, is more then able to finish what he started!! So if we do not pass, we learn!! Which gives us a stronger purpose in our Jesus to do better the next test!! Because as you well know,we will always have more then one test!!SO!! if we pass the test we learn,and if we do not pass the test, we learn!!WHY?? Because my dear sister in Christ!! Jesus is LOVE!! and LOVE!! is patient!,LOVE is kind,and is not jelous,love does not brag and is not arrogant.1 Cor 13:4-8!! LOVE!! never fails!! and since Jesus is love,and lives in us!! we in him cannot fail either!! we learn to grow!! Praise the Lord!! I hope this encourges you to grow!! I am growing everyday,if I do not grow,then I have failed the test! blessing.

 

[april showers]

Audrey, that is a very good question. You have already gotten some good answers. I would add that while many of our desires are actually good and most likely come from God, there is no part of our old nature that can remain - we must be completely remade in Christ. So even the "good" parts of our old nature are not really good, because our old nature is saturated in sin. Even the "good" things must be brought down to the death of the cross and remade in the nature of Jesus.

The new creation is made when God remakes every part of our old nature, good and bad. Our repulsive qualities - lying, swearing, partying, etc. must be removed and remade into something pleasing to Christ, like telling the truth, speaking with clean language, and spending our free time reading the Bible and praying, for example. But even the best human qualities fall far short of the nature of Jesus, so even our honesty, integrity, altruism, etc. must all be remade so we have the Lord's honest, integrity, altruism, etc.

As was mentioned, there are many tests along the way. These are designed to show us how dependent we must become on God, and to break down our self-sufficiency, pride, and what ever else is in there that we don't even know about. Some people do good things out of bad motives and don't even realize it. Everything is examined by the Lord and tested. The Lord is gentle with us and shows us our sin little by little. If He were to expose everything at once, we could not bear it! He also supplies us with much grace to get through the tests and operations. He is always good.

I am certainly not the same person I was 28 years ago when I met the Lord. He has done both very hard and very wonderful things with me. I used to think I was very nice, but He has given me enough difficulties in my life to squeeze the sin out of me. It is horrible to realize what was (and to some extent still is) in me, and it is very humbling. I so much want the Lord to finish the operation of exposing the sin, so I can confess it, be cleansed, and be given His nature in each area, to become completely like Him.

I don't know if I have helped to explain anything or not. Please keep asking questions if you don't understand.

 

[AudreyNicole]

so... Galatians 5:16 says: "But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.”

So I guess now the question is, how do we walk by the Spirit... or how can we know we are walking by the Spirit?

 

[Brighthouse]

answer Gal 5:22-23 the more we do this,and not do gal 5:19-21 the better off we are,I always say if we pay atention to doing to do's we won't have time to do the don'ts,and if could, we wouldn't, so we won't!! lol LOVE is Jesus, this foundation is what we lay our life upon. Just remember this is easy,what you would say and do to you, do unto others. blessing

 

[RJ]

so... Galatians 5:16 says: "But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.”

So I guess now the question is, how do we walk by the Spirit... or how can we know we are walking by the Spirit?

You walk by the spirit by walking in faith that as a "Born Again" believer, Jesus Christ lives in you., and God said that your faith grows by reading and staying in his word. So read the Bible daily, pray often and God will guide you in his ways!

Proverbs 8:17
17 I love those who love me,
and those who seek me find me.

Jeremiah 29:13
13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

 

[David777]

Nicole

Knowing God's will and following it everyday of our lives doesn't seem too difficult, all you have to do is ask and read, right?...but then I read this and it seems to say that everything we want to do, everything we dream to do, is against God... and so we should do the opposite. It makes it sound like if you want to do God's will then you just do the opposite of what you want to do. And this of course seems silly... and it would lead to a miserable existence. So how do you explain this verse?

You are a young Christian and have found the very heart of the Christian life. Well done, whether this is accidental or you have been directed here, you are at the right place. I am not suprised that you are having trouble understanding this.

The book of Romans has a more detailed explanation of the law at work within our flesh, and living in the spirit. Many Christians do not really understand the significance of the passages you have found.

Firstly, the passage you mentioned does not say that "everything we want to do, everything we dream to do" is against God. You may dream of travelling overseas. God is not saying you cannot do this. Relax, your dreams more than likely have nothing to do with the passages you mentioned.

Paul says in Romans that your nature, your flesh, even though it is aware of that which is good and holy, does not obey that which is good and holy. For example the deeds of the flesh are evident, anger, jealousy, strife, etc.

But the deeds of the spirit are patience, kindness, gentleness, etc.
Humans by nature are disposed to living by the flesh. History is the record of human nature at work, not pleasant to read. You and I are by nature not good. More precisely by nature we are unable to enter the kingdom of God.

Notice how Paul argues this point. Then we are released from this form of slavery to sin. How? Through Jesus Christ.

So on the one hand I have the desire to be naughty, on the other I live in Jesus Christ, worship, prayer etc. If you live in Jesus Christ you are free, liberated, saved. If you live your life outside of Christ, in the flesh, you will perform the deeds of the flesh.

A Christian is not a person who goes to church, reads the bible, or any other form of godly behaviour. A Christian is a person whom believes in Jesus Christ. Don't panic or worry, there is no need to.
Millions of others have stumbled over these passages too.

I hope that you achieve your dreams Nicole, enjoy your abundant life. In Christ the future is very bright indeed.

Any further info you need, just post.

 

[hischildaswell]

Exhortation: throw away any tendency towards any other 'per'version of the Bible for the KJV, the word of God is under assault as in the beginning,
<TABLE id=table_bible cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR id=Gen_3_1_3001><TD class=vRefa>Gen 3:1</TD><TD class=vDispa>Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
"Thus saith the Lord" should be the guiding light

 

[AudreyNicole]

Thanks so much, this has been really helpful. I've been doing some research and bible reading and I definitely understand the verse much better, and I understand more about the fruits of the spirit and His guiding work within us.

Now I just live in prayer in everything because I know God will lead me wherever I'm supposed to go; don't have to worry about the flesh.
The good thing about God is you never have to do it alone!

 

[Stickz]

AudreyNicole: I just read an article that states this from Galatians 5:17:

We naturally love to do evil things that are just the opposite from the things that the Holy Spirit tells us to do; and the good things we want to do when the Spirit has his way with us are just the opposite of our natural desires. These two forces within us are constantly fighting each other to win control over us, and our wishes are never free from their pressures.

This is a little difficult for me to understand. I am a recently saved Christian and am working on learning and following the word of God, and recognizing His leading in my life. I am learning to surrender myself to Him and His control, and give up my own will for His.

Knowing God's will and following it everyday of our lives doesn't seem too difficult, all you have to do is ask and read, right?...but then I read this and it seems to say that everything we want to do, everything we dream to do, is against God... and so we should do the opposite. It makes it sound like if you want to do God's will then you just do the opposite of what you want to do. And this of course seems silly... and it would lead to a miserable existence. So how do you explain this verse?

I guess I'm just confused because it makes doing God's will seem scary and unappealing. I know when we're saved we are transformed and given a heart of flesh and lose our heart of stone. So does this verse apply to those saved? I know there will always be temptation and sin, even in the lives of believers. But if you truly desire to do God's will, and pray for Him to change your heart to reflect His desires, then are your wants and desires still evil?

You are either going to fulfill the desires of the flesh, or you are going to fulfill God's will for your life through the Spirit. There are no other options. You are either for Him, or against Him.

I believe Romans 8 and Galatians 5 to complement one another:

Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

 

[SMT]

Hi Audrey,

Your innocence as a new babe in Christ is bliss. And to be quite honest, your first thoughts about all of this as a new born babe in Christ are quite correct. And as you grow in Christ you will come to find out that many will only muddy the waters for you on many issues, such as on this one you are bringing up. There are a lot of “winds” of doctrine out there. And you will find yourself studying like crazy to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. I have been a Christian now for over 43 years, and I have heard it all. And the overwhelming majority of voices out there in Christendom can be extremely daunting, to say the least. Time, study and a heart for God’s (and not man’s) truth will cause you to prevail with both God and man.

It’s been a few years since you asked your question. So I don’t know if it is helpful for me to even give an answer to your question so late in the game. It is my hope and prayer though that it will be. You have already heard many voices to convince you otherwise about your first thoughts and inclinations towards all of this. And it will be very difficult for me to interject anything to the contrary without a lot of uproar by those who would disagree with me.

So, with that said, what I am about to say to you goes against the grain of all those who have already given an answer to you, which is the common “canned” and “parroted” answer that is given by most Christians of the struggles going on inside the Christian between their old nature and their new nature; between that part of us that is supposedly still unregenerate, as opposed to that part of us that is regenerate; between that part of us that is considered to be our old man and that part of us that is considered to be our new man—giving us a supposed “dual-nature” view of ourselves. But we are not two hearts beating to two different drums. We are, just as you said, no longer those with a heart of stone but with a heart of flesh; the former (the heart of stone) is who we use to be when we were dead in sins and trespasses, the latter (the heart of flesh) is who we are now alive unto God. Many take those verses that you quote in Ezk. 11:19 and 36:26 as applying to Israel in the future, but they apply to all of us now, to the Jew first and then also to the Gentiles. So, again, we are not two hearts beating to two different drums. “That which is born of the Spirit, is spirit” (i.e., our heart; Jhn. 3:6). We are not partly born in our spirit; we are not partly regenerated; and we are not part old man and part new man. We are fully regenerated and born of God’s Spirit with one new heart as one new man and new creature in Christ.

So, what about Gal. 5:17? Like Rom. 7:15-21, this verse in Galatians has to do with those still under the Law and not under grace, which is the same as saying all those who are still “of the flesh” and not “of the Spirit.” Galatians 5:16-18 parallels Romans chapters 6-11 in a smaller outline form. Gal. 5:16 mirrors Romans 8 (esp. vv. 4 and 9); Gal. 5:17 mirrors Romans 7 (esp. vv. 15-21); and Gal. 5:18 mirrors Romans 6 (esp. v. 14). We are not in the flesh as those who cannot please God in Romans 8; we are not of those who cannot do the good that they want to do while still “fleshly” and under the Law in Romans 7; and we are not slaves to the Law and to sin as Paul bemoans of those in Romans 6 who are not under grace. On the contrary, in Romans 6 we are slaves to God which leads to righteousness and holiness. This is our high calling; no more alive to sin, but dead to it! We just now need to “reckon” it as so in our mortal bodies (Rom. 6:11ff).

Now, while many Christians like myself actually see Romans 7 as referring to Paul is his unregenerate state (or not as a believer); most, if not all, see Gal. 5:16-18 as referring to the struggles of the Christian, since the Spirit is mentioned there unlike in Romans 7. But the “Spirit“ and the “spiritual Law” are both one and the same; to speak of one is to speak of the other. So it is along these lines that I also believe, as do most, that Paul is in fact saying the same things to the Galatians that he was saying to the Romans, but only to those who were still under the Law and not under grace. Therefore, these so-called “struggles” are not our struggles, but of those who are still "under the law" and thus still "in the flesh." Many, like those who have attempted to answer your question, see Romans 7 and Gal. 5:16-18 as depicting the struggles of the saints. But, again, I beg to differ. And many definitely agree with me on this when it comes to understanding the person Paul is describing in Rom. 7:7-25. Here in Romans 7:15-21 and Gal. 5:17 there is just too much of not being able to do the good that one wishes to do, than there is of those who actually seem to be doing it.

 

[SMT]

Hi Audrey,

I wanted to add some more thoughts to my former comment, but I am not able to edit that statement. So I will just add here in another reply what I wanted to additionally say.

A lot of what I said naturally raises some more questions as to what “flesh” means in Gal. 5:13, 19 and 24. In all of these verses the term “flesh” describes who we were prior to being in Christ as one who is wholly in and of the flesh (like Paul says of himself before he was saved in Rom. 7-25). And in the immediate context of Gal. 5:13, it has to do with those who are considering returning to being “under the law” (also synonymous to still being in or of “the flesh”). To do so would be “falling from grace” (cf. Gal. 5:4) as most commentators believe is tantamount to not even being saved in the first place. As such, the Galatians’ “liberty” was from being no longer under the Law which Paul calls “a yoke of slavery” in Gal. 5:1. And so to return to the Law as a means of saving grace was abandoning faith and Christ for the Law. In essence, like those addressed in the epistle to the Hebrews, they have trampled the Son of God underfoot and have treated the blood of the covenant that sanctified them as an unholy thing, having insulted the Spirit of grace (cf. Heb. 10:29). These too are said to have “fallen away,” and that, “to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to public disgrace” (Heb. 6:6, NIV). And so Paul continues in Gal. 5:13c-14 that it is only through grace and love that we fulfill that Law, not by being “under the Law.” Being under the Law (or still “in the flesh”) produces all those things mentioned in Gal. 5:17 and 19-21; and all such people “will not inherit the kingdom of God” (Gal. 5:21); which, again, most commentators understand as those who are not born of God.

In Gal. 5:24, Paul is just repeating what has once-and-for-all (past tense) occurred to us as in Rom. 6:6 and Gal. 2:20 when our old man (aka, “the flesh”) was crucified, and where we no longer walk after the flesh but after the Spirit. In Gal. 5:24, the Greek “active” voice denotes our part in appropriating Christ’s death to our “flesh” (or our old man) through our faith; while in Rom. 6:6 and Gal. 2:20, the Greek “passive” voice denotes God’s part in doing this for us through Christ. And this is all similar to Php. 2:12-13 which says that we are to work out our own salvation, and that it is also God who is at work within us both to will and to act according to His good pleasure.

Contrary to popular opinion, the old man (“the flesh” or the old “heart of stone”) no longer lives in us anymore. He is dead, removed (or circumcised) entirely from our life. And the Greek (and even most of our English translations) also makes this clear to us by stating in Rom. 6:6 that our old man “was” (past tense) crucified (or killed), never to be crucified again; and that we “have” (past tense) put off the old man like old clothing in Col. 3:9 and Eph. 4:22 (with this latter verse in Ephesians better understood when read in the Holman Christian Standard Bible, the Darby Bible translation and the Kenneth Wuest Expanded Translation as a past tense event, and not something we are still to do). All of these verses, in the Greek, are in the “aorist tense” denoting a once-and-for-all past tense punctiliar event. Eph. 4:22 is not to be translated in a way that contradicts what Rom. 6:6 and Col. 3:9 clearly state in no uncertain terms. Ephesians corroborates what Romans and Colossians emphatically substantiate.

Those in Galatia who truly belong to the Lord Jesus Christ HAVE crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. As such, they are no loner under law but under grace.