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Do You Know Him?

Discussion in 'Bible Chat' started by Sue J Love, Mar 12, 2016.

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  1. Saturday, March 12, 2016, 7:25 p.m. – The Lord Jesus put in mind the song, “Servant of The Lord.” Speak, Lord, your words to my heart. I read John 5:30-47 (ESV).

    The Testimony (vv. 30-37a)

    “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. If I alone bear witness about myself, my testimony is not true. There is another who bears witness about me, and I know that the testimony that he bears about me is true. You sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. Not that the testimony that I receive is from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved. He was a burning and shining lamp, and you were willing to rejoice for a while in his light. But the testimony that I have is greater than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to accomplish, the very works that I am doing, bear witness about me that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me.

    Jesus had just finished talking about how he could do nothing without the Father, and that what the Father did, the Son did also. Jesus did not operate on his own. He was completely in submission to the Father, and he obeyed him in all things, even though he himself was God – fully God, yet fully man, our creator and giver of life. He did not seek his own will, but the will of God the Father, who is the one who had sent him to the earth to become our sacrificial Lamb to take away the sins of the world.

    Now, he said that he also did not testify alone about himself, i.e. that he is the Christ, the promised Messiah, of whom Moses and the Prophets spoke, and this was because his testimony alone would not be sufficient evidence to hold up in a court of law. Yet, he did not testify alone, because John the Baptist, the works the Father had given Jesus to do, the Father himself, the Scriptures, and Moses and the Prophets all bore witness about Jesus, that he is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, the only true God, the second person of our triune God – Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and that he was sent by the Father. And, their testimonies did not originate with man, either, but with God the Father.

    The relationship Jesus Christ had/has with the Father is a model for us, Christ’s followers, as to what our relationship with Jesus should look like, and how it should operate, not in the flesh of humankind, but of the Spirit of God. Jesus told his disciples, “I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing” (Jn. 15:5). So, just as Jesus could do nothing of his own accord, but only what he saw his Father doing, so we can do nothing of eternal value, and for the advancement of the kingdom of heaven, apart from our abiding in Jesus Christ, and apart from the empowerment of his Spirit living within us. If we try to serve God in our own flesh, seeking our own will, instead of the will of God in what we do, it will profit us nothing.

    God is not interested in what we are willing to sacrifice for him, or what areas of ministry we have decided we are willing to fill. He wants us to be, with Jesus, like Jesus was/is with the Father. It is his will for us that we should be crucified with Christ in death to sin, and resurrected with Christ in newness of life, “created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness” (Eph. 4:24). It is his will that we should no longer live for ourselves, but for him who gave his life for us on a cross. It is also God’s will for our lives that we should be surrendered to Christ, submitted to his Lordship over our lives, obedient to his teachings, and that we should not seek our own will for our lives, but the will of God/Jesus Christ.

    As well, our testimonies about Jesus Christ should not be based in human reasoning or understanding, but they should be founded in the Word of God, and in the witness of the Holy Spirit in our hearts. We must make sure, as much as is possible, that what we give testimony to is in agreement with Scripture, and not something man made up. When we share Christ with others, it should be in the power and working of the Holy Spirit within us, as we pray for the Lord to guide our words and to give us the words to speak. When we share Christ and his Word, it should also not be for the purpose to glorify our own flesh, but to bring praise, honor and glory to God alone. And, our actions, i.e. how we live our lives, should bear witness to the reality of our relationship with Jesus Christ of which we speak.

    How Will You Believe? (vv. 37b-47)

    “His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen, and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe the one whom he has sent. You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. I do not receive glory from people. But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

    From infanthood I was brought up attending weekly meetings of the church, and I heard the Word of God taught and the gospel of Jesus Christ explained. In my youth I had a pastor who dearly loved the Lord, and who taught us how to study the scriptures, and how to live holy lives, pleasing to God. I was blessed beyond measure with knowledge and understanding of the scriptures, and with a pastor who was a man of God, a man of his word, a man of integrity, and one who walked the talk instead of just talking the walk. I had several godly mentors who taught me how to spend time with my Lord each day in his Word, listening to him speak his words to my heart, and who taught me obedience to Christ, as my love response to him because of all that he did for me. In other words, they taught me how to love Jesus with all my heart.

    Yet, having all that knowledge and teaching was not enough. I had to personally accept God’s invitation to his great salvation. I had to personally yield control of my life over to him, repent of my sins, and trust him with my life. It was the Father who drew me to Jesus, and it was the Holy Spirit who convicted my heart of sin. It was the gift of God and his grace that gave me the desire and the ability to believe in Jesus and to repent of my sins, and it was the working of the Holy Spirit in my heart that transformed me from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that I could receive forgiveness of sins. Yet, I am not a puppet, and God is not a puppet master. I had to willingly yield to his Lordship, and willfully cooperate with the working of God’s grace in my heart. I had to turn to God and to his righteousness and away from my sin, empowered by the Spirit, yes, and only because of Jesus’ sacrifice for my sins, but nonetheless I had to make that choice to follow Jesus with my life or to reject him.

    There are many people who profess to know Jesus Christ but it is head knowledge only. They know the scriptures. Many of them were brought up attending meetings of the church. Some of them even have Bible college degrees (diplomas). Yet, they don’t really believe in Jesus, because they have never trusted him with their lives. They are still holding on to their old lives of living for sin and self. They are still trying to run their own lives, and they operate fully in the flesh. They have never surrendered their lives to Christ, though, and they never did submit themselves to the cross in dying with Christ to their sin, and in being resurrected with Christ to live to righteousness. They never truly came to Jesus, in other words, but in form or in profession only. Thus, they do not have the love of God within them, because they never truly received Jesus into their lives to save them from slavery to sin in order that they might live with Christ in the Spirit and walk in his holiness.

    They are followers of man instead of followers of God. Even though they say they believe the scriptures and that they believe in Jesus, they do not follow them. Their lifestyles do not bear testimony to the profession of their faith, that they have been born again of the Spirit of God, and that they are united with Christ, and that they have eternal life with God. Belief in Jesus is not head knowledge, nor is it an emotional response to an alluring message which promises an escape from hell and the hope of heaven when we die, but does not teach that faith in Jesus means dying to sin and living to righteousness. True belief in Jesus Christ means trusting him with our lives, and submitting to his Lordship, and allowing him to transform our hearts and to make us new creations in Christ Jesus. Will you trust him to be your Lord (owner/master) today, and will you become his servant?

    Servant of the Lord / An Original Work
    Based off Romans 1:1-17 / July 26, 2012

    Servant of the Lord;
    For the gospel you’re set apart.
    Promised through the prophets of old:
    Jesus, Son of God.
    Through Him, and for His name alone,
    We receive His grace
    To call people, Him to obey;
    Coming from their faith.

    You belong to Christ;
    Loved by God, and called to be saints;
    Serving God with whole heart and mind;
    Preaching Jesus Christ;
    Always praying for others’ needs;
    Helping hand to lend;
    Giving courage to others’ faith,
    For the praise of God.

    Servant of the Lord;
    Of the gospel, I’m not ashamed;
    For salvation, power of God
    To those who have faith.
    In the gospel find righteousness:
    Being right with God.
    Turn from sin, and trust Jesus Christ.
    By faith, live in Him.

     
  2. Probably one of the most under-rated aspects of Christianity in my opinion.
    Many say they "know Him" simply because they believe in Him.

    Yet even the demons believe in Him. (Jas 2:19; ) - but do they "know" Him?
    It seems the people in Matt 7:21-23; believed in Him... but Jesus says "I never knew you".
    In Matt 25:11-12; five virgins weren't there when the Master opens the door, later they return
    but Jesus says "I do not know you". Apparently they also believed in Him they were waiting
    for Him to invite them into the wedding feast, and thought that He would.

    There are a few verses that say if we do this... we know Him. If we don't do this... we don't know Him.
    What is the difference between simply believing in Him... and knowing Him?
     
    Jesus_is_LORD likes this.
  3. That's deep. That has many layers to it. Well said.
    So true, so true.

    Can I trouble you to say more?(Believing vs Knowing)
    It's not that I don't understand but I'm sure I will be blessed hearing you expand upon it.
     
  4. Oh I'm sorry, I missed that at the bottom you also ask the same question.

    Well if I were to answer I would say this.

    I think believing relates more to recognizing or acknowledging Jesus. Where as knowing Him
    deals with having a relationship with Jesus.

    So to believe in someone you don't really have to know them. I can say I believe in my politicians and
    have confidence in their leadership but do I really know them?

    Knowing also has to do with a state of reciprocity. To know, both parties having to be engaged in the process.
    I can believe in Barrack Obama as my president but President Obama may have no clue who I am because
    I have not had a personal relationship with Him. Therefore for me to believe in President Obama something
    is only required of me (not Him). But for me to say I know Him, something is required of the both of us. For me
    to know Him he has to know me as well.

    Knowing as I stated relates to relationship. A lot of people believe in God because they have heard about him
    or read about Him in the Bible, but this head knowledge has not translated to the heart in which they acquire
    a relationship with the actual Jesus of the Bible. As John 5:39 reads, "You study the Scriptures diligently because
    you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,"

    To get to know someone, anyone it requires spending time with them. The same is with Jesus. We must spend
    time with Jesus to get to know Him. Quality time. I can go to a library and read all the books on George Washington
    the first president I want, but if I didn't live when He lived and actually walked and talked with Him, I cannot truly
    say I knew him, because I never had a relationship with him. And remember knowing is two ways(He must know me
    as well for me to know him).

    That same is with Jesus. Some of us don't allow Jesus the opportunity to get to know us. Obviously this sounds odd,
    because God knows everything about us, as Luke 12:7 says, "Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
    Don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." But the point of God knowing us means that we are walking in His WILL. This is why when Jesus said that he will tell some that He never knew them, the reason He give was, ""Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." - Matthew 7:21. When Jesus says I don't know them He means that these persons were not walking in His WILL, which brings us closer into an intimate relationship with God. How can we say we Know Jesus if we are not even doing what He wants us to do(His WILL) but walking in darkness. How can we say we know the light when we are in darkness all the time?.

    Sometimes we say we have accepted Jesus as our
    savior but we don't dethrone self. We still hold on to making aspects of our lives and choose what we will delegate
    Jesus to have control over. Like I have friends that will say, well I don't talk about Jesus as work, and I think to myself(what my pastor said),
    "He(Jesus) is NOT LORD at ALL unless He is LORD of all." Meaning you cannot truly call Him LORD if you don't allow Him
    to sit on the throne. Get to know His WILL for your relationships, don't just believe He can heal them. Get to know His WILL
    for your finances don't just believe He can bless them. Get to know His WILL for your career, don't just believe that He can
    guide you in that area.

    When we walk in the WILL of God, The will of God is for us to believe in the one who He has sent, and abide in His love
    so we will bear much Fruit. We do this through studying the WORD, but also through serving others, and staying away
    from sin which quenches the Holy Spirit in us.

    Believing is one way, but to know someone you both have to be in a relationship
     
    Amby and B-A-C like this.
  5. Knowing Jesus/God

    Luke 22:34; Jesus tells Peter "Three times you will deny that you know me".
    John 1:48; Nathanial asks Jesus "How do you know me".

    John 4:25; the Samaritan woman at the well, knows the Messiah is coming...
    but she doesn't realize that she is talking to Him. Even after He drops a few
    hints, she only thinks He is a prophet

    This is similar to the Jews in John 7:26-28; The rulers and Pharisee's did
    not know that this was the Christ. We know where this guy comes from, so He couldn't
    possibly be the Christ. -- Jesus says, "You both know me, and you know where I come from".
    (But apprently you still don't know who I am)

    Even the Father testifies about Jesus. -- John 8:18;
    John 8:19; they ask Jesus where is your Father? (I am thinking they are asking about Joseph)
    But Jesus says "You don't know me or my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father.

    This is similar to John 14:6-10;
    Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father... except
    by me. The destination isn't Jesus. The destination is the Father.
    If you had known Me, you would have known my Father also.

    Philip then aks Jesus "Just show us the Father, and that's enough for us".
    Jesus replies... if you know me, you know the Father.


    John 10:14; I know my sheep, and my sheep know me.

    In 1 Jn 2:13-14; it says I am writing to you spiritual fathers; because you know Him.

    Matt 25:12; Jesus tell the five foolish virgins... I do not know you.

    In Mark 1:24; the demons tell Jesus "we know who you are". ( Luke 4:34; )

    In Luke 13; we see the parable of the narrow door. It says once Jesus shuts the
    door, some will stand outside saying "Lord, open up for us". and He will answer,
    I do not know where you are from.

    They will then say.. didn't we eat and drink in your presence? Didn't we listen
    to your teachings? And Jesus will say.. Depart from me you evil people. I don't
    know here you are from
    .

    In John 5:42; Jesus tells the Pharisee's "but I know you, you do not have the love of God
    in yourselves".

    Again in John 14:4-9; Jesus says if you had known me, you would have known the Father.

    In John 15:21; warns His followers that bad things can happen to them "because they do not
    know the One who sent Me
    . (the Father).

    In Hebrews 8; It says Behold I am making a new covenant, so we are talking about
    the new covenant here.
    It says "I will put my laws into their minds, and I will write my laws
    upon their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    The next verse says "We don't have to teach everyone how to "Know the Lord,
    Because everyone of these people (who has my laws in their minds, and written
    on their hearts) will already know Me.

    In Hebrews 8:11; The writer is quoting from Jeremiah 31:27-34; It's talking about God making
    a new covenant with "His people". ( Jer 31:31; ) not like the covenant He made with their fathers.

    It says "I will put my law within them, and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they
    will be my people. They will not need to teach their brother or neighbors about me, because they
    will all know Me
    . (from the greatest of them, to the least of them)

    They will all know me. Those who are His people. Those who have his law written within them on
    their hearts. What if we don't have His law written upon our hearts? Can we still claim to know
    Him?

    Finally in 1st John 2 it says...
    "By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments".
    If we say we know Him, but do not keep His commandments, we are a liar, the truth is not in us.

    Can we know Jesus if we don't keep the commandments?
    Can we know God if we don't have His laws written upon our hearts?

    Or... will we be one of those people in Matt 7:21-23; ? We believe He is Lord, we even did
    miracles in His name... but He will say He never knew us.

    Will we be like one of the five foolish virgins... "I do not know you".

    Will we be like one of those trying to enter through the narrow door after it has been shut?
    "I don't even know where you are from".

    It seems KNOWING Jesus is important. Not just knowing about Him. But really knowing Him
    on a personal level. Not only knowing what His title is... but knowing His heart.
     
    Amby and Jesus_is_LORD like this.
  6. I have been a fan of John MacArthur through the years. However some of His newer teachings are starting
    to concern me.

    http://www.gty.org/resources/articles/A276/the-distinguishing-mark-of-christianity

    So do we really have to be a slave? Or can we really be friends with Jesus?
    Do we just need to obey Him unquestioningly, or do we need to know Him.

    In John 15:15; Jesus says we don't have to be slaves. "I have called you friends".

    Galatians 4:5-7; Paul says... Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son;...

    I can understand where some of this is coming from.

    This is borderline heresy to some. To say that I have to reciprocate.. is to say that something is required from me.
    To say that "something is required of the both of us". Is to say Jesus doesn't do it all... and it's heresy to these
    people to think that anything is required of us.

    Because if any part of it depends on me... there's a chance it can fall apart. If there's a chance any of it can
    fall apart... then OSAS is wrong.
     
  7. Thanks for the Bible verses. To reply to your quote, this is what I believe based on listening to many many
    pastors on both side speak.

    I think their fear is that if we talk about reciprocity, we are preaching a message of salvation by works and not
    grace through faith(In Jesus). I do agree with them that Jesus did it 100%. I agree that we do not have to add anything
    to His Work

    But I do feel that our response (reciprocity) is evidence that we have accepted him, it is not something that saves us.
    Our Love for Jesus(keep my commandments) doesn't save us, but our desire to keep them is evidence that we have
    been saved.

    So I feel comfortable speaking about reciprocity, while believing Jesus did it all, not because my love for Jesus saves me(it doesn't)
    but, because my Love for Him is a natural response and the evidence that one would logically expect if I have been saved and truly encountered(received) His Love for me.
     
  8. So then, it is cause and effect.
    I don't necessarily have to love Jesus? ...or possibly even have to "know" Him (on a personal level).

    Some would "the evidence" (that one would logically expect,)is based on works.
    Apparently Universalists and Antimonianists don't expect this to happen.

    It almost seems that if someone does not have this "evidence" of being saved.
    They are not "really" saved. So then this salvation is based on works.
     
    Lyndle likes this.
  9. Scripture is not silent on knowing Him:

    Jeremiah 22:16 (NKJV) 16 He judged the cause of the poor and needy; Then it was well. Was not this knowing Me?" says the LORD.

    John 4:34 (NKJV) 34 Jesus said to them, "My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work.

    Job 23:12 (NKJV) 12 I have not departed from the commandment of His lips; I have treasured the words of His mouth More than my necessary food.

    Knowing Him, walking with Him, you will find yourself doing His will :)
     
    Sent from a mobile device
    rag4aCrown and Sue J Love like this.
  10. Thank you! I appreciate you sharing those additional thoughts.
     
  11. @Sue J Love
    @B-A-C
    @earospc
    @Jesus_is_LORD


    'Thus saith the LORD,
    "Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom,
    neither let the mighty man glory in his might,
    let not the rich man glory in his riches:

    But let him that glorieth glory in this,
    that he understandeth and knoweth me,

    that I am the LORD
    which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth:
    for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.'

    (Jer. 9:23,4)

    Hello there,

    Our chief purpose is to, 'know Him', isn't it? It was Paul's desire:-

    'Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss
    for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord:
    for whom I have suffered the loss of all things,
    and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
    And be found in Him,
    not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law,
    but that which is through the faith of Christ,
    the righteousness which is of God by faith:
    That I may know Him,
    and the power of his resurrection,
    and the fellowship of His sufferings,
    being made conformable unto His death;'

    (Phil.3:8-10)

    Knowing Him takes time, and is the work of the Holy Spirit, He takes of the things of Christ and makes them known unto us. He who begins a work in us, goes on to bring it to fruition. We are truly His workmanship, aren't we? He is working in us and bringing us to a knowledge of Christ in all His fulness (Eph.4:13). For of Him have all we received and grace for grace.

    May His Name be Praised!

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     

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