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For Pelagianians, Semi- pelagians, and a lot Armenians, do not care even care for their souls neither the souls of their own Children.

Active
By there fruits you will know who they are. And by their [works and words] you will know them, Show me thy faith by your works and [words that comes out of your mouth.] And there are many who teach the "doctrine of man" as the "Doctrine of GOD" in religious gatherings and they do not know the difference between the two.
By the speech and works of many believers, in this day and era, christianity seems to have a over growth , and identity into full pledge "Pelagianism", across the board in every denomination.] And by doing such, the "gospel according to Jesus Christ", has been unknown to many and been replace by the "[Gospel according to the religion of ManKind". and label as the "gospel according to Jesus Christ"! And if the blind follow the blind they both fall into the _____.

Matthew 16:26
What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?
Mark 8:35
For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and for the gospel will save it.
(John 12:).
…24Truly, truly, I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a seed; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. 25Whoever loves his life will lose it, but whoeverhates his life in this world will keep it for eternallife. 26If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, My servant will be as well. If anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.
 
Active
The modern western Church is in error. For the first 300 years (taught by the Apostles who were taught by Christ) what people call "semi-Pelasian" or Arminian is NOT a heresy. but actually what was taught by the Apostles. Must read the earliest (Ante-Nicene) fathers. We identify Pelagianism by the Augustinian Against Pelagius but Calvin and others FAILED to read the entire matter which is expounded on in Augustine's Grace and Free Will. Works ARE part of Salvation (Ephesians 2:10; James 2:18)...not that they save but they are a consequence of true faith and are very important to Jesus (Matthew 25:31-46)...we who have HIS Spirit manifest these works (whatever He foreordained for you to DO) in our lives....be blessed my brother....
 
Active
The modern western Church is in error. For the first 300 years (taught by the Apostles who were taught by Christ) what people call "semi-Pelasian" or Arminian is NOT a heresy. but actually what was taught by the Apostles. Must read the earliest (Ante-Nicene) fathers. We identify Pelagianism by the Augustinian Against Pelagius but Calvin and others FAILED to read the entire matter which is expounded on in Augustine's Grace and Free Will. Works ARE part of Salvation (Ephesians 2:10; James 2:18)...not that they save but they are a consequence of true faith and are very important to Jesus (Matthew 25:31-46)...we who have HIS Spirit manifest these works (whatever He foreordained for you to DO) in our lives....be blessed my brother....
I have said nothing about "Calvinism" , heresies, or what the church fathers have taught neither have i spoke about the councils. And if I did concerning this matter I would have address The Dutch, concerning 1610 "Remonstrants" at The "Synod of Dort'. and the argument for in which you are trying to draw me into has nothing to do with the Thread title or Post # 1. and further more you are not read up enough, concerning the church fathers and the councils and articles of Pelagius, or the collective work of "Aurelius Augustinus;, Calvin or Jacob Armenian. Because i do believe you are a Deceiver in such debates and your Home Library of collection will testify to the Truth. For there is a Difference between a "Bumble Bee and a Honey Bee".
So may we not put more wood of this fire and let the smothering wick burn out.

Shalom.
 
Loyal
The modern western Church is in error. For the first 300 years (taught by the Apostles who were taught by Christ) what people call "semi-Pelasian" or Arminian is NOT a heresy. but actually what was taught by the Apostles.
Agreed. But not "all" western churches teach this. The largest protestant denomination is the world is Arminian.
Of course the biggest difference between Pelagians and Armenians is... Armenians believe you still need Jesus. You aren't saved on your own.
Pelagians are more of a "I can be good enough on my own without Jesus" theology.
 
Active
I have said nothing about "Calvinism" , heresies, or what the church fathers have taught neither have i spoke about the councils. And if I did concerning this matter I would have address The Dutch, concerning 1610 "Remonstrants" at The "Synod of Dort'. and the argument for in which you are trying to draw me into has nothing to do with the Thread title or Post # 1. and further more you are not read up enough, concerning the church fathers and the councils and articles of Pelagius, or the collective work of "Aurelius Augustinus;, Calvin or Jacob Armenian. Because i do believe you are a Deceiver in such debates and your Home Library of collection will testify to the Truth. For there is a Difference between a "Bumble Bee and a Honey Bee".
So may we not put more wood of this fire and let the smothering wick burn out.

Shalom.
They certainly care about their souls and their children's souls
 
Active
Agreed. But not "all" western churches teach this. The largest protestant denomination is the world is Arminian.
Of course the biggest difference between Pelagians and Armenians is... Armenians believe you still need Jesus. You aren't saved on your own.
Pelagians are more of a "I can be good enough on my own without Jesus" theology.
Yes that is the difference
 
Active
I haven't watched tv for years. My tv sits unplugged unless I want to watch family videos or a fine Christ based CD or history based CD.
Paul Washer is not my ruler nor is he my instructor, My discernment is in operation as well as as His. What is the difference in sending your Children to school and the university, the whole world lies in wickedness and Satan is the ruler of this world.. Where are you going to Hide. Who resources are you going to use?
Who's heat and airc condiction services you are going to use. Who's electric company burns your lights and power the power appliances. The RCC owns 51% of General Motors, and far more in many other investments makes it King if the Hill>

PS I like Paul Washer! But he still is not my instructor nor Lord. a TV is nothing but a tool.
 
Active
Accept the finished work of the Lord Jesus
Well what does that mean?
Agreed. But not "all" western churches teach this. The largest protestant denomination is the world is Arminian.
Of course the biggest difference between Pelagians and Armenians is... Armenians believe you still need Jesus. You aren't saved on your own.
Pelagians are more of a "I can be good enough on my own without Jesus" theology.
Please! The "Armenian Church" and "Arminianism" are completely two different things!
!. The Armenian Church is a Apostolic Church for the Armenian People!

2. Arminianism is a type of teaching not a church organization or denomination. It is a type of doctrine name after "Jacob Arminian" referring back to the " 1619 Remonstrants" held at the "Synod of Dort" concerning the 5 articles of Arminianism, and was question and debated and that is when the 5 points of Calvinism was Born in defense, by Great Theologians of many faiths and many countries in regards to the 5 Articles of The Remonstrants (1610). Present by The students of the late "Jacob Arminian". Those sessions of defense and counters is were the 5 Points of Calvinism was Born, The arguments against The 5 articles of Arminianism were very strong and those arguments is what develop the "5 Points" of Calvinism. By a counsel of mix denominations.

Available For all The "Remonstrants of 1619" that convene at The "Synod of Dort" is available, every word that was said and the arguments are there the pro's and cons in defense of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. When you read what took place and the very things that was said. then you decide and come to your own conclusion.

PS
I think people are getting The Armenian Church mix up with "Arminianism teaching".. They are not the same thing. Two completely deferent things. you can hold to "Arminianism" no matter what denomination you are "baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, it is not a denomination it is a way of thinking. Arminianism, Pelagianism, semi- Pelagianism, Calvinistic, Augustinian, it is a way of thinking, how you view certain things concerning The Holy Scripture, it has nothing to do with your salvation. I know some people just do not get it, but some of us know the different kinds of "Schools of Thought". by years of training. And learning the basic and why such terms have been coined. So that we can have a better avenue of Communications, with another that we may arrived together in understanding the Truth.

And many feel they do not need too! But that is why they fight to condemn the methods because they feel it does not take all of that! In My past i have heard many have said this, "I ain't that deep, I stay on the Beach" Their words are not mines. "Don't be so heavenly minded, that you are no earthly good" throwing pie in my face, was the intentions. So i take my ball and bat and go home. No problem. So in other words they want me to slow down to a crawl. and past my time in limbo. Or laziness, Where ever a man spends most of his time is where His heart is, i would think. Is he searching for the Unadulterated truth. or regurgitation.

The Parables of the Treasure and Pearl
"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and in his joy he went and sold all he had and bought that field. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls. When he found one very precious pearl, he went away and sold all he had and bought it."…

I have found a great pearl!

I did a typo in the Title sometimes the Print of Arminian will change to Armenian. For sometimes computers will not recognize Theological words.
So chalk that as my error.
 
Active
Top Poster Of Month
Paul Washer is not my ruler nor is he my instructor, My discernment is in operation as well as as His. What is the difference in sending your Children to school and the university, the whole world lies in wickedness and Satan is the ruler of this world.. Where are you going to Hide. Who resources are you going to use?
Who's heat and airc condiction services you are going to use. Who's electric company burns your lights and power the power appliances. The RCC owns 51% of General Motors, and far more in many other investments makes it King if the Hill>

PS I like Paul Washer! But he still is not my instructor nor Lord. a TV is nothing but a tool.
I did not hear of Paul Washer when I stopped TV altogether. But he is right about TV: it's loaded with perversion. TV is a tool, yes. But who controls what is transmitted? Evil doers and perverts. Who controls the advertisements? Evildoers and perverts. What you watch goes into your mind and it can, and often will, manifest in your heart. When I pay utilities, or buy retail items, or buy groceries, I am not subjecting my mind and heart to the obvious visual filth that TV produces. TV is full of filth and those who watch it for "entertainment value" are being deceived.

Blessings
 
Active
Brother Paul said:
Accept the finished work of the Lord Jesus
Well what does that mean?

That means what is described in John 1:12 and Ephesians 1:13-14....when God moves us or speaks to us through the word or by the Spirit or in response to an actual Prophet we must respond correctly. God wills that ALL would come to repentance and be saved, but alas all will not. For though light HAS come into the world men PREFER the darkness.

Because all have sinned (an act of their own will) and fallen short we are all destined to condemnation (Isaiah 59:2...our sin not because we sinned) which grieves God terribly (Ezekiel 19:23; 33:11) and Jesus is He who was sent from God to be the propitiation for those sins, we must see that we require Him and accept/recieve Him to become born of HIS Spirit (Romans 8:9),,,,not the reason all will not receive Him is because we like being our own god (Genesis 3:5) deciding good and evil as seems right in our own eyes (Google "right in their own eyes").


the Ephesians 1 reference above says (now pay close attention) "13 In whom ye also trusted, AFTER that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also AFTER that ye believed, YE WERE SEALED with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Clearly this (like the reference I gave from John) shows that you r3ecieve the Spirit AFTER you having heard the gospel believe (not all do because they reject the knowledge of God)...so it IS NOT that once you receive the Holy Spirit THEN you believe...no you must take the step of placing your trust in God at His prompting to receive the Spirit....
'
Now finally for now let me make this perfectly clear....For we are saved by grace (it is totally God because He owes us nothing and we all deserve condemnation) though faith (this is His plan not ours but we are required to respond appropriately)as part of that plan) and that not of ourselves (we do NOT get us saved by what we do) BUT ALSO " we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So first we must and can (because He made us ALL to be capable at some level or another) respond and then once born of His Spirit we should walk in these works He foreordained that we should do....
 
Active
Top Poster Of Month
Well what does that mean?

That means what is described in John 1:12 and Ephesians 1:13-14....when God moves us or speaks to us through the word or by the Spirit or in response to an actual Prophet we must respond correctly. God wills that ALL would come to repentance and be saved, but alas all will not. For though light HAS come into the world men PREFER the darkness.

Because all have sinned (an act of their own will) and fallen short we are all destined to condemnation (Isaiah 59:2...our sin not because we sinned) which grieves God terribly (Ezekiel 19:23; 33:11) and Jesus is He who was sent from God to be the propitiation for those sins, we must see that we require Him and accept/recieve Him to become born of HIS Spirit (Romans 8:9),,,,not the reason all will not receive Him is because we like being our own god (Genesis 3:5) deciding good and evil as seems right in our own eyes (Google "right in their own eyes").


the Ephesians 1 reference above says (now pay close attention) "13 In whom ye also trusted, AFTER that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also AFTER that ye believed, YE WERE SEALED with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Clearly this (like the reference I gave from John) shows that you r3ecieve the Spirit AFTER you having heard the gospel believe (not all do because they reject the knowledge of God)...so it IS NOT that once you receive the Holy Spirit THEN you believe...no you must take the step of placing your trust in God at His prompting to receive the Spirit....
'
Now finally for now let me make this perfectly clear....For we are saved by grace (it is totally God because He owes us nothing and we all deserve condemnation) though faith (this is His plan not ours but we are required to respond appropriately)as part of that plan) and that not of ourselves (we do NOT get us saved by what we do) BUT ALSO " we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So first we must and can (because He made us ALL to be capable at some level or another) respond and then once born of His Spirit we should walk in these works He foreordained that we should do....
Amen. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Regeneration - being BORN AGAIN - is of God the Holy Spirit. I believed once, that it was a step-by-step process. But now I see that it is by the almighty power of God that it is a simultaneous change of our minds, turning away from the destruction in our lives and turning back toward God who loves us, and believing, i.e., putting our faith, trust, and rest in God's finished work on the cross. It all happens at once.

To many born again believers, there may have been a time where he or she heard the good news and gave it some thought, but did not truly repent nor surrender to God. But at some later point in life, he or she was convicted deep in his or her soul with the knowledge that Jesus IS the way, the truth, and the life, and at that moment was regenerated completely from lost and perishing to found and living life abudantly for the Lord.

Blessings.
 
Active
So how would a person know if these things are true. And how would a person know if God is talking to them, Hearing voices sometimes is not good. How would a person know the voice is God, since they do not know Him anyway or the sound of His Voice. Satan speaks too, and knows the Bible well and can quote Scripture real good. " bow down and I will give you this, and will show you all the Kingdoms of the world." For it is mines to give. For He also appears as a Angel of light. So a person is to just take a persons word and drink the "Cool-aid"?

This happens in real life. How would a person know the Truth if he has never been there.


New King James Version
"For you travel land and sea to convert one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves."
 
Active
I did not hear of Paul Washer when I stopped TV altogether. But he is right about TV: it's loaded with perversion. TV is a tool, yes. But who controls what is transmitted? Evil doers and perverts. Who controls the advertisements? Evildoers and perverts. What you watch goes into your mind and it can, and often will, manifest in your heart. When I pay utilities, or buy retail items, or buy groceries, I am not subjecting my mind and heart to the obvious visual filth that TV produces. TV is full of filth and those who watch it for "entertainment value" are being deceived.

Blessings
TV is full of filth! True i agree. So is the air. :eyes:
 
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Top Poster Of Month
So how would a person know if these things are true. And how would a person know if God is talking to them, Hearing voices sometimes is not good. How would a person know the voice is God, since they do not know Him anyway or the sound of His Voice. Satan speaks too, and knows the Bible well and can quote Scripture real good. " bow down and I will give you this, and will show you all the Kingdoms of the world." For it is mines to give. For He also appears as a Angel of light. So a person is to just take a persons word and drink the "Cool-aid"?

This happens in real life. How would a person know the Truth if he has never been there.


New King James Version
"For you travel land and sea to convert one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves."
The truth sets you free from the bonds of sin. Regeneration is from above, from the Holy Spirit, and HE will convict you of your sin and you will feel HIS presence within. The sorrow for the sin that you've committed accompanies regeneration.

A person that is regenerated is filled with God the Holy Spirit, he or she is filled with truth because the Holy Spirit is truth. Someone regenerated will live holy and will follow the truth, not by their own power but by the power of the Holy Spirit within them. We live in the flesh and the battle in the flesh is continuous, but when the truth is in you, you will put on the whole armor of God in order to stand against evil in the world. Fact.

When I was regenerated - BORN AGAIN FROM ABOVE, hallelujah praise Jesus - the Spirit led me to share my faith with family, friends, acquaintances, strangers, and that continues to this very day. I wasn't sharing Satan or commending sinful behavior, I was changed, passed from death to life, all that matters most to me is sharing with others the cure for sin and death: the good news of Jesus Christ.

If someone says they are born again, but lives like the devil and continues in their sin without a second thought about turning from the pleasures that they derive frim sin, their testimony is false and the truth is not in them.

Blessings.
 
Active
So how would a person know if these things are true. And how would a person know if God is talking to them, Hearing voices sometimes is not good. How would a person know the voice is God, since they do not know Him anyway or the sound of His Voice. Satan speaks too, and knows the Bible well and can quote Scripture real good. " bow down and I will give you this, and will show you all the Kingdoms of the world." For it is mines to give. For He also appears as a Angel of light. So a person is to just take a persons word and drink the "Cool-aid"?

This happens in real life. How would a person know the Truth if he has never been there.


New King James Version
"For you travel land and sea to convert one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves."
Interesting question....You know how you know the voice of your mom or your best friend? Even if someone could mimic their voice you KNOW THEM...you know their background, their habits, what they hold dear and true, what they believe and might advise, and so on....so if someone spoke to you and sounded the same, depending on what they said or how they acted or what they suggested you do you would know if it REALLY was them or not. One of the main reasons you are so familiar with them is because you spent so much time with them....it is like when a person KNPOWS the truth about something so well that if the false is presented it sticks right out and that person can tell it is false.....

So the first step you would have to make is to spend a lot of time with the Lord....next get to know what and how He thinks and were he to advise you what He would say...so though over my life I have heard many voices in my heart or mind (most are different parts of me) but rarely do they ever speak to me the ways or will of God which I can check by comparing it to His word.l..

Sorry I have to leave....
 
Active
The truth sets you free from the bonds of sin. Regeneration is from above, from the Holy Spirit, and HE will convict you of your sin and you will feel HIS presence within. The sorrow for the sin that you've committed accompanies regeneration.

A person that is regenerated is filled with God the Holy Spirit, he or she is filled with truth because the Holy Spirit is truth. Someone regenerated will live holy and will follow the truth, not by their own power but by the power of the Holy Spirit within them. We live in the flesh and the battle in the flesh is continuous, but when the truth is in you, you will put on the whole armor of God in order to stand against evil in the world. Fact.

When I was regenerated - BORN AGAIN FROM ABOVE, hallelujah praise Jesus - the Spirit led me to share my faith with family, friends, acquaintances, strangers, and that continues to this very day. I wasn't sharing Satan or commending sinful behavior, I was changed, passed from death to life, all that matters most to me is sharing with others the cure for sin and death: the good news of Jesus Christ.

If someone says they are born again, but lives like the devil and continues in their sin without a second thought about turning from the pleasures that they derive frim sin, their testimony is false and the truth is not in them.

Blessings.
I understand what you are talking about concerning Regeneration. My point i have, no argument concerning Salvation , according to the unadulterated "Word of Truth" for it is GOD's business and not mines, But the Word commands me to work out of that salvation. This world does not belong to me. I am not its creator. I am just a piece of clay [dirt]. a vessel being shape by GOD into the creature HE intends for me to be. For i cannot stop it or guide the molding of HIS hands for HE is GOD and HIs will, will be done. I had no power to enter this place, through a physical birth, neither i had the power to enter a "Spiritual" birth. Neither the power to be born from a man and woman, neither the power to be "born of God", for in both cases I have never existed, So I am only a creature waiting , for the outcome, to see what i shall be. Wondering, pondering, and expectation that I will see and behold my Creator to see Him and to see HIM as He is. Until then, I will occupy until He comes back again. For i can do nothing more. I am just a created vessel, nothing more and nothing less. Maybe others, might be more. But others do not know me, so others cannot speak for me and tell me who or what I am. For i do know, what type of person I am, others don't. for I only can testify concerning myself. And there will I stand. and another thing, I do know, I am not like the people of this world!:pensive: i might look like them i might speak the same language drink the same water and eat the same food, but one thing I know, "I am different" from the creatures of this world. I am a Stranger Here, The Word of GOD has proclaim "Explicitly and Implicitly" that I am a "Pilgrim" a traveler, traveling through this strange land. If this is not true, like the "saints of old" has said:
NASB 1977
If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.
1 Corinthians 4:9
For it seems to me that God has displayed us apostles at the end of the procession, like prisoners appointed for death. We have become a spectacle to the whole world, to angels as well as to men.
2 Timothy 3:12
Indeed, all who desire to live godly lives in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,:eyes:

And That is a "Promise"!

And every now and then, throughout the years He reminds me, that I am different, and when I let my guards down and try to walk in their ways, His hands become heavy and reminds me who I am. For I am His child, and HE treats me with the Love of a discipline father. And His discipline hand, is hard, harsh, that it may produce "Much Fruit"!

NASB 1977
The LORD has disciplined me severely, But He has not given me over to death.
1 Corinthians 11:32
But when we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.
Jeremiah 31:18
I have surely heard Ephraim's moaning: 'You disciplined me severely, like an untrained calf. Restore me, that I may return, for You are the LORD my God.

David did not Escape:pensive: Nor will you. "God is not mock"

2 Samuel 12:10
"Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised ME and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife."

Children you cannot escape Gods hand of Discipline:pensive:

(Jeremiah 30)KJV
10‘Therefore do not fear, O My servant Jacob,’ says the Lord,
‘Nor be dismayed, O Israel;
For behold, I will save you from afar,
And your seed from the land of their captivity.
Jacob shall return, have rest and be quiet,
And no one shall make him afraid.
11For I am with you,’ says the Lord, ‘to save you;
Though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you,
Yet I will not make a complete end of you.
But I will correct you in justice,
And will not let you go altogether unpunished.’
12“For thus says the Lord:

‘Your affliction is incurable,
Your wound is severe.
13There is no one to plead your cause,
That you may be bound up;
You have no healing medicines.
14All your lovers have forgotten you;
They do not seek you;
For I have wounded you with the wound of an enemy,
With the chastisement of a cruel one,
For the multitude of your iniquities,
Because your sins have increased.
15Why do you cry about your affliction?
Your sorrow is incurable.
Because of the multitude of your iniquities,
Because your sins have increased,
I have done these things to you.
16‘Therefore all those who devour you shall be devoured;
And all your adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity;
Those who plunder you shall become plunder,
And all who prey upon you I will make a prey.
17For I will restore health to you
And heal you of your wounds,’ says the Lord,
‘Because they called you an outcast saying:
“This is Zion;
No one seeks her.” ’

[If you have never been there, you do not know how deep the Love of GOD really is. When HE treats you with the wounds that it seems, was made for an enemy. ]
so:

(Micah 7).NASB COPYRIGHT 1977
But as for me, I will watch expectantly for the LORD;
I will wait for the God of my salvation.
My God will hear me.

Do not rejoice over me, O my enemy.
Though I fall I will rise;
Though I dwell in darkness, the LORD is a light for me.

I will bear the indignation of the LORD
Because I have sinned against Him,
Until He pleads my case and executes justice for me.
He will bring me out to the light,
And I will see His righteousness.

Then my enemy will see,
And shame will cover her who said to me,
“Where is the LORD your God?”
My eyes will look on her;:pensive:

Shalom, My true Brothers and Sisters in Christ. He is, Our Father.:pensive:
 
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