Former things?

[B-A-C]

Isa 65:17; "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.

Rev 21:4; and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."

I am not trying to build a doctrine here... this is just a question...
Will we remember the unsaved when the new earth and heavens come?
Even our families? Spouses?

 

[Bendito]

Isa 65:17; "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.

Rev 21:4; and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."

I am not trying to build a doctrine here... this is just a question...
Will we remember the unsaved when the new earth and heavens come?
Even our families? Spouses?

I think not. The pain of seeing loved ones lost will pass, even the guilt of not speaking when we should have will pass. Even in these flesh bodies that we wear now we forget nothing...How much more will we remember everything in our glorified bodies..
From what I understand from the original....forget would mean 'left behind' or discarded?

 

[Curtis]

Isa 66:22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your offspring and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD.
Isa 66:24 “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

I do not think that remembering loved ones whom we knew while living in flesh, and bone body will come to mind. The enemy of our souls would like us to remember them as a way to torment us, but at that time he will be in the lake of fire for eternity.
The only thing we will remember is what Jesus said the Holy Spirit would bring to our remembrance which is every thing Jesus has spoken to us.

 

[KingJ]

Isa 65:17; "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.

Rev 21:4; and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."

I am not trying to build a doctrine here... this is just a question...
Will we remember the unsaved when the new earth and heavens come?
Even our families? Spouses?

I firmly believe so, yes.

I am going to play devil's advocate a bit.

Support for 'not remembering'.

1. Many would say that Rev 14:10 is evidence of us living with the knowledge of the wicked. I used to. But when we properly read the full chapter we see it relates to the tribulation period. It is not a verse speaking to eternal damnation. It is what happens at a moment in time, in the tribulation. It supports my belief on no ''fire and burning sulfur'' for those in hell :wink:.

Rev 14:10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

2. Another verse miss quoted in support is Rev 6:9-10 9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth.

Your verse in Isaiah says a new heaven comes. Those speaking here are in the old heaven.

Support for remembering:

1. The 'former things' mentioned in vs 17 relates to the 'former troubles' as mentioned in vs 16.

Isa 65:16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

2. The new Jerusalem is called the new Jerusalem. Rev 21:1-2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.

3. All new is relative. The new Jerusalem has walls and gems we use today. Rev 21:18-21 The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. 19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.

4. 1 Cor 13:12. We will not see through a glass darkly in heaven. This points to the complete opposite of restraint and removal of memories and knowledge. It speaks to opening our eyes. An upgrade to our minds.

5. Christian common sense based off of all scripture.

God has never been a 'closed book'. He is an open book. When we propose He will completely remove our memories it implies:

a. He has something to hide. Like perhaps a cruel and terrifying hell.
b. He is a tyrant of sort. He does not give us the choice of keeping our memories.
c. We will forget Jesus saving us?

Conclusion:

He will give us the ability to deal with our memories that brought us pain. There will be nothing happening at that time 'in the current' that will bring us pain. There will be no familiar locations that remind us of pain.

God is a 100% open book. We will be able to view those in hell at any time of the day. We will be able to tap into any past memory we desire.

We give glory to God now, because He is good Psalm 136:1. We will give glory to God in the new heaven, in the future, because He is good. We can discern in the now what is good, we will definitely be able to discern in the future, what is good and right. A closed book policy will never be good and right.

 

[D_Martin]

if your fulfillment is in the Lord then that is what you shall have, if not, then you will have nothing. that which is of God will remain with God that which is of the earth remains with the earth, hence returns to dust and ashes. there's no memory in dust and ashes.

anything other than that is speculative dribble, that will not be true.

 

[Curtis]

Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

This must have been an actual event that too place as Jesus never used peoples names in a parable.

 

[B-A-C]

This must have been an actual event that too place as Jesus never used peoples names in a parable.

I agree with all of what you say here... still... even in the story of Lazarus and rthe rich man... the new heavens and new earth haven't come yet. The old things haven't passed away yet. .. also.. technically.. Abaraham Bosom and Hades aren't heaven and the Lake of Fire.