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Did Jesus ever claim to be divine?

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Member
Howdy friends,

This is a debate that many skeptics and believers have gone through back and forth. I've heard agnostic opposition challenge that Jesus never really claimed to be divine and that this was an ideology put in place by 1st century Christians or even through the ideology of Gnosticism going into the 2nd century.

So the question is... Is there evidence within the Gospels that Jesus clearly proclaimed to be divine?

I truly appreciate all yall's input. God bless.
 
Member
Perhaps this is not the answer you are looking for but here goes:
First and most importantly the Father calls Him Ho' Theos or Most High God. While Jesus did indeed declare His true nature as God many would try to argue the point. In the following verse we have all the proof we need:

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
 
Loyal
Hi TallTexan

How about John chapter 8?

"I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."

At this the Jews exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?"

Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."

"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"​

The Jews certainly thought Jesus was claiming to be divine. When he said this they tried to stone him for blasphemy!

The gospels do not record many instances of Jesus claiming to be divine. The reason for this, I believe, is that he could not have openly claimed to be the Son of God without the Pharisees and others clamping down on him completely.

Having said that, almost everything Jesus says implies that he is divine. It is not possible to make sense of such statements as "Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven" unless you accept that Jesus claimed to be divine.

ShortBrit
 
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Member
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Mat 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
Mat 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.


Luk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.


Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.



Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:



Joh 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;


Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.



Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Joh 6:48 I am that bread of life.


The way I se it is! The Father thinks it ,the Word [Jesus ] speaks it and the Power [Holy Ghost] Does it Al;l one being! made of three parts as HE made us !

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
 
Member
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.



LOTS more Scripture showing He is GOD!
He is a P{art of god!
 
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considering the whole bible is somehow talking about Jesus id say yes. but check this out:

Joh 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

id say thats devine as it gets.

when he came he served all...
Luk 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

here is one that makes me speechless
Isa 50:6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.
seeing as how thats in isiah i would say thats pretty devive. isaiah lived many years before jesus came.
 
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Member
Howdy friends,

This is a debate that many skeptics and believers have gone through back and forth. I've heard agnostic opposition challenge that Jesus never really claimed to be divine and that this was an ideology put in place by 1st century Christians or even through the ideology of Gnosticism going into the 2nd century.

So the question is... Is there evidence within the Gospels that Jesus clearly proclaimed to be divine?

I truly appreciate all yall's input. God bless.
John 10:30 - NIV "I And My Father Are One" means: I and my Father are part of a triune Godhead ... Christ is very clear on this. The unity to which he referred in John 10:30 is the same unity He speaks of in relation to His followers, Himself, and God
John 17:21 - NIV that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

The Bible teaches that Jesus is one of three separate personal beings who are divine. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are equal and have always existed. The Bible view of the divinity of Christ is categorically different from Mormon, Christadelphian, Jehovah's Witnesses, or Atheist.

We will one day share the divine pattern of moral conduct and be equal to God in righteousness but mankind will in no sense ever be considered divine or equal to God in nature. Jesus pro-existed His physical birth: Jn 1:15 + Lk 1:24-26; Jn 1:1. Jesus created ALL THINGS and therefore is not Himself created: Jn 1:3; Col 1:16,17; Heb 1:2,10. Rev 5:13,14 pictures a scene with all creation worshipping Jesus as God: Rev 5:13,14
^- What different churches teach about Christ's Nature @ The Deity of Jesus Christ
 
Member
Jesus is divine, a deity, for John 1:18 says that “no man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him.” Hence, John says that Jesus is “the only-begotten god” that resides with the Father.

And at Hebrews 1:8, the rendering by several Bibles, which follow the pattern of the King James Bible, tries to make it seem as if Jesus is God. However, verse 9 would be out of place if at verse 8, Jesus is seen as God, for verse 9 says that “you (Jesus Christ) loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you (Jesus Christ) with the oil of exultation more than your partners.” Jesus Christ is thus shown to have a God, who “anointed (him) with the oil of exultation more than your partners.” The apostle Paul was quoting from Psalms 45:6, 7.

When Jesus said that the “Father and I are one” at John 10:30, the Jews angrily wanted to stone him, saying: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy, even because you, although being a man, make yourself a god.” Jesus, in response to their anger, told them: “Is it not written in your Law (at Psalms 82:1), ‘I said: “You are gods”’? If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified, do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son? “(John 10:34-36)

Hence, Jesus said that he was “God’s Son”, and not God.
 
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Member
The Claim

The question was; Is there evidence within the Gospels that Jesus clearly proclaimed to be divine?


The best evidence of this I didn`t see posted from any other`s was here in Mark 2:1-12.

It centers around this point "THE FORGIVENESS OF SIN".

And when he entered again into Capernaum after some days, it was noised that he was in the house. And many were gathered together, so that there was no longer room for them, no, not even about the door: and he spake the word unto them. And they come, bringing unto him a man sick of the palsy, borne of four. And when they could not come nigh unto him for the crowd, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed whereon the sick of the palsy lay. And Jesus seeing their faith saith unto the sick of the palsy,

[Son, thy sins are forgiven].

But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak? he blasphemeth: who can forgive sins but one,

[even God]?

And straightway Jesus, perceiving in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, saith unto them,

Why reason ye these things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the sick of the palsy, [Thy sins are forgiven]; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath

[authority on earth to forgive sins ]

(he saith to the sick of the palsy), [ I say unto thee, Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thy house. And he arose, and straightway took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
Mark 2:1-12 (ASV)


Verse 5 He says "thy sins are forgiven", isn`t this His proclamation to being Devine.

There is a harmony with this in Luke 5:24

I din`t see this referance either; Matt 28:18 (ASV)

<!--EndFragment--><!--EndFragment-->And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying,

[ All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth. ]

He`s plainly claiming His devinety here.

Now there are those that will argue the authority issue, but the Holy Spirit made sure that this one (3) lettered word was inserted into the verse "ALL", beautiful how truth works itself out into the light!

Here we see again Jesus claiming His authority John 5:21-27 (ASV);

For as the Father raiseth the dead and giveth them life, even so the Son also giveth life to whom he will. For neither doth the Father judge any man, but he hath given all judgment unto the Son; that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father that sent him. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself, even so gave he to the Son also to have life in himself: and he gave him authority to execute judgment, because he is a son of man.

Now I`ve got this last one here, I dont think that I saw it anywhere else in the post`s. I would like to make a point here, I`m not trying to say anything was left out on any other responces, I`m just trying to provide the utmost information from Scriprture and not repeat what anyone else has already posted as a responce, okay:John 14:8-9 (ASV)

Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and dost thou not know me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; how sayest thou, Show us the Father?

Look at what He says to philip," Have I been so long time with you, and dost thou not know me, Philip"? Okay now the punch line and what a punch, KNOCK OUT 10 COUNT, NO GETTING UP PLAYERS HE`S MAKING IT CLEAR WHO HE IS:

[he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;]

I believe that`s as Devine as you can get.

Thanks for the time and the question, it was a good one to ask, we need to as christian defend our believe`s every chance that we get, it`s what our savior did. Not just in Scripture but at the cross for you and I.

Amen

Yort--------------------------------------------Troy
 
Member
Jesus is divine, a deity, for John 1:18 says that “no man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him.” Hence, John says that Jesus is “the only-begotten god” that resides with the Father.

And at Hebrews 1:8, the rendering by several Bibles, which follow the pattern of the King James Bible, tries to make it seem as if Jesus is God. However, verse 9 would be out of place if at verse 8, Jesus is seen as God, for verse 9 says that “you (Jesus Christ) loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you (Jesus Christ) with the oil of exultation more than your partners.” Jesus Christ is thus shown to have a God, who “anointed (him) with the oil of exultation more than your partners.” The apostle Paul was quoting from Psalms 45:6, 7.

When Jesus said that the “Father and I are one” at John 10:30, the Jews angrily wanted to stone him, saying: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy, even because you, although being a man, make yourself a god.” Jesus, in response to their anger, told them: “Is it not written in your Law (at Psalms 82:1), ‘I said: “You are gods”’? If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified, do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son? “(John 10:34-36)

Hence, Jesus said that he was “God’s Son”, and not God.


This is very confusing to me.

First, you say Jesus is divine, a deity.

Then, you say He is not God.



Matthew 4:7
Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. (This was when satan tempted Jesus. Was Jesus saying He was 'Lord thy God'. I think so.)


John 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

19And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?

20And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

21And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

22Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?

23He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

24And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.

25And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?

26John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;

27He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

28These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.

29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


I believe the Word made flesh...is Jesus. The Word WAS God...that about tells it all for me.

Jesus is God. God is Jesus.
 
Member
so i was thinking about this thread before i went to sleep last night.

it came to my mind that Jesus Christ means savior and annointed one. it made me laugh to think people said he never claimed to be devine when the meaning of his name says he is devine.
 
Member
Yes through the whole counsel of God!

Gen 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
(Who is the lamb?)

Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.
(Who is the savior we hear about during Christmas?)

Isa 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
(Who was sent on a mission down to earth?)

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(One what? God!)

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Php 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
 
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Active

RJ

a God Incarnate

He was God made flesh. I don't see were there is any contradictions, Jesus Christ is God.The bible is clear about his claim; He himself told the critics of His day that, " If you have seen me you have seen the Father".
Blessings
 
Member
The Gospel of John differs from the other Gospels in structure and content but also in its very specific diction. There are about 20 distinct occasions where Jesus uses the words "I AM". These occurences cannot be overlooked as coincidence. The Gospel seems to shout this fact in 4.26, 8.58 and 18.5. To proclaim himself as the "I AM" of the Old Testament would be blasphemy for anyone but God. Jesus intentionally and publicly does it throughout the book. I would say that this is the most salient proof of him proclaiming himself to be God.
 
Member
This is very confusing to me.

First, you say Jesus is divine, a deity.

Then, you say He is not God.



Matthew 4:7
Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. (This was when satan tempted Jesus. Was Jesus saying He was 'Lord thy God'. I think so.)


John 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

19And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?

20And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

21And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

22Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?

23He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

24And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.

25And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?

26John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;

27He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

28These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.

29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


I believe the Word made flesh...is Jesus. The Word WAS God...that about tells it all for me.

Jesus is God. God is Jesus.

Hello Giggles4God,

Jesus is indeed divine, for the word "divine" means "having godlike nature: being God or a god or goddess....caused by God"(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) And of the word "deity", the same reference says: " 1. god or goddess: a god, goddess, or other divine being...2. somebody or something like god...3. divine state." Hence, Jesus is both divine and a deity, but not God Almighty.

To be God, he would have had no beginning, being "from everlasting to everlasting".(Ps 90:2) Jesus himself, though, said that he was "the beginning of the creation by God" at Revelation 3:14. He thus established that he was created. These words are not the words of someone else, but he personally said this.

At Matthew 4:7, in replying to Satan, Jesus quoted from Deuteronomy 6:16, and told him: "Again it is written, ‘You must not put Jehovah your God to the test.’” Hence, Jesus told Satan that Jehovah, not himself, was not to be put to the test.

John 1:1 is a commonly used scripture to support the trinity doctrine. There is a problem, for the Koine Greek language had the definite article "the" (Greek ho), but lacks the indefinite article "a". Hence, if someone made the statement: "I love the girl", there is no difficulty. But if they were to say:"I love a girl", it would be literally rendered as "I love girl" because of the indefinite article not in the language. Likewise, in John 1:1, the rendering:" In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God", fails to consider if there should be an indefinite article in this scripture.

The definite article "the" is there, and in fact, is before the first time "God" is used but not before "God" the second time. Yet in John 1:2, the definite article "the" is again before "God". Why did John, if he was wanting to ensure that "God" (as in God Almighty) was meant in all occurrences, put the definite article "the" before "God" only two out of three times ? We can certainly say that there is a difference between "the man" and "a man", "the man" being person specific, whereas "a man" could mean any adult male on the earth.

Perhaps, an ancient Sahidic Coptic manuscript, of about the third century C.E., can assist honest-hearted ones to see what John really wrote at John 1:1. There has been found an ancient manuscript of the book of John, in the language of Sahidic Coptic, a language that was spoken in Egypt in the centuries immediately following Jesus’ earthly ministry, and the Sahidic dialect was an early literary form of the language. Regarding the earliest Coptic translations of the Bible, The Anchor Bible Dictionary says: “Since the [Septuagint] and the [Christian Greek Scriptures] were being translated into Coptic during the 3d century C.E., the Coptic version is based on [Greek manuscripts] which are significantly older than the vast majority of extant witnesses.”

The Sahidic Coptic text is especially interesting for two reasons. First, as indicated above, it reflects an understanding of Scripture dating from before the fourth century, which was when the Trinity became official doctrine. Second, Coptic grammar is relatively close to English grammar in one important aspect. The earliest translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures were into Syriac, Latin, and Coptic. Syriac and Latin, like the Greek of those days, do not have an indefinite article. Coptic, however, does. Moreover, scholar Thomas O. Lambdin, in his work Introduction to Sahidic Coptic, says: “The use of the Coptic articles, both definite and indefinite, corresponds closely to the use of the articles in English.”

Hence, the Coptic translation supplies interesting evidence as to how John 1:1 would have been understood back then. What do we find? The Sahidic Coptic translation uses an indefinite article with the word “god” in the final part of John 1:1. Thus, when rendered into modern English, the translation reads: “And the Word was a god.” Evidently, those ancient translators realized that John’s words recorded at John 1:1 did not mean that Jesus was to be identified as Almighty God. The Word was a god, not Almighty God.

JOHN 1:1. SAHIDIC COPTIC TEXT; P. CHESTER BEATTY-813 (located in Dublin, Ireland, at the Chester Beatty Library); WITH INTERLINEAR TRANSLATION

In the beginning existed the Word
and the Word existed with
the God and a god was
the Word
 
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Joh 1:1

(ASV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(BBE) From the first he was the Word, and the Word was in relation with God and was God.

(Bishops) In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God.

(CEV) In the beginning was the one who is called the Word. The Word was with God and was truly God.

(Darby) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(DRB) In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God.

(EMTV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(ESV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(Geneva) In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God.

(GNB) In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(GNT) ᾿Εν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.

(GNT-BYZ+) ενG1722 PREP αρχηG746 N-DSF ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM λογοςG3056 N-NSM καιG2532 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM λογοςG3056 N-NSM ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S προςG4314 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM θεονG2316 N-ASM καιG2532 CONJ θεοςG2316 N-NSM ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM λογοςG3056 N-NSM

(GNT-TR) εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

(GNT-TR+) ενG1722 PREP αρχηG746 N-DSF ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM λογοςG3056 N-NSM καιG2532 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM λογοςG3056 N-NSM ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S προςG4314 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM θεονG2316 N-ASM καιG2532 CONJ θεοςG2316 N-NSM ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM λογοςG3056 N-NSM

(GNT-V) εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

(GNT-WH+) ενG1722 PREP αρχηG746 N-DSF ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM λογοςG3056 N-NSM καιG2532 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM λογοςG3056 N-NSM ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S προςG4314 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM θεονG2316 N-ASM καιG2532 CONJ θεοςG2316 N-NSM ηνG1510 V-IAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM λογοςG3056 N-NSM

(GW) In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(HNT) בראשית היה הדבר והדבר היה את האלהים ואלהים היה הדבר׃

(ISV) In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(KJV+) InG1722 the beginningG746 wasG2258 theG3588 Word,G3056 andG2532 theG3588 WordG3056 wasG2258 withG4314 God,G2316 andG2532 theG3588 WordG3056 wasG2258 God.G2316

(KJV-1611) In the beginning was the Word, & the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(KJVA) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(LITV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(MKJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(Murdock) In the beginning, was the Word; and the Word was with God; and the Word was God.

(RV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(Vulgate) in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum

(Webster) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(WNT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(YLT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;


 
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Hello Giggles4God,

JOHN 1:1. SAHIDIC COPTIC TEXT;(This was made about the year 200 ad) P. CHESTER BEATTY-813 (located in <st1:place><st1:city>Dublin</st1:city>, <st1:country-region>Ireland</st1:country-region></st1:place>, at the Chester Beatty Library); WITH INTERLINEAR TRANSLATION

In the beginning existed the Word
and the Word existed with
the God and a god was
the Word

Hello All

When the New world translation was written, for Jehovah witnesses, The emphasis was on the below quote. But I am confused to why only one text, actually eight others, are only used to state
Yes only nine texts state what the above verse is implying only nine. In the New World translation with only 1 predating before 300 Ad. As if there is authority to listen to the above text.

Did you know WHAT the king James says

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.

Guess how many texts were used to bring the King James about that all date between 90 AD -225 Ad, and I might further add some could have been actually been touched by Paul the Apostle himself? Do you give up?
500 texts were used and 3500 fragments. Wow.
I must further restate that these 500 texts were before the nine that the Jehovah Witnesses use from the interlinear. And when the writers of the King James were putting the King James Bible together they threw out the nine mentioned above as being Non authoritative. Threw them in the trash can those 9 texts. Why because those 9 texts downplay the deity of Christ Jesus. They downplay God the Son coming down to save one such as you and I. They downplay that God was manifested in the flesh etc. etc. It seems that all the focus for their reason is on the first corrupt verse above, the one that says a god.

The Jehovah witnesses use the interlinear(only 9 texts used) to promote Jesus is not God.

The King James(500 texts used) promote that Jesus is God.
On the thread question itself all you have to do is google it to get a sense of why it says what it says.
 
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I'm no scholar, but I do know enough about the Bible to understand that Jesus is God.

To me, if Jesus was only God's Son would he be able to take away sin, to have that power...possibly I guess.

I think of it like this...God is the king and Jesus is the prince. If the king is still alive, does the prince have all the power? The prince gets respected and called 'Your highness', but he doesn't have all the power until the king is dead.

The difference here is that God will never die, BUT Jesus has all the power that God does. Is this logic wrong?

For Jesus to have power to take away all sin and rise from the dead, wouldn't He have to have all power? Wouldn't Jesus have to be God?

Jesus forgave people while He walked on earth, but the Pharisees said only God could do that. Was Jesus wrong then to forgive people? If He was just a man...and the Son of God...did that mean He only had some power, but not all?

I guess what I am trying to find out...trying to understand...how can those that believe Jesus is just the Son of God say that...when the Bible says otherwise.

I believe Jesus was 100% God and 100% man. He was God in flesh. And it isn't a stretch because God is omnipresent and omnicient (spelling?). He is everywhere...So He could have been on earth and in heaven all at them same time.

He is after all God Creator, Father, Master of everything.
 
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Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
 
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I just thought of this while reading the Bible and my Our Daily Bread devotional.

If Jesus isn't God, why would I want to be like Him? Why would I be called a Christ follower if He isn't God?

I wouldn't want to be. I wouldn't be following someone that doesn't have any power.
 
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