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Do We Really Practice Galatians 2:20?

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Galatians 2:20 "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

There are several Truths explained in this Verse that's worthy of reminding ourselves, especially how we treat each other when a thread in any of the forum exchanges, get a little heated.

First lets remind ourselves of....
2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

This verse clearly states, that if we have been truly saved, we are a new supernatural creation of Almighty God. We are not what we used to be. Also, we are not all that we're going to be. BUT, that's no excuse to keep acting like a change never happened!

A New Creature acts and lives differently from the old. Especially in how we speak to other Christians. That's where Galatians 2:20 comes in.

Galatians 2:20 "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Crucified means DEAD! If Jesus died, so did we. DEAD! Now, because of a great act on God's part, nevertheless, I live. Listen please, thru the blessed Holy Spirit Who entered our bodies and made them His Temple of operations for our lives, as well as to other Brothers and Sisters. Our bodies belong to Someone other than us. Our bodies have been bought and paid for. They belong to Jesus as He acts thru His Spirit.

The Holy Spirit represents Christ Jesus, and in Chopperism, that means, "move out old Chopper, you're not welcome here anymore, your righteously evicted. Now, since Christ, thru the Spirit, lives in us, that is, in our body, His Temple, we need to live and act like He really IS in us.

How do we treat others? Do we act like it's Jesus acting thru us? or has our old nature taken control of the reins of our minds and usurped the function of Jesus in us? Does that grieve the Holy Spirit in us? YOU BET IT DOES.

How about when we are conversing with a Brother or Sister in a certain thread, are we throwing snarks at them like we did when we were a kid in a snowball fight? Jesus doesn't appreciate how we are using His reclaimed Temple and tongue to insult, and even hurt & offend by our fleshly remarks.

So, lets remember this absolute Truth. Not only does Jesus live in us, Jesus lives in our Brothers and Sisters. When we throw a snark at a Brother, in reality, we are throwing a snark at Jesus the Son of God....Just think about it, please.
 
Loyal
BUT, that's no excuse to keep acting like a change never happened!
I wonder... if we go on "acting like" nothing ever changed, did in fact... anything really change?

"If we are not changed by grace, we are not saved by grace" -- A.W. Tozer
 
Loyal
Galatians 2:20 "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

There are several Truths explained in this Verse that's worthy of reminding ourselves, especially how we treat each other when a thread in any of the forum exchanges, get a little heated.

First lets remind ourselves of....
2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

This verse clearly states, that if we have been truly saved, we are a new supernatural creation of Almighty God. We are not what we used to be. Also, we are not all that we're going to be. BUT, that's no excuse to keep acting like a change never happened!
We have a new opportunity to do what Adam and Eve failed to do: Obey God when we are given an alternative. They disobeyed and died. Another death was required to bring them to Life, but no one was qualified to be the sacrifice, so God provided His Son.

A New Creature acts and lives differently from the old. Especially in how we speak to other Christians. That's where Galatians 2:20 comes in.

Galatians 2:20 "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Crucified means DEAD! If Jesus died, so did we. DEAD! Now, because of a great act on God's part, nevertheless, I live. Listen please, thru the blessed Holy Spirit Who entered our bodies and made them His Temple of operations for our lives, as well as to other Brothers and Sisters. Our bodies belong to Someone other than us. Our bodies have been bought and paid for. They belong to Jesus as He acts thru His Spirit.
Slight disagreement here my friend in that I don't see the old man of us as dead until he has been killed. Jesus' death did not kill us completely nor in most cases did our 1st repentance. For this reason Paul writes:

"I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily." I Cor 15:31


The Holy Spirit represents Christ Jesus, and in Chopperism, that means, "move out old Chopper, you're not welcome here anymore, your righteously evicted. Now, since Christ, thru the Spirit, lives in us, that is, in our body, His Temple, we need to live and act like He really IS in us.
But... I would say, "we" have to allow the eviction and continue to allow it until all of the garbage is gone and replaced by things of God. The alternative is:

"Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matt 12:44-45

That man's problem was he left it "empty". This is why we are to refill it by eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Jesus.

How do we treat others? Do we act like it's Jesus acting thru us? or has our old nature taken control of the reins of our minds and usurped the function of Jesus in us? Does that grieve the Holy Spirit in us? YOU BET IT DOES.
And when we grieve the Holy Spirit in us continuously will we not lose our new opportunity for Life as Adam and Eve lost the original opportunity?

How about when we are conversing with a Brother or Sister in a certain thread, are we throwing snarks at them like we did when we were a kid in a snowball fight? Jesus doesn't appreciate how we are using His reclaimed Temple and tongue to insult, and even hurt & offend by our fleshly remarks.

So, lets remember this absolute Truth. Not only does Jesus live in us, Jesus lives in our Brothers and Sisters. When we throw a snark at a Brother, in reality, we are throwing a snark at Jesus the Son of God....Just think about it, please.
Yes, just think about it. And if we grow so "weary in well doing" that we stop making the effort, will we not reject the Holy Spirit in us and die as Adam and Eve died?
 
Active
I wonder... if we go on "acting like" nothing ever changed, did in fact... anything really change?

"If we are not changed by grace, we are not saved by grace" -- A.W. Tozer
That my friend is a very accurate statement! Lets look again at this verse....2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

So, if we go on acting like nothing has changed, NOTHING HAS CHANGED. we are still lost in our sins Boy, B_A_C somehow this truth has to be taught in our local churches. I myself have experienced men and women who are members of a good Bible preaching Church who say their saved, but are fakes. Some of them are convicted by the Holy Spirit and in my case, a few just left the Church that I was the Pastor/Teacher and in turn, bad mouthed me.

Today, one man who was an Elder, has died. Gone to Heaven? I doubt it.
 
Active
Now, to address some of your questions and statements.

Slight disagreement here my friend in that I don't see the old man of us as dead until he has been killed. Jesus' death did not kill us completely nor in most cases did our 1st repentance. For this reason Paul writes:

"I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily." I Cor 15:31


There is some truth to what you're saying. Progressive sanctification is a reality in all of our lives. The problem with this is many saved folk use it as an excuse to keep on sinning. What we need to do is to reckon that we don't have to sin any more. Actually, God thru His Holy Spirit has placed within our new makeup as a child of God to live right, not wrong....

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life


Now, that statement of God's Word is really the reality of our new life in Christ Jesus. Only our weakness in the flesh and excuses to gratify the flesh is what holds back what God intended in true Salvation.


That man's problem was he left it "empty". This is why we are to refill it by eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Jesus.
Your picture of a person of whom demons were evicted, and not re-filled by the Holy Spirit is certainly true. When a person is truly saved and the Holy Spirit enters that persons body and life, demon approach to enter into that persons life is impossible.

And when we grieve the Holy Spirit in us continuously will we not lose our new opportunity for Life as Adam and Eve lost the original opportunity?
The Truth about Salvation is, a true believer will not continue to grieve the Holy Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit has an unusual way to convict a person who grieves Him. I call Him the "Hound of Heaven." A true Believer in Jesus the Son of God, will not grieve Him for long. For the unbeliever who has been playing the Christian, will at some point be overcome by sin and you're right, that person is dead in trespasses of sin, and like Adam, will die.

Yes, just think about it. And if we grow so "weary in well doing" that we stop making the effort, will we not reject the Holy Spirit in us and die as Adam and Eve died?
Again, we must consider whether a person is a true believer or just someone playing church. A true believer can grow weary, but our blessed Jesus and His Spirit will come to the true child of God because they will never leave or forsake the Believer who has come upon hard times, we all do at some point....

1Peter 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.O yes. Jesus knows what we're going thru and will not loose anyone who trusts and believes in Him.

Thank you for your reply and I hope this answers what's on your mind.
 
Loyal
Now, to address some of your questions and statements.

Slight disagreement here my friend in that I don't see the old man of us as dead until he has been killed. Jesus' death did not kill us completely nor in most cases did our 1st repentance. For this reason Paul writes:

"I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily." I Cor 15:31


There is some truth to what you're saying. Progressive sanctification is a reality in all of our lives. The problem with this is many saved folk use it as an excuse to keep on sinning. What we need to do is to reckon that we don't have to sin any more. Actually, God thru His Holy Spirit has placed within our new makeup as a child of God to live right, not wrong....


Yes "many saved folk" use what you call "progressive sanctification" as an excuse to sin. I remember as a young very sincere Catholic boy wanting so badly to please God. I would do to confession faithfully and really intended not to need to confess my sins again. During all of those Catholic years I was never successful in not having to return to the confessional. So, have things improved since I returned to God as a non-Catholic? Of course they have improved because when I have allowed it, God has been leading me and building something good in me.

But... I have faltered and stumbled and sinned as a non-Catholic believer in Christ as well.

Do I reckon that I don't have to sin any more? Most certainly that is my very strong belief, but still I have stumbled and I have sinned. Have I improved? God as my witness I have, but I have lost some more battles, but I believe that God is winning the war for me.


Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life
Now, that statement of God's Word is really the reality of our new life in Christ Jesus. Only our weakness in the flesh and excuses to gratify the flesh is what holds back what God intended in true Salvation.
And eventually given the right to do so, God will clean up the whole mess of me and fill up all of the dark places in me with Light. The stumbling block as always is me.

Are we baptized completely into Jesus and into his death? While the dip in the water is important it is only symbolic or even prophetic, I believe, of that final and complete baptism. Jesus asked a question of John and James, and then he answered it himself this way:

"Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:.." Matt 20:23

Jesus knew that they would, but at the moment when he spoke to them it had not yet occurred. People receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit and feel wonderful... [I certainly did]... but the Holy Spirit was unable to enter the darkest places in their hearts even in that experience. They were unaware of the depths of their own darknesses...but as Jesus knew what would happen with John and James, he also knew that those two while among the first would most certainly not be the last.

Your picture of a person of whom demons were evicted, and not re-filled by the Holy Spirit is certainly true. When a person is truly saved and the Holy Spirit enters that persons body and life, demon approach to enter into that persons life is impossible.


And as anyone who has not overcome all of the darknesses still in himself is not really finally saved yet, so are many of us. Anyone not yielding to the Holy Spirit regularly and continuously is not saved in that final sense in spite of all the blessings he may have already received from God. The end is not yet.


The Truth about Salvation is, a true believer will not continue to grieve the Holy Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit has an unusual way to convict a person who grieves Him. I call Him the "Hound of Heaven." A true Believer in Jesus the Son of God, will not grieve Him for long. For the unbeliever who has been playing the Christian, will at some point be overcome by sin and you're right, that person is dead in trespasses of sin, and like Adam, will die.

Again, we must consider whether a person is a true believer or just someone playing church. A true believer can grow weary, but our blessed Jesus and His Spirit will come to the true child of God because they will never leave or forsake the Believer who has come upon hard times, we all do at some point....
Actually, we probably do not really disagree. Apparently, we simply have different definitions of what it means to be saved. A person may indeed repent and received the gift of the Holy Ghost and then according to many people and church groups he is saved. But... if he ever stumbles and sin again, he was not completely and finally saved at all. As you say, "A true Believer in Jesus the Son of God" will not grieve the Holy Spirit continuously. An unbeliever who has been playing at being a Christian will.

Can we tell the difference? Only by discernment through the Holy Spirit in us if it is given to us by God to do so. People let roll from their tongues the words "by their fruits" we can know them (the good guys from the bad guys), but who is able to see the good fruits for what they are without the eyes given them by the Holy Spirit?

1Peter 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
O yes. Jesus knows what we're going thru and will not loose anyone who trusts and believes in Him.

Thank you for your reply and I hope this answers what's on your mind.
As I have said I have seen something "good" in you from the first even though our technical explanations might lead some to believe that we are in very different camps. Yes, your answers satisfy me, but perhaps my question is similar to the questions the Baptist sent from his prison cell to Jesus. Both men were holy and of God, but they were appeared to the undiscerning eye to be quite different:

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children." Matt 11:18-19
 
Loyal
"Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:.." Matt 20:23
Well, it could be water baptism... but by this time they had already been baptized (and indeed had baptized many others).
Or it could be the Holy Spirit, (which happened in Acts 2).

But many take this passage to mean they will die a violent death for their faith as Jesus did.
Jesus asked for that cup to be taken away, but He was obedient to the Father, even unto death.
This entire passage, about James and John being seated next to Jesus in heaven (Matt 20:20-23; )
seems to be about... are you willing to pay the price for your faith that I paid?

We know that James was killed by a violent death (sword, Acts 12:2; ) by Herod, presumably for his faith.
(it says "some who belonged to the church" in verse 1)

So many take this passage to mean, that some will be tested by fire. ( 1 Pet 1:7; ) so that the "proof of your
faith" will be made evident. Jesus said He would baptize us in the Holy Ghost and fire.
That could be a spiritual "fire". Or it could be just the trials of life that force us to stand up and reveal
our faith, even in the "fire" of life.

I was a fireman for many years. We had a phrase, about being baptized in fire.
Some people simply refuse to go into a burning house.
Other's have a lot of courage and don't have much trouble with doing it.
Yet, others will eventually do it if they see someone else set an example for them.
The ones that refuse to go in... they don't stay on the fire dept very long.

Sometimes God puts us in the fire, to see if we will drink of the cup He has given us.
 
Active

Yes "many saved folk" use what you call "progressive sanctification" as an excuse to sin. I remember as a young very sincere Catholic boy wanting so badly to please God. I would do to confession faithfully and really intended not to need to confess my sins again. During all of those Catholic years I was never successful in not having to return to the confessional. So, have things improved since I returned to God as a non-Catholic? Of course they have improved because when I have allowed it, God has been leading me and building something good in me.

But... I have faltered and stumbled and sinned as a non-Catholic believer in Christ as well.

Do I reckon that I don't have to sin any more? Most certainly that is my very strong belief, but still I have stumbled and I have sinned. Have I improved? God as my witness I have, but I have lost some more battles, but I believe that God is winning the war for me.




And eventually given the right to do so, God will clean up the whole mess of me and fill up all of the dark places in me with Light. The stumbling block as always is me.

Are we baptized completely into Jesus and into his death? While the dip in the water is important it is only symbolic or even prophetic, I believe, of that final and complete baptism. Jesus asked a question of John and James, and then he answered it himself this way:

"Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:.." Matt 20:23

Jesus knew that they would, but at the moment when he spoke to them it had not yet occurred. People receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit and feel wonderful... [I certainly did]... but the Holy Spirit was unable to enter the darkest places in their hearts even in that experience. They were unaware of the depths of their own darknesses...but as Jesus knew what would happen with John and James, he also knew that those two while among the first would most certainly not be the last.



And as anyone who has not overcome all of the darknesses still in himself is not really finally saved yet, so are many of us. Anyone not yielding to the Holy Spirit regularly and continuously is not saved in that final sense in spite of all the blessings he may have already received from God. The end is not yet.




Actually, we probably do not really disagree. Apparently, we simply have different definitions of what it means to be saved. A person may indeed repent and received the gift of the Holy Ghost and then according to many people and church groups he is saved. But... if he ever stumbles and sin again, he was not completely and finally saved at all. As you say, "A true Believer in Jesus the Son of God" will not grieve the Holy Spirit continuously. An unbeliever who has been playing at being a Christian will.

Can we tell the difference? Only by discernment through the Holy Spirit in us if it is given to us by God to do so. People let roll from their tongues the words "by their fruits" we can know them (the good guys from the bad guys), but who is able to see the good fruits for what they are without the eyes given them by the Holy Spirit?



As I have said I have seen something "good" in you from the first even though our technical explanations might lead some to believe that we are in very different camps. Yes, your answers satisfy me, but perhaps my question is similar to the questions the Baptist sent from his prison cell to Jesus. Both men were holy and of God, but they were appeared to the undiscerning eye to be quite different:

"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children." Matt 11:18-19
A most wonderful reply my good friend. We do agree, just with different slants on the Truth. In the end, your Scripture...."But wisdom is justified of her children." Matt 11:18-19" is most true. One day, the Books will be open, and our works will judge us, therefore, wisdom is justified of her children.
 
Active
Well, it could be water baptism... but by this time they had already been baptized (and indeed had baptized many others).
Or it could be the Holy Spirit, (which happened in Acts 2).

But many take this passage to mean they will die a violent death for their faith as Jesus did.
Jesus asked for that cup to be taken away, but He was obedient to the Father, even unto death.
This entire passage, about James and John being seated next to Jesus in heaven (Matt 20:20-23; )
seems to be about... are you willing to pay the price for your faith that I paid?

We know that James was killed by a violent death (sword, Acts 12:2; ) by Herod, presumably for his faith.
(it says "some who belonged to the church" in verse 1)

So many take this passage to mean, that some will be tested by fire. ( 1 Pet 1:7; ) so that the "proof of your
faith" will be made evident. Jesus said He would baptize us in the Holy Ghost and fire.
That could be a spiritual "fire". Or it could be just the trials of life that force us to stand up and reveal
our faith, even in the "fire" of life.

I was a fireman for many years. We had a phrase, about being baptized in fire.
Some people simply refuse to go into a burning house.
Other's have a lot of courage and don't have much trouble with doing it.
Yet, others will eventually do it if they see someone else set an example for them.
The ones that refuse to go in... they don't stay on the fire dept very long.

Sometimes God puts us in the fire, to see if we will drink of the cup He has given us.
You my friend, have acquired a lot of knowledge, I'm impressed.
 
Loyal
Well, it could be water baptism... but by this time they had already been baptized (and indeed had baptized many others).
Or it could be the Holy Spirit, (which happened in Acts 2).

But many take this passage to mean they will die a violent death for their faith as Jesus did.
Jesus asked for that cup to be taken away, but He was obedient to the Father, even unto death.
This entire passage, about James and John being seated next to Jesus in heaven (Matt 20:20-23; )
seems to be about... are you willing to pay the price for your faith that I paid?

We know that James was killed by a violent death (sword, Acts 12:2; ) by Herod, presumably for his faith.
(it says "some who belonged to the church" in verse 1)

So many take this passage to mean, that some will be tested by fire. ( 1 Pet 1:7; ) so that the "proof of your
faith" will be made evident. Jesus said He would baptize us in the Holy Ghost and fire.
That could be a spiritual "fire". Or it could be just the trials of life that force us to stand up and reveal
our faith, even in the "fire" of life.

I was a fireman for many years. We had a phrase, about being baptized in fire.
Some people simply refuse to go into a burning house.
Other's have a lot of courage and don't have much trouble with doing it.
Yet, others will eventually do it if they see someone else set an example for them.
The ones that refuse to go in... they don't stay on the fire dept very long.

Sometimes God puts us in the fire, to see if we will drink of the cup He has given us.
The verse undoubtedly means that the way ahead is not so easy as our flesh might hope for...

The fire always brings to my mind the three Hebrews of Daniel chapter 3 who stood for what they believed and were thrown into the fire for it. Nebuchadnezzar meant it as a punishment for refusing to obey him, but we know that they chose rather to obey God. They did not know that God would cover them against fire, but they did know God. Some will end like those three while others may go the way of Stephen. Either way will be God's Way.

Our willingness is what God is looking for. He is looking at our hearts. What is in them? Our God is a "consuming fire", but will His embrace consume us or burn off our binding ropes while keeping us warm and alive?
 
Active
Before we get to v20 we must first get past v17 & 18 before we start thinking whether we are crucified with Christ or not. For if we are yet found selfish [for example], is there fore Christ the minister of selfishness? God forbid; or if we are yet found liars, or still a piece of corrupt fruit on us: is there fore Christ the minister of lying or corruption? God forbid. And if begin to build the sins which we have destroyed, we then make ourselves in defiance. We must needs first examine ourselves and consider our ways before taking thought for the rest.
 
Active
Before we get to v20 we must first get past v17 & 18 before we start thinking whether we are crucified with Christ or not. For if we are yet found selfish [for example], is there fore Christ the minister of selfishness? God forbid; or if we are yet found liars, or still a piece of corrupt fruit on us: is there fore Christ the minister of lying or corruption? God forbid. And if begin to build the sins which we have destroyed, we then make ourselves in defiance. We must needs first examine ourselves and consider our ways before taking thought for the rest.
You have a good point there my friend. Of course being selfish, and a liar should not depict a true life in Christ Jesus, so the Holy Spirit guides us thru a process of spiritual growth. If a person was to wait until he gets perfect, he'll never get saved.
 
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