Financial Believing
- Thread starter Quenton
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Word-Faith teachers are famous for the "name it and claim it," "confess it and possess it" theology of greed. Word in Word-Faith does not mean the Word of God, the Bible. It means the words of men, who are in their view, gods. These teachers claim that the spoken words of believers, whether truly Christians or not, activate God. When we do not use our words to activate God, He cannot help us. When we use our confession according to the proper formulas, He is then bound to act on our behalf. Copeland goes so far as to say, "Faith is God's source of power" (Freedom From Fear, 1983. p. 12. emphasis original). Frederick Price says, "Yes! You are in control! So, if man has control, who no longer has it? God" ("Prayer: Do You Know What Prayer Is...and How to Pray?," The Word Study Bible, 1990. p. 1178).These teachers love to claim Proverbs 6:2 as a proof-text: "Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth, thou art taken with the words of thy mouth." But the verse has nothing whatsoever to do with the activation of faith laws by our confession. Examined within its context, it is clearly a teaching on making ill-advised promises.Word-Faith teachers to exalt man to the status of godhood, they also demote God to the status of the genie in the lamp. The Word-Faith movement is the worship of our faith rather than the worship of God. We must interpret the title of one of Hagin's books, Having Faith in Your Faith, as a mockery of having faith in God.By saying the right formulas, can people control God?
No I don't think the strength of your belief in receiving money will influence God's provisions. That is more of a worldy "think and grow rich" philosophy.
You can certainly ask the Lord to provide for your needs and for wisdom in dealing with finances. Just remember where your priorities lie.
Mat 6:19-21 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; (20) but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. (21) For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Thiscrosshurts
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I agree with James g and agua.
Faith is a power that can be used without God.
Gen 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people [is] one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
It can be translated "the people sing the same song".
It can also be translated as "The People is one" - one race, with one purpose. "And they have all one lip."
It was about the "power of agreement" with people of like mind and faith.
A married couple can live in the same house and speak the same language and still not agree on anything.
The other end of the "doctrines of men" spectrum would be fearing wealth or exalting poverty.
Prov 13:22 A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children, but the wealth of the sinner is stored for the righteous.
Wealth has it's purpose.
Remember the "love of money",is the root of evil not money itself.
In the first century church the believers held everything in common.
It was actually a communist community.
The profit Samuel also had the school of the profits which held all wealth in common.
Of course today's communism is a distorted version of the real thing.
Faith is a power that can be used without God.
Gen 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people [is] one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
It can be translated "the people sing the same song".
It can also be translated as "The People is one" - one race, with one purpose. "And they have all one lip."
It was about the "power of agreement" with people of like mind and faith.
A married couple can live in the same house and speak the same language and still not agree on anything.
The other end of the "doctrines of men" spectrum would be fearing wealth or exalting poverty.
Prov 13:22 A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children, but the wealth of the sinner is stored for the righteous.
Wealth has it's purpose.
Remember the "love of money",is the root of evil not money itself.
In the first century church the believers held everything in common.
It was actually a communist community.
The profit Samuel also had the school of the profits which held all wealth in common.
Of course today's communism is a distorted version of the real thing.
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If you follow God and do what He guides you to do, you will not worry. Jesus says not to ask God repeatedley for something He already knows you need. Therefore, follow God and do as He says, He will give you what you need to do what you need.
WantToKnowHim
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For me, financial support can make you satisfied...for a second...
Only God can give you satisfaction and happiness...money can't buy that..
Only God can give you satisfaction and happiness...money can't buy that..
Let me ask you a question...if God provides is it greed? Because the only way for God to g ive us anything is if we have the faith and the heart. The wrong heart will cancel out faith that God says is the only way for Him to move on our behalf.
I've never heard any of the Word of Faith teachers use Proverbs 6:2 as a foundation
So your saying no matter the amount of faith you have it doesn't mean necessarily that God will provide? Do provide a scripture that says that
To this I also say it depends on the heart
For me, financial support can make you satisfied...for a second...
Only God can give you satisfaction and happiness...money can't buy that..
Thats not what financial believing is about
it's not about satisfying ourselves compared to the heart of we want to satisfy GodThats not what financial believing is about
Never witnessed this in any of the WOF icons. It is all about satisfying self.
If your speaking of WOF teachings like Copeland, Dollar, Meyer and such, I used to many years ago before I began to spiritually mature.:shade:
Satisfying oneself comes from the satisfying of God when that is the heart behind it. Perhaps you haven't been to enough
I actually disagree with Dollar so I don't listen to him...however I think you should watch what you say your last sentence almost makes it look like your saying your more spiritually mature than I am and I am a WoF believer and future teacher. And that just isn't your place to say
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my short answer to your question is NO, I don't believe in this. It's a lie from the pit of hell, just to be clear.
3 questions:
1) if it's not about the money, then why is your question about the money?
2) is God more satisfied with us, if we have more money?
3) show me when and where, EVER, Jesus "financially believed"?
(hint: the heavens were more satisfied with the widow's mite...and I'm pretty sure that anyone and everyone involved in the WoF "movement" wouldn't want her balance sheet. In fact, they might think they would have such a balance sheet as a result of "not having enough faith"!!)
the world needs yet another WoF believer like a fish needs a bicycle. Your being a WoF believer and future teacher, also doesn't necessarily qualify you.
Thats not what financial believing is about
3 questions:
1) if it's not about the money, then why is your question about the money?
2) is God more satisfied with us, if we have more money?
3) show me when and where, EVER, Jesus "financially believed"?
(hint: the heavens were more satisfied with the widow's mite...and I'm pretty sure that anyone and everyone involved in the WoF "movement" wouldn't want her balance sheet. In fact, they might think they would have such a balance sheet as a result of "not having enough faith"!!)
the world needs yet another WoF believer like a fish needs a bicycle. Your being a WoF believer and future teacher, also doesn't necessarily qualify you.
Kenneth Hagin:
"[Man] was created on terms of equality with God, and he could stand in God's presence without any consciousness of inferiority...God made us as much like Himself as possible...He made us the same class of being that He is Himself...Man lived in the realm of God. He lived on terms equal with God...[The] believer is called Christ...That's who we are; we're Christ" (Zoe: The God-Kind of Life, 1989. pp. 35-36, 41).
Kenneth Copeland:
"God's reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself...He was not a little like God. He was not almost like God. He was not subordinate to God even" ("Following the Faith of Abraham," tape 01-3001, n.d.).
"You don't have a god in you, you are one" ("The Force of Love," tape 02-0028, 1987).
Benny Hinn:
"I am a 'little messiah' walking the earth" ("Praise-a-Thon" on TBN, November 6, 1990).
John Avanzini:
"[The Spirit of God]...declared in the earth today what the eternal purpose of God has been through the ages...that He is duplicating Himself in the earth" ("The End Time Manifestation of the Sons of God," Morris Cerullo World Evangelism tape 1).
Morris Cerullo:
"Did you know that from the beginning of time the whole purpose of God was to reproduce Himself?...And when we stand up here, brother, you're not looking at Morris Cerullo; you're looking at God. You're looking at Jesus" ("The End Time Manifestation of the Sons of God," Morris Cerullo World Evangelism tape 1).
Charles Capps:
"God duplicated Himself in kind!...Adam was an exact duplication of God's kind!" (Authority in Three Worlds, 1982. p.16).
Paul Crouch:
"I am a little god! Critics, be gone!" ("Praise the Lord" program, July 7, 1986).
The promises of power and supernatural aid to the believers are certainly numerous in the Word of God. For instance, the Bible calls Christians "partakers of the divine nature" (II Peter 1:4). However, in examining the verse's context, it becomes clear that this verse is speaking of an endowment of divine power from God to live a holy life, something no man could do without the Lord's help. Word-Faith teachers, on the other hand, twist this verse and six or eight other favorite verses to make the quantum leap to the idea that we are gods. The Bible teaches that only of Jesus Christ can it be said, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9). In fact, whereas John 1:1, 2 and 14 tell us that the Word, God Himself, became flesh, some of the Word-Faith teachers claim that Jesus the man became God, just as we can. For instance, Kenneth Hagin states, "Every man who has been born again is an incarnation and Christianity is a miracle. The believer is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth" ("The Incarnation," The Word of Faith 13, December, 1980). Incidentally, this statement was taken nearly word for word from E.W. Kenyon's The Father and His Family, 1965. pp. 97-101).One Scripture that Word-Faith teachers claim supports the idea that men are gods is Psalm 82:6: "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Conveniently, the teachers ignore the context of the verse. The Lord is rebuking the judges of Israel who held the poor of the land under their judgment as if they were gods over them. But the judges did not judge righteously. In the very next verse the Lord underlines the vast difference between Himself and the unjust judges: "But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."The Word-Faith movement is largely an outgrowth of the Kingdom Now movement.In the Word-Faith movement the normal blessing all Christians have of trusting the Lord is twisted and taken to a hyper un-Biblical extreme. Word-Faith teachers claim humans can control God by their confessions and thereby ascend to godhood."For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (II Thessalonians 2:7-12).Word-Faith or simply Faith it emphasizes speaking, stating, or confessing verses found in the Bible, called the Word of God. The belief is that if one believes the Word of God and confesses it then the believer shall receive what they confess. This act of believing and speaking is said to be described by Jesus in Mark 11:22-23.The term word of faith itself is derived from the biblical passage Romans 10:8 which speaks of "the word of faith that we preach."Healing The Word of Faith teaches that complete healing (of spirit, soul, and body) is included in Christ's atonement and therefore is available here and now to all who believe. Frequently cited is Isaiah 53:5 "by his stripes we are healed", and Matthew 8:17 which says that Jesus healed the sick so that "it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the Prophet, 'Himself took our infirmities, and bore our sicknesses'."Because Isaiah speaks in the present tense ("we are healed"), Word of Faith teaches that believers should accept the reality of a healing that is already theirs. Accepting this healing is done by confessing the verse or verses found in the Bible declaring they are healed (i.e. Word of Faith) and then believing them fully without doubt. It is not an act of denying the pain, sickness, or disease, but an act of receiving the gift mentioned in Isaiah 53:5. According to adherents, sickness is an attempt by Satan to rob believers of their divine right to total health. Prosperity Word of Faith teaching holds that God wants his people to be financially prosperous, as well as have good health, good marriages and relationships, and to live generally prosperous lives. Word of Faith teaches that God empowers his people (blesses them) to achieve the promises that are contained in the Bible. Because of this, suffering does not come from God, but rather, from Satan. As Kenneth Copeland's ministry has stated, the idea that God uses suffering for our benefit is considered to be "a deception of Satan." and "absolutely against the Word of God." Additionally, if someone is not experiencing prosperity, it is because they have given Satan authority over their lives. God is not able to do anything at all unless the person invites Him to. Some argue that Jesus and the apostles were also financially wealthy, owning homes, having monetary resources and businesses. The following arguments have been offered for this claim:
Kenneth Copeland:
"God's reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself...He was not a little like God. He was not almost like God. He was not subordinate to God even" ("Following the Faith of Abraham," tape 01-3001, n.d.).
"You don't have a god in you, you are one" ("The Force of Love," tape 02-0028, 1987).
Benny Hinn:
"I am a 'little messiah' walking the earth" ("Praise-a-Thon" on TBN, November 6, 1990).
John Avanzini:
"[The Spirit of God]...declared in the earth today what the eternal purpose of God has been through the ages...that He is duplicating Himself in the earth" ("The End Time Manifestation of the Sons of God," Morris Cerullo World Evangelism tape 1).
Morris Cerullo:
"Did you know that from the beginning of time the whole purpose of God was to reproduce Himself?...And when we stand up here, brother, you're not looking at Morris Cerullo; you're looking at God. You're looking at Jesus" ("The End Time Manifestation of the Sons of God," Morris Cerullo World Evangelism tape 1).
Charles Capps:
"God duplicated Himself in kind!...Adam was an exact duplication of God's kind!" (Authority in Three Worlds, 1982. p.16).
Paul Crouch:
"I am a little god! Critics, be gone!" ("Praise the Lord" program, July 7, 1986).
The promises of power and supernatural aid to the believers are certainly numerous in the Word of God. For instance, the Bible calls Christians "partakers of the divine nature" (II Peter 1:4). However, in examining the verse's context, it becomes clear that this verse is speaking of an endowment of divine power from God to live a holy life, something no man could do without the Lord's help. Word-Faith teachers, on the other hand, twist this verse and six or eight other favorite verses to make the quantum leap to the idea that we are gods. The Bible teaches that only of Jesus Christ can it be said, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9). In fact, whereas John 1:1, 2 and 14 tell us that the Word, God Himself, became flesh, some of the Word-Faith teachers claim that Jesus the man became God, just as we can. For instance, Kenneth Hagin states, "Every man who has been born again is an incarnation and Christianity is a miracle. The believer is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth" ("The Incarnation," The Word of Faith 13, December, 1980). Incidentally, this statement was taken nearly word for word from E.W. Kenyon's The Father and His Family, 1965. pp. 97-101).One Scripture that Word-Faith teachers claim supports the idea that men are gods is Psalm 82:6: "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Conveniently, the teachers ignore the context of the verse. The Lord is rebuking the judges of Israel who held the poor of the land under their judgment as if they were gods over them. But the judges did not judge righteously. In the very next verse the Lord underlines the vast difference between Himself and the unjust judges: "But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."The Word-Faith movement is largely an outgrowth of the Kingdom Now movement.In the Word-Faith movement the normal blessing all Christians have of trusting the Lord is twisted and taken to a hyper un-Biblical extreme. Word-Faith teachers claim humans can control God by their confessions and thereby ascend to godhood."For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (II Thessalonians 2:7-12).Word-Faith or simply Faith it emphasizes speaking, stating, or confessing verses found in the Bible, called the Word of God. The belief is that if one believes the Word of God and confesses it then the believer shall receive what they confess. This act of believing and speaking is said to be described by Jesus in Mark 11:22-23.The term word of faith itself is derived from the biblical passage Romans 10:8 which speaks of "the word of faith that we preach."Healing The Word of Faith teaches that complete healing (of spirit, soul, and body) is included in Christ's atonement and therefore is available here and now to all who believe. Frequently cited is Isaiah 53:5 "by his stripes we are healed", and Matthew 8:17 which says that Jesus healed the sick so that "it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the Prophet, 'Himself took our infirmities, and bore our sicknesses'."Because Isaiah speaks in the present tense ("we are healed"), Word of Faith teaches that believers should accept the reality of a healing that is already theirs. Accepting this healing is done by confessing the verse or verses found in the Bible declaring they are healed (i.e. Word of Faith) and then believing them fully without doubt. It is not an act of denying the pain, sickness, or disease, but an act of receiving the gift mentioned in Isaiah 53:5. According to adherents, sickness is an attempt by Satan to rob believers of their divine right to total health. Prosperity Word of Faith teaching holds that God wants his people to be financially prosperous, as well as have good health, good marriages and relationships, and to live generally prosperous lives. Word of Faith teaches that God empowers his people (blesses them) to achieve the promises that are contained in the Bible. Because of this, suffering does not come from God, but rather, from Satan. As Kenneth Copeland's ministry has stated, the idea that God uses suffering for our benefit is considered to be "a deception of Satan." and "absolutely against the Word of God." Additionally, if someone is not experiencing prosperity, it is because they have given Satan authority over their lives. God is not able to do anything at all unless the person invites Him to. Some argue that Jesus and the apostles were also financially wealthy, owning homes, having monetary resources and businesses. The following arguments have been offered for this claim:
- Jesus' ability to travel without apparently working to earn a living for three years
- Jesus and the apostles references to owning homes Jesus had a treasurer (Judas Iscariot) Jesus consorting with the upper echelons of society
- The businesses that each of the apostles apparently owned/worked in . Based on the concept that Jesus and His apostles were arguably wealthy, as well as the historical examples of His people having great wealth, and the promises for financial prosperity throughout the Old and New Testaments, Word of Faith proponents teach that modern believers also have access to the "blessing" and may also become financially wealthy. Teachers like Kenneth Copeland assert the Prosperity Gospel is validated by the teachings of the Apostle John: "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth" (3 John 2). Copeland posits that “as the seeds of prosperity are planted in your mind, in your will and in your emotions...they eventually produce a great financial harvest." Faith and confession Within the Word of Faith teaching, a central element of receiving from God involves "confession". This doctrine is often referred to as "positive confession" or "faith confession" by practitioners, and "name it and claim it" or "blab it and grab it" by detractors. Word of Faith teachers, such as Kenneth E. Hagin and Charles Capps, have argued that God created the universe simply by speaking it into existence (Genesis 1), and that humans have been endowed with the ability (power) to speak things into existence. Thus, making a "positive confession" (by reciting a promise of scripture, for example), and believing that which one says, generates power which enables those things to come into fruition. This teaching is interpreted from Mark 11:22-23. Word of Faith preachers have likened faith to a "force".Likewise, according to Word of Faith teaching, "negative confession" can yield negative results, and hence believers should be conscious of their words. This is argued on the interpretation of Proverbs 18:21, "Life and death are in the power of the tongue, and they that love them will eat the fruit thereof", also Numbers 14:28,"...saith the Lord, as you have spoken in my ears, so will I do", among other scriptures.
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Thiscrosshurts
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I was a WoF follower in the early 90's.
Technically much of what they teach is truth
But there are added ingredients and hooks in their milk.
It is ambulance chasing and God is the insurance company and they want you to be the injured driver with an undetectable neck injury.
I would agree with s.i.e. about the widows mite but I think they would tell her to give it to pastor as seed faith money.
Are they the only guilty one's?
The baptists I went to used to pull out Malachi toward the end of every month(ye have robbed God).Once an organization is created it must feed itself and try to preserve.Most these once started with pure motives.
Can you trust anyone who has to pay a mortgage?
Technically much of what they teach is truth
But there are added ingredients and hooks in their milk.
It is ambulance chasing and God is the insurance company and they want you to be the injured driver with an undetectable neck injury.
I would agree with s.i.e. about the widows mite but I think they would tell her to give it to pastor as seed faith money.
Are they the only guilty one's?
The baptists I went to used to pull out Malachi toward the end of every month(ye have robbed God).Once an organization is created it must feed itself and try to preserve.Most these once started with pure motives.
Can you trust anyone who has to pay a mortgage?
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I actually disagree with Dollar so I don't listen to him...however I think you should watch what you say your last sentence almost makes it look like your saying your more spiritually mature than I am and I am a WoF believer and future teacher. And that just isn't your place to say
What are you studying to teach?
