Member
Should we as Christians be a part of Christmas & it's traditions such as Christmas trees, decorations, santa claus etc.?
Read Jeremiah 10:1-4
Read Jeremiah 10:1-4
Christmas Trees
Member
I'm not too sure what to believe, but I guess it comes to how you do it and for what reason, whether it is to the glory of the Father. I think most people have christmas trees simply because it is a tradition, without knowing any real meaning behind it. There are many theories as to the origin of the christmas tree and im not sure what to believe, but I would say don't have a christmas tree just because it is a tradition, but have display it for a reason, a God-glorifying reason. DO NOT IDOLISE IT!! The verse from Jeremiah states this very clearly. It is also one of the 10 commandments. If you are unsure at all, just don't have one, so that people who have a certain belief about them that u don't share won't think that you are supporting their belief.
Here is something I found from a simple google search with a few different possible origins of the christmas tree.
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What is the origin of the Christmas tree?
The Christmas tree today is a common custom to most of us. There are many interesting connections to ancient traditions such as Egyptian and Roman customs, early Christian practices, and Victorian nostalgia. However, most scholars point to Germany as being the origin of the Christmas tree.
One of the earliest stories relating back to Germany is about Saint Boniface. In 722, he encountered some pagans who were about to sacrifice a child at the base of a huge oak tree. He cut down the tree to prevent the sacrifice and a Fir tree grew up at the base of the oak. He then told everyone that this lovely evergreen, with its branches pointing to heaven, was a holy tree - the tree of the Christ child, and a symbol of His promise of eternal life.
Another story from Germany is about Queen Victoria. She often visited relatives in Germany and while she was there, she fell in love with Prince Albert. After they were married, they moved back to England to raise their family. Prince Albert decorated a tree and ever since that time, the English, because of their love for their Queen, copied her Christmas customs including the Christmas tree and ornaments. This story took place in the 19th century, around 1830.
Another story about the origin of the Christmas tree says that late in the Middle Ages, Germans and Scandinavians placed evergreen trees inside their homes or just outside their doors to show their hope that spring would soon come.
Another legend that has not been proved is that Martin Luther is responsible for the origin of the Christmas tree. This story says that one Christmas Eve, about the year 1500, he was walking through the snow-covered woods and was struck by the beauty of the snow glistened trees. Their branches, dusted with snow, shimmered in the moon light. When he got home, he set up a small fir tree and shared the story with his children. He decorated the Christmas tree with small candles, which he lighted in honor of Christ's birth.
Research into customs of various cultures shows that greenery was often brought into homes at the time of the winter solstice. It symbolized life in the midst of death in many cultures. The Romans were known to deck their homes with evergreens during of Kalends of January 15. Living trees were also brought into homes during the old Germany feast of Yule, which originally was a two month feast beginning in November. The Yule tree was planted in a tub and brought into the home. But there is no evidence that the Christmas tree is a direct descendent of the Yule tree. Evidence does point to the Paradise tree however. This story goes back to the 11th century religious plays. One of the most popular was the Paradise Play. The play depicted the story of the creation of Adam and Eve, their sin, and their banishment from Paradise. The only prop on the stage was the Paradise tree, a fir tree adorned with apples. The play would end with the promise of the coming Savior and His Incarnation. The people had grown so accustomed to the Paradise tree, that they began putting their own Paradise tree up in their homes on December 24.
Whatever legend you wish to pass on, remember that Christmas is the time to celebrate the birth of Jesus. The origin of the Christmas tree can't change that fact.
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God bless!
-Eshy
Here is something I found from a simple google search with a few different possible origins of the christmas tree.
*******
What is the origin of the Christmas tree?
The Christmas tree today is a common custom to most of us. There are many interesting connections to ancient traditions such as Egyptian and Roman customs, early Christian practices, and Victorian nostalgia. However, most scholars point to Germany as being the origin of the Christmas tree.
One of the earliest stories relating back to Germany is about Saint Boniface. In 722, he encountered some pagans who were about to sacrifice a child at the base of a huge oak tree. He cut down the tree to prevent the sacrifice and a Fir tree grew up at the base of the oak. He then told everyone that this lovely evergreen, with its branches pointing to heaven, was a holy tree - the tree of the Christ child, and a symbol of His promise of eternal life.
Another story from Germany is about Queen Victoria. She often visited relatives in Germany and while she was there, she fell in love with Prince Albert. After they were married, they moved back to England to raise their family. Prince Albert decorated a tree and ever since that time, the English, because of their love for their Queen, copied her Christmas customs including the Christmas tree and ornaments. This story took place in the 19th century, around 1830.
Another story about the origin of the Christmas tree says that late in the Middle Ages, Germans and Scandinavians placed evergreen trees inside their homes or just outside their doors to show their hope that spring would soon come.
Another legend that has not been proved is that Martin Luther is responsible for the origin of the Christmas tree. This story says that one Christmas Eve, about the year 1500, he was walking through the snow-covered woods and was struck by the beauty of the snow glistened trees. Their branches, dusted with snow, shimmered in the moon light. When he got home, he set up a small fir tree and shared the story with his children. He decorated the Christmas tree with small candles, which he lighted in honor of Christ's birth.
Research into customs of various cultures shows that greenery was often brought into homes at the time of the winter solstice. It symbolized life in the midst of death in many cultures. The Romans were known to deck their homes with evergreens during of Kalends of January 15. Living trees were also brought into homes during the old Germany feast of Yule, which originally was a two month feast beginning in November. The Yule tree was planted in a tub and brought into the home. But there is no evidence that the Christmas tree is a direct descendent of the Yule tree. Evidence does point to the Paradise tree however. This story goes back to the 11th century religious plays. One of the most popular was the Paradise Play. The play depicted the story of the creation of Adam and Eve, their sin, and their banishment from Paradise. The only prop on the stage was the Paradise tree, a fir tree adorned with apples. The play would end with the promise of the coming Savior and His Incarnation. The people had grown so accustomed to the Paradise tree, that they began putting their own Paradise tree up in their homes on December 24.
Whatever legend you wish to pass on, remember that Christmas is the time to celebrate the birth of Jesus. The origin of the Christmas tree can't change that fact.
*******
God bless!
-Eshy
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Member
I don't see anything wrong with it as long as our motives are correct.
We've had this conversation here before.
We've had this conversation here before.
Member
Jer 10:1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. Jer 10:5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
I read this two days ago when visiting my mother - can someone please clarify whether it is related to christmas trees or what does it mean?
Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. Jer 10:5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
I read this two days ago when visiting my mother - can someone please clarify whether it is related to christmas trees or what does it mean?
Member
It might not be an actual Christmas tree because this was long before Christ's birth, but the pagan's definitely had the same tradition where they decorated a tree like we do on Christmas and it was surely continued and this could possibly be where the Christmas tree tradition derived from.
I know Christmas is celebrated big in the US so I can imagine how hard it must be to see it's true form. But I personally think Christmas is a pagan tradition created for the wrong reasons, not only is it a money making scheme but it tries it's best to minimize Jesus and calls it a Christian holiday/tradition. It is not Christian, and is in no way other than the birth of Jesus (which wasn't even in December) related to Christianity.
I think if we know the practices of the pagans and still practice it then we are guilty of idolatry. We discussed how we shouldn't watch "The Golden Compass" just because it would be supporting evil, but then we make excuses when it comes to traditions that we don't want to personally let go of like Christmas, Valentines, Easter etc. If we truly want to celebrate Christ's birth, then we should do it our way, not the world's way but out of respect and honour for God.
Mark 7:8 "You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."
Romans 12:2 "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."
I am by no means running anyone down who believes it's okay, I am just merely giving my opinion and thoughts on the matter and hope that the Holy Spirit will convict where needed if needed afterall it does say:
(Romans 14:5,6) "One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind."
I know Christmas is celebrated big in the US so I can imagine how hard it must be to see it's true form. But I personally think Christmas is a pagan tradition created for the wrong reasons, not only is it a money making scheme but it tries it's best to minimize Jesus and calls it a Christian holiday/tradition. It is not Christian, and is in no way other than the birth of Jesus (which wasn't even in December) related to Christianity.
I think if we know the practices of the pagans and still practice it then we are guilty of idolatry. We discussed how we shouldn't watch "The Golden Compass" just because it would be supporting evil, but then we make excuses when it comes to traditions that we don't want to personally let go of like Christmas, Valentines, Easter etc. If we truly want to celebrate Christ's birth, then we should do it our way, not the world's way but out of respect and honour for God.
Mark 7:8 "You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."
Romans 12:2 "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."
I am by no means running anyone down who believes it's okay, I am just merely giving my opinion and thoughts on the matter and hope that the Holy Spirit will convict where needed if needed afterall it does say:
(Romans 14:5,6) "One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind."
Member
I got this from another Christian forum and thought it was interesting and had to share it with you. They were talking about
Santa Claus and if we should be teaching our kids about him and going along with it.
Santa Claus and if we should be teaching our kids about him and going along with it.
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Member
Personally I would rather refrain from doing something that I'm not sure of than unknowingly making a mistake. But at the end of the day each person have to decide for themselves.
Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
Member
Amen sister! That is my point exactly.
Member
I think that most people who put up a Christmas tree knows that the tree does not do evil or good. In other words it is not a god. And all of us who are Christians know that it is not a god. It is a decoration.
Every year Christians bring this up and of course that is fine. But it seems to me that submitting onself unto Christ and living a life of humility and love is far more important than rather we have a Christmas tree or not.
In fact I would think that I Corinthians 8 would cover this question.
Every year Christians bring this up and of course that is fine. But it seems to me that submitting onself unto Christ and living a life of humility and love is far more important than rather we have a Christmas tree or not.
In fact I would think that I Corinthians 8 would cover this question.
Member
I have just finished taking down all the
Christmas decorations, I made most of mine
this year speak about Christ, the only thing was the tree
and even then I have hung a gold cross and printed on it
'This tree made all the differance' with Jesus name on it.
I had right across our fireplace 'Christ is born' done in white
letters on red and gold ribbon, it was the focal point,
as is with His birth, then had a stable on the fireplace,
with figures depicting His birth.
I am stopping Christmas cards after next year, Godsparing
me to see it,I printed
out a slip to pop into each one, that I will be donating that
cost to charity in 3rd world.
So all in all this year has been the best for me, to let my
decoration speak of Him.
No one could have come in and not see Jesus honoured.
I pray He felt He was too.
I think we have to find ways like this to show His birth, although
we are not told to celebrate it in the Bible, but if we must do it
then we must show it's about Him, and not santa.
I don't think we should be promoting santa at all, I refused to put
out the 2 santa soft toys I have, they stayed locked in the
cupboard, best place for him.
I'm just delighted it's all over, it's just tinsel town, what I'm #
so looking forward to is my husband is coming to Watch Night
service with me, and Testimonies are being given, and it's
over 3 hours and he still wants to go, Praise our Heavenly
Father.
Christmas decorations, I made most of mine
this year speak about Christ, the only thing was the tree
and even then I have hung a gold cross and printed on it
'This tree made all the differance' with Jesus name on it.
I had right across our fireplace 'Christ is born' done in white
letters on red and gold ribbon, it was the focal point,
as is with His birth, then had a stable on the fireplace,
with figures depicting His birth.
I am stopping Christmas cards after next year, Godsparing
me to see it,I printed
out a slip to pop into each one, that I will be donating that
cost to charity in 3rd world.
So all in all this year has been the best for me, to let my
decoration speak of Him.
No one could have come in and not see Jesus honoured.
I pray He felt He was too.
I think we have to find ways like this to show His birth, although
we are not told to celebrate it in the Bible, but if we must do it
then we must show it's about Him, and not santa.
I don't think we should be promoting santa at all, I refused to put
out the 2 santa soft toys I have, they stayed locked in the
cupboard, best place for him.
I'm just delighted it's all over, it's just tinsel town, what I'm #
so looking forward to is my husband is coming to Watch Night
service with me, and Testimonies are being given, and it's
over 3 hours and he still wants to go, Praise our Heavenly
Father.
Member
With all do respect, the issue was not about the Christmas tree being a god we worship. It was about taking part of the pagan tradition (following the world's way of doing things).
We are quick to speak against the things of this world that we shouldn't be a part of like certain movies and the ways of the non-believers, but it's just strange that when it comes to something like Christmas, Valentines, Easter etc., we don't want to admit it's a worldly thing and let go. Do we get to decide what things of the world we want to partake in when it suits us? The Bible doesn't ask us to celebrate Christ's birth because it is not about His birth, it is about His death and ressurection!
And also, nothing is taken away from Christ by bringing this up (even if it is every year). I know we all still submit and love Christ, in fact talking about this is an act of wanting to submit and love Christ because we discuss these things so that we can please Him and do what is right. Discussing things like this is necessary no matter how many times it gets repeated because how else will we grow? One of the reasons we should fellowship is to teach each other and learn from each other.
1 Corinthians 8:9 says: "Be careful, however, that the excercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak." Therefore, should Christians not be teaching new Christians that it is wrong to follow pagan traditions? By agreeing with their ways wouldn't we be telling believers and non-believers alike that we can do what we want as long as we feel okay with it in our own minds? We should be examples to them, and not confuse them. By practicing these things we could also cause them to sin as it says after verse 9.
This is not about debating, if we truly want to follow Christ we should give our thoughts and opinions on the matter so that we can all come to agreement. Personally for me it's not about being right or wrong, it's about knowing the truth no matter what. I want to know the truth, so I appreciate people's opinions, it leads me to pray about something I might not have and study something I wouldn't have bothered with before either.
Member
I mentioned the aspect of the tree being a god because of the scripture that was quoted.
And of course you are right. Nothing is taken from Christ by bringing the subject up.
I think my main thought each year as the subject comes up is that it is the one time of year when the focus is on love and giving and hope. And to me it would be a shame to take that from the world. Of course the worldliness is there for many. But still it is a time when even the world realizes there should be something different. The season points toward something different.
I respect your opinion. After all, in the end, the love of the brethren is what counts. And do ask you to overlook the fact that I did not say well what I was thinking.
God's blessings this precious day.
SG
And of course you are right. Nothing is taken from Christ by bringing the subject up.
I think my main thought each year as the subject comes up is that it is the one time of year when the focus is on love and giving and hope. And to me it would be a shame to take that from the world. Of course the worldliness is there for many. But still it is a time when even the world realizes there should be something different. The season points toward something different.
I respect your opinion. After all, in the end, the love of the brethren is what counts. And do ask you to overlook the fact that I did not say well what I was thinking.
God's blessings this precious day.
SG
Member
Thanx for making it clearer, text is not always easy to understand.
You right about the fact that it should be about love, giving and hope. I just wish it could be like that every day and not letting the world dictate when we should do it. It's society that created Christmas and has turned it into a money making scheme using Jesus as a crutch, same goes with all the other traditions like Easter, it is not passover anymore it is about an easter bunny bringing lots of chocolate easter eggs for children, Valentines day - making spouses feel guilty that they should spend money on each other out of love for each other, Mother's day and Father's day - making kids respect their parents only one day out of the year.
We might think it's good to at least have this one day out of the year and yes it is, but don't you think it is an excuse to not think of it or celebrate it the rest of the year? Just a thought...
Love and blessings
xxx
You right about the fact that it should be about love, giving and hope. I just wish it could be like that every day and not letting the world dictate when we should do it. It's society that created Christmas and has turned it into a money making scheme using Jesus as a crutch, same goes with all the other traditions like Easter, it is not passover anymore it is about an easter bunny bringing lots of chocolate easter eggs for children, Valentines day - making spouses feel guilty that they should spend money on each other out of love for each other, Mother's day and Father's day - making kids respect their parents only one day out of the year.
We might think it's good to at least have this one day out of the year and yes it is, but don't you think it is an excuse to not think of it or celebrate it the rest of the year? Just a thought...
Love and blessings
xxx
Member
I surely do hear you. And agree with what you say about the Easter Bunny and Valentines Day. And I REALLY agree with you about the world dictating when we should send notes and offer gifts of love etc. All of these holidays are truly business dictates for millions. I have always felt the pressure of such times and many times pay no attention to the demands of the world to buy buy buy. I even tire of remembering birthdays! I had much rather give in freedom, when I desire.
So I think we are in agreement more than what it may first appear.
It is just that with Christmas I think the world is in a mood you might say to realize that there is more than what they know. And I do not like to take away symbols of joy, such as the Christmas tree, from Christians. It does not matter what the world is doing. The world is pagan from stem to stern. But it matters what we Christians are doing. And if the tree is a way of bringing joy and beauty and remembering Christ then it is the present day that counts.......I think.......and not the history of its past.
But it seems to me that our agreement is strong. We want to glorify Christ. And I know that Christ receives that!
Blessings..........
So I think we are in agreement more than what it may first appear.
It is just that with Christmas I think the world is in a mood you might say to realize that there is more than what they know. And I do not like to take away symbols of joy, such as the Christmas tree, from Christians. It does not matter what the world is doing. The world is pagan from stem to stern. But it matters what we Christians are doing. And if the tree is a way of bringing joy and beauty and remembering Christ then it is the present day that counts.......I think.......and not the history of its past.
But it seems to me that our agreement is strong. We want to glorify Christ. And I know that Christ receives that!
Blessings..........
Member
this was said in church,
it's not the Christmas Tree we look upon
it's the Tree Christ was crucified on, it's His tree that made all the
differance.
here's another one, now it's nothing to do with Christmas Trees
so please forgive me for going of track.
Faith, what is Faith?
see this bridge made out of tissue paper, well if you were to try
to walk across it, you would be on tip toe, but if you take a
great leap, you will land on the Rock, underneath it, that is
a gaint leap of faith.
I just thought these 2 statements say it all, they strike were they
should, at the heart.
I hate the Christmas trees, they are not in the Bible, we are not
told to celebrate Christs birth, very true,
but we always have done, and to get out of doing so after years,
and years of it, isn't all that easy, and we don't want to look like
the J.W.'s either, as if we disregard all lthese days, Birth, Mothers,
Fathers, Easter, Christmas, aren't we following suit?
God forbid.
it's not the Christmas Tree we look upon
it's the Tree Christ was crucified on, it's His tree that made all the
differance.
here's another one, now it's nothing to do with Christmas Trees
so please forgive me for going of track.
Faith, what is Faith?
see this bridge made out of tissue paper, well if you were to try
to walk across it, you would be on tip toe, but if you take a
great leap, you will land on the Rock, underneath it, that is
a gaint leap of faith.
I just thought these 2 statements say it all, they strike were they
should, at the heart.
I hate the Christmas trees, they are not in the Bible, we are not
told to celebrate Christs birth, very true,
but we always have done, and to get out of doing so after years,
and years of it, isn't all that easy, and we don't want to look like
the J.W.'s either, as if we disregard all lthese days, Birth, Mothers,
Fathers, Easter, Christmas, aren't we following suit?
God forbid.
Member
I don't want to resurrect an old topic when there isn't much more to be said here...but I noticed no one answered Ann's question.
In context, Jeremiah 10:1-16 is talking about the gods the "heathen" or unGodly people were making from wood.
They were carving out statues of wood, covering them with silver and gold, and dressing them in purple and violet.
I don't see how this is referring to Christmas trees.
As for traditions, going to church on Sunday morning is a tradition that Christians have developed which does not stem from the Bible (nowhere does it say "Sunday", we just regard Sunday as the first day of the week). But, whether it is tradition or not, Sunday IS set aside as a special day to worship the Lord. It doesn't mean that's the ONLY day we should worship the Lord, but that it IS a specific day set aside for that purpose.
Likewise, Christmas is a holiday that has been set aside as a special day to remember Christ's birth, which is important because had He not been born He could not have died on the cross. This doesn't mean it should be the ONLY day we remember His birth, nor the ONLY day/time of year we get into the mood of loving and giving gifts to friends and loved ones. It has just been set aside as a particular holiday in remembrance of Christ's birth.
The Christmas tree tradition, I don't see anything wrong with, as long as our intentions are NOT to worship the tree but to worship God.
The reason my family puts a tree up every year is not because it was once a pagan tradition. Neither do we call the days of the weeks Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, or Saturday because they originated from pagans naming the days after their gods and planets (Sun's day, Moon's day, Tiw's day, Wodan's day, Thor's day, Fríge's day, and Saturn's day).
We put up a tree because we want to put up a tree as a decoration in response to Christmas being a holiday about Christ's birth. We decorate with stars, nativities, the words Joy, Peace, Noel, we set out Christmas carol books. Our house is decorated special for Christmas to get in the Christmas mood of remembering Christ's birth.
Thankfully, my parents never pushed the Santa Clause nonsense. Rather, we read the Christmas story and talk about Christ's birth. And the decorations are a reminder of the time of year.
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Active
Its just a decoration...I love Jesus and think He was more probably born around tabernacles, but since we do not know what day and it is not an apostolic tradition (since early Jews thought of birthdays as idolatry) then what matters is to make it about Jesus...not the guy in the red suit who gives you your own way...
Loyal
The verses below are specifically talking about meat sacrificed to pagan gods, but they could just as easily be talking about Christmas trees for pagan gods.
1 Cor 10:25; Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience' sake;
1 Cor 10:26; FOR THE EARTH IS THE LORD'S, AND ALL IT CONTAINS.
1 Cor 10:27; If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience' sake.
1 Cor 10:28; But if anyone says to you, "This is meat sacrificed to idols," do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience' sake;
1 Cor 10:29; I mean not your own conscience, but the other man's; for why is my freedom judged by another's conscience?
1 Cor 10:30; If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks?
1 Cor 10:31; Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
If t bothers you, don't do it. If you're not doing it for any pagan god, do you really think God wouldn't want you to celebrate his son's birth into the world?
1 Cor 10:25; Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience' sake;
1 Cor 10:26; FOR THE EARTH IS THE LORD'S, AND ALL IT CONTAINS.
1 Cor 10:27; If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience' sake.
1 Cor 10:28; But if anyone says to you, "This is meat sacrificed to idols," do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience' sake;
1 Cor 10:29; I mean not your own conscience, but the other man's; for why is my freedom judged by another's conscience?
1 Cor 10:30; If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks?
1 Cor 10:31; Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
If t bothers you, don't do it. If you're not doing it for any pagan god, do you really think God wouldn't want you to celebrate his son's birth into the world?