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Does God use the stars to speak to us?

Discussion in 'Bible Chat' started by Yellajacket, Feb 6, 2013.

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  1. I have always been told that astrology was wrong, and still believe that; at least the type of astrology that is so popular today. However, was 'the reading of the stars' a good, holy or acceptable thing at one time? I think yes. Has it been twisted by Satan as he has done with so many things? I think yes. I do not believe in horoscopes. I do not believe in looking to the stars for answers to life; answers come from the Bible or his Spirit. But in the defense of astrology, Genesis 1:14 clearly states that stars are used as "signs". In Luke 21:25 Jesus says that the celestial bodies will be used as signs. The 'star of Bethlehem that lead the wise men to Jesus was not evil but of divine origin. If these 'wise men' were not already accustomed to 'reading the stars' for signs, then why didn't flocks of people follow this 'star sign'? Why only these select few? I believe because they were experts in reading the stars and saw the meaning of a particular alignment that 'pointed' to a specific region. This is a mystery to us today because we have lost the knowledge that these men apparently used on a daily basis. The reading of signs in the stars, I believe, has been perverted by Satan, Greek mythology and occultists. In our Christmas stories the star of Bethlehem is presented as a floating bright star that moves ahead of these 3 wise men guiding them to Bethlehem. Again, lets be realistic about this. If there were actually a floating star moving across the sky and then stopping or hovering over Bethlehem, wouldn't this get the attention of CNN and the mass population? Sure it would. But it just couldn't have happened like that. Logic would dictate that what did happen must have been obscure except to these few men trained in this type of knowledge. But this area of knowledge is resisted and even attacked by most Christians because of tradition and known perversions of the study of stars and the order and messages found in them. (Even now, most Christians reading this have hair on the back of their necks raising and red flags and sirens going off in their minds) A good example of this is how even our planets are named after Greek gods. It's like, if I said I want the legalization of hemp to be reinstated and all bans lifted, most citizens, especially Christians, are going to assume that I smoke marijuana. But the truth is marijuana is only a strand of hemp that can be used in evil ways but normal hemp, the kind that Columbus' sails were made from, was not toxic or intoxicating. It was a very strong material similar to cotton used in making very useful materials. Hemp was used in making the first Model T cars. Woven hemp is actually cheaper and stronger than steel. Hemp is not evil, but there are perversions in it's use that are evil. It comes down to this: The Bible says (God said) that stars are to be used as signs. Jesus said it in Luke himself. Then why are we rejecting this knowledge and the study of stars? Has the truth and holy knowledge written in the stars been so totally lost that all we have left is the perversion of Greek mythology and horoscopes? Most Christians believe that when the signs in the heavens take place in the last days it is going to be on CNN. That's not the way it happened at the birth of Christ so why should we expect that it would be any different at His second coming? I don't want to miss these signs in the heavens that are prophesied but before I can even find the knowledge (that is pure and holy and Godly) of reading the stars, I have to filter through tradition, fear and misinformation. Is there any knowledge left on star reading that is still pure? If so who has this knowledge? If I had to guess, I would say there are Jewish Rabbis in Israel that have this knowledge but who knows. I remember years ago someone teaching that there was an astrological sign during the time of Christs birth where the "King's Star" lined up a particular way to announce the birth of a king but I don't know more than that.
  2. I don't think so. I take the Genesis reference to the stars as signs to mean navigation.

    Astrologers get a uniformly bad press in the Old Testament. See Isaiah 47

    “Keep on, then, with your magic spells
    and with your many sorceries,
    which you have labored at since childhood.
    Perhaps you will succeed,
    perhaps you will cause terror.
    13 All the counsel you have received has only worn you out!
    Let your astrologers come forward,
    those stargazers who make predictions month by month,
    let them save you from what is coming upon you.
    14 Surely they are like stubble;
    the fire will burn them up.
    They cannot even save themselves
    from the power of the flame.

    Matthew's references to Astrologers in the nativity story are steeped in irony: Herod, the priests and scribes knew and understood all the prophecies concerning the messiah, yet did not respond. The Magi read the stars (horror!) and responded to this slightest piece of revelation by taking a long journey to offer gifts and to worship. It's a "the first shall be last" kind of a story, and sets the scene for judgement of Jerusalem and for the gospel to the whole gentile world.

    I am not too confident about exactly what Jesus means in Luke 21, but it would be going against the weight of the rest of the Bible to take it as an encouragement to take up astrology. We have a better means of revelation - Jesus Christ himself.
  3. Why would anyone look to the stars for answers when we can talk directly to he one who made all of the stars?

    Gen 1:16; Psa 147:4; Isa 40:26

    The Bible warns against astrology.

    Isa 47:11-15
  4. The star proclaimed the path to place where our Lord was born.
  5. The stars were used for navigational purposes back in biblical times.

    As for using stars (astrology) for "answers", this is evil and forbidden in the bible.

    quote from article

  6. I completely agree that looking to the stars (created) for answers or guidance rather than seeking God (creator) would be wrong. I believe it falls under the category of "worshiping the created over the creator". Romans 1:25
    I am not condoning this sin nor am I justifying it. I do not want to study astrology in that way or find truth in the stars. I'm not saying any of that. Does the configuration of the stars have some effect on my daily life? I do not believe that at all. That is astrology. But does the position of the Sun and the moon effect life on earth. They absolutely do. That's science.

    But the Bible states that the heavens reveal His glory and that doesn't just mean it's beautiful. I'm saying that God's creation shows his glory and is used to show us things about God. God speaks to us through creation. He reveals Himself through his handiwork. If we ignore that then how much are we missing of what God is saying to us? Through God's creations we see types and shadows of who He is. That is the order of the universe, to bring Him glory, to describe Him, the represent Him in a natural form.

    But your response is exactly what I'm talking about. Astrology and divination have stolen God's glory in the stars. Even though God clearly stated that stars would be used as signs, we close our eyes to it because Satan has twisted it into something evil. Astrology is evil. But the stars are not evil. There is order there. God's glory can be seen there. "All creation speaks of His glory."

    Let's take the sun and the moon for example. Is the sun a god? No. But the Egyptians believed it was. They named this God Ra. The moon is not evil but what can we learn from these two that brings glory to our maker? What does the Bible refer to when it says "the sun will be darkened and the moon turned to blood..." I believe the sun in this passage represents the glory of God and the moon is the church because the moon reflects the light (or glory) of God. So I would deduce that there is coming a time in the last days when the gospel and maybe even religion will be suppressed and the church will come under great persecution (blood).

    Joseph was given a dream where 11 stars bowed down to his star. God used stars to represent men in this reference. Jacob did not banish Joseph for being a diviner. Jacob immediately knew the interpretation of the dream because (apparently) they were accustomed to God speaking to them using types and shadows of his creation; such as the wheat bowing down.

    There is order and design in everything he created including the stars. Jesus is referred to repeatedly as the Morning Star. What is it about the morning star that is a type of Christ? Well, the morning Star (Venus) signifies the coming dawn; light is coming. It 'brings in' or 'ushers in' the dawn. Revelation 22:16 Jesus refers to Himself as the Morning Star. It's not that He is teaching us divination but uses creation as types and symbols for His glory, specifically the glory of Christ. In the Bible stars refer to Christ, Satan, men and angels. "The stars fell from the sky" may either mean fallen angels or spiritual leaders falling or prominent leaders falling from authority.

    What would an eclipse mean? Jesus said in his time on earth that the Jewish religious leaders were imposing rules on the people that they themselves couldn't keep. They raised themselves up, their piety, above the truth and replaced God with ritual. The church standing in front of the God.

    So do you guys the difference in astrology and what I'm talking about?

    I don't know who the wise men were or how they understood this sign or followed the star but here is one viewpoint. In 1600, Johannes Kepler hypothesized that this star was actually a conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn. Confirmed by modern astrology, this symbolism ties in with the prophecies of that era concerning a Messiah amongst the Jews. The conjunctions occurred at the end of Pisces, ruled by Jupiter. Jupiter is the planet of kings. Saturn is the planet that rules the Jews, thereby giving the king of the Jews. This was a very infrequent triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn and it occurred in the year 7 B.C.

    According to Flavius Josephus, the Jewish historian, the Jewish temple at Jerusalem had the twelve signs of the zodiac inlaid in its floor. Josephus also stated that the twelve loaves of show bread in the temple was a reference to the zodiac. In modern times, Israel issued stamps with the zodiac signs identified with the twelve tribes of Israel and the astrological symbolism of the temple. The Jews placed the tribes in the 12 categories. The Greeks labeled them differently. What if we placed the Disciples in the 12 categories? That would be pretty messed up but the concept is the same. They transposed their own meaning to the 12 measurements of 'star time'. We measure our days and seasons by a star; the sun. It's just how we measure time. Light dictates time. The zodiac also measures time by ages. Ages are referred to in the Bible a few times, even by Jesus. Ages are large increments of time, about 2000 years. The first age included everything up to Noah. The second age included everything up to Jesus (Aries, the Ram or the Lamb) The third age includes everything up to right about now (Pisces, The Fish). At the end of one age, or beginning of another a mighty historical event takes place. We are on the verge of another tremendous event. Math 24:3 Jesus did not rebuke the disciple for his question accusing him of being an astrologer. He simply answered his question. It was understood that signs accompany the turning of an age.

    Sunday means Sun Day. Monday means Moon Day. Thursday means Thor's Day. Saturday is Saturn Day. It doesn't make them wrong, it's pagan labeling. Jesus knew the increment of time called an age. The pagan's have twisted it and abused it and replaced God with it. But if understood properly it can shed light on some of the Bible, such as Jesus' reference to the age. Maybe you didn't know he meant about 2000 years.
    Luke 18:29-30
    1 Cor. 10:11
    Eph. 1:21
    Heb. 9:26
    Rev. 15:3

    Look at what God said to Job: "Can you bring forth the Mazzaroth (the zodiac) in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs? (an astrological constellation)" (Job 38:32)

    I know it sounds like I'm supporting the zodiac but I'm not. What I'm saying is, it's all over the Bible. There is something good and holy about it. And there is something twisted about it. I'm saying we don't want to throw out all of it just because the pagans have twisted it into something it should never have been. I'm saying there is a part of what God is saying to us that we are missing if we are afraid to sift through the disinformation and paganism. Here is a great example: The sun. The sun could represent Christ in that we (earth) revolve around it and draw life from it and without it there would be no light and no life. Now the pagans would take that concept and twist into: The sun IS god and we should name it Ra and we should pray to it and worship it. See the difference? There is something beautiful about God's glory in the stars and we are missing it because Satan has perverted it. Say what you will be you cannot argue with the fact that the greatest moment in history (the birth of Christ) God himself used a message in the stars to bring glory to Jesus with the 'wise men'. Is God evil for doing this? Or for discussing it with Job? To completely reject signs in the heavens is to completely reject a part of God. Satan has owned this territory for far too long and I would like to see God take his glory back. The Bible said clearly that the celestial bodies are to be used for SIGNS, appointed times (holidays or festivals), days and years. Not signs like the pagans use it but signs none the less. In my opinion, to limit the stars to only navigational purposes is a little short sighted.
  7. I find this thread to be very interesting.

    I know a little bit about astronomy and I have seen a blood red moon (sept 1996), but I think there needs to be made clear the distinction between Astronomy and Astrology. One is the study of the heavens, the other is what Chad said in his post above. Astronomy is cool. Astrology is wicked.

    Back in September of 1996 there was a total eclipse of the moon. There was a block party in my neighborhood and several folks had brought out their telescopes etc and as the time approached for the eclipse and we ooo'ed and ahh'ed as the earth's shadow began to cover the moon. But then clouds rolled in and before totality the clouds had blanketed the sky and everybody (but me) left and went inside their homes. I can be quite tenacious and I stayed out. Then for a few moments the clouds broke and there it was, the moon hanging in the sky like a ball. It was dark red and looked awesome! I ran in my house and got my husband and he came out and saw it too.

    It was explained to me later by an astronomer at Fernbank science center that the reason the moon appeared red is because of our dirty air. I live in Atlanta and because of the pollution, the moon wasn't red but only appeared red because of the nastiness in our atmosphere.
  8. If you want to watch an interesting youtube video on the subject, search "Chuck Missler on Signs in the Heavens and The Hebrew Mazzaroth and the Stars" on youtube.
  9. I just watched the Missler video Strypes and found it very interesting. This is exactly what I was talking about. Thankyou!
  10. There is a very good book out there you may want to read. Unfortunately you can only find an abridged version unless you are very fortunate (word used loosely) indeed.
    It's called "The Gospel in the Stars" As one of you pointed out...For every good thing God has given us, Satan has a foul counterfeit. I suggest you find the book and read it.
  11. Russian meteor a sign from God? As fate would have it this meteor event occurred as I was investigating how God uses celestial bodies to give messages to man. When the event occurred I asked God if this meant something. He said, "Russia hear me!" It was then I sensed that this event is similar to God "knocking on Russia's door" to invite them to meet Jesus. It is the beginning of a new move of God in Russia; a season for the gospel to be preached full force. God is speaking to Russia and it is her time to answer the call. I looked up the Ural Mountains where the meteor fell to find the meanings and origins of the name. It means simply rock. I was reminded that Jesus is the Rock, the chief cornerstone. There is a legend attached to the mountains about a man who heroically sacrificed his own life to save his people.
  12. *Edit to tag Chad in my post
  13. God knows how to speak to the hearts of mankind individually and sometimes many listen when they have witnessed the power of His creation. I hope the people of Russia (and all who take note of this cosmic event) take this opportunity to seek Him and realize His magnificent power and love.

    Here are a couple of scriptures that are about signs and the heavens.

    Genesis 1:14 ESV
    And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years,

    Jeremiah 10:2 ESV
    Thus says the LORD: "Learn not the way of the nations, nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens because the nations are dismayed at them,

    Acts 2:19 ESV
    And I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke;
  14. #14 jeremiah1five, Feb 19, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
    There is no doubt God has placed His Word in the stars.

    Psalm 147:4
    4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.

    Adam names the animals. God named the stars. Names have meaning. One star has name and meaning. A group of stars (constellation) is a sentence. The Prophecies of the Lord Jesus Christ has been written in the stars. Virgo, the virgin birth. Cepheus, the King. Leo, the Lion from the tribe of Judah, Aries, the ram, Scorpio, death at the heel, Draco, the dragon; and there is an altar constellation, a Southern Cross, and more. The Second Coming is prophesied in the stars. The knowledge was taught to Adam from God. Adam taught Seth, all the way to Noah where this knowledge ceased in oral tradition. The prophecies of the stars had allowed Enoch to declare the Second Coming of the Lord even before the First.

    Jude 1:14
    14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

    Astronomy and astrology are distinct. Astrology is a corruption of the Gospel in the Stars. It finds its origin here:

    Genesis 11:4
    4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

    The words "may reach" are not in the original. It was not a tower whose tower was to transcend the atmosphere like some of the taller buildings in existence today. It was that they were attempting to place their own version of the constellations in the sky on the ceiling of their tower. It was a tower whose top (ceiling was made like) unto heaven. The true prophecies were of Christ, the corrupt version was about Nimrod.

    God's Word (in the stars) shall endure forever. Man cannot touch it. He cannot corrupt it. It is beyond his reach. And this knowledge "lost" in Noah's generation is coming back again. Before the Lord's return both the "Star Bible" and Noah's Ark shall be "found."

    At You Tube.
    Talonman007 posted videos on the "Real Star of Bethlehem" by Rick Larson.
    You will find his discoveries in parts. Take them one at a time and give God the glory!

    The heavens do declare the glory of God! (Ps. 19).
    Preacherskid likes this.
  15. So relieved to see these questions posed by Yellowjacket, I have these same thoughts and questions. The challenge for me is when mainstream Christian answers fail to address these questions adequately, it raises questions for me about my faith. Like what is God's design with astronomy? as yellowjacket explained: not as psychic but His signs, glory and revelation.) The "fruit" I see from believers is so hateful, judgmental, prideful, harsh and inauthentic. How can people who follow God exude behavior more destructive than "the world". I wish we could have more open and honest, kind dialogue to answer these probing questions. I want a renewed relationship with God but I'm struggling.

    It might seem like I'm addressing two different things astronomy/astrology and hypocrisy in Christianity but I hope someone can understand how they connect for me. I can't ignore inconsistencies any longer and it's an obstacle to my relationship with God.
    Sent from a mobile device
    amadeus2 likes this.
  16. Give God the glory for your understanding of what it is to really be like Jesus as opposed to standing rather on a label [Christian] while spouting too much of one's own old ways as if they were God's Way. If you continue to look to Him and seek His face, He will not ignore you:

    "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" Matt 7:7
  17. Thank you for the encouragement.
    Sent from a mobile device
  18. Thank you for the encouragement.
    Sent from a mobile device
  19. Give God the glory, for who else is good? [see Matt 19:17]
  20. First welcome to Talk Jesus Preacherskid!
    Always a blessing to welcome another Sister in Christ Jesus to this online Christian Community.

    What an area to start posting with! :)
    Brother Amadeus spoke it rightly in says "If you continue to look to Him and seek His face, He will not ignore you:"

    Yet, always remember that the Word of God found in Scripture was given to man for a reason. Utilize it. You have the perfect teacher within you, in the Holy Spirit. Who will guide you and reveal much to you in it!

    Once again be welcome to Talk Jesus!
    With the Love of Christ Jesus.

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