Do harm to no man

[DiscipleofYHWH]

Most Christians believe its okay to kill or harm others while protecting themselves, family, or country. Most so called pastors agree, but the word of God says contrary. Christ Yahshua says in
Matthew 5:7-9
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Matthew 5:38-39
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Matthew 5:44
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
John the Baptist told roman soldiers in,
Luke 3:14
14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.
1 Peter 3:9 says,
9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
Ephesians 6:15 says,
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
When Paul was struck in the mouth he did not retaliate with violence,
Acts 23:2-3
2 And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth.
3 Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law?
Revelation 13:10 says,
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Matthew 26:51-52
51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
Christ also says we are to be as wise as a serpepnt and as harmless as a dove,
Matt 10:16
16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Of course this goes against human nature. But Christ followers are to be separate and different than worldly people. They are peaceful, loving, and kind. When a man kills another man he takes not only his life but also that mans chance to repent and be saved. For all who die in sin are damned. This is why christians can not harm or kill anyone for any reason.
Romans 8:36
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Revelation 12:11
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.


Romans 12:17-21
17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.


James 1:19-20
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.


Ephesian 4:26,31-32
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.


1 Peter 3:8-14
8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

13 And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?

14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;




For no reason can we kill another man as they still have a chance at repentance and salvation and by killing them we rob them of this chance. That is a sin. Loving not our lives unto death is something we all must do, we must care about not just the lives and souls of our loved ones but about the lives and souls of those who we have never met, we even must care for the souls of our enemies. As Christ said.
Luke 6:32-36
32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

The Lord tells us that we are to have the same mercy on the wicked and the evil as the Lord showed us. By the Lord's love he cared enough to die for us that we might be saved. With that same love are we to love, with that same mercy are we to show mercy to the wicked and the evil who wish to harm us.
John 13:
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
1 John 4:
7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19We love him, because he first loved us.
20If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.


We are commanded to love one another as the Lord has loved us. And that love is to freely lay down our lives for our friends and to show mercy on the wicked and to love them as the Lord loved us(for he died to save the wicked and the evil that they may come to repentance and be saved through him).
John 15:
10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Ephesians 2:4 - But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Luke 5:
31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

It is this love that worketh no ill that we are all to have, preach, and show to everyone wicked and righteous alike.
Romans 13:
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Love not our lives unto death, not defend your life(or any other life) with violence.
Revelation 12:11
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Romans 8:36
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Matt 5:
39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

1 Peter 3:
9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

Romans 12:
17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Overcome evil with good not with violence, overcome evil with love. And if we are killed by the wicked we should pray for those killing us as Stephen prayed for those who stoned him to death.
Acts 7:
59And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. 60And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

No New Testament scripture says contrary. No! Not even one can be found.
1 Timothy 4:1
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Peace

 

[newname]

But Paul said God gave the govt to execute judgement. Should the Americans and Canadians and English have thought: oh we may not kill from Jesus. Good luck with the Nazi's. They deserve a chance too.

 

[saginon]

If people didn't stand up and fight, the devils would have conquered the planet long ago. Benjamin Netanyahu said, “If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more ‎violence. If the Jews put ‎down their weapons ‎today, there would be no ‎more Israel."

If Christians would have put down their weapons during the Crusades - there would be no more Christians.

US Showdown With Turkey to Prevent Slaughter of Christians, Kurds
_______________________________________________________________

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

 

[DiscipleofYHWH]

But Paul said God gave the govt to execute judgement. Should the Americans and Canadians and English have thought: oh we may not kill from Jesus. Good luck with the Nazi's. They deserve a chance too.

Paul never said such a thing if you are reffering to Romans 13, that is speaking of God's Church and Spiritual rulers(as described in the Chapter before). The Description given in Romans 13 cannot be speaking of world Governments.
Here is a short study explaining what Romans 13 is actually speaking about.
Let us Learn the True meaning of Romans 13:

99.9% of pastors today teach that this refers to governments and rulers of the world. But taken/understood by the spirit of YHWH truth shows us that it is referring to God and true ministers of Christ Yahshua only Rom 13:1 states that there is no power but YHWH. Also YHWH/Yahshua ordains those to teach his word ordinance's/laws/commands/doctrine All Are subject to the commands of God not those of the world. Romans 13:2,
Whosoever resistith the law/commands of YHWH/Yahshua resistith God, and will be damned. Rom 13:3 who are these rulers? See Romans 12:8. Romans 13:3-4 for ruler of the church of God. Those who teach his doctrine/gospel/commands are not against good, but against evil. His ministers shall praise all that follow Christ and his laws/doctrines/commands. They, God's ministers, shall bring the (word of God)the sword against all evil workers. Heb 4:12, Matt 10:44.
Heb 13:6-7
6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

If Romans 13 refers to worldly rulers and governments. It would refer to all the governments in history. Such as Ceasar, Hitler, Mao, Sadam, etc. Did they reward Christ follwers for doing good?
1. Whom put Yahshua to death?
2. By who's Laws/authority?
3. Did he do Evil?
4. What Authorities put the Apostles to death?
5. Was it for doing evil? Romans 13:3-4
6. Did the worldly authorities praise Yahshua and the Apostles for doing good work? Matt 10:18-20 "18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
;Romans 13:3
Rulers of God's church (Romans 12:8) by rightly dividing the word of God we see that Romans 13 is not speaking to worldly governments. But is speaking of those whom God has called to lead the church in all truth and goodness. His ministers/rulers(Romans 3:6) teaching all his commands/doctrine/ordinances. Rom 13:2,9-10 Laws of God. Yahshua and the Apostles teach us to follow God not man, but if man's law is NOT against God's we are to follow it.
Daniel 6:8-16
Daniel 3:12-29
Acts 5:27-29
27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,
28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.
29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Peace

 

[DiscipleofYHWH]

If people didn't stand up and fight, the devils would have conquered the planet long ago. Benjamin Netanyahu said, “If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more ‎violence. If the Jews put ‎down their weapons ‎today, there would be no ‎more Israel."

If Christians would have put down their weapons during the Crusades - there would be no more Christians.

US Showdown With Turkey to Prevent Slaughter of Christians, Kurds
_______________________________________________________________

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

Nowhere in the whole of the NT do we find support for violence or killing by any man. Not one verse exists. True Christians have never taken up weapons to have to put them down. Look at each of the Apostles, none of them retaliated with violence or advocated for it in any way. In fact every account where violence is mentioned it is being spoken out against by the Apostles, and even by Christ himself.

 

[saginon]

Paul never said such a thing if you are reffering to Romans 13, that is speaking of God's Church and Spiritual rulers(as described in the Chapter before). The Description given in Romans 13 cannot be speaking of world Governments.
Here is a short study explaining what Romans 13 is actually speaking about.
Let us Learn the True meaning of Romans 13:

99.9% of pastors today teach that this refers to governments and rulers of the world. But taken/understood by the spirit of YHWH truth shows us that it is referring to God and true ministers of Christ Yahshua only Rom 13:1 states that there is no power but YHWH. Also YHWH/Yahshua ordains those to teach his word ordinance's/laws/commands/doctrine All Are subject to the commands of God not those of the world. Romans 13:2,
Whosoever resistith the law/commands of YHWH/Yahshua resistith God, and will be damned. Rom 13:3 who are these rulers? See Romans 12:8. Romans 13:3-4 for ruler of the church of God. Those who teach his doctrine/gospel/commands are not against good, but against evil. His ministers shall praise all that follow Christ and his laws/doctrines/commands. They, God's ministers, shall bring the (word of God)the sword against all evil workers. Heb 4:12, Matt 10:44.
Heb 13:6-7
6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

If Romans 13 refers to worldly rulers and governments. It would refer to all the governments in history. Such as Ceasar, Hitler, Mao, Sadam, etc. Did they reward Christ follwers for doing good?
1. Whom put Yahshua to death?
2. By who's Laws/authority?
3. Did he do Evil?
4. What Authorities put the Apostles to death?
5. Was it for doing evil? Romans 13:3-4
6. Did the worldly authorities praise Yahshua and the Apostles for doing good work? Matt 10:18-20 "18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
;Romans 13:3
Rulers of God's church (Romans 12:8) by rightly dividing the word of God we see that Romans 13 is not speaking to worldly governments. But is speaking of those whom God has called to lead the church in all truth and goodness. His ministers/rulers(Romans 3:6) teaching all his commands/doctrine/ordinances. Rom 13:2,9-10 Laws of God. Yahshua and the Apostles teach us to follow God not man, but if man's law is NOT against God's we are to follow it.
Daniel 6:8-16
Daniel 3:12-29
Acts 5:27-29
27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,
28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.
29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Peace

I disagree with this reply just like I did with your OP. The word for powers implies people in authority, sovereign, a ruler, commander, chief, or leaders. There's direct reference implying God or ministers. You can see the different ways the word 'powers' is used here.

…"the powers that be are ordained of God."

"Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God."

Powers - of authority, jurisdiction, - the power of rule or government, etc.

"For rulers are not a terror to good works."

Rulers - a ruler, commander, chief, leader.

For he is the minister of God to thee for good...

Minister - There are two different words for minister in Romans 13. Basically it's a servant "a public minister, a servant of the state, a servant, attendant, minister, deacon, is translated minister."

There is more evidence that Romans 13 is speaking about public people in power than ministers of the Word. I think that if the passage was referring to ministers of the Word that would be apparent.

 

[DiscipleofYHWH]

I disagree with this reply just like I did with your OP. The word for powers implies people in authority, sovereign, a ruler, commander, chief, or leaders. There's direct reference implying God or ministers. You can see the different ways the word 'powers' is used here.

…"the powers that be are ordained of God."

"Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God."

Powers - of authority, jurisdiction, - the power of rule or government, etc.

"For rulers are not a terror to good works."

Rulers - a ruler, commander, chief, leader.

For he is the minister of God to thee for good...

Minister - There are two different words for minister in Romans 13. Basically it's a servant "a public minister, a servant of the state, a servant, attendant, minister, deacon, is translated minister."

There is more evidence that Romans 13 is speaking about public people in power than ministers of the Word. I think that if the passage was referring to ministers of the Word that would be apparent.

The word for power here does not mean mean government authority, it is described in the sentence i it is described as the Powers that are ordained by God.
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

If world governments were ordained by God then that means every time a Christian was killed by a world ruler it was the Lord who wanted them Dead/killed. That also means every single ruler in history has been ordained by God, as it says there is no power but of God all powers being ordained by God. Were Hitler, Mao, Saddam, Stalin, and the countless other rulers ministers unto us for Good? Did they only punish those who do evil?
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

No world ruler in history fits the Criteria of Romans 13. None have praised every Christian who does good works, and no world government has existed without being a terror unto Good works.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Also the word used for minister is:
1249. diakonos
deacon, minister, servant.
Probably from an obsolete diako (to run on errands; compare dioko); an attendant, i.e. (genitive case) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); specially, a Christian teacher and pastor (technically, a deacon or deaconess) -- deacon, minister, servant.

It refers to to a deacon or minister, a teacher or pastor, but could also be a servant(as you pointed out) but given that these people are described as ordained by God(Romans 13:1-2,4,6) and given the full description of those ordained it is easy to see that it is same people being spoken as ordained rulers of God here(Romans 12:4,8; Hebrews 13:6-7).

 

[saginon]

Nowhere in the whole of the NT do we find support for violence or killing by any man. Not one verse exists. True Christians have never taken up weapons to have to put them down. Look at each of the Apostles, none of them retaliated with violence or advocated for it in any way. In fact every account where violence is mentioned it is being spoken out against by the Apostles, and even by Christ himself.

Are you saying that if someone was attacking you and your children you would do nothing? I know that if someone is attacking my little ones the gun comes out! Nowhere in Scripture does it say that Christians can’t protect themselves or their family. What we should never do though is seek revenge. The OT is loaded with verses saying we should protect ourselves.

Let's start here..

Luke 22:35-36 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

V.38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Luke 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:

Did you read the article I posted? Did you look at the video about Zenibia, a 27 year old Christian woman who is willing to fight and die for her faith?

We should be willing to defend ourselves and the verses you've quoted to support the idea that we shouldn't were taken out of context.

No world ruler in history fits the Criteria of Romans 13. None have praised every Christian who does good works, and no world government has existed without being a terror unto Good works.

This is NOT just talking about world governments! It's talking about people in authority like even your boss at work! We can ascribe it to a leader - someone in authority over others in any capacity.

 

[saginon]

The word for power here does not mean mean government authority, it is described in the sentence i it is described as the Powers that are ordained by God.
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

If world governments were ordained by God then that means every time a Christian was killed by a world ruler it was the Lord who wanted them Dead/killed. That also means every single ruler in history has been ordained by God, as it says there is no power but of God all powers being ordained by God. Were Hitler, Mao, Saddam, Stalin, and the countless other rulers ministers unto us for Good? Did they only punish those who do evil?
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

No world ruler in history fits the Criteria of Romans 13. None have praised every Christian who does good works, and no world government has existed without being a terror unto Good works.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Also the word used for minister is:
1249. diakonos
deacon, minister, servant.
Probably from an obsolete diako (to run on errands; compare dioko); an attendant, i.e. (genitive case) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); specially, a Christian teacher and pastor (technically, a deacon or deaconess) -- deacon, minister, servant.

It refers to to a deacon or minister, a teacher or pastor, but could also be a servant(as you pointed out) but given that these people are described as ordained by God(Romans 13:1-2,4,6) and given the full description of those ordained it is easy to see that it is same people being spoken as ordained rulers of God here(Romans 12:4,8; Hebrews 13:6-7).

You are throwing the first verse right out the window.

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

The lesson about "the powers that be" - higher powers that we are under the authority of, authority was ordained by God.
The word minister is used in a multitude of ways. The main definition of minister is not a deacon like you TRIED to make it be. It's...

G1249 diakonos
1. One who executes the commands of another, esp. of a master, a servant, attendant, minister.
A. The servant of a king
B. A deacon, one who, by virtue of the office assigned to him by the church, cares for the poor and has charge of and distributes the money collected for their use.
C. a waiter, one who serves food and drink.

Verse 6 uses the word "leitourgos."
It means...

1. a public minister, a servant of the state
2. a minister, servant
   1. so of military labourers
   2. of the temple
      1. of one busied with holy things
      2. of a priest
   3. of the servants of a king
   4. ________________________________________-
3. It's more apparent that this passage is about the powers that be in any place of authority outside of the church and NOT within it. IT would be apparent IF this was inferring the church and its leadership hierarchy, but it's not. Paul covers that quite well.

 

[DiscipleofYHWH]

You are throwing the first verse right out the window.

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

The lesson about "the powers that be" - higher powers that we are under the authority of, authority was ordained by God.
The word minister is used in a multitude of ways. The main definition of minister is not a deacon like you TRIED to make it be. It's...

G1249 diakonos
1. One who executes the commands of another, esp. of a master, a servant, attendant, minister.
A. The servant of a king
B. A deacon, one who, by virtue of the office assigned to him by the church, cares for the poor and has charge of and distributes the money collected for their use.
C. a waiter, one who serves food and drink.

Verse 6 uses the word "leitourgos."
It means...

1. a public minister, a servant of the state
2. a minister, servant
   1. so of military labourers
   2. of the temple
      1. of one busied with holy things
      2. of a priest
   3. of the servants of a king
   4. ________________________________________-
3. It's more apparent that this passage is about the powers that be in any place of authority outside of the church and NOT within it. IT would be apparent IF this was inferring the church and its leadership hierarchy, but it's not. Paul covers that quite well.

I did not ignore the first verse or throw it out at all. Instead I used it repeatedly to show that Romans 13 is speaking about the Lord's ministers and not world governments.

There is no main definition of Diakonos the word derives it's meaning from the context it is being used in. As do all greek words. So the defintion is could be any one of these
1249. diakonos
deacon, minister, servant.
Probably from an obsolete diako (to run on errands; compare dioko); an attendant, i.e. (genitive case) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); specially, a Christian teacher and pastor (technically, a deacon or deaconess) -- deacon, minister, servant.
And which one it is is based entirely on Context.

As to 3011. leitourgos
minister
From a derivative of laos and ergon; a public servant, i.e. A functionary in the Temple or Gospel, or (genitive case) a worshipper (of God) or benefactor (of man) -- minister(-ed).

The underlined is also a viable definition based on the context of Romans 13 and even within the context of Romans 13:6
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

Nothing within the above verse rules the Lord's ministers being just that, actual ministers of the Lord.

But again you keep ignoring these facts.
If world governments were ordained by God then that means every time a Christian was killed by a world ruler it was the Lord who wanted them Dead/killed. That also means every single ruler in history has been ordained by God, as it says there is no power but of God all powers being ordained by God. Were Hitler, Mao, Saddam, Stalin, and the countless other rulers ministers unto us for Good? Did they only punish those who do evil?
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

No world ruler in history fits the Criteria of Romans 13. None have praised every Christian who does good works, and no world government has existed without being a terror unto Good works.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Unless the governments of the world meet all the requirements of the Rulers shown in Romans 13 there is no reason to just assume that Romans 13 is speaking of World rulers(as is most often the case with ministers of Today). But all evidence is to the contrary. Even just reading from the word of God we know that world governmets are in fact a terror unto good works. Just from a clear reading of this verse than that be understood.


Matt 10:18-20 "18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

 

[DiscipleofYHWH]

Are you saying that if someone was attacking you and your children you would do nothing? I know that if someone is attacking my little ones the gun comes out! Nowhere in Scripture does it say that Christians can’t protect themselves or their family. What we should never do though is seek revenge. The OT is loaded with verses saying we should protect ourselves.

Let's start here..

Luke 22:35-36 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

V.38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Luke 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:

Did you read the article I posted? Did you look at the video about Zenibia, a 27 year old Christian woman who is willing to fight and die for her faith?

We should be willing to defend ourselves and the verses you've quoted to support the idea that we shouldn't were taken out of context.

This is NOT just talking about world governments! It's talking about people in authority like even your boss at work! We can ascribe it to a leader - someone in authority over others in any capacity.

Yes that is exactly what I am saying, and that is exactly what me and my family practice. There are dozens of Places in scripture that say we are not to harm anyone for any reason, see the original post if you would like to read them.

1. He said nothing about defending oneself. This is what he was speaking of when he said:
35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

He that carried the purse and script was Judas(he was the only one with those things) he was speaking to what Judas would later do in turning him in
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
John 12:4-6
4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,
5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?
6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

John 13:29
29 For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor.

When he told he that had not the sword to buy the sword he spoke of peter who would draw up the sword
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: andhe that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Matt 26:51-54
51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

John 18:10-11
10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

This was said to them because all that was spoken of him must be fulfilled.

37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough."

He spoke of what needed to be fulfilled of him not of self defense.


2.
Luke 11:
17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.

19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.

20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:

22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.

23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.

25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.

26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

These verses are speaking about casting out devils, where they go afterward, protecting yourself against them, and what happens if you turn again to evil ways(verse 24-26). None of what is said is in support of violence but instead to guard ourselves from demons.

3. Everything that I have said means exactly as it is written, and exactly as I have used it.